WDFW up to no good again in the CR

[Troller]

I wish they wouldnt waste my money this way. Maybe next time the will contract with a tangle net charter or one of those deep sea nets thats miles long . So they can look for another way to ruin the fishing.

http://www.wa.gov/WDFW/do/newreal/apr0803a.htm

[ 04-10-2003, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: troller ]

[OceanBlue]

Huh? Perhaps you'd prefer that gillnetting be allowed to continue? :shrug: Personally, I'm happy to see them investigating more selective/less harmful harvest methods.

[BlueWater]

I am with P.M. on this. We have to look at other ways of harvest to satisfy both fisheries of sport and commercial. I hope some good info comes of this.


BlueWater.

[CrazyFish]

I'm with P.M. on this one. :grin:

Without research being done they won't and can't find other ways. graemlins/icon_argue.gif

Let's not forget ALL of the other items that have come from expensive research. How do you think they figured out to protect the native salmon runs and install hatcherys? Research is also how they come up with harvesting limits so that our areas aren't over fished (sometimes a little late I'll agree).

I could go on and on and on but I think that you get the point here.

At least they chartered the boat. They could have found it a good exuse to buy a new one. :laugh:

[Pilar]

Does anyone know the specific nature of the study?

[Troller]

Seems everyone here is assuming the study is to change fishing practices for the better. PERHAPS they are looking to see about giving them more opportunities to the commercial fisherman to get more fish. Please dont jump to conclusions that I somehow support gillnetting. Everyyear in washington for example the shrimp season the commercials get 80% of the catch. thats 20% left between us sporties and the indians. The WDFW has an agenda and that is to keep commercials fisherman going at what ever the cost to the rest of us.

[OceanBlue]

Did anyone read the WDFW notice? It sure sounds like alternate fishing methods to me.

Also, remember that because Oregon and WA share these waters, the CRC has to agree on the rules.

I'd prefer to believe that the motives are in favor of the fish until proven otherwise. Maybe that's naive, but I gotta believe that it doesn't behoove us to automatically assume that whatever they do, it's to the sporties detriment.

Knock that boulder-sized chip off your shoulders, guys and let's figure out how to work TOGETHER with the commercials and the agencies. After all, what's good for the fish is ultimately good for all of us, right?

[Troller]

My problem is couldnt their be a better way than to use a commercial vessel to harvest fish for thier research. Why not have done this when the the commercials were fishing allready and going over there quota. In this research whos alotment do these fish come from . We have allready been cut down because of the over fishing by the commercials. Actually it wasnt overfishing If I have my facts straight they actually harvested fewer than the 10,000 they could have because of some great research that now they think they can predict the runs. Quality research That told them that the wild fish wouldnt be in the river around the time they fished. So they actually overharvested wild fish not hatchery. I will knock the chip off my shoulder when things get evened out . Working together doesnt allways get solutions. They cannot have a fishery that does not allow for the protection of our wild stocks. I dont believe they can have both wild fish and commercial fishing . Until the wild fish are in full recovery and then only in a limited and controled fishery. Unless they want to make commercial fisherman use barbless hooks on a single pole it wont work. Sorry but Yeah chip on my shoulder yep and a big one. :cheers:

[STGRule]

Troller: Since a purse seine will not kill any fish, it doesn't come out of anybodies allotment.

Other Topic (http://www.ifish.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=023571)

This was discussed earlier.

[fishjunky 2002]

It's all a smoke screen, the Governor is like the rest of us His Honor wants some fresh springer for the barbie :grin: :tongue: :grin:

[OceanBlue]

I think we'd better be careful about where we chuck those stones. How many rec. fishers vs. how many commercials? And what percentage of those rec fishers are as morally and ethically responsible about how they release fish? I can bet what the percentage is on this board, but we're not only talking about ifishers here folks.

[OldRedSled]

STG

you better check you facts man. I have personally seen Purse Sein Nets in action and there by-catch mortality rates approach 100%. The mechanics of the net basically CRUSH all the catch under the weight of the net and the Catch. Furthermore the purse seign nets catch everything within there perimiter (unless it can jump over the top). So Walleye, sturgon, logs...ect will end up at the bottom of the sein.

I suguesst you do a little more research about those type's of nets. But here is a little factoid to get you started: Puse sein netting practice in Off shore Tuna Fishing had such a extreme mortaility rate that Washington actually BANNED ALL TUNA caught in puse-sein nets. That decision held until it was overturned by the WTO.

there so bad even congress decided to ban them (and they aint environmental hippes by any means)

ORS

[STGRule]

ORS: Not only did the research. USED them in the Willamette. NO mortality, because we didn't want any. Its all in the technique.

[AuntyM]

STGRule,

Do you have any insight to share on what the differences are? I am unable to visualize a way that makes purse seining better than say... a fish trap.

I have seen purse seiners in operation in Puget Sound. The weight of the net and that of other fish can cause all manner of damage.

[boater]

i personaly hope its a total failure

[OldRedSled]

I think highliner just closed the book on this debate.. any one want to argue with him?...... proably not

Thank you for sharing your knowledge :cheers:

it is nice to hear from someone who has experence in this area

graemlins/applause.gif graemlins/applause.gif graemlins/applause.gif graemlins/applause.gif

ORS

[STGRule]

Okay ORS, I'll take you up on that one.
You cannot strap a "money bag" and bring it on board without crushing fish. IT CANNOT BE DONE PERIOD! <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">You are absolutely right. Which is why the net is NOT brought aboard the boat.

After the seine is closed and pursed(the bottom of the net is closed) most of the net is brought aboard. As you get to the last 1/4 or so of the net in the water the fish become concentrated. It would be at this point that each fish would have to be handled individually and carefully. They would have to be netted one at a time to minimize mortality. The desired species kept the others released. <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Yep, that is exactly how it is done.

With any net fishery there will be bi-catch mortality. <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">The same can and is said about sport fisheries. There will ALWAYS be a handling mortality.
Fisheries research has used commercial fishing gear to catch study species since there has been fisheries research. You can use it any way you want for the desired effect. Don't want to kill everything? Then use the gear so you don't. I use longlines, gillnets, purse seines, electrofishers, and beach seines and have done it for 18 years and just about year-round. Does that make what I say any more believable to you? We have a very low mortality rate. I won't lie and say we never kill anything but as an example, we handle 2,000 to about 5,000 sturgeon a year during our research with white sturgeon. We use longlines. We have killed two sturgeon. Using gillnets, for the last 3 years for capturing green sturgeon, we have killed one. Using purse seines on the Willamette I don't recall any mortalities. I would have to check the data to be sure but I don't remember any.

It is all in how you use the tool. If you don't want to kill everything you don't have to. I'm guessing that given a choice of no commercial fishing and some, highly regulated fishing, they will choose the latter. If they can't, they probably won't fish at all.

[STGRule]

Go to the link on my 10:50 post. UglyGreen has the exact technique and process with an example of non-lethal uses.

[Highliner]

I have 18 seasons on seiners in SE Alaskas so I feel qualified to make this statement. Although it is possible to full or half-purse salmon and steelhead in the CR with little mortality it would take massive amounts time and effort. You cannot strap a "money bag" and bring it on board without crushing fish. IT CANNOT BE DONE PERIOD! Salmon and steelhead will still become tangled and "gilled" in a purse seine. The only way that I can see to effectively(not counting gilled fish) fish a selective fishery with a purse seine is to do the following:
After the seine is closed and pursed(the bottom of the net is closed) most of the net is brought aboard. As you get to the last 1/4 or so of the net in the water the fish become concentrated. It would be at this point that each fish would have to be handled individually and carefully. They would have to be netted one at a time to minimize mortality. The desired species kept the others released. Do the trollers take time and care needed to protect bi-catch species...NO! Do the gillnetters...NO! Do the tangle net fisherman...NO! Will the purse seiners....NO! The money bags will be strapped, hauled aboard, and dumped. The fish will be sorted by species. The legal fish go in the box, the dead ones go overboard! With any net fishery there will be bi-catch mortality.

[boater]

hopefully it will be a total failure.

[fishgirl]

Thank you STGRule! graemlins/applause.gif

[Steelie Ben]

StgRule, you net for research not profit correct? To these commercial guys time is money and I really doubt that they will net each individual fish. I could be wrong and hopefully I am but I just have one question. How are we gonna police the commercials if they switch? I know that we had some volenteer policing on the tangle net fishery last year but I heard nothing about it this year. I also heard that the tangle netters were not following the revival proceedure correctly from more than a couple people and that many of the so called "Revived fish" sank directly to the bottom. Correct me if I am wrong but when money is involved things change from "By the book" to "Make a quick buck." I truely do hope that this research they are doing brings about some change for the better since it doesn't look like they are gonna take the nets out of the river anytime soon. Just my meager .02
SB

[STGRule]

Steelie Ben: You may very well be right. It will take having to re-learn how to handle fish and it may not work out. I believe that WDFW is just testing this gear as a research tool. We are all just speculating about its worth as a commercial gear in the Columbia.