Kilchis Snaggers part ll

[Jennie@ifish]

OK, so it is Thanksgiving, all is calm, all is clear...

I'm driving to town to get a last minute item.
I drive past the bridge.
There are the normal amount of people there, fishing in the "Aquarium" with large corkies and yarn. Not one bobber.
You can see every fish in the hole.

There's a guy on the top bank, yelling at another, "You better try and revive that fish, or I'm calling the TIP line!"
So... naturally, I pull over.
Sure enough, there is a guy out there, kicking a fish around.
The guy up top gets so ticked he heads almost running down to the fisherman. I think, "UH OH! There is going to be a fight!" I can't leave now, right?
So... They talk, and talk and there is no fight.
But as I watch the cast, cast, jerk jerk and the fancy cars with LOOMIS on them, I begin to get really sick to my stomach.
"Fish on!" one of them yells.
OK, so they did "take" one bright fish out of the hole. Did it bite? I highly doubt it.
But this gives them an excuse to fish on...
I couldn't believe it! Guys dressed in Cabelas stuff, and all kinds of fancy gear fishing in this manner?
I walked down to the bank, and very calmly on the outside, but shaking on the inside, said, "Guys? These fish are stuck here. They can't go upstream. We need these fish to spawn, so that we will have fish later."

"Go get my 12 guage!" One of the nicer dressed fishing yuppies said. "I'll teach her how to fish!"

Anyway, they started to yell at me all kinds of un pleasantries, including things like, "Go home and cook your turkey or do something you know how to do!"

Funny, after talking to them, I have decided that I probably know more than all of them, combined. []

One of them yelled at me, "You live on this river? Do you have a hatch box? SHAME on you for not having a hatch box, and you CARE about our fish????"

I told him it was illegal for me to have a hatch box without a permit, and we highly doubt we could obtain one.

His response?

"Well, then....! You are UGLY!" :smile: :smile: :smile:

Oh! I see what we are dealing with here! (I won't say it.)

Anyway, they told me they were going to go get their grenades and try that next.

I called the cops. I couldn't help it. I reported their threat of arms, etc, and what they were doing. The officer called me back, and was very concerned. Said he couldn't really do anything without a video of it, and that he would go on down and check it out... again.

He agreed with me that it is time for an emergency closure until we have rain.

I mean, guys, these guys were fishing in an aquarium! This isn't sport!!! 5 year olds could pull a fish out of there without instruction! You want a fish that bad, go to Safeway! If you want to fish, learn a little skill!

I am just shaking I'm so ticked off. I'm sure that with my www.ifish.net (http://www.ifish.net) logo on the back, we are going to get some visitors on here soon, and they aren't going to be happy. You know what? I don't care.

I feel passionately about this, darn it, and I'm going to make some enemies. I learned a lesson. I tried to talk to them reasonably, to tell them, I to, like to fish. They were calling me a greenie! I'm NOT! I love to fish, and that is why I care!!!

I might be a little less vocal next time, cuz I see it doesn't get you anywhere to talk, but...
I still think they shouldn't be fishing there with that gear.
:mad:
Jen

[ 11-28-2002, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Point-of-Sale Clerk]

try to calm down, it will be OK :smile: :smile:

Try to have a nice Thanksgiving :cheers:

[Keta]

:mad: :mad: :mad: SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE ONLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT THEM!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

http://www.ifish.net/uploads/140816331.gif

[ 11-28-2002, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[Jennie@ifish]

One question... just one:

I talked to this one guy in the parking lot, that didn't understand why I was upset, so I tried to explain it, and he just didn't get it.

My question:

WHY DOESN'T HE GET IT???

graemlins/1zhelp.gif Jen

[ragjr]

Jen

I don't think I would call them fishermen at all, sounds to me like they are to lazy to do it the right way and don't care about the affects it has years down the road.

Everybody needs to do a rain dance, so the fish will move up river.

[snake2]

Way to stick up for what you believe in Jen. It's really unfortunate that a few bad apples can put a damper on the whole crop. I, as well as, most other people who are a part of ifish, welcome some of these wannabe fisherman to come on our site and state their case. But, like their equiptment for fishing...they probably have top of the line, high speed computers...that they don't know how to use properly either. Don't let a few disrespectful degenerates ruin your day of giving thanks. Thank you Jen and have a great Thanksgiving...Just remember..what comes around goes around...They will eventually get theirs! And I agree, I would like to do the "Cutthrout" Bonk again someday. Thats a tone that I haven't heard in a long time. :cheers:

[crazyinoregon]

Jen, sorry to hear about your experience on the kilchis. I think that the main thing we can hope for is that they institute an emergency closure graemlins/1zhelp.gif . It prob. wouldnt be a bad idea for the ODFW to institute a min. IQ requirement for fishing liscenses too :grin: . Have a great Turkey day regardless of the Turkies on the bank...... it will come around to them......it always does!!!

tight lines :cheers:

[rob allen]

Jennie. standing up for what is right always creates a few enemies. People are often offended by being told what is right truth because their actions are wrong and they know it.

The game warden should show up throw them all in jail and take away all of their posessions. boats homes EVERYTHING. Sell it off and plant some carcasses in the river.
These guys are no better than crack dealers who sell to teenagers.

[ladtrips]

Jen, Kudos for you standing up to these obvious morons. I think you did the right thing by contacting the PD and for letting us know. As for them coming on this forum and causing a stir.....................who cares. I think there are enough of us that have some sort of ethics that they don't belong here anyway. Like someone else said it's too bad that a few bad apples reflect on all sportsmen/women everywhere. Maybe a video camera needs ot be a staple for all trips in the future. That's too bad in itself. But at least it will be there for the good things also.

[Captain and Marie]

Jennie,

my .02 cents worth,

It might have been very dangerous for you to approach these guys, next time bring Bill with you and your dog!

Be careful....

sis,
Marie

[Jennie@ifish]

I really felt quite safe. It was right out in public, with lots of folks watching in disgust.

They kept saying what they were doing is legal. Well? It is tough to prove that it is not.
I kept saying, perhaps, but it is unethical.

The Official I spoke to told me that corkie fishing is legal, and that is why it's so hard to monitor. He stated that they HAVE to have a video of it, and they HAVE to jerk at least once every cast.

I feel like taking them on a trip where it takes a bit of skill to take a fish.
It's just not a level playing field when you pick on fish stuck in a hole like this.

If they were fishing with bobber and egg, I could have seen it, perhaps... but this method is just too easy to snag them with.

Anyway, turkey was awesome, and now it's time for a nap! :smile:

J

[Nanook]

http://pages.prodigy.net/bestsmileys1/emoticons1/dnhotel.gif http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/cuffs1.gif

[KingFisher85]

That makes me mad just reading about it. :mad: D&^% snaggers. To bad you didn't have a few of us ifishers there to back you up.

[Jennie@ifish]

Why, what a grand idea! What are you doing tomorrrow? :smile: :smile: :smile:

[KingFisher85]

Well, I don't know who I will be tossing around tomorrow?

I think we sould take there Loomis rods and there $100 dollar reels and keep them. Toss the snaggers in the water and then say that they hit me.
Sounds good to me. Toss a knife in the water around were they were standing too.

[Fishin Magician]

Why dont you just go down there tomorrow with Bill and sit there with your camcorder and make a home movie. Give the cops a reason to do something. I have done it before and it does work. It isnt going to do any good writing about it on the net , just go get proof and nail thier ***** ............

[Orange Heron]

Sorry to hear about your experience on Thanksgiving Day. You best be careful with those kind of guys. Some of there remarks to you were awful. They will get what's coming to them someday.

[Mad Mikey]

Drop an old bedspring in the top of the run and leave it til the spawn is over. graemlins/idea.gif

[rob allen]

what ya need to do is get a few sturgeon fishermen with surf rods attatch their 80lb mono to a few 20 lb weights at the bottom of the whole spread across the river and park a few boats at the head og the pool and just sit there and plunk all day with the lines strung all the way through the pool. thereby making their fishing impossible maybe kinda confrontational but i am sick to death of bozo's like you encountered Jennie.

As for them being a fw bad apples.. it seems like there are more than a few of them and their numbers are growing and gaining acceptance among mainstream fishermen..

[GutshotApe]

Don't forget to turn off the microphone on the video camera! :wink:

[The Fishing Geek]

Originally posted by Fishin Magician:
Why dont you just go down there tomorrow with Bill and sit there with your camcorder and make a home movie. Give the cops a reason to do something. I have done it before and it does work. It isnt going to do any good writing about it on the net , just go get proof and nail thier ***** ............<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">graemlins/idea.gif graemlins/idea.gif graemlins/idea.gif

[rebell]

Jen, Im sorry to hear about your experience. But you must remember what local law enforcment said on a thread a short time ago. Do not confront these people. Some of the things they said to you backs that up. You may have felt comfortable at the time, but one of those idiots could turn on you at any time. Im just concerned for your safety.

I am proud of you for going and making a stand. But please be carefull. Take Bill, your camera and Kilchis with you next time.

I would hate to see a emergency closure because of a few idiots. There are still plenty of good qaulity fish to be caught in lower tidewater and the bay. But if law enforcement feels that the situation is out of control, I will back it all the way.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. rebell

[Gus Orviston]

Jen you get all the fun...

Maybe we should institute a fishing school, 100 members of ifish step up to the hole together and pretty much plug the hole cross some lines, you know ...when in Rome. We can make a point without a fight.

How would these people respond if you just put up a tripod and camera on the bridge and and just sit and watch the antics? Would they continue their obstentsive behavior, or would they modify it a bit? Thus showing they know what is right?

gus

[Stew]

graemlins/applause.gif to Jennie!!!! That was a very courageous thing you did and I admire you for it.
I was on the Wilson this morning.At at one hole you could see the dark salmon "decorated" with various spinners,corkie and the like. We picked up a bunch of trash and some were treble hook packages.
The thing I don't understand is why bother these fish? They are almost dead for crying out loud! The quality of the meat is very poor and that's putting it mildly. So what triggers this greed thing?

[Rock Stick or Fish]

Last time I was at the Guide Shop hole I saw two fish taken by snagged gear that had been previously snagged in fish. I pulled two complete rigs out of the hole with no fish, but there was a full sand shrimp.

RSG

[Jennie@ifish]

What I did was plain stupid and wrong, but passion drove me.

For some reason, I felt more safe without Bill.
With a guy with me, they might come in and throw a punch, but would they, to a girl? Maybe I am stupid, but I just couldn't fathom that.

My best scenario was that they'd throw me in the river. Then, I could get them, at least, on assault. :smile:

No, I'm kidding... but in all seriousness, I can't say that I witnessed them snagging. I witnessed them trying, but not consistently.

My soul problem with this situation, is that the water is so incredibly low.

You could possibly get a real bite on a bobber and eggs, or a bobber and a jig, but with corkies? I dunna think so. :hoboy: It really irritates me that 20 guys line up and throw hooks at such a small area of holed up fish. It's like the dam hole on the Trask. That is closed. Why isn't this?

Every day, it's the same.... I have passed that place, every day, and I could barely make myself look.

Today, I was driven to look, to witness, and to see, plain as day, that what they are doing is ethically wrong, and unsportsmanlike.

Something deep down in me says, if you can see the fish, and the entire structure of the river bed, and the fish have no place to go, or hide, or travel-- it's not a level playing field.

Call me a greenie, if you like. When I saw those chums swimming around, and a huge weight and corkie would splash in the water on top of them, and they would spook, and quickly try and swim away... I dunno. It's a damn sin.

Go pick on someone your own size! :smile:

Jen

[ 11-28-2002, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Spooled]

Now I am mad :mad: . Those guys are giving Starbucks drinking, Cabela's wearing, Willie rowing, fancy car driving yuppie fisherman like me a bad name !

[riverraider]

kudos
Doing whats right isn't always popular. If it was, everyone would do it.

[24 on/ 48 off]

Your efforts are still deeply appreciated, Jen.

--spud-- :smile:

[PapaHog]

Jen. You have more guts than I have. I wish I could muster the courage to do what you did.

I believe that these idiots know if they are trying to catch a legal fish or trying to snag these helpless salmon. Why can"t these pooled up fish be protected when the water is so low they cannot continue what nature has called them to do. How can the law be changed to protect these fish and jail the snaggers.

This is a hot button for me and I would like a snag a snagger licence. I would like to stand on the other side of the river with a 3inch treble and see if I could snag one and drag him in the river. :mad: If he drowns he drowns. graemlins/berry.gif I would not take the hook out either just break it off and tie on another and see if I could get me another snagger.

Jenie I also believe this kind of trash would not be on ifish as that would take class.

Snaggers have no class.
Hog

[Gone Fishin]

Hey Jen,

I just saw this, call me in the morning and I'll join you and Bill with my video camera. Then we'll take the video in to Sgt. Seaholm and Rick Klumph.

Call Me!
-Marty

[Livin the Dream]

Gus is right:

"Maybe we should institute a fishing school, 100 members of ifish step up to the hole together and pretty much plug the hole cross some lines, you know ...when in Rome. We can make a point without a fight."

If anyone wants help in confronting these losers as a group please email me and I will be there.

Most of us are willing to put in the time it takes to learn how to catch our fish, legally, in moving water. These clowns are not.

Perhaps a little group persuasion will instill a little concern that maybe they should think before they rip their corkies through those fish.

I hope they do visit this site..........

LEARN HOW TO FISH DIRTBAGS!!!!!!!!!!!

AL

[Spot]

You go girl!
The Kilchis isn't the only place this happens. I've seen it on the Wilson, Necanicum and Nehalem in the last couple of weeks. I yelled at one guy after watching him walk back and forth thru a red playing a fish and then kneel on a snagged spawner to get his hook out :mad: He seemed sincerely oblivious to his unethical behavior and apologized profusely. He didn't even realize that there were bright fish in the hole above the tailout. After I landed and released a surprisingly bright, fair hooked Coho he actually thanked me.
I think Rob Allen hit the nail on the head when he said " it seems like there are more than a few of them and their numbers are growing and gaining acceptance among mainstream fishermen.." This guy was definately a product of fishing around people who didn't give a rat's #$#% about the fish they were targeting.

[fishing is life]

sorry Jen for what you experienced. But like everyboday says please be careful and maybe bring pepper spray, you never know what these guys will do especially if they see you taping them. these guys are low lives.

we at ifish may need to help the enforcement out by forming a group similar to the Guardian Angles group. we could take turns volunterring to either tie up the hole or catch snaggers in the act. if we have numbers we can clean up fishing.

[LOW WATER KILLER]

JEN YOU ROCK
we need a snagging hot line for these fools !!!! I wont even call them fishermen . more like they have no soal . 0 spirt. I would call them dead men

[Chilly one]

Good morning! WoW! Your eport again show that we need intervention from OSP Game Folks and our superior ODFW to shut things down in all the rivers along our cpast from Asoreia to the Winchuck! The Chetco was closed for a while. And there certainly is support for a closure. How do we get the "momentum" started? The weather pattern is set up for 7-10 more days a dry pattern. Let's ROLL some HEADS. This behavior will "spawn" more of this behavior. We need to stop it now! Thanks, have a great weekend....chillyone, Newport....

[Flatfish]

Jen,
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to thier level. And beat you with experience.
Hope turkey day went well..
Mark abd the well fed dog.

[V. Green]

Good going Jennie!

A few years ago a group from the Sandy Chapter ANWS had a trip from the logging bridge downriver. My brother and I almost got into a fight over how those idiots handle the fish. They were kicking the snagged chums back into the water because they didn't want to touch them.

I wish that hole would be permanently closed to fishing from August 1st until January 1st. No other hole on the river seems to get the pressure this hole does and has as many fished stacked into it. Maybe this needs to be a recomendation to ODF&W for the next round of regulation changes.

[ 11-29-2002, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: V. Green ]

[Wannabe]

Good for you Jenny..you know I mostly fish for those bass now because I got so tired of that kind of mentality on the places I loved to fish for steelhead and salmon, and when I started seeing parents teaching there kids how to do it I think I cracked. Don't get me wrong I still pursue those silver beautys now and again but very casually and in a non-competitive way. Also the bag I usually bring home is garbage. Tight Lines
&lt;)))&gt;&lt;

[Chilly one]

Jennie and fellow fishermen, I spoke at length today w/local OSP game officer in our local Newport office re: snagging today. He mentioned it's worse than ever on all of our local rivers here too!!!!! BIG TIME!!!!! He mentioned there has been discussions w/ODFW fish biologists here and they feel that ALL our local rivers and tribs have had one heck of a return of fall fish. Some are at 50 year high returns escapement of fall Chinook and the rivers will be fine for all reasons of spawn numbers!!! It sounds like it's a matter of game violations and the manpower and people it takes to take care of the violators and the fish numbers are NOT being impacted at this time. Soo we have to be good stewards and do our part individually to educate and participate to get the word out 'bout snagging and poaching. So roll up our sleeves and work on our diplomacy tactics while the rivers are being impacted with these greedy maniacs. Do what you can and protect one's self at all costs! Regards from Newport..chillyone...

[Squire]

Every day I am flabbergasted by the depths of human stupidity. People are bizarre creatures. The majority of mankind doesn't seem to follow any sort of logic in their day to day lives. Somedays I just give up on the lot of them. But I do know that there are many of us out there that still know what respect and courtesy are about even though at times it is almost impossible (for me at least) to maintain my own dignity when dealing with these sub-humans.
We all have different points of view on life, politics, etc., but there are some people that are just nasty for the sake of being nasty.

I guess the only solice is knowing that in the end perhaps we will have achieved some modicum of peace with ourselves, God (Allah, Jesus, Buddah, Krishna, Yahweh, whomever) and with those that matter most to us on this planet.

The others, I think, are destined to swirl down the pipe of their toilet bowl life.

Hope that wasn't too depressing!
:grin:

-Squire

[The Fishing Geek]

It's only depressing if they're going down my toilet bowl, because I know that my pipes won't handle excrement of that size.

[Full Freezer]

I think that this forum is just the kind of grass roots movement we need to effect some changes around the Northwest fishing scene!

Why dont we set up a Snagger hot line? We could register our cell/home phones to a particular river we have volunteered to protect and hopefully chase the snaggers away and at least lessen some of the damage inflicted. We could be armed with mega phones & vid cams. First getting footage of the carnage & then letting them know their mugs will be posted on the web for every respectable fisherperson to see. Hopefully we could get a few to see the light & at least entertain a more ethical way to fish. Of course there will be those who are impervious to peer pressure but I think it would have an overall benefit to fish & those who angle for them.

Any other ideas??? I think if all of us were commited to addressing this issue I know we could find some solutions.

Full Freezer

[AtWorkALot]

I called the hotline on Saturday. There were some WT doughballs snagging at the Jones Creek campground bridge. Worst of all, most of the fish in the hole were wild coho. We were hiking on the north side of the Wilson and saw a lots of fish. How can you find out if they got caught?

[Jennie@ifish]

I am confused.... :depressed:

I heard a rumor that they "caught" 9 bright chromers at the logging bridge on Saturday.

I had Bill go down and look at the fishing there. He said while he was there, he saw nothing illegal.

Perhaps unethical, he said, but not illegal.

It is not illegal to fish with corkies. He saw no jerking or setting the hook while he was there at all.

Yesterday, while driving past, there were about a dozen guys there, in a semi circle, standing two feet apart. Are they drifting the corkies, or letting them sit?

I feel, if they are drifting the corkies, it is better than just letting them sit, right or wrong?

I still feel it is not my style of fishing, even if what they are doing is legal. But, did I alienate myself from this crowd for no reason? Am I an idiot? :smile:

Did they catch 9 bright chromers?

Why can't they bobber fish there? Wouldn't that be more fair?

Are these fish actually biting, or swimming into the hooks?

You can see the entire bottom of the river, and every fish as you look off the bridge. With these low water levels, very few new fish will be entering the pool. Sure, some will sneak up, but not many.

Still, the guy that wouldn't try to revive the fish ticked me off, and I feel justified in my frustrating, by trying to nicely talk to them, and having them return my conversation with threats of a 12 guage...

I dunno. Just doesn't seem sporting to me... :hoboy:

[Rippin lips]

Jennie,

Good for you...In Kilchis Snaggers part 1, I wrote about confronting the snaggers. It always makes me feel better, but even more important, you hope it changes someones thoughts about doing the wrong thing again.

Good things happen to good people, and bad things happen to bad people...their day will come!

[Blackice]

Hey ifish-

Basically I do not see why those smucks are even fishing for those beat up scarred fish that are stacked in the low clear Kilches. How ethical is it to keep those fish anyways. I would never keep a fish in that condition even if it bears eggs.

peace out
J-izice

[KingFisher85]

Lets all get paintball guns and do a drive by. :hoboy: OR we could all hand load a few 12 GA shotgun shells with "rocksalt" :grin: :grin: :wink:

NO no, just joken. But I bet it would be funny to see them running around with rock salt up there you know what. :grin: