Releasing Canarys or Yelloweyes

[Threemuch]

Guys-
This weekend at the ranch and the rockpile I saw a lot of red floaters, and wanted to give a tip that may be worthwhile.

When you catch a red one, instead of deflating or leaving it floating, Take a spectra rig with a small hook and a big weight and hook it through the soft skin on the underside edge of the gill plate. Send em back down to the bottom or at least until they come back to life and pull off the hook. If you hit bottom, then give a quick snap with the rod and the fish is released.

If you do this, you have released them at a depth they may survive at, and even if they don't they will feed the benthic ecosystem, not the avian one (fish and crabs get to eat em, not birds).

I think this is preferable to the hypodermic method, which gives a great path for infection of the fish and a good chance that you will stab yourself in the hand. YOu may still have to do the hypo thing on a big fish, since a 15 pound yelloweye has more floatation than 4 pounds of lead can overcome. Don't ask me how I know this.

If we don't do something, we won't be allowed to fish productive halibut spots for long. Send em back down. At least that way we don't get shut down because of the 100s of floaters out there.

Can we sticky this to the top for a couple weeks?

[Pilar]

Thanks Kurt. I was wondering about that Frankenator gizmo the guys on the Coastside website developed. Does anyone know anything about that? From what I hear it is some kind of milk crate with a door on it.

A sort of elevator for fish. Fish goes into the box and back to the bottom where it is released.

I will give your tech a try, Kurt.

[skein]

Okay, we'll stick this one to the top also. If anyone has any tips to add, by all means do.

Skein

[Keta]

In Alaska we tried to stay away from rocky drop offs when halibut CATCHING. Doing this would eliminate our orange fish bycatch. It's hard to keep from catching them when ling fishing.

[fin seeker]

With the closer in fish, say less than 200 feet all they need to do is get down around 40-50ft and they should be able to swim back to the bottom on their own. For fish out of 500 or so I would think that getting them down to 100 feet is more than adequate and would save you some excercise. Those release cages like what Pilar is talking about are nice, but I don't know too many guys that have them on board yet. ODFW uses some when they are tagging black rockfish that would work well, basically just perforated pvc with a door at one end,40ft of rope tied off to the transom, and a few lbs of lead to get it down. Works like a charm. Also, if the hypodermic thing is all you can do it is an acceptable alternative/addition. Personally I prefer repressurizing the fish but either one is better than lettin' 'em float.

My 2 cents, I hate seein' the floaters.

[aye fsh]

How about using one of those spring loaded weight release gizmos? Has like a pin encased in a housing with a slot for line to go through. Could hook 'em by the lip on a short lead to the release. A cheap hook would rust out and might be able to avoid the $6 lead donation.

[Keta]

We tried to bring them up slow and do a decompresson stop but that didn't help.

[CAPT KUJO]

I used the Florida State Method and had 6 of 8 swim down out of sight. I got the info from a prior post using a needle to punchure the swim bladder.

CAPT KUJO

[Threemuch]

I am pretty much through with the needle method if I can avoid it, because a well timed swell and you will stick yourself. Don't ask how I know this.

[Orca]

Hook your line/swivel to the barrel swivel on the left, put hook on Floater as Threemuch suggests above, and lower away. When you hit bottom, give a jerk and "fish off." The hook in this photo has a nub where the barb was, but barb has been removed.

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/medium/783Floaters2.JPG

[Bait O' Eggs]

I like the idea of sending them down without any holes in their body. :bowdown:

I wonder if I could use a milk crate type device upside down, with weights on the open end. Set the crate over the fish with the fish floating to the top of the crate on the inside. Put it on a 100 foot rope. Send it down 100 feet and when you pull the crate back up the fish leaves the crate at an elevation of -100 feet.

The rope would be easier to pull than cranking on a reel. :eek:

I am afraid when the eyes crystalize and puff out of the head nothing will keep them out of the food end of the food chain.

I would think if it didnt work the fish would float to the top again in a few minutes telling you, we need to try something else.

[NorthRiverRick]

Thanks for all the suggestions to help with this disturbing problem. :whazzup:

Orca, Thanks for the pic, I'll be making one of those before my next trip, I've gotta try something. :shrug:

Rick

[skein]

I really like the idea (on another thread) of tagging them prior to release. Then if we start catching tagged fish we can record it, maybe photograph it, and send it back down.

Of course if we catch a tagged fish we'll have to pull up the lines, race for town, and buy a lottery ticket. :grin:

Skein

[Keta]

Where can we get tags? If they are numbered and we keep track of where we taged the fish it could help the ODF&W track the resource. Good idea!

[SKSPAWNER]

after much frustration over the whole thing, I am going to build one of the release cages out of an old Danielson crab trap that I have. i think that I can rig it to release with a manual pull on the tag line. Can't wait to try it. It would be putting old equipment to good use if it works.


Sunny :idea: :idea: :idea:

[fin seeker]

SKS,

Can't wait to hear how that works out. I definitely could find something in the "old" pile that would work so be sure and report back how it works.

It's good to see the concern over this, maybe we can start seeing less floaters out there.

[avid]

Cable Modem users can view an Apple Quick time video of rockfish swimming away from an "elevator." It lasts about 5 minutes and is a 14mb download. The video was made by a member of the Coastsiders fishing club and a poster from another fishing site gave me the link. One Canary rockfish with bulging eyes even manages to swim away.

http://www.sheltonproducts.com/Frankonator.mov

David

[Snakebite]

THANK YOU! All the charter boats, at least, should be required to this. Most would probably be agreeable to it. Even if it doesn't lower the mortality rate, you don't have to agonize while it floats away.

[Threemuch]

Come on guys, I saw more red floaters this last weekend! Send em back down!

If we don't they will shut down deep water fishing, I guarantee it.

[Mr. Fisherman]

We had very good success venting the fish with a large needle. Give it a try, and Special Thsnks to Puffin for giving me a big needle, you're the greatest man! :cheers:

[avid]

Guys,

Watch the video it will change your technique. There are concerns with using needles due to infection. The elavator seems like such an easy way. Throw a milk crate over them and run them to 40' and forget it. No worries about poking yourself or hitting the right spot.

David

[Threemuch]

40' won't cut it if they are coming up from 200+, more like 100 or 150. But it is a better method, or a barbless release rod. I agree that any kind of puncture wound into the gut is an invitation for death for an ocean critter.

Just don't leave em floating.

[edsr]

I have been in contact with the biologists in Florida and they are sending me several more of the needles that they are using. I was hoping they would have a video so that we could show it at a T/A meeting but so far I haven't hit pay dirt. The needle is simply a large hypodermic needle without the plunger and the printed instructions are relatively straight forward and clear. They did mention that a bleach bath after each fish is good policy to reduce contamination or infection.

Their instructions were essentially what BOE and I were doing on NorRiver Dave's new boat two weeks ago. As Roy mentioned we think that we did have some success in releasing some of the fish but not all. Roy was thinking ahead and brought with him one of the needles from a herring oil injection bottle.

One interesting thing was that a canary to which a lingcod had attached itself to swam right back down when we released it, the lingcod wasn't so lucky. I wondered in the pressure of the lingcod's mouth kept the canary from experiencing the bends?

I was really impressed with the speed of the response and the apparent concern for the fish by the folks from Florida.
edsr

[Nalu]

The 40' very well may be appropriate release for the fish, but 66' would be even better.

Keep in mind that it is not the total depth that we're trying to deal with, but the pressure change. This is one of the base concepts in SCUBA diving with regard to decompression sickness (the bends), and is the same concept here.

Every 33 feet is one atmosphere, and the pressure doubles. At a depth of 33 feet (2 atmoshpheres absolute), the pressure is DOUBLED from that at the surface. Another way of looking at it is that from the surface to 33 feet, the air volume in the air bladder will be reduced by HALF. From 33 to 66 feet the air volume will be reduced in half again. So, at a depth of 66 feet (3 atmoshpheres absolute), the air that was expanded at the surface (1 atmoshpere absolute) will be roughly 1/4 of the volume it was before.

Fish should be able to handle this pressure change. We could probably bring a fish up from 200 feet to 66 feet and the fish would be just fine. It is the last 66 feet that really makes the impact, regardless of starting depth, and the last 33 feet what probably gets them.

To put this in perspective lets use a starting volume of 1 cubic inch at 264 feet. As we raise to a depth of 66 feet that 1 cubic inch turns into 48 cubic inches. Significant, but not drastic when we're really talking about very small starting volumes. That same 1 cubic inch will be 192 cubic inches at the surface.

Didn't mean to ramble..

[Snakebite]

We tried to bring them up slow and do a decompresson stop but that didn't help.



We worked extensively with that possibility, and it is obvious that they cannot dump expanding gasses out of their system with the method by which they do that very quickly through the blood stream and out the gills. The gasses have to pass through a vascular membrane called the rete mirable in the gas bladder. Apparently it takes a very long time. In our work tagging black rockfish, it appears that most, if not all fish with an extended gut in the mouth have a blown swim bladder. The good news is that it appears that fish that survive and can get back down, with help or not, survive the trauma fairly well, and the swim bladder heals. We developed a "cage" attached to a rope that has weights on it, and a door, with a cupboard latch that when the rope is jerked on, opens and releases the fish about 30 feet down, We put obviously bouyant fish in the cage when we release them after tagging them. It works very well when it operates correctly. However, we are catching these fish in less than 100 feet of depth. Fish caught in depths greater than that will have more severe symptoms of barotrauma, and a lower survival rate. But anything you can do or try is way better than just whatching them float away. The hypodermic is most likely to have a serious infection problem, and if not done right, can harm other internal organs. Keep trying folks, we'll figure out a way. :cheers:

[DanWolford]

I have noted there are references to a method of release that does not rely on puncture of the fish - specifically a reference to a "Frankonator". Let's see if I can shed some light into what this is.

The Coastside Fishing Club is exerimenting with something we call a Re - Compression Device (RCD - more affectionately called a Frankonator - after the club's president). The RCD is just a weighted inverted milk crate - no bottom. It is placed over a floating, decompressed fish and lowered to the desired depth to accomplish the recompression, allowing the fish to recover and swim away. We have preliminary video that shows recovery of the fish.

Our experimentation is being conducted under a California issued Scientific Collecting Permit. It involves two phases, one addressing the effectiveness of the RCD when used at various fishing and recompression depths (and times), and secondly addressing the long term health of recompressed fish. We are working with OSU on the development of the experiment, and for scientific and technical assistance.

Hope this is useful, we think the technique has merit, and encourage its use. It is simple and easy to use, avoids the issues of infections with needles, and minimizes handling damage.

Dan Wolford, Chief Scientist, Coastside Fishing Club.

[Mark Mc]

Hey Dan, nice to see you wander over here! Sorry I missed you last time you were in Corvallis. Any plans to come this way? Let me know; it will be good to meet you in person.
- Mark McCulloch

[DanWolford]

I should be in Oregon several times this summer. I'll let you know if I head down to Corvallis.

[corrirod]

I like the concept of the "Frankonator" but I have my doubts as to its effectiveness on Oregon coastal waters. With the drift, swell, and chop, I think you will have trouble lowering it without it tipping or dragging behind the boat. Also, if you add more weight to it you will need a pro wrestler onboard to haul it back up. :shrug:

[Superfish]

corrirod, we have the same drift, swells etc as you have in OR. afterall OR is just an extension of CA to the north. the drift of the Frankonator is the same as the boat. So far, it has been tested to 50'. This is only the beginning of this mini project. In the end it may or not be determined to be successful. it's just one of the alternatives that we have to try and see. all critiques and advises are welcome.

[corrirod]

Thanks Superfish, I truly hope it works and if it does I'll be one of the first in line to get/make one. Not having seen one and just going off the description those were just my initial feelings but I hope I'm wrong! :flowered:

If this turns out to work and the fish are truly surviving the decent, then perhaps I could rig one to my outrigger ball when I'm commercial fishing. I've only caught one so far salmon fishing but it would be good when I'm trying for lings. I'm sure the commercial guys catch a bunch of them and it would sure be nice if they could send them all back down at once. Good luck and keep us posted!

[DanWolford]

For the most part, just lowering the weighted milk crate is sufficient to overcome the effects of swells and currents, but for us experimentors, we need to keep the fish, at depth, in the RCD while we photograph it (to document that it recovered or not) - that takes awhile, so I have developed several versions that we will be trying in the next week or so.

[Abalone]

I read most of these threads a few days ago and wanted to add my .02 cents.

I saw a few Red fish floating at the Pile this weekend when I was with Kujo and thought what a shame.
I am almost certain that breaking the Air Bladder will allow the fish to survive. I have seen both sides of the
arguement. My biggest case for argueing that it works is this;
Back in my spear fishing days it was common to see Lings with healed spear marks on them. To Kill a ling you
have to hit him square in the gills or hit the brain to stun it, then you must grab the gill plate and pull the gills
before the ling wakes up and swims away. I have had Lings up to fifteen pounds get away because I didn't
dispatch it quick enough. In areas where divers fish a lot, it is common to see one or two big lings with healed
scares in the Gill area or in the middle of their belly. I am talking about big holes or maybe three distinct
scares from a Hawian Sling. These ocean fish are tough. I have heard it said that the bacteria will get into
a Redsnapper and kill it before it heals. And in Canada at Quatsino sound the locals tell me that they have
done studies and determined they don't survive. I don't believe this.
Regardless: It is far better to bleed the bladder and give it a chance to survive then to just toss it over where
it is Certain to die. I wish ODFW would put notices up at the docks telling people to do this.

A few years ago ODFW did a tagging system on the Oregon coast where they took Charter boats out with
volunteers. They caught Sea Bass, Lings and other fish up to tag and release. I am sure this study would
indicate that the fish brought up from deep water survive after release. I believe the only danger to the fish
when released would be Orientation when they get back to the bottom. They may not be able to escape
a predator. But at least he would contribute to the nartural part of the food chain.

Thanks :smile:

[BungaBunga]

Thanks for this post! My son and I left a couple of big floaters out there last week and it HURTS to do that :shrug:, we were wondering what the options might be. Think I'll build a Frankenator before I go back to that particular rock pile.

[Albacore Tuna Captain]

FYI

The ODFW is currently doing a study of this problem aboard the Blitz. From what I've seen, the results are encouraging. :grin: I won't go into details since this is their study and they will want to analize the results before they make recommendations but all of your ideas have some merit in my opinion. :applause:

Basically they are sending the fish back down in a cage with a video camera to study the fish behavior after they have been brought to the surface. Many factors affect each species. Course they won't know the long term effect on the fish just yet and more study will be needed.

Captain MIke

[jet2go]

Here in Montana (I know it ain't the big salt, but still...)I have had good luck releasing lake trout with blown up air bladders. The technique is to use a S hook from a bungie cord, tied onto a fishing line and a couple pound weight. The S hook is caught in the corner of the fish's mouth and it is quickly lowered. Once you hit the depth you want, a few quick shakes and away it goes. Quick and easy. The trick is to let the weight freefall to keep the S hook engaged in the fish mouth and pulling down.

Tried it last month in Quatsino sound and it seemed to work fine with the bottom fish, although I had no way of really telling. At least there weren't any floaters visible.

[Threemuch]

After attending the groundfish meetings, add widows to the fish to be released if at all possible.


Shelton Products makes a thing called the SFD which looks to be a great tool to release rockfish. I am going to get some and report back on this thread.

[SouthCoastStu]

Attended Englunds "Saltwater Sport Fishing Seminar" on Saturday. Steve Theberge of Ocean Sea Grant gave a great presentation on Barotrauma. He had video of fish (I think they had a mini-cam attached to the line) being released using an in-line device (Shelton's?).

A couple of things I took home:
1.) Venting is not the prefered method. As mentioned before it can introduce infection, you could miss the swim bladder or you might even stick yourself :sick:
2.) From the video, getting the fish down 2 atmospheres (~60') does a real good job of recovering the fish.
3.) The cages work good, but I don't really want to loose the deck space they take up, or have another line cluttering the deck.
4.) From the video, it looks to be key to get the weight in the water (~3-4' below the fish) before dropping the fish in the water. This way the weight starts pulling the fish down before it falls of the inverted hook.

I had planned on using a weight and inverted hook on a dedicated pole like was posted earlier, but I know I will want to get back down and fishing as soon as possible.

I came up with this rig:
http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/medium/1621Release.JPG
The rubber bands probably won't work on braided line, but beads and bobber stops would.

This would go on the rig your fishing 3-4' above the terminal gear (halibut rig, jig) when your fishing deeper water. Whatcha think?

I bet if someone contacted Steve, he'd show up for a TA meeting :smile:

[andiamo]

I had to send down two Canary fish today. I didn't have an inverted hook rig, as described by the various posts. However, I did have a downrigger clip. So I quickly snapped my downrigger clip onto my halibut spreader (where the hook-rig goes), clipped the Canary's lower jaw with the downrigger clip, removed the hook from his jaw, and unclipped the hook rig from the spreader. I let him down >100' and jerked on the rig.
Two canarys were caught during the day. Each time I used this method, they went down and stayed down (We had extremely good visibility on the surface all day; NO FLOATERS) :dance: :angel:

[skein]

We released an orange fish using the inverted hook and weight method and felt it shake itself off down there. It's a nice feeling to know we're getting those guys back down where they have a good chance of survival.

Skein

[apparentgenius]

I had the same experience. The water was so clear on Thursday, you could see more than 75' deep. I was sending a yelloweye down and watched it swim off before it disappeared.

glen

[Navigator]

Wow - I am not a halibut fisher - but read this thread and just have to say - Thankyou for being so viligent for the resource. Just an another example of responsible sportsmanship Ifish promotes.

If I ever go halibut fishing or deep water rock fishing - I will know to ask where the Frankenator is.

:applause:

[PismoGary]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the boards so this is my first post. If it works, I'll add another post.

[PismoGary]

Ok, that kind of worked.
I liked the idea of the SFD (Shelton Fish Decender) and they're easy to make. I think it's the quickest way to return a fish to the depth and causes the least amount of injury to the fish. The material is readily available and only takes about 15 minutes to make one. Just my $.02
PismoG

[Threemuch]

Welcome, PismoG. Also, there is a release by ODFW written by Steve Theberge and Steve Parker which details other release methods as well.

Rockfish Release Methods (http://seagrant.oregonstate.edu/sgpubs/onlinepubs/g05001.pdf)

[PismoGary]

Threemuch,
Thank you, That was a good article.
Just an FYI, as you can see, I'm from Central California but we share many of the same species down here. I just wish our Lingcod and Halibut got as big as yours up there. We do have the great fortune to fish as deep as 240ft down here, which we haven't been able to do for several years. That opens up a fishery that hasn't been touched by recreational fisherman in a long time but the "no retention" species suffer release from those depths unless we as fisherman can do something about it. We can and I do! I hate seeing fish floating around on the water only to be plucked from the water by seaguls or snatched by the fur bags.
Thanks again, looking forward to learning more from all of the experienced people that contribute to the boards.

Tight lines and 4kt winds!

PismoG

[StrikeFighter]

Latest news on the SFD
From Sandra Diamond, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Biology
Texas Tech University
Lubbock, TX 79409-3131

We are starting on a proposal this week (due August 12) that will incorporate tests on your SFD (Shelton Fish Descender) for red snapper. I have handed out SFD to some fishermen and also to Roy Crabtree, the
NMFS Regional Director and they are very interested. My student is at
the coast this week checking on the SFD we gave out to fishermen.
I'll let you know if they have any feedback.

Thanks, Sandra Diamond, Ph.D.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Another study at Cal State long Beach
Study by Erica Jarvis and CSULB (California State University, Long Beach)professor Christopher Lowe.
This is some reports from their experiments done last week.
One the first newspaper article below click on Photo Gallery next to the article to see pictures of the fish and people.
http://presstelegram.com/search/ci_3948125
http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/articles/3101186.html
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/atoz/article_1186623.php

I have donated SFD units to Coastside Fishing Club, RFA, Ocean organization in Oregon, Oregon State university, various State Dept. of Fish and Game and to various folks and biologist doing studies of fish suffering barotrauma. As our fishery resource become more strained from fishing more research is being done to prevent floaters by many folks and you can help by using some kind of re-compression device.

To see video of how easy it is to send fish back down and let water pressure re-compress fish suffering barotrauma.
http://www.sheltonproducts.com/SFD.html

[OceanBlue]

Thanks again Bill! We sold a few at the "tunaholics" meeting last night.

You'll be happy to hear that our by-catch of YE and Canary is down this year from the same time last year - we're either doing a better job of avoiding or properly identifying them. Seems to be a lot of awareness about releasing fish.

All this focus, attention and education seems to be working! :dance:

Thanks again for your generous contribution to the cause & all your hard work!

Jennifer
Oregon Coalition for Educating ANglers (OCEAN)

[StrikeFighter]

Great, thank you for the update. Those TA (tunaholics) folks really care about our fishery. The key is as you say awareness and that leads to caring which leads to ways to save our resources. Rockfish season just opened down here in California and your chart is being put to good use. They are letting us catch fish out 180 feet and that will cause barotrauma for sure if they are must release species. I hope you folks are doing well.