Why Hire A Guide?? [Archive]

Gun Rod Bow

02-12-2003, 06:48 PM

I asked myself this after the trip I just took with Dave Johnson on the Clack. On the post that Ugly Green (my guest) made with pics of our trip, someone mentioned something about a statement of "never hiring a guide".

After a long day, I will ruminate over an adult beverage.

I am well outfitted with a drift boat, sled and enough gear to be quite nicely outfitted if I chose to guide for a living. I enjoy taking people out and if memory serves, got 9 people "their first salmon" last year. Caught (a bunch) of salmon, enjoyed (almost) every minute on the water.

I can catch fish, I would put my numbers up against anyones. Sure, a few others may catch more fish, but I have fished along side many of the Northwests top guides on the Columbia, Willamette, T-Bay, etc.... and I can hold my own. They undoubtedly catch more fish in a year, but I have had my days when...you know.

So why hire a guide.

There seems to be a stigma attached...if you go with a guide...you can't catch them on your own.

Well, as reported, I haven't had my sled/DB out without a salmon, steelhead (or even a nasty old sturgon) to show for the effort in a long time.

I can run rivers, even ones I've never been on proficiently. Have done quite a bit of that.

What separates those of us with "day jobs" from people who "fish for a living"? Is it the big things? No, at this level, I'm sure it's the little things. And they have more experience fishing than my lifestyle will allow. Some fine tuning would undoubtedly improve my odds.

Do I want to "steal their spots"? No, if I really wanted to do that, I could follow them around for free. I'd never do that. I have ALWAYS given guides even more leeway than other fisherman, out of respect, when deserved.

Is it a good way to learn water/methods? You bet! All guides seem to specialize in different methods. I would have 0 interest in steelheading with plugs, divers or waiting around for a fish to be handed off.

One thing I noticed, after an awesome day on the water with friends (one old/one new) and Dave, a guy I would enjoy spending a day with fishing or not, I was rested and happy. I noted how different I felt compared to when I get up early, prepare bait, tie leaders, fuel the boat, check levels, get reports, search the water, run the boat, worry about where to find fish, clean the boat...it was truly relaxing and very enjoyable.

Would I do it again? I booked a coast trip today!! ( on a river I'd like to learn more about)

Will I catch more fish now? Perhaps. Was it a good deal? Without any doubt.

Where else can you spend a day, doing what you love, with someone who is a true profesional, for less than the cost a two really good seats to a Blazer game...or one G Loomis rod?

I can see this in my future 2-4 times a year. Should I feel somehow sheepish because I fished with a guide :hoboy: :sleep:

Thanks Dave,

I really enjoyed it!!

BrionLutz

02-12-2003, 07:23 PM

GunRodBow,

The best reason I heard for hiring a guide was you can spend 20 years learning how to fish or fish with someone who's been doing it for 20 years.

Being new to Oregon fishing, my reasons for hiring a guide were to get up to speed on salmon, walleye and bass fishing on the Columbia.

I think I've run up the learning curve pretty quick, filled my salmon tag last year, my 2nd year of fishing here.

I'll continue to fish with the guides. There's still a LOT to learn...and the sneaky devils don't show you everything the first time out <grin>. I booked about 10 trips at the Sportsman's show.

And different guides fish differently. Jack Glass is a favorite because he likes to fish the way I do...trolling, no bait if possible and he concentrates on the Columbia around the Sandy area.

Julie Cates, Larry Page and Dennis Stewart are the other guides I use and they use bait but they fish in areas where bait rules...Astoria, Tillamook, Nehalem....though, interestingly, I've caught fish with all them on just lures and I've caught fish with Jack on bait.

Sign of a good guide to me is one who tries different things and different places until they find what's working.

Plus for fishing those remote (to me) areas, I don't have to trailer my boat down at o-dark thirty, fool with the bait etc. and the guides will have the up to date local knowledge.

When friends visit, I like to go take them out with a guide as it ups their chances of catching fish even though each time we've gone on my boat, we got fish...I've got them fooled...they think I know what I'm doing.

Going with the guides has worked great. I've got my buddy's kids from Utah pretty well hooked on fishing in NW.

Only problem is they think you're supposed to limit out every time you go out...spoiled critters.

Plus...I have a lot of fun...catch fish, learn new stuff...hang out with some great folks.

Brion

GasJockey

02-12-2003, 07:24 PM

Glad to hear you had such a great time w/ Dave. I am heading out with him next Friday for the first time. I don't pretend to be a great fisherman, but I go at least once a week and try to get out more (I have two young daughters that require my attention most the time.) I look at a guided trip and see two things: 1) A mini vacation away from the loud noise of the city, people talking on their cell phones, and rude people in general. 2) It's way cheaper than going out, buying a boat, learning a river, paying for insurance, storage and maintanance, and dealing with the mess of cleaning it up and putting it away at the end of a day.

Let's see... new boat $250 a month, fuel (soon to be $2 gal.), time on the water away from family and work to learn where the fish are on a consistant basis, and then there's my wife who feels that if I'm fishing, she should be shopping! :shocked:

Over all, I think I'm money ahead to go out with a guide who more likely than not will get me into the fish, and show me a great day on the water. And all of that for less than one months boat payment. (By the way, I own two boats and love them both, but can't justify the money I spent/spend on them.) :cheers:

Anyway, just my .02.

Good luck on the water.

Trent

Tilla

02-12-2003, 07:26 PM

Absolutely nothing wrong with hiring a guide. An opportunity to learn and relax without all the details that GRB mentioned hanging over your head, what a nice vacation. :grin:

Small Fry

02-12-2003, 07:26 PM

I book at least one trip per year. I try and go places I want to learn more about and to learn new methods to improve my own ability to catch more fish.

The trip I went on yesterday was a first for me. I have never been steelhead fishing with a guide. I learned that I have been missing a lot of good water that hold fish. I have always just drifted by many of the holes we fished yesterday. This was the first time jig fishing. I like it.

Beside when I got home I didn't have to clean the boat sort out the gear strighten everything before I could sit down and relax.

Yesterday was a great day very relaxing for both my wife and I.

just my 2cent

fishchaser

02-12-2003, 07:32 PM

I think hiring a guide is for information and technical advice.

Be careful though you might have to FREEZE with a guide...LOL :grin:

GutshotApe

02-12-2003, 07:49 PM

Rationalize using guides all you want but, in my opinion, using guides cheapens and demeans the sport and devalues the fish or game taken.

Not saying you can't learn a lot from guides.....and not saying it isn't fun and enjoyable to be on the river with good people enjoying our outdoors. But the sense of accomplishment one gains from catching a salmon or shooting an elk on his own, having learned the ropes and paid the dues over time, must be far greater and the whole experience so much more meaningful than taking the shortcut of hiring a guide.

The old travel adage "Half the fun is getting there" applies to fishing & hunting.......except its probably more like "90% of the fun is getting there on your own without cheating". To me, hiring a guide is a form of cheating and I'll never hire a guide :wink:

BrionLutz

02-12-2003, 08:07 PM

Gutshot,

Rationalize using guides all you want but, in my opinion, using guides cheapens and demeans the sport and devalues the fish or game taken.
Hmm...who's doing the rationalizing <grin>.

You can do as little or as much as you want with the guide...at least the ones I go out with...that's one of the reasons I go.

I get a lot of satisfaction learning how to rig the hooks, the lures, the bait, how to set it in the water, how to wait (or not) for the fish,

The best comment I had out fishing with one of the guides was from one of the kids after fighting and bringing to the boat, a 7', 150 lb sturgeon. An epic battle...I thought I was in the Hemingway movie "Islands in the Stream.

The kid's comment:

"And I did it all myself!"

And he did. The guide let him rig the bait, cast it out, watch the tip, hook the fish and fight it.

Doesn't get any better than that....oops...I must be rationalizing agin <grin>.

Brion

[ 02-12-2003, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: BrionLutz ]

GutshotApe

02-12-2003, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by BrionLutz:
"And I did it all myself!"

And he did. No, he didn't. :wink:

crabbait

02-12-2003, 08:16 PM

GSA also probably believes that indoor plumbing somehow "cheapens the experience". Nothing like a Sears catalog and a shovel on a brisk morning! :grin:

Uncle Roman

02-12-2003, 08:21 PM

If you don't like guides don't hire them.....Be a stud all by yourself and a legend in your own mind! Me? I'd book a lot more trips with guides if I had the coin.

AnglersRental

02-12-2003, 08:37 PM

GRB... well put, I had the same thoughts.

I personally have never been on a guided trip before yesterday (in Oregon). I don't think I have ever put down guides, but have had some of the same thoughts of GSA in the past.

I was susprised by how little new stuff I learned. I already knew all the spots we fished plus a few others.

I knew the technique we used, but not the application of it, as I dont have the proper boat (finished) yet.

I use similar tackle and bait on a regular basis.

I am normally the one running the boat and the one doing the least amount of fishing, being on the other end was nice for a change.

Sell all the fishing junk I have now would buy a lot of guided trips, but I think not.

Hmmmm.... food for thought.

I did really enjoy the company, that was the best part of the trip for me. And not having the pressure of being the one responsible for getting everyone else into fish. Thats what made it relaxing.

I'm probably too cheap to go on a lot of guided trips, but I will book one or two in the future. My wife/kids/parents always complain about not knowing what to get me for christmas/birthday/etc... maybe ill drop a few hints.

UG

Amerman

02-12-2003, 09:17 PM

Well said guys. I would like to say though that anyone that thinks people who hire guides can't fish is way off. I have at least three regular clients that I would put out there against most anyone ( including most guides). They fish with a guide because they like to be able to take other people with them and be able to relax and not be the one worrying about their guest, the boat and all the other stuff. Along with all the other things GRB added.

GSA Wouldn't reading the helpful hints on this site be taking away from that experience too? graemlins/1zhelp.gif

skrimmy

02-12-2003, 09:22 PM

GRB, Very well worded, I couldn't agree more.
graemlins/applause.gif graemlins/applause.gif

BrionLutz

02-12-2003, 09:29 PM

Crabbait,

Originally posted:GSA also probably believes that indoor plumbing somehow "cheapens the experience". That did it! You owe me a chair...which I fell out of <grin>.

Brion

boater

02-12-2003, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by GutshotApe:
Rationalize using guides all you want but, in my opinion, using guides cheapens and demeans the sport and devalues the fish or game taken.

Not saying you can't learn a lot from guides.....and not saying it isn't fun and enjoyable to be on the river with good people enjoying our outdoors. But the sense of accomplishment one gains from catching a salmon or shooting an elk on his own, having learned the ropes and paid the dues over time, must be far greater and the whole experience so much more meaningful than taking the shortcut of hiring a guide.

The old travel adage "Half the fun is getting there" applies to fishing & hunting.......except its probably more like "90% of the fun is getting there on your own without cheating". To me, hiring a guide is a form of cheating and I'll never hire a guide :wink: :cheers:

BrionLutz

02-12-2003, 09:43 PM

Gutshot,

Originally posted: <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by BrionLutz:
"And I did it all myself!" And he did. No, he didn't. <hr /></blockquote>Oh really?

What didn't the kid do...smelt the aluminum for the boat <grin>.

Brion

Sturgeon Tom

02-12-2003, 09:44 PM

GRB said it all. I agree with everthing he said. I and a friend have a tidewater trip with Scott booked just because I have never done it.
GSA Are you going to tell us you have never asked anyone how do do anything? You have never gotten a tip off this board? We all learn from others and if its with a guide that does not cheapen it.
st
Crabbit my wife cracked up over your post. :laugh:

Beer Waggin

02-12-2003, 09:49 PM

Well I would consider myself a bull headed fellow. I have the sleds, I have the gear and I have some of the know how. I catch my far share of fish for the amount of time I put on the water and I do like doing it on my own, but recently I've changed my thinking.
I'm a firm believer that guides can help you catch more fish. Just the same as if your Grandpa, father or friend showed you the techniques, your just paying for it with cash instead of mowing the lawn or painting the house.
My first guided trip will be in two weeks and I can't wait! :grin:

I will say there is one heck a sense of fulfillment when you do it yourself, or when you get people into fish. It's all fun as far as I'm concerned.

I do agree with part of what $$jockey says (it's not gas anymore, its cash!). If I took all of the money I've spent on boats, cash (gas), gear, bait and everything else and spent it on guides I would have caught more fish, but I wouldn't have anything but pictures and memories. Which aren't that bad, but having all the gear allows me to do it anytime I want to, rather than scheduling a trip.

GutshotApe

02-12-2003, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by Amerman:
GSA Wouldn't reading the helpful hints on this site be taking away from that experience too? graemlins/1zhelp.gif So far, there haven't been that many helpful hints or tips on ifish that I didn't already know....having already learned most of 'em the hard way :wink: .

Yup, hiring a guide is a lot more efficient way of catching fish - and more economical - than learning how to do it by yourself and/or with your friends, acquiring the gear, tackle, pickups, boats, and especially the knowledge & lore involved.

But, if you want efficiency and instant gratification, why fool around with sport gear? Why not get a commercial license and gillnet the fish. Or go to a fish farm and pay by the pound to reel 'em in where the limit is guaranteed? :whazzup:

You need to draw the line somewhere and I draw it at paying someone to take me fishing or hunting. And I have no problem with a reasonable number of professional, ethical guides.....the problem is when the situation gets completely out of hand i.e. so many guides with their dudes on the lower Rogue River & bay in August/Sept. that fishing there isn't fun anymore. :depressed:

What guides are selling is easy access to the fish and the expertise to catch them. It used to be a lot more fun when the people fishing were your neighbors and the geeks gawking from the bridge and highway were the tourists. Now, its the other way around. graemlins/1zhelp.gif

BrionLutz

02-12-2003, 10:31 PM

Gutshot,

So far, there haven't been that many helpful hints or tips on ifish that I didn't already know....having already learned most of 'em the hard way Unless you sprang full blown from the head of Zeus with your Kwikfish, filet, stretchy string, Penn reel and Loomis rod and jar of Amerman eggs...you learned from someone else or...Yikes...purchased it.

How cheap...how shabby...but that's life <grin>.

Actually that's what makes it fun...nothing was cooler than to watch the kid take everything he was taught...put it together himself and then live out a Hemingway novel.

Brion

Trick

02-12-2003, 10:41 PM

Hmmm....I guess I went through the school of hard knocks learning how to fish. Up until last year, I had never bought a fishing trip. I went bottom fishing on a charter for three reasons.

1) Freinds had invited me.
2) I've never bottom fished. Had wanted too.
3) I neither own or can afford a sea-going vessel.

I didn't feel cheapened by the experience, unless you count the biscuits and gravy I tossed into the sea that day? :rolleyes:

I can stuff my deep freeze with fish using my limited methods year after year, but I've considered hiring guides the last couple years to just see new techniques and water. It isn't always about catching fish.

I like to see new residents getting into sportfishing. There is power in numbers and if we ever intend to destroy gillnetting we will need the votes.

Gun Rod Bow

02-12-2003, 11:49 PM

Well well, GSA,

So much has transpired since I logged off.

Who taught you to tie a hook, speak, write, pontificate.

Were some of these folks paid proffesionals? Educators perhaps?

I learned to fish for salmon and steelhead on many of the central Oregon streams that I hear you mention.

I had the good fortune to befriend some of the top fisherman on the streams within 1 hour of Eugene.

When I started out, they showed, taught, handed me off fish, encouraged.

When I got to the point I could hook fish, land them, I did not gloat, I was thankfull that well seasoned fishermen had taken me under their wing and I always given them credit.

Thanks to Gary Starr and Jack Cabe.

If you've been in your part of the state for more than 15 years, on the local streams, you know those names.

I've had huge days (20-30 chinook, 15+ steelhead personally landed) on the rivers that I hear you mention.

Do I gloat? Nope, I'm thankfull that my friends wanted to see me learn and improve. I also believe my creator likes to see me catch fish.

All that aside.

I now find myself living in metropolis. Business is good, family is happy, we are blessed.

I see no shame in sharing some "retained earnings" with good folks who fish for a living. For all the benefits previously stated.

Did I feel cheap feeding an Ahi to a 275 lb Blue Marlin on the west coast of Lanaii, nope, blessed. Did I feel diminished when I battled a 400# Mako off Cabo that I cast a mullet to then hooked and battled for an hour? Nope, blessed again. Could I have done it myself? Maybe, if I sold my house moved there bought a boat etc.

My uncle Herb who taught me to love fishing at an early age visited from Texas this spring and caught 2 springers out of my boat. On a day that Ponciano had 0 and Linde had 1. He came back in the fall when in 3 days he landed 22 salmon including a 43# chinook, did I take credit? Nope again. An accumilation of friends, learning, reports, study , ambition, and most of all blessings.

I will grant 1 point to you friend. I TYPICALLY would not hire a big game guide. I have given that much thought. I have enough accomplishments in that realm, not necessary to share, that were 100% earned. But in each case, I give credit to my mentors, my father, hunting buddies, etc. for teaching, and my own ambition, and blessings to carry through.

I personally see a difference between catching fish, or shooting birds, and big game. I would never belittle someone who chooses to hire a guide to elk hunt, just not for me (thanks Keith)

Fishing is my pastime. I'm pretty good at it. I enjoy honing my skills and seeing people smile when they catch them. I enjoy improving my game. I am blessed that I can afford to hire a guide. I plan to continue.

I have learned from many people. I give them credit. I believe I also have an aptitude, that has been proven through my own innovations and sucesses.

I support your choice to not do so. Please do not demean me for choosing another path.

GRB

Tilla

02-13-2003, 12:04 AM

Sometimes you need a boat and you don't own a boat. Maybe they have sled rentals at the Deschutes river mouth. Who's driving?
Sometimes you want a floatplane and you don't own a floatplane. Maybe someone will rent me one :shocked:
Sometimes you need to entertain business clients and the company will pay for it. Why do I want to use my personal equipment and eggs, and clean up the mess that night. graemlins/berry.gif
I dunno, I sure have spent a lot of my life crawling down canyons, crossing passes, scaling cliffs, standing in water up to my armpits to catch a fish.
Now ,I don't have to hire a guide. I have plenty of boats, equipment and toys I have worked hard for.
But, an occasional guide is nice now and then.

[ 02-13-2003, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: Tilla ]

SoundsFishy

02-13-2003, 12:14 AM

The guided trips are great. I do two a year (with an Ifish guide of course) because I don't own a boat and I get tired of bank fishing. I have considered getting a boat, but I wouldnt have the time to enjoy it. My two or so trips a year, hit me for $300. This is nothing compared to having my own boat.

I am going next week with Travis Moncrief. Every trip with Dave Johnson has been great. Especially the Clack trips. He is great with his sled. The jet boat ride is worth the $150.

I spent 20 years "mastering" the art of fishing, and now that I am grown up and can afford the occassional guided trip, I do it.

crabbait

02-13-2003, 12:37 AM

GRB - I read a lot of posts every day. That, my friend, was one of the best I have ever read. Well said! graemlins/applause.gif

RichH

02-13-2003, 04:36 AM

GRB,

Very well put. graemlins/applause.gif graemlins/applause.gif

I personally fish cuz I like to fish. Some days I just like to go and fish without the hassle of preparing everything for the day on the river. I also enjoy going places I've never been and learning what amounts to new techinques for me. I've never felt cheapened by the experience of hiring a guide. In fact, I've felt enriched by the time spent with good people that also happen to be good fishermen.

The only ifish guide I've fished with has been Marty. Last year we went with him to support the broodstock program. We fished a river I've fished for as long as I've been steelhead fishing and had a great day. No, I didn't learn any new secret holes but I did come away enriched by the experience and to me thats what fishing is all about.

GSA, if fishing and hunting is only about being able to stand over your kill and beat your chest to prove your superior ability I feel sorry for you. Hopefully you can get back the pure joy of just being out there, whoever you happen to be with.

Personally, I just like to fish.

luguando

02-13-2003, 06:12 AM

I think going out with a guide is a good idea. Especially if you want to learn a body of water that you've never fished. I respect Gutshot's views and I have to admit that I held the same ones when I was a younger man. Now that I've got a family and a business my time has become VERY limited. I don't have the free time of my earlier days and there's no way I can put in the time to learn all the bodies of water I want to fish. I look at a guided trip as one of the best and cheapest investiments I can make.

GutshotApe

02-13-2003, 07:04 AM

Originally posted by RichH:
GSA, if fishing and hunting is only about being able to stand over your kill and beat your chest to prove your superior ability I feel sorry for you. Hopefully you can get back the pure joy of just being out there, whoever you happen to be with.

Personally, I just like to fish. I cannot understand how you could have interpreted anything I posted to arrive at this conclusion and nonsensical statement. Holy Cow! :shocked: So, are the dudes supposed to catch the fish or shoot the game and just stand there grinning.....while the guide stands over the kill beating HIS chest? :whazzup:

GRB - I didn't intend to demean those who choose to pay for a guide. I do believe commercial guiding cheapens and diminishes the outdoor experience for the guided party and others, but that is my personal opinion and I promise not to think unkindly of those who hire guides - as long as they behave ethically and with consideration for others. Unfortunately, that isn't always the case and in areas where there are concentrations of guides, like the Rogue River, it too frequently isn't the case. :depressed:

I once told the president of the Rogue Guides Assn. that his group had better start self policing or we, the people of Oregon, would do it for them. His response was a blank stare.......as if he had no idea that 500 guides working one river might be causing a problem. :hoboy:

pdxkevin

02-13-2003, 07:29 AM

Being boatless and relatively new to the Pacific NW makes hiring a guide is a great idea for me. I will seriously look into giving a guide a try next year (we are in the process of buying our first house so things are tight right now).

David Johnson

02-13-2003, 07:45 AM

There are a lot of different people that fish with guides, and they have good reasons and are not just looking for a cheap date.

Some people don't have the time or skill to learn on their own.

Some people want to see a new river.

Some people are self taught expert fishermen but are intertaining business clients or family and would rather let the guide do the work so they can relax.

I've got a lot of good fishermen who will book trips with me so they can bring their wife. That way they can fish and I can instruct, I have more patience than almost anyone on a boat.

Some of my regulars are skilled enough that I don't even have to do anything but drive the boat. It's all about good company and being out there to relax.

There's also a lot of out of town people that are in the arae who like to get out for a one time experience.

AnglersRental

02-13-2003, 07:49 AM

Hey GSA

I think most of the guides who do it for a full time living, have a regular customer base, and started when times were tough, might agree with you about the number of recent guide startups.

Also remember that much of the current crop of guides only do a few paying trips a year. These guys would be out fishing without the guide stickers anyway, but like the "prestige" of being a guide.

Remember that the requirements in Oregon are just insurance, CPR training, and paying a small fee. There is no expirence requirement or apprenticeship like other states have. I would like to see such requirements in Oregon.

If there were such requirements there would be a lot fewer "guides" or boats with "guide" stickers on the water. Most of the guide stickers you see on the water are just average type fishermen who paid for the stickers. Being a guide is their hobby, it doesn't pay the bills.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought the great part of the trip was not having the pressure on my head to be the one to put the other guys on fish. I am somewhat competetant at catching fish myself, but sometimes find it really frusterating taking others out fishing. If thay have to do more than watch the rod I rigged sit in the holder (eg steelhead fishing) it can be REALLY hard to get a less expierenced angler into fish.

UG

[ 02-13-2003, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

CATCH AND EAT

02-13-2003, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by Gun Rod Bow:
On the post that Ugly Green (my guest) made with pics of our trip, someone mentioned something about a statement of "never hiring a guide".

There seems to be a stigma attached...if you go with a guide...you can't catch them on your own.

Is it a good way to learn water/methods? You bet! I was rested and happy. I noted how different I felt compared to when I get up early, prepare bait, tie leaders, fuel the boat, check levels, get reports, search the water, run the boat, worry about where to find fish, clean the boat...it was truly relaxing and very enjoyable.

Where else can you spend a day, doing what you love, with someone who is a true profesional, for less than the cost a two really good seats to a Blazer game...or one G Loomis rod?

GRB I obviously hit a nerve with ya an I sincerely appologize for that. I was the one in Uglygreens post that GRB is referring to. It was only ment as a jest and I truly could not remember if it was you or not. As it appears it was GSA who of course is entitled to his opinion about guides. So please forgive me GRB and go have another adult beverage. :smile:

That said, I am an absolute advacate of going with a guide. That is the way I learned to fish. I usually do 2 guided trips a year and sometimes 3. I have been with good guides and bad guides but I have learned from both techniques that I use today. I have also gone on trips with folks on i-fish. I learn from them too. Thanks especially to Fishin Mission and Madwizard for teaching me some new stuff. :bowdown: Heck, I have taken i-fisher's on my own boat and learned alot. Fishalot brought a Christmas tree ornament that he got from Tilla and it caught fish. I think the fact that I laughed at it before he put it in the water did the trick :rolleyes: Point is, you can learn something new with guides and with other fisherman ...er ....persons.

Again, I am humbled GRB.

Crabbait, you actually said something funny. :laugh: Thanks for the laugh. :grin:

[ 02-13-2003, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: CATCH AND EAT ]

Spoiled Daddy

02-13-2003, 08:23 AM

GSA,

I am somewhat restricted to fishing waters I already know and the area I live in. I wish I had the $ to spend on guides to learn new fishing techniques and waters, but I simply do not. When I have used guides, it has been in new areas (like vacation spots) and I would have wasted days trying to figure out where to fish and local techniques. I have had some great trips out the few times I have had the $ for a guide.

As far as ifish.net goes, I have learned lots since I started lurking and even more since I joined in. graemlins/program.gif I am sure I have even learned some things from your posts, so thanks for sharing your tips and experiences too! graemlins/applause.gif

We all have room to grow and share.

SD

smoky

02-13-2003, 08:30 AM

Bonehead!

Fish-n-Fever

02-13-2003, 08:31 AM

GSA , and others who think using guides cheapens and demeans the sport and devalues the fish or game taken. Do you ever fish with anyone or do you fish alone? If you take other fisherpeople on your boats or with you on trips do you ever give them tips or the benefit of your many years of struggle to learn this sport?.....if you do or ever have do you have a sign in your boat that says..."If you fish with me and take advantage of anything I say or any tip I might have, you are using me and it cheapens and demeans the sport and devalues the fish or game taken."
There are many reasons people use guides and many reasons people fish with friends in the end it is their personal choice to do either or.
I personally have never hired a guide for one reason, I cannot afford to (although I do enter every single contest I can find to win a trip with a guide) but I have fished with plenty of friends and taken plenty of friends fishing and I don't think any of these trips cheapens or demeans the sport and devalues the fish or game taken.
Nobody was born knowing everything about fishing, including you, and everyone had to learn it from someone. If one prefers to hire a guide and take a faster track up the tree of knowledge more power to them if they prefer to spend countless trips to the water to learn on their own that is good also if it is what they want to do.
Good luck fishing to everyone, including guides.
Ron

Rip'N'Lips

02-13-2003, 08:35 AM

Do they have indoor plumbing in Junction City???

Rip'N'Lips

Kinebra

02-13-2003, 08:42 AM

There are three kinds of people that I enjoy paying for their services....in order:

My Attorney! My CPA and Fishing Guides.

One keeps me out of trouble or at least reminds me of the consequences of my choices. The other never wants to do things my way but certainly helps me pay my way for the last, and the guides help me relax from all the rhetoric and BS the other two feed me. In retrospect guides don't get paid enough for the emotional support they provide! They should be required to be licensed psychiatrist!

I LOVE TO FISH (part of the road to recovery is admitting you have a problem first :smile: ). To me it's fishing either way and for those that say it's half the fun getting there....it still is!

Enjoy your time on the water, know matter how you do it, bank, boat or vicariously through others (by reading all this stuff instead of getting your gear ready for your next outing, or spending time with your family), do it the way that helps you get through all the other struggles in life because there are plenty.
:cool:

Silver Hilton

02-13-2003, 08:46 AM

I catch enough fish. More than some, fewer than some. I know how to fish.

I go out with guides once in a while, because once in a while, I like to sit back and let someone else do the worrying about where they are and what to do.

husker

02-13-2003, 09:07 AM

this is an interesting thread fo me.....i have only been on 1 guided trip in my life and i didnt enjoy it too much....i was much younger back then and it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth paying all that money and getting totally skunked on the trip......we had no fish on, fish bites, and saw no fish anywhere.... :mad: but in the reality of life i did learn a few things from that trip i personally havent used the tricks of that day since i dont have a jet boat but i did learn new water.......

on the other hand i have taken a few trips with fellow ifishers and basically they served as my guide.......during the fall i took FM2 out to bouy 10 area and he taught me how to caught fish out there...... :bowdown: :bowdown: .......

then i have taken a few trips with smokey and he has taught more about the wilson then i could ever imagine......now i really believed i knew the wilson before i went with him but all i had ever done was bank fish he showed me that river from a DB definitely a new expirence for me.......

finally i went sturgeon fishing with sturgeon tom and while we didnt catch many fish i learned techniques which will help in the future......

and theres lots to be said about not having to be the 1 trying to get people into fish.....

i am gonna have to hire a guide.....and i am 1 i thought would never say that :cheers:

GutshotApe

02-13-2003, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Rip'N'Lips:
Do they have indoor plumbing in Junction City???

Rip'N'Lips Mr. Lip: I've tried to keep my posts impersonal......I have expressed my opinion.....

So why the personal slam? :whazzup:

foxer

02-13-2003, 09:21 AM

I cant get a steelhead to save my life. The wife gave me the go ahead to take a guided trip in the future. Will guides take a single client? Or would I have to find a buddy to make it two people ?

Rip'N'Lips

02-13-2003, 09:54 AM

Gutshotape-

No offense... I am from rural Hillsboro, where we had indoor plumbing but no toilet paper....

Rip'N'Lips

[ 02-13-2003, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Rip'N'Lips ]

GutshotApe

02-13-2003, 10:16 AM

RipnLips - No problem, no offense taken. Now, if I had gotten really worked up and developed an extensive analogy of fishing guiding and prostitution (not that I'd ever think of doing that :wink: ), that would be different. :wink: :grin: :wink:

id. painter

02-13-2003, 11:04 AM

I have never hired a guide. I have to agree with G.S.A.. To a point. I feel there is a difference between a fish and a big game animal. I have taken many big game animals, and have had many friends become guides for big game. I take sides with the game when it comes to guides. I personally am repulsed at the idea of some guy( any guy) comming from somewhere (anywhere) just because he has a guide, to show him a trophy to kill.
I spent my entire life living with and learning the hide outs of these critters. I could never feel right about using that knowledge to make $, by having someone (anyone) kill those beasts. I feel very strongly that if you want to kill these critters you should have to do it yourself. Learning to spot, stalk , judge, clean , care for , and comsume should be req. with out that personal investment, i dont think you fully respect and love the animals the way a hunter should. Ive seen too many eastern hunters (no offense to eastern hunters intended) show up wanting to kill one of our most respectable creatures with no reverance at all for the beast. I feel that the critters deserve better.
I know that it happens without a guide also, . I know im not just talking logic but emotion.Im an emotional guy, and it has alway broke my heart to see these animals killed by guys that havnt done anything, but pay and show up. Just my .02 cents.

Gun Rod Bow

02-13-2003, 04:52 PM

Hey Catch and Eat,

I didn't take that comment as a slam, really. Smack talk maybe (which I love) but not a slam.

It did however kick me into thought and "rumination".

I see GSA's point, have had those same thoughts, and maybe that's why I started this thread.

I take great pride in the time I've spent learning from others and on my own. I have developed a level of skill with help and on my own.

The only other fishing guide I have paid (in Oregon or for steelhead/salmon) was Bob Toman when he was doing the test fishery at the falls. That was a once in a lifetime chance to fish right under the falls in the name of research. One afternoon when Rich and I went, the boat landed 39 springers and a steelhead...all in the name of science. :wink:

About 9 years ago I was talking over elk hunting at dinner with some guys I knew passingly. One guy had a major difference of opinion with me over something (caliber of bullet?). I said I had killed 8 elk with no complaints. He said "what's the biggest". My response was all spikes and forks. He laughed out loud and said that he had killed only branch bulls.

I was a little heated up. All the elk I had taken were on my own, on public land. Friends had taken me to their camps, and elk hunting is typically a team sport, but I was alone on each occasion. I found out that all he had killed were literally out of a pickup on private land on guided hunts in Colorado. :mad: I am proud of every elk I have been fortunate enough to harvest.

I asked my friend Keith about paying a guide or an access fee to get into some bigger bulls. He said nope, we'll go find a big one. We hunted public land in Oregon the next year. Packed into the wilderness with our own horses, mules and gear. While hunting on my own I took the 300 class 6X6 on my wall.

3 years ago I called in a 6 point bull that Keith arrowed at 12 steps. He gave me a watch with that bulls ivory inlaid.

Much pride, much gratitude, much blessings, team sport.

I wanted to share these thoughts because I have changed my view of fishing guides.

I'm still chasing elk on public land and probably always will. BTW, more branch bulls since with my bow :grin: That is my choice. Others hunt with guides, their choice.

Thanks for the thoughts and opinions everyone.

GRB

Hey look, almost cocktail hour!

boater

02-13-2003, 09:48 PM

i fished with 2 guides 1 time each, both were free or i wouldnt have went, just not my cup of tea.

Tilla

02-14-2003, 12:18 AM

C + E,
I've seen a single "Christmas Tree" lure bring entire charter boats to their knees. Now stare into the red light....POOF! :wink:

Chris Nordling

02-14-2003, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by foxer:
....... Will guides take a single client? Or would I have to find a buddy to make it two people ? Some will, and some won't. Just like some will fish on the weekends, and some won't.

Personally, I like to take two ( an extra rod in the water never hurt), but if someone really wants to learn, or wants some one on one instruction,there's no problem taking out solo trips.

Some guides have a higher price for just one person( like a boat minimum), and the prices get less for the more people you bring. Others are a flat rate per person regardless of the # of people.

Check around, you'll see what I mean.

Hope this helps & Good Fishing,

Chris :cool:

[ 02-13-2003, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: FWF1 ]

Lucky Luke

02-14-2003, 12:48 AM

Excellant topic!!

I have would hire a guide if I had the coin. But I'm also happy just learning on my own. I have a lot of respect for the guides out there on the water trying to satisfy their customers. It's a lot of pressure to put people into fish on a daily basis. I,ve watched Jack Glass do it time and again from my buddies boat. I'm sure it would be a lot of fun and a great learning expierence to spend a day fishing with him. My point is, these guys work a long day at a job that is very demanding. They have a great respect for the fish that we all pursue and set a good example for rookies like myself. I can mimic their techniques but that doesn't necessarily increase my catch ratio. I believe that if I spend enough time on ifish asking questions and listening in on advice that I will become as good as a guide eventually, but I wouldn't want their job. Long hours lots of pressure.

Salmon Stryker

02-14-2003, 12:48 AM

id painter,
Thats a good point and I feel the same way to some extent. It is sad to see people that just because they have money they can be successful at things that others of us have to work for and enjoy working for. Thats the world we live in however....Money will get you almost anything. Funny however that most people I know who are filthy rich aren't truly happy though.

However I don't really agree with GSA that hiring a guide is cheating. I hired a guide 4 times now and think it was worth every penny I paid. I want to be a better fisherman and sacraficed some of my hard earned money to learn more about the sport and techniques to help me become successful. I don't book guided trips just to catch fish without respect for the sport or what it takes to be successful. If I just wanted to catch fish, going with a guide or charter would be a lot less expensive than owning two boats. I just want to be better at my hobby and don't mind spending a little money to learn more about it. I don't think it cheapens the experience at all. Everyone has to learn to fish somehow and I think it would be a lot more expensive to go 5 times and get skunked than to learn how to fish the first time.