The Perfect Boat?

[Two Fister]

I'm looking for a boat that can do everything, can anyone tell me what to buy? :laugh: :laugh:

OK back to the question. Before everyone tells me to read old posts and there is no such thing as a boat that does everything, let me narrow the field. I have read every old post back through Archive 2002 labeled Boat Questions, Jet vs prop, sportjet, North River, Alumaweld, Help me pick out a new boat, etc. There was so much good information it really just made me more confused. That and it made my head hurt :sick:

Here's my background fishing info. I live in Bend and fish the high lakes a lot. I have a wife that likes to come along to read, get some sun and occassionally catch more fish than me. I have two sons (4 and 2) who already have several fishing rods apiece and have been known to throw themselves to the floor when I tell them that it's time to head in after 10 hours in the DB.

In addition to the high lakes, I also love to fish the CR around The Dalles, the Klickatat, and the mouth of the Deschutes for salmon and sturgeon. I like fishing Winchester Bay and will cross the bar if it's pretty flat. I have run a sled down river from Macks Canyon as far as Washout and would like to be able to do more of that. I used to live in Anacortes and like to get out into the islands and know where to go up there to catch fish. Like I said, it makes my head hurt. :eek:

There are a couple of things that I know for sure. Given the family situation I want at least a 20 foot boat. I'm figuring it will be something like a 12 degree deadrise or a delta hull for all around use. It also needs to be a windshield boat with a top; it gets pretty cold on the lakes fishing for early season macks and trolling the John Day for thanksgiving steelies.

I thought that I wanted an inboard jet or a sportjet, but I read a lot of posts about weeds and kelp clogging them and fuel usage. Lots of weed issues in the lakes. I would probably only use the jet capability 10% of the time, although that would likely change if I had my own sled.

Then I figured I wanted an outboard with a jack plate and a pump/prop conversion. But after looking into things a bit it seems that the newer motors are much more difficult to change back and forth than the older motors I have worked on before. And the cost for a motor with a pump/prop conversion that's big enough for a 20'+ boat are out of this world.

I don't want to start another North River vs. Willie vs. Alumaweld thread, but any advice from people that have tried to find one boat to fill many needs would be greatly appreciated! :cheers:
TF

[iwanttofish]

Look at my post about stryker or talon boats I have gotten a lot of good fedback. Thanks to all that have replyed to my question. :bowdown:

[SuperPanga]

19 Arima Sea Ranger

[Flatfish]

There is no perfect boat. There are versatile boats.

Alumaweld, Willie, North River, and a dozen other makers make great hulls. A good fisherman can catch boatloads of fish from any of them. Hull design will reflect what percentage of time you spend in shallow and deep water. Most of the big makers offer a choice to match your needs. The steeper the V in a hull, the more it cuts thru rough water. But the steep vees do not do ultra shallow water as well as a 10-12 degree hull will. You decide what you need.

An outboard with a pump and prop( you can do both) is pretty much the most versatile machine going right now. The jet allows shallow water travel. The prop allows you to pick up the bow in rough water. Waterski without breaking the bank in gas. And run thru weeds.

Both Merc and Yamaha make great stuff.

Jets do not like weeds. Stomp grates and rakes only enable easy cleanup. But you still will have to clean up if ya run em thru the vegetable garden. Sometimes, this may require trailering the boat because they are too twisted up indide the pump to just get em out while the boat is in the water.

I have a 22' Alumaweld Super Vee Pro. It is powered by a 250 Yamaha with a prop and a pump. As a matter of fact, I am unbolting the prop tonite, and getting her ready for the shallow waters again.

The hull pounds in the ocean( all sleds will do this to a certain extent. It is the nature of the beast). It does not run as shallow as some other hull designs. But I have never seen a better rig for my needs( about 1/3 ocean, 1/3 big river, and 1/3 shallow river,).

I have run it thru 8" of water. We have been 20 miles out. I have yet to see a more versatile platform to fish from. The key to this versatility is the ability to switch out the jet to a prop.

No sportjet, or inboard will allow you this. Regardless of power plant or pump design.

Some boat makers will try to tell you their hull design makes up for a jet or prop. This is simply wrong.

The cost of the lower unit( for mine at least) is about 2 bills. Not cheap. But the versatility it allows me is unmatched. Some folks will argue I am splitting hairs. Let them say that in ankle deep water. Or on a rough bar.

To convert from pump to prop takes about a couple hours. One guy can do it alone. But a second set of arms is helpful at times( hand me a wrench or cold beverage), but not necessary. The actual work is not brain surgery. I am dumb as a post, and I can do it.

If you have the room to park them, a couple boats( one smaller sled and one glass boat for everything else) might be cheaper than one 20' plus sled.

Hope This Helps.

Mark and the dog.

[pearl]

Heres what I know.....

I sold an 17' Alumaweld Sea Dory that had a 65hp Merc with
a prop and a 8hp troller. This was the second boat I ever owned and it was very versatile. Had the boat 9 years. In somw ways I wish I still had it.

Then I got twofootitis

In 2000 I bought a 19' North River SJ with the idea that I wanted to fish the the lakes and rivers as well as run some rivers with the pump. The boat has been awesome to this point. In 2003 I bought a 16' Clackacraft drifter and find that I'm not running the shallow water in my jet but prefer to drift ( it's therapeutic ). I just don' use the pump enough to justify it.

Now having another acute case of twofootitis

I'm thinking of selling my jet and going back to a boat with a prop. Have not made up my mind whether it will be an open boat or a windshield model but will be an outboard.

Enough about me !

Reading your post it sounds to me you would be happiest with an out board prop. You can fish the big water, lakes etc. It won't be long and your kids are going to want to be towed around Billy Chinook on a tube. Buy a pontoon or a drifter to fish the Deschutes. If your only going to run the shallow rivers 10% of the time it does not make sense to invest in a jet. I have come out of the John Day arm and been darn glad I had a windshield in the past but there are times fishing Odell that an open boat would have been a lot more comfortable.

Sit down with your wife and write a list of all the positives and negatives of the different types of boats your looking at. It will lead you to a final decision

Now the hard part. What manufacture??? All I know is you get what you pay for in most cases and I would purchase a NorthRiver again.

[jetjockey]

If you go with a jet boat here is another thing to decide. Sport jet and outboards are similar beasts, they give you a ton of fishing room in a small boat but lack performance of the inboards. (mostly in reverse, and at slow speeds). An inboard (especially with the hamilton 212) will handle extremely well at slow speeds and the reverse is awesome, but you will loose a lot of room in the boat. Either way, if you go with a SJ or inboard order one with a grate cleanout, it will keep you dry when you plug the grate with weeds (trust me on this one, swimming in a cold a$$ river in December to clean out the grate is not fun). Both my uncles have 20ft North Rivers (one with the SJ and one with a 350 mounted to a Hamilton 212). Both boats work OK in the Ocean (provided its not too rough) and well in the rivers. The full top keeps you nice and dry when its raining or when your taking a few waves over the top of the windshield. Like everyone else on ifish, I would like to have a drift boat, an open 17ft outboard jet, a 22ft inboard jet with windshield, and a 25 ft twin outboard ocean boat. Overall though, I think that the inboard jet (either SJ or V-8) with a windshield and full canvas covers all the basis the best. Just my 2 cents.

JJ

[StinkyH]

FWIW - the V8 will take up more room in a boat than the Merc 175 - can make quite a difference in a 20' boat.

I have the 20' North River Sportster with the 175SJ. There is a good amount of room back there to fish, even with the top up and the backdrop closed up. The V8 would cut into that room quite a bit.

Can stay pretty warm inside with a propane heater when the top and back drop are all zipped up.

Also consider the mariner seats - well worth the $ on the Columbia. Really smoothes out the ride on those wind chopped surfaces. Your better half will thank you as well.

The bench seats are great for storage and it's very nice to spin around and use the bench seat like a lounger. Can also throw a cooler at the end of the bench and lay down completely to catch some Z's.

Anchor nests/rollers are great to keep the front bow organized and also makes it easier to pull up anchor.

Just my 2¢

StinkyH

[Green Machine]

21' TJ Alexis with the raised deck :smile: You do not loose any room due to a dog house, plus tons of storage!!! The V-8 means straight gas, no smoke, a real heater, better ride (as it is heavier to cut through the chop), excellent white water pump, very, very safe for the whole family. That being said, I am still thinking about an outboard again. I find us out in the salt 75% of the time, so it's a tough call. I agree, three boats are the answer. :jester:

Green Machine

[El-Kabong]

as if there was really a question (http://www.seasportboats.com/27pilot.html)

[Starfish]

I'll just throw in one pitch for an outboard prop "walleye boat" layout. True, it doesn't do the super shallow water like a jet, so you would need a drifter or a buddy with a jet for the Deschutes. But for all-around versatility and comfort it's hard to beat. The best part is storage... cubbyholes and lockers everywhere. My latest boat is a 21' Tundra W/T, welded aluminum but shaped like a fiberglass boat. It stores six 9' rods fully assembled in a lockable bow compartment, plus another dozen rods in a side locker. Eight other lockable compartments for storage, counting the battery locker under the floor and the rear battery and fuel lockers. Built-in 50-gallon main and 7-gallon kicker tanks. It's great for kids because there's plenty of room to walk around, it's comfortable, and plenty of freeboard. You can put all your tackle out of the way so there's nothing to trip over during a fire drill. The livewell is 63" long, big enough to either bleed or resuscitate any fish you can legally keep. And it handles rough water better than any sled I've ever seen.

Not trying to sell folks on a particular boat, but after fishing in outboard and inboard jets and other layouts, two of my three boats have been "walleye" style and I love the design. There are lots of good choices out there, just try a few before you buy.

Good luck!

[Two Fister]

Thanks for all of the great replys. I figure it's going to take some time to make the decision so the combined experience of the ifishers will really be a huge asset.

Flatfish, is the pump for your Yamaha an aftermarket product or is it actually made by Yamaha? I've looked at their website before and couldn't find anything about it. The engine that I've changed the lower unit back and forth on was a Yamaha, but it was about 15 years ago. They must not have changed it too much as it took about 2 hours back then and I have the mechanical apitude of my chocolate lab. Ok, she may have more skill than me... :eek:

Pearl, I think you're right I probably am leaning towards an outboard. I have a lot of time under my belt working with them. I like all of the space inside of the boat they provide and I think they are very responsive. Then again, I've never driven an inboard jet or a sportjet. None of the dealers in Bend are very user friendly and a test drive is pretty much out of the question. I do have a 16 foot wide bottom Koffler drifter that I've floated from just below Pelton to the mouth (minus Shears Falls thank you)many times. I have an old 9.9 Chrysler outboard that starts on the first pull to this day for lake trips, but after a few too many trips in the blazing sun or out in the cold rain and snow I'm ready for a windshield and a top. :rolleyes:

Does anyone know why nobody uses the Yamaha version of the sportjet in their river boats? I keep seeing the Yamaha 300+ HP twin jet configurations in splash and giggle boats, so why not a river runner?

Jetjockey, I agree that everyone needs multiple boats. I would add a Hatteras 42'powered by twin diesels with a 17' tender on top to the list. It would be reserved for motoring up the Sunshine coast in summer and down to Honduras in the winter. Hey, if your going to dream why not go big? :cheers:

StinkyH and Jetjockey, do you find the sportjets hard to start in cold weather? I've read that question before and it seems to be no different than an outboard. What do you think? I think the doghouse for an inboard jet takes up too much space in a 20 foot boat. I think too much more than 20 feet is going to be a bit cumbersome up in the lakes. What do you think?

Thanks again for all of the replys!! And thanks to Jeannie for making all this possible!! :bowdown::cheers: :bowdown:

[Lepper]

my boat i'm selling in the classifieds will do all you have mentioned and I have taken it tuna fishing as well!

19ft Alumaweld stryker check it out... or email me for questions..

http://www.ifish.net/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=625168&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

dave

[StinkyH]

StinkyH and Jetjockey, do you find the sportjets hard to start in cold weather? I've read that question before and it seems to be no different than an outboard. What do you think? I think the doghouse for an inboard jet takes up too much space in a 20 foot boat. I think too much more than 20 feet is going to be a bit cumbersome up in the lakes. What do you think?



Cold start - I've not had many problems. You have to figure out how much 'priming' works for your engine. I turn my key 5 times back and forth(each time squirts gas into the engine) then hold it in for 10 seconds(not sure what this does). It fires up - then usually dies after 15 seconds. I give it three more 'squirts' and hold it in for 5 seconds and it fires up and stay running. I'm not sure what pressing the key in does or how the squirt of gas works - Get Bent Tackle told me about that. I checked the Mercury 175 manual and it doesn't say anything about that switch function. :shrug: Either way though - the above works for me every time. They do have a bit more smoke too when cold starting but once it warms up it stops. The engine adds more oil to the mixture when it's cold to aid startup. Least that's how I remember it. Jettin'Fool could prolly shed some light.

Dog house - have you checked out the footprint of the 175? It's about 1/2 of the V8's. Nice to sit on too when you're running the kicker. :smile:

Not sure what to say about lake fishing with a 20 footer vs say a 23 footer. I do know that people say - if you can go a few feet more - by all means do it. Given the time and money you're putting into this - the extra room pays off. I was going to go with the 19' Sportster but found out the 20' would fit into my garage so I went that route. :-) The swing tounge trailer makes that possible.

StinkyH

[Lepper]

when you push that key in most likely you are activating the choke..

d

[jimh]

Every boat is a compromise, of course. I think it is hard to beat an inboard jet with a full top with trim tabs. It doesn't have to be a hard top, but it should have full curtains. Heat is available when it is really cold.

Unless you are trying to go through weeds a lot, I think you'll be ok with a jet. Idling with the jet sucks the weeds. If you troll with your kicker, I don't think you'll have that much of a problem.

I've had mine in low water in a river and out in PS taking water over the bow. I've pulled 3 tubes at once with 4 people in the boat. I have fished Puget Sound and Rivers with 1100 lbs of people. When it gets a little rough, I hit the trim tabs a little.

[Flatfish]

I do not think any of the motor makers actually manufacture their own jets. Pretty sure of it( except for the Merc SJ).

An outfit called "Outboard Jet" in San Laendro CA makes them for everyone.

Switching back and forth is about 8 nuts, a cable( shift cable), a spacer( bay kit), and some extension studs for the spacer. That's pretty much it.

Pretty simple stuff. Just take your time the first time, and it will go pretty fast. After the first time, I think ya can do it in about 1 1/2 hours max.

I know they are spendy. but for what you are asking of a boat( which is about what I ask) there is no equal.

Hope this helps.

Mark and the 17mm dog.

[fuzzy]

"I do not think any of the motor makers actually manufacture their own jets. Pretty sure of it( except for the Merc SJ).

An outfit called "Outboard Jet" in San Laendro CA makes them for everyone. "



specialty manufacturing has a subdivision known as outboard jet that makes outboard pumps for all manufacturers based in san leandro calif
as per patent # 3 082 732 or something similar they will be the ones suppliying (sp?) jet conversions for outboards

american turbine and hamilton for inboard jets?

and a new to me turbo jet outboard conversion being marketed via ebay

any other vendors out there?
seems to be a specialized market for sure

[fishinbuddy007]

funny, i've never seen any guides fishin with a big inboard.. my sj has more power than i'll ever use. a little noisy at certain rpm's though. i run a super vee (allumaweld), but north river's "scout" is very similur.
(and just a bit better looking i think) well, good luck on your boat hunt. also, i bought my super vee at an autcion, for 5500 bucks!!!!! so somtimes the right deal makes the decision for you. once again, best of luck. :smile:

[fishinbuddy007]

p.s. you can pm me if you want. i'll give you the web adress of the action. just maybe your dream boat is sitting there right now............

[WaterDog]

I'm with Green Machine, the raised deck solves the space issue and gives you tons of storage. You can also get heat/defrost with an inboard, something you'll appreciate if you use your boat all year long. The manuverability of a jet is sweet and I'll probably never go back to prop again.

I've owned an OB, a sportjet, and now an inboard. The inboard jet boat is the most verstile boat you can have. It'll do everything from trout to halibut.

Good luck :cheers:

[Two Fister]

Do any of the folks with sportjets run them up from the mouth of the Deschutes? Most of the boats I see heading up river seem to either have big outboards or inboard jets. Then again, I'm usually struggling upstream on my mt. bike in the blazing sun so I may be a bit delirious. They could be running a sternwheeler for all I can tell. :eek:

Has anybody with a 175 sportjet gone from lower elevations (Bouy 10, CR, Willamette) up to the high lakes? I was wondering if it would be better to go with a fuel injected engine to avoid problems with altitude? I have not had great luck with Merc before and some of the stuff I read about the Optimax power head makes me very wary.

JimH, how does the jet do in the open water. I was out about 5 miles out of Winchester Bay over Labor Day in a prop boat, but we were traveling with a big inboard jet. As the swells picked up I noticed his jet was kicking up a pretty good rooster tail at he was coming through the trough of the swells. My thought was that would make the steering pretty sloppy. How does your boat feel in conditions like that?

Flatfish and/or Fuzzy, have you had, or do you know anybody, that has had problems with the aftermarket pumps? I think you are probably right that it's the most versatile combination going. That's probably why it's also probably one of the more expensive ones as well. :hoboy: Hey, it's only money, right? I guess I can start off by buying a boat with either a pump or a prop and get the additional lower end later on.

Fishinbuddy007, I sent you a PM for that auction address. I think one of the reasons most guides run outboards is that they usually have a backup motor on a pallet in their shop. If their main breaks down they can swap out motors and still be out guiding. If your inboard goes klank your boat is in the shop with it. Also that doghouse takes up a lot of space that you could fill with people.

[TundraIII]

The perfect boat has never been made and never will be. I have had several boats and they were all good for what they were built to do. Have yet to see a boat that does everything you want it to do regardless of situation or circumstances.

If I had the room and budget...you'd see 6 boats parked in my backyard.

Had a jet....did not like its performance in the ocean. Prop is wayyyy beter...just my .02

[jimh]

fbb07, guides use the right boat for the job they are trying to do. Sometimes it is an inboard jet. Not that it matters, since we aren't talking about the ultimate guide boat. :smile:

Two Fister, without seeing the actual conditions, I'm not sure if I've even been in those conditions. I did get caught in a SCA once in PS, and I've been in rough enough water to make my passenger sea sick in PS for the first time. Handling wasn't the issue in either case. I don't know if that helps.

[Two Fister]

JimH,
Got to love days like that on the sound! I used to have to commute from Anacortes to Cyprus Island every day by small boat no matter the weather. You knew it was going to be bad when the ferries went around Guemes Island instead of coming straight into the ferry terminal. :bigshock: :sick:

Glad to hear the handling of the jet wasn't the challenge on a day like that.
TF

[baguba]

The perfect boat:
all the above mentioned, owned by another person who lets you go with them and/or use at any time. :grin: :grin:

[FROGGY]

I now have a 18' Willie Predator with 115 prop. It will be the perfect boat ( for me ) when I get a pump unit.
I thought there was a link posted before to the place Flatfish talked about. If anyone can find it please post it. I have searched but come up empty :shrug:

[Quicksilver]

I have to get in on this. I have owned a few boats over the years from simple rafts and row boats to drift boats and now a jet. Currently I have a 21' Duckworth Silverline with 351 Ford inboard and AT pump. The boat is all polished aluminum...hense the name Quicksilver. I run it in just about all of the water that you mentioned.

It does well in the ocean but does slap pretty hard when the swell gets above 6' or so. I actually like having the dog house over the inboard since it makes a good work table for rigging and bait. I have the kicker mounted on the swim deck and usually sit on the doghouse when we are trolling. I don't see having a doghouse with the inboard as a negative. I also like having the V-8 since I have been working on various V-8s since before I learned to drive. If it acts up it is easy to get to and I can generally fix it...I must add that it has never failed to start and go like a demon to date. I do carry spare plugs, wires, belts, etc at all times. Dual batteries are a good idea, also.

My 2 kids think that it is a waterski boat that dad takes fishing. It does have a tower and that makes a huge difference for waterskiing and wakeboarding. It could be used to mount radar and or rod holders as well.

I haul it over the mountain and fish the high lakes with it and have never had a problem with the elevation change. It runs like a champ regardless. I must say that it is a load to haul. I pull it with a F350 diesel after going through a transmission on a lighter truck. You might think about that when you are buying.

I concur with the comments about having a cover to get under and a heater when the weather turns or water is breaking over the bow. (I also throw a porta-potti in for my wife and daughter when we go out on the ocean) I very rarely take the top down since it is nice to have some shade when the sun is high....the front of the top can be folded back on the Duckworth and the top works like a bimini. I run that way 90 percent of the time unless it is really raining or rough water.

I also concur with the comments about suspension seats. The are a must if you are running a shallow v bottomed boat in rough water. This helps keep your fillings in your teeth where they belong.

Two Fister, good luck with your search and report back on what you find.

Quicksilver

[rola76]

I think JimH hit it right...there's probably a compromise in any boat you go with. I've got an inboard jet, heaters/defrosters, remote steering for kicker, etc. etc. At times this seems like the perfect boat for me, but then my fishing situation and water changes, then I wish I had something different.

The question is, what boat would suit your "typical" fishing situation best? Consider the water you fish, the weather you fish in, the amount of company you usually have, and the of course the amount of $$$ you want to spend. Open style, such as a Willie Raptor or Alumaweld Super Vee, or a basic inboard jet such as my Weldcraft, a raised deck/hardtop?????

Great times deciding what to get, but at some point or another you'll have to prioritize and just get one :dance: :dance:

Good luck dude :grin:

[lorchs]

The perfedt boat!
Isnt that the next boat you get?
If your like me you will always be looking.

[Flatfish]

Two fister,

look at folks who fish the ocean for money. Not a guide. But trollers, netters, dories, etc. 99.9% of them run a prop.

Now, some may argue fuel efficeincy as the primary reason for this. But they are wrong. If a jet would allow a professional fisherman to catch more fish. or stay out in rougher weather, they would run them. At least some of them would.

I have seen a couple engineering ideas tried on big water boats. 3 jets sticking out the back of a 40x14 aluminum rig. Even with a diesel powerplant, they just do not figure in the real world.

Jets work best at high speed. High speed bar crossings are not always the best idea. They will work most of the time in the ocean. But they will have to come back sooner. Jets do not pick up the bow quickly. Especially in rough water( when you need it most).

You can play russian roulette too, and be ok 5 out of 6 times.

If anyone wants to argue that their boat with a jet is a better ocean machine than it would be with a prop.... well, this is the USA where everyone is allowed to voice an opinion..... :idea:

I would not set out looking for a boat that had both. Too rare an animal. Mostly guides' rigs. You are on the right track looking for a hull/motor combo that will work and doing the switch later. just make sure the hull is pump friendly and the motor has enough hp to run the boat with a jet. On a 20'er a 150 is about minimum.

I agree that outboards are terrible expensive for what you are buying. :depressed: Still better than bowling on the weekends IMHO.

Good Luck.

Mark and the dog.

[StinkyH]

Also consider that an inboard jet will dictate how many degrees of dead rise your hull can have with the intake needing a flat surface on the bottom of the the back of the boat.

StinkyH

[timinthegorge]

Two Fister.... The way you described your needs for this boat made me think about the process I went through with my current boat.

I fish the higher lakes. (Bumping, Riffe, Baker, and Swift Creek (this summer)).

I fish rivers too.... the mid-columbia mostly. And I like to boat/camp/fish as well. That requires alot of competing features in a boat. Let me give your request a try....

You need a boat with a windshield and full canvas (family), a prop motor (for room while fishin', and effiency), a quality kicker, plenty of storage, at Least a 14 deadrise (more if you want to go in the salt), plenty of gunwale when loaded, and totally trailerable.

If you're buying new, and you know what you want, there's very few ways to go wrong. Imho, all the NW boat builders are making quality products. I'm no expert, but I did alot of homework before I bought mine a couple of years ago. I'm very happy with it, because it fits my needs.

Alumaweld, North River, Willies, Hewes, Thunderjet, (and many others) are All building great boats.

You've asked a question that only YOU can answer... with any authority. Best of luck with finding "the one"..... :wave:

[Two Fister]

Thanks to everyone for all of the replys. It's great to see all of the different opinions and reasoning. It's been my experience that whey you try to force too many things out of a tool, vehicle, boat, etc. you usually end up with something that isn't particularily good at anything. You also usually have to special order something that costs more, but it doesn't hold any value as it's applications are so diluted.

Ouch, my head hurts worse than before. :eek: No wait, that's just the gin! :cheers:

[Zodiac-Fisherman]

Have you thought about a Saltwater Fiberglass boat? Deep V style. They have amazing handling. Why dont you take a peak at Striper, Parker, Arima and Trophy. If i recall correctly you can get a 25Ft Parker with a Walk in Pilot House, a 250hp Yamaha Outboard for the price of a 330i BMW. (40k). In my humble opinion its alot of boat for your buck.

Otherwise, i am not a huge fan of Jetboat, How often are you going to take your boat up the Clackamas, Sandy, or Deschutes? They are a mess to handle at low speeds, the theory is, no power no steering. I am not trying to start a rash arguement here with all the jetboat owners on the forum.

Best of luck in finding your perfect boat.

Dylan

[Flatfish]

Zodiac,

the boat you mention is a great open water rig. Better than any sled will ever be.

But if you think a jet is tough to manuver at slow speeds, have you ever tried running a big ocean boat thru the still standing forest of trees at Crane Prarie? That would be a nightmare. What about runnint it thru 3 feet of water to get at some of them bass in CP? No problem with a sled.

Two Fister,

You are right when you say that one do it all boat will never be best at any one thing. If you are willing to forget either the ocean or the Deschutes, the answer will be cheaper and easier. But those two are at extreme ends of the spectrum. And if you insist on a boat that will do it all, then you are on the right track.

I have a lab. He is a pretty good duck dog. He is not very good on quail, chuckers, phesants, or any other uplands. But he will put birds in the bag for me. He is ok on geese too.

Now I could get an English pointer for the quail. A springer for grouse, a setter for phesants, and a Chesapeake for ducks and have several individual dogs who are better at their own specialty than my lab could be. But I do not have room for 6 hunting dogs.

So I got a lab.

And I have a big open sled with a pump and prop.

I have not found a better tool for any of the jobs I ask it to do. Versatility is not free. But at least you CAN do it all.

Good Luck.

Tell us what you end up with.

Mark and the dog.

[jimh]

Zodiac, a 25ft Parker Marine Pilot House sure would be a sweet boat, but for 50K for a used one on boattraderonline, it should be. :smile:

[Two Fister]

ZF, if I bring home a boat that costs as much as a BMW, I had better buy my wife a BMW or I will be sleeping in the pilot house. :smash: :smash: Besides, I'm too far inland to get a boat that is so ocean/bay/sound focused. I need something that is more of an all around boat. Believe me, I'd love to have one!

Flatfish, good dog analogy. My lab isn't good at anything other than dropping really slimy tennis balls on my pants when I'm late for a meeting. Lucky for her she's a sweetheart.

I'm definitely leaning towards a outboard pump/prop setup. They have pretty much what I'm looking for (21 NR Mariner with a merc 225 with a pump, but no prop) at a dealer in the South Seattle area, but when I stopped in while on a business trip I bumped around in their used boat lot for a hour and then in the shop for another hour trying to get someone to help me. Nobody even asked if I needed anything. :depressed: It's pretty much brand new, but they have it priced like it is more than brand new. I spoke with the NR rep when he was in Bend and he gave me a better price for a new boat with more bells and whistles than the WA dealer was asking for a used boat. :eek:

After all the great info and disucssions, I think I've narrowed it down to what I want. I'm hoping to find something a bit older to keep the costs down. Ideally, I want a 21 foot outboard with a pump/prop in the 225 hp range. I have a old 9.9 kicker that starts on the first pull, that would do for awhile. Unfortunately, it is a smokey, greasy sucker that doesn't like to idle down for long without stalling. A 12 degree deadrise won't be great at either rivers or windchop, but I figure it's a good compromise. A high transom is a must, but I don't want a big splash well; might as well have an inboard for as much room as they take up. A 6 foot bottom is also a must. All the usual electronics, downriggers, and DB Coopers suitcase to pay for it all would also be great. :yay:

Not to start a new thread, but what other things do you think are a must?

So anybody know of a little old lady that only drove her boat to church on Sundays? :cheers:

Thanks again to everyone!
TF

[boaten]

Oh, the perfect boat, one of life's bigest questions that will probable never be answered (or at least agreed on with an concensus). I would look real carefully at the Arima, other than running it up the small rivers it has a pretty broad appeal. Looking at some of the recent posts you can pick up a used one and still have some money for a down payment on a BMW.

[Zodiac-Fisherman]

Jimh,

I just looked at Boattrader.com, Yes there are some Parkers in the 50k range. I just saw an ad for a 98 Pilot House with a spankin brand new 2004 Yamaha 300hp(only 40 hours), a 9.9 yamaha kicker, Radar, EPRIB(Liferaft), and Outriggers. all for 42k. Also saw some used Parkers that started at 25k and worked their way up to 50k. Let me ask you this... How much is a new Grady White, Mako, or Pursuit gonna set you back.? Almost 2x of what a brand new parker would set you back..

The reason i like parker's is that my uncle who is a guide out in Long Island,NY runs a 25ft Pilot house with a 250 Yamaha, but he recently just repowered the boat a few days ago, i gotta see what he replaced it with. The only complaint that i have with parker's is their lack of adequate seating. There are 4 Seats in the Pilot house, and a bed in the cabin. Everyone else needs to sit on chairs on the deck.
two fister
I know this is kind of off topic since your not really in the market for a Salty boat. But its all good. You will find that dream boat, no worries.... :jester:


Dylan

[Two Fister]

ZF,
If I had my way there would be a Parker, Grady White, or a Mako in my gigantic boat shed. Better yet, it would on my boat house trolly at the house in Tofino. And there'd be one on the lift at Fishers Island as well rigged for stripers, blues, and Fat Alberts.
TF

[jimh]

ZF, used opens up a lot more possibilities for sure.

[backlash442]

Those 12 degree NR Mariner boats will beat the snot out of you (literally) in any kind of chop or rough water. Test drove one and was not impressed at all. Talked to an owner and he said it was great when it was glassy but when the wind kicked up it really beat you up. Later that day the wind was blowing 25+ and I didn't envy the guy. They are good river hulls but not deep/big water.

On the other had the NR Seahawk is a very impressive boat for any kind of chop etc that a lake or river will toss at you. Haven't been out on the ocean yet so can't comment. However, the boat does seem to handle extremely well. I've been out when the wind was blowing at least 20mph with the lake running easy 2' chop and the boat handled great. Coming from a saltwater background I've been really impressed. Unfortunately for you the draft might be too deep for running in shallow water.

With NR the hulls seem to be all or nothing. Maybe take a look at the Duckworth Advantage. They have a 18 degree hull so might have a happy medium. That was going to be my next test ride until I drove the Seahawk. I like it a lot but don't think it's the "perfect" boat but so far it works well for me and the family. Good luck.

[Two Fister]

Backlash442,
Doesn't the Seahawk have an 18 degree hull like the Duckworth? Did you test drive any of the variable or delta pad hulls? They seem like they would be the best of both worlds; steep bow angle to cut through chop, but a shallow draft pad in back when your running shallow rivers. Given the way I fish I'm not as worried about the shallow drifting draft, but the running draft.
TF

[backlash442]

T.F. no the Seahawk doesn't have a 18 degree hull. It's around 26-28 depending on the length then comes down to around 12 at the stern. If I remember correctly. The Advantage is a straight 18 degree all the way. Think that's why you have to go with the 72" bottom because it will rock/tilt more. The Seahawk is very stable btw.

I test drove a Weldcraft Maverick which has a variable hull and is very sharp at the bow. Thing was a pig. Like driving an old car w/no power steering. Constantly listed to one side or the other depending on where the weight was distributed. Rocked a lot at rest too. This boat didn't have the offshore bracket and was told it will make a huge difference in handling. However, the Seahawk I test rode didn't have one either and it was head and shoulders better than the Maverick. A real eye opener.

Of course this is just one persons opinion and I had to try and seperate my saltwater boating from freshwater and get used to how the boats handled the water differently. I think I tried to compare what I had to what I was getting which was really a no no. I think it still influenced me in the final decision though.

[Two Fister]

I haven't heard too many great things about the Weldcrafts. I have a friend that has one and he has been really disappointed in both the performance and quality. It's only one person, but I trust his boating knowledge.

It's interesting that it would be so unstable with the variable keel. I guess it makes sense in some respects.

I think if I had the room at my house I would buy a 7 degree tiller sled and a pure ocean/Columbia River/Puget Sound boat. Then when it was nice up on the lakes we could take the sled, but we could still bring the enclosed boat for nasty weather fishing. Unfortunately, the chance of convincing my wife that we need to sell our house so that I can have more space for boats is probably pretty slim. :eek:

That's why I'm looking at the 12 degree boats. I know that I'll be spending more time and money having my fillings put back in, but I need one boat to do everything, even if it's not great at any one thing.

[Dan D]

Almost every boat built has its pros and cons. In defense of the Weldcraft, it may not be set up properly. I am a Weldcraft dealer and I can tell you from experience that this boat is one of the finest riding Welded boats on the market today. HOWEVER, due to its aggressive reverse chine at the transom, it needs hydraulic steering and more horsepower than a boat of similar size. The transom has so much lift that it forces the bow down harder. The offshore bracket also helps this boat tremendously. They are also building both the 18 1/2 and 20ft models this year with a wider 7ft bottom.

As far as the Northriver is concerned, there craftsmanship and design is hard to beat. They set the industry standard in many areas.

I have driven many boats and fished for several different species of fish. That being said, the best boat is the one that fits your needs the best. My top criteria in a new boat includes a wide beam (and a wide bottom to go along with it), and the maximum vee that you can get away with. Ride in as many boats as you can before you buy, stick with a reputable dealer, and you can't go wrong.

- Dan
:cheers: