Things sledders say themselves to feel better

[rob allen]

first of all this post is reactionary so bear with me and take out some merit.. second of all umm well it's me so take off some merit for that.
thirdly i have been in sleds and enjoyed it.. so take off some merit for that.. lastly i am talking about sleds in small rivers or when big rivers get small.. Columbia/ Chehelis guys and guys going out towards the bay from tidewater this is not directed towards you..

1. It's better for bankies if I go faster. Bogus!

2. My boat doesn't spook fish it stirs them up so they bite better . HA!! false!!!

3.. I can free drift a quarter mile downstream and still have first dibs on the head of the run.
*LOL* talk about selfish..


here is the real skinny.. stay as far away from bankies and as slow as safely possible.

Running over fish in shallow water scares them makes them skatter and are much much much less inclined to bite.

If you float through a piece of water you cannot reserve what you have left behind. if i come around the corner and want to plug it i am going to.. If you wanna fish there more then anchor up...

[Fishin Magician]

I agree partially. The operator of the boat (sled) should be courteous when at all possible, sometimes it is not possible to go slow in shallow water though.......

John

[rob allen]

FM thats why I worded it the way i did..

[Straydog]

On the Rogue, it all depends on who you encounter.

I can not tell you how many times I have slowed to an idle only to have some yo yo go into coniptions flailing there arms motioning me to speed up and yelling to "get moving!!!"

There is simply no pleasing some people I see on the river.

On the other hand, some are very courteous.

Further, fish with me on the lower river in late summer, early fall and I will prove to you that often the half pounder bite picks up once a sled or tour boat passes through.

Tolerance for all can go a long way as can courtesy to all.

Now, how about a thread on how SOME fly fishers make themselves feel better when wading through Redds or how SOME drift boaters make themselves feel better when dragging oars through Redds?

[jimh]

Comments and questions.

1. How fast is too fast?
2. I cast behind sleds when they go past me on plane. Sometimes I pick up fish even before they are out of sight. I think prolonged noise in an area is worse.
3. I don't think this one is debatable.

Personally, I prefer to fish where bank access is limited, and I avoid skinny sections with lots of bank access.

[Keta]

:mad: "Now, how about a thread on how SOME fly fishers make themselves feel better when wading through Redds" :mad:

Sick 'em Dog, I'll be right behind you hitting them in the shins :grin:

This never fails to **** me off.

[Straydog]

Keta,

It never fails to amaze me, and tick me off either.

Almost seems as if it is getting worse instead of better as the years go on.
I suppose it has to do with more people in general.

From the "I thought I had seen and heard it all" dept. came a doozy a couple of weeks ago. Some guy with a bow and arrow was shooting spawning Salmon right below the footbridge just down from town. (Tussing Park) He got all huffy when my buddy explained that was probably one of the more stupid things he had ever seen. Thanks to cell phone technology the bowfisher was still huffing and puffing tough talk when the city cops dropped in for a visit. graemlins/dork.gif :hoboy: graemlins/dork.gif

[ 11-02-2003, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[sparse gray hackle]

Nicely said Stray-dog. graemlins/applause.gif There is always some pompous jerk that think the way he fishes is the only way. The river is big enough for us all as long as we respect each other. :cheers:

[rob allen]

Sparce gray hackle.. I couldn't agree more but what i am saying is that when the water is low and guys in sleds are running up and down the river they are violating that very principle... you cannot be respecting someone and at the same time be running your boat full throttle through the water they are fishing..

[Flatfish]

I own a sled now. I used to run a drifter( better than 20 years).

Sometimes, sled operators do indeed step on some folks' toes. Some bankies and driftboat folks have little or no idea how a motorboat HAS to be operated in shallow water.

Powerboats and rowboats are not real compatable for most folks.

Rowboats and trolling sleds( going slowly over the fish) spook fish more than a fast moving boat.

Here in NW Oregon the sleds can run the Willy, Columbia, the coastal areas( bays usually), the Clack and the Sandy. When I ran a drifter, I stayed away from those areas that sleds run until rivers dropped enough that the jets stayed away. It worked well for me. I have access to many more rivers in a drifter than a sled is allowed to run. At least within a short drive.

I used to run the Clack in a drifter in the fall. But when river levels came up to 12'( low sled levels), I went back to the coast and rowed around there. Less headaches to deal with.

If I go past you, I try to think about how I affect your experience. But a 4000 pound load does have to be operated in a certain way. And there are times when I simply have no choice but to plane thru on the only available line. If you are standing at rivers edge at such a spot, be understanding. Move to another spot. Or be mad at boaters all day.

Mark and the 2 cycle dog.

[rob allen]

Flatfish

Here isn southwest washington there are two rivers for boaters to choose from. The Cowlitz and the North Lewis. Thats it all the other rivers at the time of year I am talking about are too small even for driftboats. There is no option for drifters to "get away" from the sleds. and when the river is 1500cfs or even 2000 and the sleds run all the way up the river then back down there is literally no point in fishing they have scared every fish in the river because at that level it's too small for sleds ( in my opinion) They ruin the fishing for everyone else. The fish do not recover from being spooked this way they are virtually uncatchable after that. I have seen it time and time again. I start at the dam flaot down and have good fishing til i get to the first sled then notihng the rest of the day. It's so predictable it happens every single time..
That said there is a huge section of the North lewis that never sees a drift boat but is great sidedrifting sled water but the sleds are always up where the river is small ruining everyones day.

Anyway all I am asking for is a little courtesy just like everyone else wants. There are certain times and places you cannot take a sled and be courteous. maybe thoes are places a sled shouldn't be at that time...

Not trying to start arguments just trying to get people to think about what they are doing and how it affects other people and if what you do does affect someone negatively ask yourself if you should be doing it.. I do this to myself all the time in all areas of my life. Just suggesting others do the same..

[Thumper]

Rob:

I question your conclusion that sleds put fish off the bite. Perhaps the most effective way to fish the NFL, in terms of fish per hour per rod, is boondogging. That method requires running up and fishing back over the same water multiple times. As the guides know, that produces fish. If fish were too scared to bite, I would think that boondogging would not be so productive.

I would be interested in knowing your specific concerns about the NFL. I run my sled there year-round. What areas do you think we sled-types should stay away from in the low-water months?

[Straydog]

I agree Thumper.........

I have caught fish in a run I had just motored through and in fact have caught fish with my big motor still running.

Rob, not trying to incite and I like your theory of living life not to interfer with others. However, consider the people in other boats, sled or otherwise, that want to boondog or side drift water you are plugging. Nothing wrong about it but you are interfering with what they want to do. Not saying it bad or good, it just is!

If everyone did their fishing with the sole intent of not interfering with others, very few could fish. I think keeping interferance at a minimum is more reasonable but the best and most productive approach is more tolerance for those that may, at least temporarily, interfer with your fishing.

[ 11-03-2003, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[Silver Hilton]

Rob,

I run both a sled and a drift boat. I don't like guys running on plane over my lines either, and will do what I can to avoid it. However, I just don't buy your assertion that fish go off the bite once they've been run over. I have caught way too many fish on the river I fish when I and other people have been running around all day. Day before yesterday I fished a hole with ten boats running around in it all day, including us. We hit over 15 fish.

I'm sorry that the wake intrudes, and I wish it didn't. I shall certainly use every effort to minimise the impact. But for now, I have the legal right to use the power boat, so I shall.

Sadly, we all have an impact, even if it's only to wipe the anticipatory smile off the face of the person behind us when he comes around the corner to see us alreadly in the slot. The bankies feel impacted by the drift boats. The drift boats hate the sleds. The little sleds hate the big sleds. And we all hate the guy who caught the fish 50 yards downstream that would have been ours if we'd gotten there ten minutes earlier (if our worthless buddy had been to the ramp on time!!!)

Now, as to what I say to make myself feel better(it's a joke, folks...):

1) "We'll be off the water and getting burgers before his frozen butt gets to the launch. See ya..." :wink:

2) "See how little wake I throw at 45 mph?"

3) Redneck's last words: " Here, hold my beer and watch this..."

4) "Can you turn up the heat a bit and show me how to recline this chair?"

5) "What else you got in that cooler?"

6) "Fish on. There, there, there...!!! Cracker."

7) "Don't those poor guys look cold?"

[NETONE]

umm...well first I was on the bank for many years, even developed an "attitude" towards drift boats & sleds. Then I purchased a drift boat, applied my bank attitude, been great, then purchased a sled..applied my bank & drift attitude...yet to have a problem...Excpet from the more narrow minded bankie....some things will never change no matter how one trys. Can't tell you how many times , pass to the inside, hug the far bank, run the kicker thur the hole, NO NO plane thur.......damed if ya do dam if ya don't..

I even last year MADE it a point to idel up below the bank guy(s) ask where ya want me to pass, 50% OF THE TIME GOT ATTITUDE, just for asking...so will this issues ever be solved...not until both parties walk in each other shoes...Maybe its time to go by a sled...

[BrokeItOff]

I am sorry you had a bad encounter(s) with a power boat operator(s).

As with for your points of contention, I think the situation(safety and courtesy) dictates the behaviour of the boat operator. Sometimes the operator is trying his best to honor these principles and it is perceived incorrectly. As for fishing down on someone, I hate it. I have had bankies and boats do it to me. :shrug:

[ 11-03-2003, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: BrokeItOff ]

[Flatfish]

Well Rob,

since I am not too famaliar with the Washington rivers I will take your word for what is driftable and what is not.

If it were me, I would

1- Buy an Oregon Lic and drift the Clack and Sandy til the sleds return there. Good fishing there with minimal competition( realtively speaking).

2- Fish from the bank on a river that is not driftable or sledable( is that a word?).

3- Buy a pontoon boat. Those things can go anywhere pretty much. A lot of first water in the world with one of those. This is a better option than many realize. Especially when you realize that 600 bucks will get you a good ride that is ready to fish. If I bought another rowboat today, it would have pontoons under it.

4- Buy a sled. I did because I was tired of fighting the crowds on the driftable rivers. I have more quality options now than I ever had in the rowboat. I work less now than I did rowing too. Which my lazy side thinks is great.

5- Buy a big screen TV and watch my Cowboys win every superbowl for the next 10 years( thru thick and thin, fans are fans LOL).

Some folks on the Cow would argue Thumpers point. Clancy books 2 trips a day during the peak of the summer runs at Blue Creek. That is a lotta unspooked fish.

Dawn caught a fish yesterday that a sled had ran over no more than 15 seconds before she hooked up. She actually cast in between the wake of the boat.

I understand your frustration with mixed use rivers. Listed above is not an argument. It is in total honesty what I would do.

Sleds are a lot like Jet Skis-Everyone on one is a jerk...Unless you are the guy riding it. Then they are a good deal.

Mark and the dog.

[justcastn]

No one will ever be happy. :shrug:

[FishinMission]

While I can say my trips to the NF Lewis have been few (2), and with the water at 2400 cfs...there was plenty of water to traverse the river by a sled. Don't know how low I'd wanna do it lower than that, either, until I get to know it.

But...

I think if your attitude is every time you see a sled the bite goes off...you should just give up and go home. Attitude can make or break your success.

I spent many years operating a driftboat on sled-able rivers that were actively sledded. Yeah...the waves were a nuisance..but they never stopped me from catching fish. Like someone prior mentioned above...they've caught fish within sight of that passing sled.

I'll bet within 10 years, if you don't have a sled, you'll be wanting one.

Fact is...some are courteous, some are not...and some can't slow down where you think they might be able to.

My 2 cents..

Mark

[rags]

I have owned a driftboat for years, fish the bank and now own a sled. I try to remember what it is like fishing in each situation and be as courteous as possible but I have come to one conclusion. You are going to upset some people no matter what you do so don't worry about it. Do what is safe for everyone and have a good time. Smile and say hello. As far as spooking fish, when I fish the lower Deschutes for Steelhead I love to throw a lure in the wake of a sled. :grin:

[A-Boss]

The one point of Rob's I totally agree with is #3. Just because a sled can get easily back upstream, doesn't mean they have rights to water behind them.

Once you've boondogged through a drift its fair game to anyone coming down behind you.

You've had your chance at the water now its my turn. If you want to fish behind me be my guest, but don't just motor back up and start casting right on top of my plugs.

A lot of places I can get off to the side and row back upstream to plug a hole multiple times. If someome drops in the top while I'm doing that, I either fish behind them or move on. I don't jump back in front of them.

[Plum Crazy]

Ya I see Pro/Con's to every type of fishing. I now have a sled but not after spending years with cold wet feet and 0 heaters. Upgraded to DB got tired of spending my time rowing and fishing less.
I agree with 76 that everyone wont be happy. Try and remember your roots but, The one thing I remember is my roots were to love fishing not just catching. If my wake bothers someone I'm sorry. I bought my jet too fish ALL kinds of H20 and sorry but I'm gonna fish the Clack and waters like it. In the past I've had people get mad in my DB because I floated towards them rather than floating right through their drift. Some people just don't get it.
Can't we all just get along?
Fire :cheers:

[Tilla]

As a sledder, and drift boater, and bankie I will always be as courteous as I can with as much minimal impact to others.
I do disagree with the first two statements. Running by the hatchery on the Lewis as fast as possible keeps the amount of time in the fishing water to a minimum and makes me harder to hit with lead from a bankie :shocked: .
I think that many fish just move around the boats, but move back in sometimes less than a minute to their holding spots.
It seems to me that some of the better guides will stick to a hole for hours because the fish are there and are not going anywhere.
It was said before, "You can't make everyone happy". Some people are born that way.

[Bob Barthlow]

"When in Rome"....use some common scense. :cheers:

Examples...
If a drift has some driftboats working plugs & bait divers don't try to sidedrift through it
(unless you can swing way wide)....

Same go's if sleds are sidedrifting a run. don't try pullin plugs through it or anchoring up in the slot they're workin (you can pull to the side and anchor up and driftfish like they do along the claybanks below BC).....

And no I don't think sleds turn off the bite, @ times it helps relocate fish so ya's can get at 'em IMO :grin:

[ 11-03-2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Rapid Robert ]

[Jennie@ifish]

The other day I was fishing Wilson tidewater and I was standing in the bow of the boat.
A sled came by at maximum wake speed... about 20 or so, and I couldn't get down fast enough, before I came inches from falling in, due to a HUGE wake!

I couldn't believe it!

I've honestly never witness such RUDE sledding behavior as I have this season. It overwhelms me with people's ignorance and selfishness!

What are some people thinking? (Or are they not!?)

Even a well known guide did this to Bill and I, and had the nerve to wave as he went by! Totally unbelievable!

What we do, when approaching a bank fishermen, is to ask, "Want us to go on the inside, or the out?"

Some people honestly don't know it's better for us to get real close, so we don't assume, anymore. Let them tell you what they like. It solves lots of issues!

Also, creep by SLOWLY when bankers are fishing. I know that sometimes it's better to go fast, but it just is more sensitive to creep by. Besides, while you are at it, you can talk to them, and maybe even exchange a smile, instead of a cruddy sneer. I've always had more fun when people are having fun around me.

I have to say, I really respect the way Bill treats other anglers, and it makes me think he's a better guide for it. I'd pick a guy who respects his fellow fisherman over one who catches tons of fish, anyday! (Wait a minute... let me think about that one. [] !)

No, seriously... jet sled owners? Let's not get a bad rep. Pull over and invite one of those bank anglers into your sled sometime. We've done it, and had a great time!

Jen

[ 11-03-2003, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Metal Manipulator]

I do my best to accomadate bankies and drift boats when I Jet. One time I made a mistake one the North forksantiam river running up from the forks we stoped above the Island and fished for about an hour then decided to go to the next hole knowing that there could be a drift boat coming down. Arround the next corner was a gravel bar that crossed the river at an angle and with the river running at 3.4ft you could have crossed the river in knee boots. No where to turn around I spoted a small slot in the middle hit the throttle and crossed at this point. on each side of the boat there was only enough water to get your ancles wet. I could not believe we did not hit bottom. worse yet fifty yard ahead there is a drift boat whose passengers eyes were wide to say the least. I slowed as we got to them and the boat was bumping the bottom when I stoped. I then turned around passing the boat again made it through the slot and then went home. I was extreamley glad that nothing happened. My lesson learned, don't run this river in low water. I have difted this section for twenty + years so I knew every section on the river but it does change year to year.

[rob allen]

Tilla

The hatchery hole on the lewis is deep enough you are not likely to spook the fish but when the river is 1800 cfs and a sled goes upriver another mile or so the holding lies are not deep pools they are shallow flats and tail outs and when a sled gos over them the fish scatter and will not bite!!! spooked fish do not bite. I have seen it dozens of times. The reason sleds catch fish out of water they just ran through is that they are fishing deep water. The shallow fish however are gone..

Also.. a free drifter cannot expect to save for himself an entire run a mile long.. One he floats through it it is fair game and it is not rude for someone to come in and pull plugs through it!!!!!!! it's rude to assume you can tie up a half mile of river all to yourself.. if you want to fish a spot then stay in that spot!!!

[back bouncer]

this last spring on the trask river during springer season I watch a couple guys leave the 2 bit hole in their sled. they got around the corner and put all 200 ponys to the water. its a 5 mile an hour limit. these guys probably never noticed the bank erosion in some spots. in fact they could of cared less. but I am sure that some of the folks living on the river side did.

[Bob Barthlow]

Rob,
The reason sleds catch fish out of water they just ran through is that they are fishing deep water. The shallow fish however are gone. <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">you talk of the Cowlitz river....do you ever fish below Blue creek? :shrug: ....I didn't think so :grin: ..... I've seen days in the winter when 60 sleds are working that drift...and the bite was hot all day long.....I don't think 3'-6' is "deep water".....same thing in the summer but with less boats and half the water. :cheers: .....think about this ...these hatchery steelhead were brought up to the sound on machinery....that feed truck driving along the raceway, and the sound of those auto feeders ment dinner :wink: ............. FISH ON !!!

[ 11-03-2003, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: Rapid Robert ]

[Thumper]

Rob --- I am really interested in your recommendations for sleds on the Lewis. What specific areas do you believe should be off-limits to sleds in low water ... say at 1,000 or 1,200 CFS?

[rob allen]

Thumper first of all I don't wanna regulate anyone off the river. I want guys to use common sence and courtesy.. However if I was to make a reg it would be no motors above Colvin creek.below say 2500.

[rola76]

I'm assuming that virtually all boat fishermen, whether by sled or driftboat, started off on the bank. Truly "learning" to fish is best from the bank...it's an art and a science compared to plugging, boondogging, etc., at least in my opinion.

I grew up fishing on my dad's boat and now own my own sled, plus I have fished many many times from a driftboat.

In my opinion, it's all about respect and courtesy. In some situations, there is virtually nothing you can do to avoid bank fisherman...it's inevitable you'll cause waves of some sort. However, there is a difference between polite and obnoxious.

So to this whole issue, part of me wants to say, "Don't get made 'cause you don't have a boat" while the other part of me wants to say "Have some respect for those fishing from the bank as you once did."

In the end, as someone said earlier, you'll never make everyone happy!!

[Straydog]

Originally posted by rob allen:

Also.. a free drifter cannot expect to save for himself an entire run a mile long.. One he floats through it it is fair game and it is not rude for someone to come in and pull plugs through it!!!!!!! it's rude to assume you can tie up a half mile of river all to yourself.. if you want to fish a spot then stay in that spot!!! <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Rob,
I agree with this.

One problem I face is that when I anchor, then I get bad mouthed by the drifters. Anchoring in a hole is a big no no down here. I try to anchor to the side and then wave a drifter through to fish the slot. However, I then expect him to fish it once or twice and move on.....

I do agree though that once you have drifted down, the water above you is up for grabs. One can't expect to reserve the hole.

[Thumper]

Way to be Tilla --- give up all our secrets. :tongue: For those who haven't tried it, Tilla is right. Dragging a bait directly upstream is a deadly way to boondog. I think Rob is wrong about sleds scaring off fish.

[Nanook]

"Man, this stainless prop sure is running sweet out here in this deep ole' wide ole' Columbia."

:wink:

[joliver]

Unfortunately this topic and the responses on both sides are what makes sport fishing very susceptible. Bankies hate drift boaters, drift boaters hate jet boaters, fly guys hate spin fishers, Trout U hates NW Stl. Hdrs. and so on and so on. While we continue to fragment our fine sport, gripe and side against each other the special interest groups like Gill netters, Environmentalists, Eco groups, and Animal rights organizations prey on our sport. All this because we cant come together on a sport that we all love. I teach jet boat classes and I know there are people that need education, but there are far more boat operators that know their stuff and respect all users. On the same note I also know there are people that are weak on the oars and bank anglers that litter and ruin landowners property. So on that note, since we all have faults lets use this web page as a catalyst. Never has there been such a communication device like this to bring us together

[Tilla]

Two...no..three things sledders can do:
1. Pull in the lines and wait until they have passed well beyond (some argueable distance)the anchored, backtrolling, or relatively stationary vessel/bank fisherman.
2.Fish the other side of the boat as you pass. (Hint:It really pays off :rolleyes: )
3. Go somewhere else for awhile. graemlins/dork.gif Duh!

RA- I dunno about the shallow water thing. From up front we spot plenty of fish in hard worked areas both fast and slow boats even in the middle of the day. Whether they are biters anymore, who knows.
Recently we saw dozens of Cohos in the late AM in less than two feet of water in which everyone travels fast in all day and only us extreme sidedrifters bother with (..quiet Thumper!)

I've seen close to 14 hookups on Steelies between two boats in two hours in the same sled pucker water (under2-3 feet).
Some of the best action is found by the lazy or uninitiated sidedrifter who let's his line go straight upstream just 60 ft where the boat just passed over.( there goes another secret)
The more I think about it, the more exceptions I have to the spooked fish idea.
On the other hand, there is a slow down in real low water as the morning goes on....sometimes.

[ 11-04-2003, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Tilla ]

[CATCH AND EAT]

Fish will bite after a sled goes through a hole. Especially steelhead. Seen it happen many many times over. I have run through water and got to the top of a hole and looked back to see the boat I just passed fighting fish. :shocked: Seen videos of fish lying in a spot that was difficult to fish where the angler tossed in some pebbles near the fish to move it to a new location. One more cast and fish on!!!

Sledding is dependant on conditions and river levels like Rob said. I for one don't like to run the clackamas below 11ft in my sled. Just not confortable doing it. If I see and angler ahead of me he knows I am coming. If he is fishing a riffle on a corner he will just have to understand that I cannot slow down in this situation. Just not possible. I will cut in as close as I can to try and stay off his water. But like it has been said, you cannot please everyone.

Oh, and I just love being low holed too! graemlins/berry.gif If ya own a sled there is no need to anchor in the Clackamas. Use your motors dummy. :mad: