leaks in wood boat

[SandySteel]

A while back I posted with excitement my purchase of a 1946 16' Burchcraft (yes that's how you spell it) here on ifish... Original post...my new old boat (http://www.ifish.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=016037#000000)
Well I took it out and it had some leaks so I took it home and hit it with some heavy duty marine caulking along the keel line and then took it back out today. It still has some seeping leaks.
Now I may be too fussy but I would like to get it so it doesn't leak. All of the leaks seem to be coming from the keel line.
I am considering some additional repairs including either:
A. hitting it with more caulk
B. Turning it over and epoxying the keel line
C. Turning it over and fiberglassing the keel line.

It is made with plywood sheeting and you can see how this boat is constructed from the patent information below.

Anyone have any advice on the best, simplest and least expensive procedures?

US Patent information.... pretty cool (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=2232313.WKU.&OS=PN/2232313&RS=PN/2232313) Click on "Images"

[ 12-07-2002, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: SandySteel ]

[I Fred]

I aint no expert when it comes to wooden boats, but I've always heard that if wooden boat leaks fill it with water(as much as your trailer and boat will support) and let the wood absorb as much water as possible. This swells the wood and stops, or at least slows down the problem. I aint no expert. but thats what I heard. I also heard all wooden boats leak a little. Good Luck on this fine looking boat. :smile:

[Grantspastor]

It's tough to get them completely stopped. Wood will swell when wet and tend to seal itself off. Best luck I've had is to turn it over, take it down to bare wood...fiberglass to about six inches up the side...cover it with UHMD, and caulk every single screw on the bottom, and on the chine batten. That will last until you drfit sidways into a rock and break the fiberglass.

It's cheaper and easier to carry a hand bilge pump

[Grantspastor]

double post

[ 12-07-2002, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[excuse me]

*Ooops. Excuse me. I tried adjusting the URL to bring up the boat pic and it didn't work.

[ 12-07-2002, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: excuse me ]

[ampersat]

caulking from the inside ain't the answer and will only make things worse in the long run. by allowing it to leak into the wood, you'll get dry rot and end up having to replace the entire bottom in a few years. take it down to good wood and then do a quality job with the fiberglass and epoxy.

the reason it leaked in the first place probably has to do with the strains of the motor torqueing the hull, causing the original finish to fail. it's a half a century old, it's to be expected. do a thorough job now and it'll probably be another half a century before you have to do it again. don't want to spend the time or personal effort? pay to get it done. that boat is worth whatever you have to pay. antiques are cool but working antiques are even cooler. one day i hope to pass the beautiful eastsider (after the work i'm planning for next summer) on to my kids and i hope they'll think it's as cool as i do. yours isn't a sportjet and mine isn't a clackacraft. they're better and they deserve the investment.

[SandySteel]

I fixed the link above. What you do when you get to the US patent office is click on the button that says "images". They are converting over all of their paper patents and putting them online.

Good points Ampersat. Sometimes I need reminding that the job I get out of it is only as good as the work I put into it.

I don't really believe the "its supposed to leak and then swell" school. If you expose wood to water and let it soak in it will lose many of its preservative oils, shrink, and in the end rot over the long run.
I guess I am going to turn it over, sand it down to wood and fiberglas and epoxy the outside. I guess this isn't the best method for lapstrake boats (multiple pieces glued or screwed together) as they need to be able to breathe from the inside. But this boat is already painted and made of plywood. It doesn't breathe anyway. So why not add a layer of fiberglass?

I want to do some further research. If I was going to have someone do the work does anyone have any advice about who to take it to? Any specialists in the area of wood boat repair in the local area?

[Hoosier Daddy]

One of the main epoxy companies (I think it is West System) has a good website. They will send you a free informational catalog with some good info in it. Also, their website has some links on it with projects people have used their product for, might check the list.

I'm no expert, but I get a magazine called Wooden Boat (highly recommend it). Quite often they mention epoxy repairs to old plywood boats. I don't have specifics but might be a place to look. Don't expect your boat to swell shut like an old lapstake might. My understanding is that plywood will swell, but is pretty dimensionally stable - meaning it might get thicker, but it ain't likely to close gaps in the hull. Offhand, flipping it and epoxying the whole bottom is probably the best, but you should check other options too.

Alternatively, you could re-assess my offer to take it off your hands. I won't even charge you a haul off fee :grin: :grin: (like my wife would allow THAT, another boat......).

That's a perty boat, and worth saving if you have anywhere near the means to do so. Wood is good. Good luck. Keep us posted.

[V. Green]

Eric,

I would suggest using fiberglass cloth and a two part epoxy like West System. You will need to get the paint cleaned off this section (I have a heat gun you can borrow). Then coat with epoxy and fiberglass cloth.

If I remember correctly you want to do the following with the epoxy method:
1) Coat with epoxy, let dry for a couple of days.
2) Use a light soap to wash away oily (sp?) finish.
3) Cut cloth to approximate size, wet surface area to be coated with epoxy, lay in fiberglass cloth and wet with epoxy and work into place. (Remember you do not want any ridges in this finish).
4) Let dry for a couple of days.
5) Use a light soap to wash away oily (sp?) finish.
6) Recoat with epoxy and repaet steps 4, 5 & 6 until you are happy with the finish.
7) Paint or varnish. There is no need for primer as the epoxy acts as a primer.

You might want to visit the following forum, Ray Heater (Ray's River Dories of Portland) gave me lots of help in building my Pram, he posts at this site.

Southwest Montana Boat Board: Driftboats 2002 (http://www.ycsi.net/users/boats/bulletin_board/)

It is still likey that you will have samll leaks unless you go over every seam that exists on your boat. Give me a call if you need any help in doing this work.

[ 12-08-2002, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: V. Green ]

[SandySteel]

Thanks Vaden
I am also considering the products from this vendor. The Rot Doctor (http://www.rotdoctor.com/boat/Bmain.html)
This is quite the interesting site. Especially entertaining is the Rotton Boat eZine that he publishes. Some of the projects here make mine look like I'm playing tiddlywinks.

Eric

[lost_sailor]

that looks a lot like my boat - yours is 12 years older.

I recommend a couple hundred hours with paint stripper, sandpaper, Marine-Tex, fiberglass, epoxy, and paint.

It'll be worth it.

I need to replace the piece of wood that runs along the keel (what do you call it? It's not a 'chine', is it a 'strake'?) - all the screws have disintegrated and it's more or less held on with Coat-It and paint. I'll bet that's where your is leaking, on mine there is a seam where two pieces of plywood come together.

It'll be worth it - what else are you doing all winter?

:smile:

[SandySteel]

I think that is what I will be doing. What kind of boat is yours? Is it a Burchcraft as well? I have found some interesting information on them. I found a pretty neat site built by a guy who restored his 14' and posts other's information when they email him.

In fact he has some great illustrations on how he recreated his keel which might help you out. Pretty ingenious if you ask me. If your keel is disintegrating you might check out the information at the rot doctor web site I pointed out earlier. It looks like it can save some very expensive repairs by elminating the need to replace soft wood.

Here is the Burchcraft web site (http://home.europa.com/~garry/burchcraft.htm)

This wood boat ownership creates kind of a cult like following once you get on board so to speak.

Eric

[ 12-09-2002, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: SandySteel ]

[V. Green]

Eric,

Since you are now a wood boat guy, are you going to sell me your Koffler? :wink:

[SandySteel]

HA! N.N.B.H.N.

[Chilly one]

You sound as though you have the makings of a NICE boat pal! I have to agree having a wood boat which I've had a 22' Caulkins Bartender for 6-8 years, and now have a 16.5 Henry Huerth made in Ptlnd., for 12 years, that the asthetics of wood is warm and a good feeling when people comment on your classic piece of equipment. All the arduous hours of labor payoff when the comments fly. The appreciation of a woodie is rampant. Keep in mind there is a Wooden Boat show in Depoe Bay each spring that is growing and fun as the boat numbers are increasing each year and the friendship is great! There is a wonderful wood craftsman in Depoe Bay, Lars Robinson, who has chartered out of Depoe Bay many years. He is a true wood crafter and boat afficiando. BIG TIME! He owns Dockside Charters there. A couple of things that I've found to be important in wood boats is ventilation in closed areas of boat, and storage inside is a must with ventilation as well. If you are ever in Newport see Dean Fleck he is the manager of Englund Marine and knows ALOT re: maintenance and repairs of woodies. He's a dandy. Phone number there is 541.265.9275. He knows all the tricks working with wood and West Systems products and fiberglass. They carry ALL the stuff for repairs. My Henry Huerth is a 1963 and is a "9" pushing a 10. Every time I take it out it gets oohed and aahhed by folks. I have three boats now and use it little anymore. It's a classic. I've restored it myself and enjoyed several weeks of intense hours of labor, but the rewards are satisfying! If I can be of anyhelp call me @ 541.867.7023. Eves best. Have a great Holiday Season, and good luck on your "woodie"! Chillyone

[edsr]

Eric - Plywood should not leak through itself, a sure sign of delaminated plys. From the design of the boat in the patent diagrams it would look like there are seams in severaql areas which might have failed.

Don't fill the boat up with water, especially on the trailer. Boats are designed to resist pressure from the outside of their planking, and plywood does not need to swell up as does solid planking. A boat full of water would grossly overload the trailer, causing damage to the trailer and probably the boat being suported only in certain areas, (rollers, bunks, etc), sitting on the trailer. Don't ask me how I know this.

You are on the right track by thinking overhaul. Take the boat down to bare wood being careful not to sand through any of the plys. When you find the source of the leak you will be able to make a sound judgement on how to proceed. If you elect to sheathe the hull in fiberglass be sure to use only epoxy resin and not polyester. Fiberglass and epoxy will pretty much guarantee a watertight hull, but it will add weight. If the edges of the plywood are rotten you must cut back the wood until you have sound material to work on. Rot has no structural benefit no matter what you slather it with. When you reach sound material, then use C.P.E.S. to penetrate and seal before fastening, caulking, fiber glassing, etc. You can find a disertation of C.P.E.S. on the woodenboat.com forum. BTW, C.P.E.S. = clear penetrating epoxy system. This stuff is a two part liquid with about the viscosity of water and will penetrate plywood, edges especially, very well. It works like an enhanced primer for epoxy and most paint products.

Keep the boat dry and ventilated as mentioned above.

Think of this as an adventure and a learning experience . IT will give you a chance to discover and learn a lot of new skills.

LOL
edsr

[HORNBLOWER]

Both V.Green & edsr are right on. I had the "pleasure" of cutting apart; repairing and fiberglassing an 18' Calkins a number of years ago. Previous owners had pounded steel nails in the sides to repair it....dry rot, big-time.
A few suggestions however, from my own experience:
1- rather than soapy water to clean, the fiberglass people insisted that ACETONE be used to cleaning the hull. [BE SURE TO USE A GOOD MASK & PROTECT YOUR HANDS].
2- Follow previous suggestion and replace any dry rot before fiberglassing.
3- The wood surface should be roughed up with heavy sandpaper before adding the resin & fiberglass. The resin needs to fill in that rough surface to "grip" firmly, avoiding the cloth lifting away from the surface.
4- use only the oldest clothing to work withfiberglass and resin. You will be able to stand your trousers in the corner when you are finished.
5- Be sure that the paint you use when you finish the repair will be compatible with the resin surface. (I used Pettit Monopoxy. a 1-coat paint on mine. Don't know whether it is even manufactured anymore.)
You will have a memorable experience in the process, and a great satisfaction when it is completed, as you enjoy your "new" boat.
Good luck.