Sandy Report

[Adofish]

If fished the Sandy yesterday for Steel with no luck. First fished the Garbage Hole then several holes below Revenue Bridge. Saw a couple of salmon rolling below the bridge. Spoke with several people on the river and they were all having a slow day as well. Maybe it was the bouncing barometer.

[Cohoangler]

That's been my experience this year on the Sandy. Fishing has been very slow, almost non-existent. It might be different if I had seen any salmon rolling/jumping, but I haven't. Not sure if they're very late or not showing up. The water temperatures are rising, which should push the fish upstream. But that won't make them any easier to find. Or catch.

[Teamfish]

The fish are up high. I fished Cedar Creek last Friday, my buddies and I hooked 10 and landed 6 steelhead. :dance: On Sunday the wife and I drifted Oxbow to Dabne and landed a 16lb springer. The fish hit her rod and after a 10 minute fight, she had her first springer ever. :dance: I went out yeasterday to Cedar Creek and hooked 3 and landed 2, the one that got away wrapped me around a tree :mad: These were also steelhead. The fish are in I saw about 6 springer packed out of there yeasterday. I had friends that fished the creek saturday and hooked 9 and landed 6. graemlins/applause.gif Get there early and you'll have a good chance. I have had good luck with prawns, as well as pink and orange corkie and yarn. Good Luck, you don't really need it down there. I kind of feel like I am fishing at a trout farm when I am down there. But after fishing the lower river and getting skunked :shrug: on numerouse drifts. I needed some action what a better place then just below a hatchery. OOOHH I would post pictures (proof) but I am at work.

[ 05-29-2003, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Teamfish ]

[TAILOUT]

there are loads of fish in the Sandy, both steelhead and chinook. Cedar Creek is full of fish but it is also full of people limits are the rule using good bait. :smile:

[Jbug]

i drifted from dabney to lewis & clark last night and had 2 takedowns with diver and bait but nothing stuck. the water is starting to get some color in the afternoons. the swimmers are in full force so you know the water is warming up. good luck!
jbug

[Adofish]

I agree that cedar creek is red hot. I was one of those guys there last Saturday and the fishing was early. I will be there Sunday. Shouldn't the fish be spreading out through the system or will we need to continue to bring our own rocks to stand on at the creek?

[Teamfish]

Fished Pipeline this morning and saw several springers rolling, but I wasn't able to hook up. Oh well maybe next time.

[danger]

Teamfish, were people going down below the pipline hole? What were you using? Any steelies caught?

Dan(ger)

[Teamfish]

Yeah there were people all over. I tried eggs,pranws,sandshrimp and final a spinner.

[Blue Lure Ed]

This stuff sucks and I am officially never looking at it again as of this moment. It does more harm than good. Oh, and moderaters.... Please don't delete my post. It was nice knowing some of you, the rest can go fish with the masses.

Ed graemlins/berry.gif graemlins/berry.gif

[Adofish]

Blue Lure Ed,

What is the problem?

[TAILOUT]

Bring your own rock at Cedar or get there super early if you want first water, but it doesnt really matter I was catching fish right underneath people the fish were real aggressive. I fished yesterday evening until dark on the middle river and when I was walking in 3 guys were walking out with limits It was a bangin day! It sucks that there have been alot of fishermen on the Sandy this year but fish will still be caught if employ the proper techniques.

[ampersat]

you know, i really hope that fishing on the sandy doesn't get reduced to this permanently. seems like nobody's getting fish anywhere else on the sandy but up at cedar creek. no doubt they're aggressive: they've got to be stacked in there like cordwood.

this is the first year of the new "cedar creek acclimated" run and if it's going to be like this i may never fish that river again. it's one thing to be up at rivermill fishing elbow to elbow, but at least it's bobber fishing up there. you don't get nearly the amount of tangles as you do with drift fishing.

just out of curiosity from those who've been up there: are folks crossing over to the other side of the meat hole there and trying to cast downstream? seems like every fall when i'm up there for silvers there's a half a dozen idiots over there making life hard for everyone. nothing like having a three way tangle in the middle of the river.

[doublel]

The fishing is hot at Cedar Creek because that is where they are planting them now. They used to go all the way up to Marmont Damn but won't any more. That really sucks as the ODFW gurus took about 10 miles of fishing water away from us when they started planting at Cedar Creek.

[ampersat]

hopefully, once the dam is out, they'll rethink the decision to acclimate in cedar creek and maybe run a couple of pens in some of the upper tributaries. i would volunteer to help and i'm sure others would too. it's really a shame to have them pull out so low in the river and get stacked up in that hole. it's just not sporting. yeah, they taste just as good but do you get the same sense of accomplishment?

by the way, there are some strays in the areas above cedar. i don't know that they get as far up as the dam but they do get above revenue bridge. 100 fish in a hole with fifty guys or 4 fish in a hole all to yourself. you make the call.

[fishing is life]

The whole idea of not planting up higher is to keep the hatchery from spawning with the natives above Marmot. I think we all know that. What I would like to see is them using net pens to acclimate in the lower river. Same goes for the Clack, especially for silvers. This would benefit natives and create more water to fish in the lower stretches.

[SandySteel]

If you want more information on the Sandy River acclimation plan read the first article in STS this month. It is very informative.
Folks please realize that if they continued to acclimate at the Marmot pond site that the Northwest Steelheaders built then you would get fish straying up into the wild fish sanctuary above Marmot dam once the dam comes out in 2005.
I feel our best bet is to create another acclimation site on the Bull Run at the old powerhouse site. But that is just my opinion.

[ 06-01-2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: SandySteel ]

[TAILOUT]

The fish may stack in at Cedar Creek but when I was talking the middle river it wasnt there. I know of numerous holes from Cedar down to Oxbow that fish are stacked in all you have to know is the river and all its hiding places. Ive had freinds limit above Cedar.

[ 06-01-2003, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: TAILOUT ]

[SandySteel]

I have to agree with you tailout. There are a lot of anglers at cedar creek because it is the easiest place to find fish, not hard to locate, and takes no time to research and learn the river. This is the beauty of human behavior. Most of the average fishing public won't find my favorite spots because it takes too much time to find them and too much work to get to them. One of the best kept secrets (but just too obvious to not mention here) on the Sandy is the number of wonderful drifts in Oxbow park that people oar past in their haste to get to the water that they can fish from a boat on. I am not secretive about them. If people go fishing with me I go to great lengths to show them as many good spots to fish as I can.
As for Blue Lure Ed's complaint about sharing too much information about well known fishing holes, all I can say is did you think that Cedar Creek or Revenue Bridge are well kept secrets? If you don't like seeing crowds at popular fishing spots don't go fishing there. They aren't the only place that hold fish.

[Bryan]

As for Blue Lure Ed's complaint about sharing too much information about well known fishing holes, all I can say is did you think that Cedar Creek or Revenue Bridge are well kept secrets? If you don't like seeing crowds at popular fishing spots don't go fishing there. <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I have been fishing cedar creek for many years and this is the FIRST year that summer steelhead season has looked like coho season EVERYDAY! You can't go there on a weekday without seeing twenty cars in the parking lot. Yes, this is a well known spot but something has changed this year!

The garbage has always been a problem but this year it's out of control. Another HUGE problem this year is snagging at cedar creek. Both I believe are a direct result of the amount of attention it gets from people like Bill Monroe and ifish. Is it Bill's and ifish's fault that people trash an area? No! But it is a byproduct of their platform.

What does ifish viewership require? Being able to surf the Internet! Not all who surf the Internet are vermin but these are some who are! And these are the people that leave an impressive amount of garbage and snag fish. Just like everything in life, there are a few bad apples that destroy that good of the majority. To ignore this and shout me down would be to ignore and close your eyes to the problem. I've been shouted down before about this exact same issue for people like ANDYCOHO and Bait 0` fisherman.

They claim that I don't know what ifish is all about... What ever that means. For ALL of you ney sayers, I do know the good of ifish! I just understand the problems that it creates. And again, to say that these are no problems created by ifish and Bill's platforms is to ignore reality.

I understand Blue Lure Ed's concerns. He and I have been going down there for a long time. Ed's the nicest guy in the world and has no compunction about fishing with people. It's the crap and attitude of the people down there that are getting him down. Ed believes that ifish is partially responsible for that change and I agree with him. ifish does play a role in the fishing public's choices of rivers. It is a fact that cannot be ignored. With that fact comes the responsibility of managing this resource responsibly.

By giving out exact locations of where the fish are, I believe, is to neglect that responsibility. This responsibility falls to each member of ifish as well and those in charge. Have Ed and I had days ruined by new people and their attitudes, yes. Big deal! The MUCH more important issue to me anyway, is the destruction of our rivers and environment. ifish and Bill's platform directs a vast amount of angler pressure and those people cause the problems to the river and the environment.

Unfortunately cedar creek has become exactly like eagle creek during coho season! We should all be sad over that fact. Where's the next river to become like eagle creek because of undue publicity and telling our closest 10,000 friends because we have to brag about catching fish. Something needs to be done about this. Someone needs to step up and create change at ifish. Our rivers cannot afford to be trashed when we are trying to revive salmon and steelhead. Believe me I am not an environmentalist, not by a long shot, but if I can see the problems and be moved to action then there is a BIG problem at hand.

[Jennie@ifish]

Isn't it a beautiful day? :cheers:

:smile:

I don't mean to be flip, and I'm sorry you are so upset. It just seems like old news to me.

I have heard this since time began. From newspapers, to magazines, to radio and TV shows... ever since I was a little kid.

I think that it's just the way of the world, as things grow, communication is more easily accessible, and the population increases.

I know one thing for sure. Bill Monroe doesn't let out near as much as his predecessors did!
Jen

[ 06-02-2003, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Cohoangler]

Bryan - Your frustration is understandable but your aiming it at the wrong place. Both ODFW website and the Oregonian recently mentioned Cedar Creek as a great place to land summer steelhead and spring Chinook on the Sandy River. So the situation at Cedar Creek has nothing to do with Ifish. Neither does snagging or trash. Sitting at a computer and reading the latest fishing information does not affect the quality of the fishing nor the quality of the environment. Taking action based on that information does. That’s where the problems arise.

The large number of folks at Cedar Creek has more to do with stocking policy than anything. And the problems you cite have been around a lot longer than the Internet and Ifish. If you have any doubts, you should check out the North Fork Lewis (e.g., the Meat Hole) or the Cowlitz River (Blue Creek). These areas have been overrun with anglers and trash for the past 30 years. Long before Ifish was invented. I don’t want Cedar Creek to end up the same way and neither do you. But let’s first understand why this year is different.

In the Sandy River, ODFW is confronted with a major problem regarding stock policy. Marmot Dam will be removed in the near future and they need to keep hatchery fish from straying into wild fish spawning areas. That’s a real challenge without Marmot Dam. Their solution (in part) will involve acclimation facilities in the lower river. But until those facilities are built, they’re not going to plant hatchery fish any higher than Cedar Creek. For now, the only alternative is to release them directly below the hatchery. In some cases, they’ve been trucking juveniles downstream (e.g., Dodge/Oxbow) and releasing in the lower river, but that doesn’t help much. The best solution is to build acclimation ponds in the lower river to spread out the catch and effort. In the meantime, we all need to stop the snagging, pick up the trash, be considerate of other anglers, and respect the places that we all like to fish. And we need to stop pointing fingers in the wrong direction.

If you must know, in addition to being a hard-core salmon/steelhead angler, I’m also an environmentalist. And darn proud of it!

Jennie - Your response was considerably more rational than perhaps I would have been under the same circumstances.

[Bounty Hunter]

I think you guys are jumping to conclusions about ifish. This is the first I've heard of the Cedar Creek mele' on ifish (granted I'm not focussing on Steelhead right now). I will say that I had heard about it though, because guys were bragging about it in Fisherman's yesterday so loudly that I couldn't happen to hear about all the great fishing up there, and below Revenuer's Bridge. Another factor is that the Wind River slobs were displaced this year when they gated the lower stretch of bank for just a few with keys. Those people are going to migrate to the next nearest snag-hole, and when the springers are past 7-mile, the snaggers will come to Cedar Creek. Overall fishing is getting more and more popular, and I don't think ifish is the only reason.

Having said all that, me and my 80 lb tuff line will come check it out next weekend! (JUST KIDDING! :wink: )

[choppers]

Wow, it's all about me me me. Banged fish this weekend and it wasn't at cedar. Interesting post I must say. I'm gonna go golf 9 holes instead of fish. That's two more for you guys. hehehe.

Tight lines oops, nice birdy putt.

[TAILOUT]

Im am to young to remember when the Cedar Creek hole was accessable by car, instead of having to walk down to it but I have heard stories about all the illegal activities that went on down there thats why they had to gate it off twice in two different areas. I went down there this year on a couple different occassions for winters and broodstock fish and didnt run into more than a couple people people always come out in the masses during the beginning of springer season maybe you forgot because of the dirty water we experienced for a month last year but the day before it hit I was fishing side by side with the same amount of people as this year. There have always been big crowds at Cedar Creek and I dont think I fish has changed that I talk to alot of people down there and personally have never met an Ifisher. These hatchery spring chinook are put here for 1 reason and that is to be caught not just by a few people but for all americans if you dont want to be around crowds than dont fish where crowds hang out. Me and a buddy fished sunday all by ourselves until 1100 and came out with two springers 1 in mid 20s and one well over 30 and we were able to drive within 100 yds of the hole. Cedar Creek is a well known hole and has been all over everything read the new STS, people are smart to fish here. How can it be a secret when its located directly below a hatchery. Cedar is also in range for my wireless phone and if I saw someone snagging i would be glad to call osp and Im sure there are plenty of others that would also. Finally If the hole is loved so much and is out of co9ntrol with litter someone should head aclean up effort there instead of just complaining or blaming groups. The world is fiiled with selfish people who dontcare about the big picture and are just into catching the mighty fish, we willnever be able to get rid of them, we can only protect our resource the best we can. just my .02.

[bigeddy]

I think it is well accepted that places such as cedar, pipeline, garbage hole, revenue,.... are well known. It is not being contested that they are 'secret' spots, i doubt anyone would argue that. The problem that blue lure and brian have, and i am in agreement with, is that fish have seem to become a commodity for many. You could know all of the 'great' holes to fish on a river but unless you here that some spot is 'red hot' your not going to go there. The element of adventure and sport of fishing has been stripped away when people can sit down at a computer for 5 minutes and divulge 'the hottest spot' and best setup all for their own self actualization.

This board, for many, has become not a forum for teaching and sharing, as many will inevitably aruge that it is, but another form of bragging. What better way to show a couple million people how great a fisherman you are than to post a couple pictures and a title like "we really banged them today at cedar creek. Thats great, we're all happy for you. Why do i view this site you ask. So i know which places not to go fish.

When making a post it seems that some respect should be given to the other people that fish the hole as well as the additional burden you will place on the resource when a couple million here that a particular place is just 'red hot'.

Thankfully there are those that don't mind standing shoulder to shoulder, hand in hand just to catch a fish. This truly epitomizes the sport of fishing and what it really all is about. Forget being outside, away from people, on the river because when you look at it cedar creek is really like a fishbowl with people lining the bank slinging golf-ball sized gobs of eggs at them. I think that the fish should continue to be acclimated at cedar and those that want to get out there and really do it. go for it. Ya'll can have them. THe more people up at cedar the less on the rest of the river.

bigeddy

[rob allen]

Thats the problem with terminal fisheries, they seem to always end up the same way. I am totally against the idea of acclimation because it keeps hatchery fish in the river!!! They need to be acclimated to the hatchery site so that the fish go back to the hatchery!!!
I don't know about I fish being the cause of it however I'd say that in this day and age if there are fish to be easily harvested in a given fishery people will find out and it will be overrun by people who don't care about other people or respect the resourse. You see that happen on every salmon river every fall.

Make the fish go back to the hatchery then recycle them because terminal fisheries destroy the fishing experience just as mentioned by a couple people in this thread. Also by acclimating this way it takes opportunity away from the majority of anglers and gives it to a very small group of people, many of which wouldn't buy a license if they couldn't go be a slob and still limit out. This is NOT what our fish and wildlife departments should be promoting as sport fishing.
Thats just my opinion...

[RichH]

Is it just me or does it seem that the people that contribute the least complain the most?

I agree that there are some places that should never be mentioned on the net. They are typically places that don't see a lot of pressure because they simply can't take it. On the other hand, hatchery fish are put in a river for people to catch. If folks want to pack in elbow to elbow and fish for them, have a great time. Thats what they are there for.

I really don't understand the "all for me" mentality that I see displayed here. :shrug:

If you don't want to fish with the crowds, don't. I find that to be a simple solution.

[Jimmy Carl Black]

Good post tailout. I agree completely. Would you mind posting detailed instructions to the hole where you got the 2 springers?

In all seriosness now, if there are mostly ifishers at Cedar Creek, then we should be able to do something about the trash/snagging/etc.
Right?

[Bryan]

I have to say that a few months ago I was against the proposed idea of adding the hatchery fish into Bull Run river instead of at Cedar Creek! Today after seeing 5 DOZEN cars in the parking lot at the hatchery I am all in favor of the idea. This is worse than coho season down there and still we get shouted down by people saying all we do is complain!

The most pathetic part about all of this is, no one seems too concerned that cedar creek has become eagle creek during coho season. The only thing I can think of, that might be a little worse than that is if we were to strip mine the area. ifish is THE public forum to talk about fishing and fishing issues. SO to people like Rich H, I would argue that we are contrubuting to the fishing conversation. It's too bad that we are tagged as complainers when we are trying to protect a beautiful area from destruction and abuse.
bryan

[bigeddy]

I feel that putting the hatchery fish in the Bull Run might quite possibly be one of the worst ideas for Sandy river management I have heard in some time. Will not the same crowds that overrun cedar creek simply redirect their fishing efforts to the bull run? While I recognize the impact huge crowds are having on cedar creek I cannot understand how it would be beneficial to bring the same problems to a much smaller tributary that would have a hard time supporting half the number of people that go down to cedar.

It seems typical that since we've already created an overcrowding, litter, errosion, etc problem at cedar we'll just leave it and recreate the problem somewhere else. Since the decision has already been made to acclimate springers at cedar creek and the area has already been affected by the increased number of people using the area I see no reason to make changes now.

I just assume let those who want to, go down to cedar creek and fish shoulder to shoulder for hatchery fish. Let em have it, the damage to the area has already been done and there is nothing to be gained by brining all of these problems of hathcery fish to a less disturbed area. Since cedar creek is overrun, lets make bull run like eagle creek during coho season. Very logical... This consumptionist idea that we can consume all of the resources in one area and shift our area of focus in order to fix the problem must change. THe one thing worse than the destruction and abuse of one area is to move it to another for our percieved benefit.

While it may better serve fishermen to move the acclimation site, it is neither beneficial to the environment nor effective in combatting the problem of overcrowding. After all people will follow the fish without a thought for what is truly good for the river or forest.

[Bounty Hunter]

I would hope that overcrowding the fisherman is the last thing that is considered as part of the Sandy river management process.

[Chromatic]

So much to say on this, but in deference to all the good comments, here's my piece:

If you want to do something for the resource, make a direct impact, help clean up around the river, either @ Cedar Creek or wherever else you fish on the Sandy (or anywhere else). each time you go out. Bring a bag for garbage, or better yet, two; one for the garbage and the other can be for fishing line that can be recycled @ Joe's or Fisherman's. Cleaning up after other polluting losers is both satisfying and maddening, but no, you are not enabling by cleaning up their crap. You're helping the river and our fish. If you do this already, I want to say 'thank you' for making my fishing experience that much cleaner.

Also, think about joining your local chapter of Northwest Steelheaders and getting involved with anything from navigability rights to restoration or acclimation projects to river clean-ups. Another great network of like-minded river stewards who want our fisheries to be the best they can be.

Posting your/my two cents is satisfying, but so is doing something that leads to ACTION.

Ok, I'm off the soapbox.

[ampersat]

the idea of also acclimating fish in bull run isn't to simply move the impact, it's to offer opportunities in other places in the river system. the folks who fish at cedar will probably continue to fish there because of the reasons mentioned before. this would give other anglers an opportunity to get away from this crowd.

i can see why the plan is to acclimate lower in the river too. these fish seem to be bolting to their destination and not offering much in the way of fishing opportunities in the lower river. this may be due to changes in the riverbed or the switch to broodstock production. acclimate some fish lower = better fishing lower = spreading out the fishing pressure.

[SandySteel]

The acclimation on Bull Run would not be all of the acclimation. The acclimation would be split with Cedar Creek.
Crowding is, I think a very low priority when it comes to chosing acclimation sites on the Sandy. This isn't about exporting a problem to reduce crowded fishing conditions in any particular spot The first priority is reducing stray rates into the upriver wild fish sanctuary.
Why acclimate in the first place? If we don't keep fish out of the upriver sanctuary (currently protected by Marmot dam) hatchery fish will be eliminated completely on the Sandy.
The difficulty we have is finding a site that 1) has adequate flows to attract fish out of the main stem to keep them from straying 2) is high enough in the system to provide a wide number of anglers opportunities to catch the fish.
Beaver creek, Gordon Creek, and Buck Creek are all too low and don't have adequate facilities or flows at the right times to facilitate an acclimation pond.
The natural tributaries are Bull Run and Cedar Creek.
I am a little skeptical about Big Eddy's motivations for opposing the acclimation on Bull Run. His primary concern is overcrowding. Yet other priorities are the reasons for putting the acclimation pond there. Could the main reason he doesn't want acclimation on Bull Run is he wants to keep angling pressure off of his favorite fishing spot? Perhaps he is just concerned with the natural beauty and keeping it in its pristine condition. Either way I don't see using these as reasons for altering the fish management in the river. Keep in mind that the fish in the Bull Run currently are strays that smell the Sandy river water that is diverted at Marmot dam into Roslyn lake and down into the Bull run. They reach the face of the powerhouse and stop there and will likely go away if acclimation is done with tributary water.

Another advantage to acclimating with Bull run water is the possibility of creating a spawning population in the river. Access to the Bull Run is limited to a short span from Dodge Park up to the bridge. Fish could continue up into the Bull Run and spawn there without impacting wild fish and possibly seed currently unused spawning habitat.

The disadvantage with acclimating only at Cedar Creek is the current "all the eggs in one basket" situation. It narrows the fish management tools at hand for making the wild broodstock program a success and it increases the risks to the runs. Imagine what would happen if you had a very low water year and had a disease outbreak with your entire broodstock year class stacked up in a few holes below Cedar Creek. Reducing overcrowding of anglers is the least of our worries.

Also, this weekend the Sandy River Chapter of Northwest Steelheaders is putting on an impromptu river cleanup at Cedar Creek. If you really care about fishing this section of the river show up and help out.