The angry river property owner

[Jennie@ifish]

I just walked down to the river to save the remaining 17 steelhead fry, stuck in a fast evaporating pool of water. They were stuck, and I used a net to transport them to the main river. Man, did they smile when they were released! They each and every one of them, turned around to thank me! :smile:

Anyway, after that, I noticed something that Bill would NOT be happy about.

Last chum season, we had many anglers stomp across the river towards our property right on top of where the chum spawn. We couldn't find any "Chum spawning grounds" signs, so we just posted "No Trespassing" at those points, thinking it would deter the people from wanting to cross there.
We posted them so that they were right at the river's edge at about the mean high water stage. No reason to fish at that location on our side, anyway, as it is better fishing on the other side.

So... I notice that the sign that Bill worked hard to put up had been vandalized. This sign was STURDY! They could have just ripped down the sign if it made them upset, but to ruin the whole structure? It was a 3 foot or so solid wood block, and it's cracked in two!

Bill said, "This is the kind of thing that enrages property owners to restrict access and fight against river rights for anglers."

We had a bad experience last year with people littering, and that is frustrating in and of itself, but to vandalize?

We didn't put up one of those nasty,
No fishing
No hunting
No boating
No anchoring signs, it was simply, "No tresspassing" sign that survived being flooded in high waters last winter. The sign was at the high mean water line.

Anyway, folks... I am all for river rights for anglers, but I'm beginning to understand the full spectrum of the problem for both sides. It's frustrating to pick up litter. It's VERY frustrating to attempt to save the chum redds and to take vandalism in trade.
Ask before you destroy things!!! It might end up that you'll find a new place to fish instead of more no trespassing signs.... and perhaps one of those other nasty signs!
Jen

[ 06-15-2003, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Snag]

I could not agree more.

[fish_on]

We used to have those kinds of problems on out ranch, put up a sign and down it would come. We finally put up a sign that said "DH&S hunting club members only" there was no club but those signs have been there for 18 years and counting.

[Stew]

I agree! It's tough to go out there and try to defend the publics right of access to the rivers in Oregon when this stuff goes on :mad: Many landowners have a legitimate gripe

[TJB]

Your first instincts about a sign that says "chum spawning ground" may have right. I'm sure someone out there can help make the sign if you have the design. ODFW might even help or have one ready made. If you need more lumber I will chip in.

[Jerry Dove]

Several years ago, we had lot of sp. Ch. spawning on the Trask in a low water area. We build a 4x8 sign with 4x4 post. Statment,( Salmon spawning please do not bother them). Hell they used the sign to tie there boat to while they tried to snag the fish. Go figgure.

[Fish Hawg]

some people just dont care :hoboy: its sad but true and they ruin it for everyone else

[Smj]

Jennie, I would say that you're wasting your breath talking to this group, I'd hate to think ifishers would be the ones causing yours and other mentioned damages.
I never did any damage when I came to the Tillamook area to fish and recreate but that was years ago. After the land owners in the area closed their properties on the south side of the Kilches above the logging bridge and at the farmers bridge where you used to put the $$ in the old steel fence post and other places the Tillamook area hasn't seen any $$ or anything from me.

Smj

[Jennie@ifish]

Wasting my breath talking to my friends?

It may not be the usual registered ifish contributers that would cause a problem... I highly doubt that... but ifish reaches many homes.

Not only that, but sometimes you just need to gripe to a friend. :smile:

The one thing I want to get out to the homes that ifish reaches is that there are spots that are heavilly spawned on the Kilchis in the salmon seasons. Please watch carefully when you cross rivers!

..and of course, pack double trash out, what you pack in. :smile: If we all did that, there wouldn't be a problem.

There, I feel better!

Jen

[ 06-16-2003, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[BonkBonkBonk]

Ma! get my shotgun! them coons are back!

[DriftR]

Jennie,
Try a differct tactic. Put back up the sign and then add another one near it. "Guard Dogs". I have one on my security fence gate at my office. You'd be amazed at how many people stop in their tracks when they see "Guard Dogs". They might not respect no trespassing but they sure will think twice about "Guard Dogs".

[GoFish]

I think that you should put one of those "roadside" memorials with all the flowers and stuff and a sign lamenting the recent demise of a trespasser who didn't read too well.

[Tilla]

"Danger Rattlesnakes", is the best sign. Sure it's ridiculous in your neck of the woods. But you never can be too careful! :rolleyes:

[24 on/ 48 off]

How about: "NO TRESPASSING- VIOLATORS WILL BE REPORTED TO THE TILLAMOOK COUNTY SHERIFFS OFFICE"

--spud-- :smile:

[Point-of-Sale Clerk]

Jen and Jerry

You should indeed try a different approach regarding the language you use on any sign designed to prevent unwanted fishing. I believe the following would be most affective:

WARNING: EATING SALMON CAUGHT IN THIS AREA WILL CAUSE ERECTILE DISFUNCTION AND OTHER SEXUAL SIDE EFFECTS IN ADULT MALES.
:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :sick:

(I think that should work pretty well :grin: )

[Jerry Dove]

Used to be a sign up Kilches that said,( IF YOU CAN CROSS MY PROPERTY IN TWO MINUTES, GO AHEAD. MY BULL CAN CROSS IT IN ONE MINUTE) I never did hear of any one trying it. JD

[Miss B Haven]

***- too late for most people who tresspass and litter! :grin:
Jerry- I used to drvie by there JUST to see the sign and have a laugh (usually after a no-fish day).
You're right- never saw a bull but never tried. Sure did think about it though! :grin: :wink:

[fisheromen]

Jennie, I know you would never do it, but by far the most effective "no tresspassing" sign I ever saw said simply "keep the f... out". I think people got the idea the guy was serious and the type who wouldn't put up with anyone on his property.

It makes me sick for you that you have to deal with that kind of stuff. At the same time I hope I have to someday! :grin:

[ 06-16-2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: fisheromen ]

[Lovestafish]

How about the sign that says "forget the dog, beware of owner!" Just kidding... :wink: Seriously tho, some peole have no respect for others at all. I don't see them sportsmen/women, and I wish they'd take up badmittin. Those folks definately ruin a lot of good hunting & fishing spots for us all. Just take a look at the faces on some of the land owners around Burns, if they think you're a "Valley Hunter"! It says it all....

[Fishplay]

Jennie, those fry will be so thankful they will return to you their bounty!

As for the frustration of being a property owner on a waterway, I fully understand.

I live on a small creek that sees a small return of fish and am amazed at the disrespect the public has for my property.

[BuKuBass]

"NO TRESPASSING. SURVIVORS WILL BE VIOLATED THEN PROSECUTED"

[Miss B Haven]

BuKuBass - ROFLMAO :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: graemlins/applause.gif graemlins/applause.gif :bowdown: :bowdown:

[hustlerrjim]

Jen
I have to disagree with you on this one [what else is new] loretta and I have let the public use our place for the last 30 years, to launch their boats
The first five years we let everybody in with no charge, but we soon found some people were running the river three times to be first in line; so, we put a charge [$5.00 ]to launch your boat, and we also provide a shuttle service,
During these thirty years we have only had one confrontation with a drift Boater ,we politely asked him not to return, [I have one more on my list I am waiting for]
During all these years, people have borrowed nets, oars, anchors, and if we are not at home they have used the old red pickup to shuttle themselves, they just leave the money in the ash tray,
During this 30 years I don’t remember anybody trying to cheat us or not returning things they have borrowed or used.
Of course we have a few rules, and for several years when I was guiding we did not let commercial guides use our boat ramp, [why should I let the competition use my facilities???]
Another rule that has bore fruit is please release all female Chinook,
this along with our steel head chapter getting the upper North Fork closed to fishing during the spawning season now shows record runs of Chinook spawning on the upper North Fork, and Soapstone Creek.
Probably the best rule we have, and it is strictly enforced ,do not get out of your boat on the bank on private property, this has kept everybody pretty happy.
We have heard over the years, you don’t own the river, that is true, but I do own the boat ramp, and if you wish to use it there are a few rules that should be followed to keep everybody happy.
As far as litter? I can only remember one cigarette package that I picked up,
There are some wonderful people that come to our place and we look forward to many more years of meeting them.
This has worked for us for 30 years,

jim and loretta

[reeldick]

Growing up years and years ago my dad had a few rules for fishing and hunting on others' property.
1. Ask permission
2. Close gates behind you
3. Take all your trash home with you
4. Stop to say thank you when you leave
I think we fisherpeople would have less hard feelings from landowners if we would all be a little more courteous.

[Brine]

Jen, Welcome to my world. The No Trespaaing signs are always the first to get ripped down. Gives that sort of person the most satisfaction. Don't let them deter you. Stick to your guns and put up two signs this time, and then 4 signs, etc...

[Bulleye]

Wow 1 success story. Thanks hustle for sharing a story with a glimmer of hope for river dwellers. I don't live on the river but I also feel outraged by the blatant abuse and disregard for others property. It makes me sick to see all the garbage at the popular fishing holes on the Sandy river. Problem is that I'm never in the right place at the right time to tell them how I feel. I'm usually pretty quick to speak out when I see crimes of disrespect being commited. So I will keep my eyes open and when I do catch someone being slob, I will try to teach them some respect.
Jennie, I hope you find an answer to your problem, but in the mean time all I can do is pack out more than I packed in, and pray that everyone who is causing this problem will wise up.

[Stratocaster]

Used to be a sign up Kilches that said,( IF YOU CAN CROSS MY PROPERTY IN TWO MINUTES, GO AHEAD. MY BULL CAN CROSS IT IN ONE MINUTE) <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Now thats funny. Years ago i crossed a field on the way to a swimming hole. On the way back i ran into a very mad bull who decided to chase me, luckily i was close enough to the fence to get away. :shocked: Sure wished they had had that sign.

[Fishfeet]

Hey Jen! I know what you mean about the littering and general vandalism on private property! My parents once owned ten beautiful acres on the Little North Santiam, including 400 ft. of frontage to the middle of the river. This was heaven to my siblings and I for over 40 years. But, My parents didn`t post it for the first 30 or so years. So it was pretty much open to the public to use the great swimming and fishing hole. When I got out of the service in "75", the first thing I did was go down and say hi to the old fishing hole. I could not believe the putrid garbage including dirty diapers, dog doo doo,broken bottles etc. scattered all over the beach. I immediately went to my parents and told them I would like to post it. They agreed since they were tired of the mess. Every sign they had posted asking people to clean up after themselves had been torn down and in some cases been used for firewood. It is still posted to this day, although no longer belongs to the family.

[JPSFISHY]

Jen, I'm with you guys all the way. Over the years I've had pochers shooting deer at night in my field, I had a guy in a 40ft motor home pull right in and shoot a pheasant. I've had to take down my archery targets. People drive right onto the property to shoot them with guns. I've given chase, and I've gone round and round with Clack. Co. Sheriff's, and State Cops to no avail. I took a day last week to float the Clack by myself, and picked up 4 big trash bags of cans/bottles, and 4 big bags of trash-blankets/shoes/diapers/cut cans w/ melted dope in them-I think??, and tons of beer cartons.So much I couldn't get it all.
I maybe lost a fishing customer from Idaho because of it. They said-"If this is what the Clackamas is, we're not gonna pay to look at this, wether we catch fish or not." I agree
All of this is a full time job for all of us. I carry trash bags, and use them. I constanly look for that person or rig that seems to be out of place. I talk to people all the time as kind of an educational/venting tool. I'm not giving up.
THIS IS MY HOME! THE GREAT OREGON OUTDOORS!
Sorry, I kinda went off huh?ha I just get fired up over all the disrespectfull folks that surround us.
Maybe changing the sign to some kind of fake club name just might help vs. no trespassing???
Good luck.

[Birdnest]

Jen,

I agree on the "Chum Spawning Grounds", or something to that effect. This type of approach might actually appeal to somebody's sense of natural duty or inform an otherwise clueless person. The no tresspassing, regardless of who is in the right, will more times than not put a knucklehead on the defensive and result in a landowner vs fisherman mentality. Just my .02

Birdnest

[Jennie@ifish]

That sign up the Kilchis about the bull was up for many years until a few years ago. I think it was stolen. :shocked:

You know, the nice folks that use the river took it. :shrug:

I am apalled, at times, at the disrespect. I just don't get it. Why would people drop bags of McDonald trash on the road? WHY?

Argh g g gr!

Jen

[C-lice]

Two ideas: One, get signs from the County trapper or animal control or whomever which advertise animal (cougar?) traps in the immediate area. Hell, one could even say that there are mink traps in the water.

Two, get a camouflaged motion sensor camera like the good ol' boys in the south use to photograph deer that cross their hunting areas. SOMEBODY in law enforcement probably knows these jerks...and you'll have photographic evidence. They're like $150.00 from Bass Pro or Cabelas. Signs advertising the cameras are optional.