Sportfishing means business!

[Straydog]

Now if we can just get the support of the Tillamook Co. Commisioners....

Another way of looking at forest productivity. (http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/104514131639051.xml)

[ 02-13-2003, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[GutshotApe]

SD - A thought that occurred to me the other day is there is one major difference between the two "sides" in the timber vs. environment debate.

People involved in forest management and tree farming believe they are doing good, useful work and are willing to compromise so we can "have our cake and eat it, too". We can have forestry, fisheries, wildlife, etc...........it used to be known as Multiple Use.........and anyone who thinks the timber industry hasn't compromised....and been compromised, hasn't been paying attention for the last 25 years.

But any use is anathema to many urban enviro preservationists. The various forest preservation groups want to eliminate ALL forest management.......they want to eliminate ALL farming in the Klamath basin.......and after that, they will start on all other farming, mining, ranching, etc......and if you dig down deep enough, you will find the groups you may be tempted to ally yourself with are also opposed to animal exploitation (read PETA) and sport fishing.

[Straydog]

GSA,

I can't argue that there aren't people that are very extreme on both "sides" of the argument.

However, I don't see the connection of that fact to this topic.

Can you help me make the jump from what this group is proposing to the extreme scenarios that you shared? :whazzup:

BTW, please know that just like the timber industry, Sportfishing has compromised and been compromised as well. Shall we compare regulations from the '70's or 80's to regulations imposed today?

I guess we are all victims of extremism on one hand or the other.

[ 02-13-2003, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[GutshotApe]

Isn't taking HALF of the Tillamook State Forest out of production a little extreme?........don't forget these lands are already highly regulated and logging is restricted to prevent other resource damage. Unfortunately, if they win, this is only the beginning. After locking up the first 50% it will be only a matter of time until the rest will be nickle & dimed away, too. And the new coalition won't stop there - next will be the Clatsop State Forest, the Elliott State Forest and all other state forest lands scattered around western Oregon......then, having stopped all state and federal land mgmt the private lands will be next.

The enviros are either going to succeed in turning all of Oregon & Washington (outside the UGBs) into parks.......or reactionary conservative forces will trigger a backlash like we haven't yet seen. :shocked:

We need to find a middle ground - but the groups behind this lawsuit, and most others like them, don't believe in compromise. They are radical extremists whose "end justifies the means". :depressed:

[Straydog]

GSA,

I strongly beg to differ.

NSIA is indeed into compromise. We have shown this repeatidly. We are NOT radical extremists. You have never seen one of us resort to any violence or vandalism. I take offense to your associating us with those that do those things. An apology is in order.

I can't speak for the Tillamook Guides. Most of them are on this site from time to time, perhaps they can speak to your accusations.

Once again I ask GSA, more fact, less rhetoric, please!

[ 02-13-2003, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[GutshotApe]

Originally posted by Straydog:
Now if we can just get the support of the Tillamook Co. Commisioners....<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Well, then who is the "we" you referred to? :whazzup:

[Re:Play]

GSA- I think your post is an accurate description of what has been going on for the last 25 years in the natural resource arena.

You can go way back in history about 150 years ago and find that about 1,000,000 acres around what is now the Siuslaw National Forest was burned in a HUGE fire. Go forward to the Tillamook fires in the 30's when over 250,000 acres of large old growth forest burned, some of it 3 times.

There was nothing done in the 1800's to reforest, worry about erosion, etc. On Tillamook Burn, you could not have a situation that would create more erosion, sediment, and increase the water temp. more than burning a several watersheds multiple times.
But, there has been some pretty fair fishing in the Bay since.

Forests and ecosystems are not stable. While we can and do things that change them not all our actions are detrimental. Taking all or none of any resource, timber, fish, farm land, water, etc, is a very poor answer.

Cutting all the trees is an absolutely unacceptable answer, but so is cutting none of them anywhere. It gets down to what you do and how you do it. Last time I checked, I did not clearcut my tomatoes, selectively harvest my wheat field, or try to farm/harvest the creek above my house that I got my drinking water out of. :shrug:

[Straydog]

GSA,

Did you not read the article before posting your rhetoric??

From the Oregonian article of 2-13-03:
The forest coalition went to great lengths to argue that greater forest protections would help area communities, not harm them. Businesses including the Northwest Sportfishing Industry Association, Tillamook Guides Association, restaurants, markets and art galleries have signed onto the plan.

I take "signing on" as being "behind" something....... perhaps we have an issue of definitions going on. Is is really is????? :whazzup:

[ 02-13-2003, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[GutshotApe]

Originally posted by Re:Play:
Forests and ecosystems are not stable. While we can and do things that change them not all our actions are detrimental. [/QB]<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Truer words were never spoken (or posted)!

One unfortunate result of 25 years of environmentalism is that many people now believe the natural state of a forest is Old Growth....and that anything else is destruction or a diminution of natural processes....or something......In our country everyone gets to have an opinion and, even scarier :shocked: , everyone (unless self-disqualified) gets to vote. Most people live in urban settings and are easily swayed by the "ends justify the means" crowd into beliefs that just aren't based on the real, natural world.

I used to get really worked up by the rampant public ignorance and stupidity about natural resource issues. But, now that I've made my pile, such as it is, I'm retired. Things don't bother me as much these days. :cool: Go ahead, lock it all up.

Gee, the bloom kind of seems to be off the high-tech rose these days. Maybe a few hundred thousand new Oregonians who came here to work in the silicon forest (and many of whom oppose forest mgmt) will go away and we can get back to utilizing our basic resource.....the resource that gives the northwest its economic leg up in the world.........the most useful species of trees growing on the best forest soils in the world.

Or will Oregon become a total welfare state* dependent on federal handouts? :whazzup:

* Oh yes, there will be tourists here to catch our fish and toss us a few bones! Oh, the joy!