Do otters turn off the bite.........

[Fishin Magician]

I was down on the coast a few days ago and happened to see a couple of river otters swimming in the hole I was fishing. Now there were fish rolling and I had hooked fish there the day before. The only thing I can think of is that they were chasing the fish in the hole trying to catch one to eat. I cant remember ever catching a salmon in a hole with an otter in it. I talked to a friend of mine who stayed there after I left and he caught 1 fish 3 hours after I left. Do any of you know if an otter will chase a fresh 30+ lb chinook and are the fish put off by it???

[RogueFishr]

I would think an otter will spook the fish. I was sittingona railroad trussel one day watching 8 steelhead in a hole below me. Out of no where, an otter came straight into the center of the fish and smacked one fish in the side. All the fish scattered as the otter turned and chased one fish up river (the one he had hit). I have caught plenty of steelhead (more than salmon) with bites out of them that I assumed were otter. I did find that lead will turn off the otter bite, and discourage them from hasseling the fish.

RF

[Straydog]

I have experienced half pounder bites quitting when an otter appeared many times on the lower Rogue.

The late Casey Wierbinski, an old timer and friend of mine down at Illahee always told me you might as well find another hole if there are Otter working yours for Steelhead.

I don't know about Salmon though.

[ 11-24-2002, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[STGRule]

Otters are predators. They are catching fish to insure their survival. Any prey item in the vicinity of a predator will leave if possible.
RogueFishr: (Warning, Personal Opinion)Throwing things at the otter is a low thing to do. They have adapted to the salmon as a food source over a few thousand years. YOU don't need that fish to survive. (rest of rant was deleted due to inappropriate comments). (I probably should delete that part too.)

[RogueFishr]

STG,
the creek that I witnessed this on, has had an explosion in otter population in the last 6-7 years. They are taking a toll on the fish population there also. 2 years ago, I caught 17 steelhead there and 14 had bite marks out of them. I take a few otters a year out of there (with traps - legally). A local biologist has recomended I take more than that.

RF

[GutshotApe]

My 2 cents: STG is right, don't harass the otters, they were there first, etc...

Once I was sitting in my beached boat on the lower Rogue and a mother otter and several pups came swimming downstream along the bank. They had to go out around my boat and after the pups were safely 15' past, she turned around and barked at me several times, as to say "move it, buddy". A half hour later they came back upstream and the mother otter repeated her barking scolding. She wasn't happy with my boat blocking the normal route, I guess. :cool:

[Spot]

My best day of fly fishing was this year in a hole where an otter was playing. All of the fish moved to the broken water at the head of the hole. I hooked a ridiculous number of big cutts and 1 springer. If I had known that bonus fish was there I think I would have used something other than 2lb leader *%^%$#. :hoboy:

[RogueFishr]

I understand population cycles in regards to predator and prey. But, what is the difference between taking some otters out of a creek (legally) where they are obviously impacting the native steelhead population, and taking a mountain lion (legally) out of an area with a noticable decline in deer population? I would think that the deer will withstand the population decline and rebound better than the wild steelhead will. Is it because the otters are cute and fuzzy?

RF

[STGRule]

RogueFishr: There is this thing called a predator/prey relationship. When the prey base gets larger than the predator base the predators increase to keep the prey in balance. When the predator base exceeds the prey base the predators die off. It doesn't always need to be managed by humans. It takes longer when nature does it but it usually works better that way. There is always a lag in either the predator base or the prey base until it evens out for a period of time. If the biologist told you that you could take out more otters, then I hope he/she knows what they are talking about and that that is fine for that small piece of water. It may not be fine for any other piece of water so don't let anybody take what you said as a blanket license to interfere with nature.

EDIT sorry you posted stuff while I was still composing. I still think that we (humans) want things to happen faster than nature intended. If we hadn't screwed it up to begin with, we wouldn't need these "quick fixes". And any time we think we know better than what has happened up till now is hoping for a miracle.

[ 11-24-2002, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: STGRule ]

[Keta]

If the price of fur ever goes back up then there'll be too few otters.

[RogueFishr]

It may not be fine for any other piece of water so don't let anybody take what you said as a blanket license to interfere with nature.[/QB]<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I did not wish to imply that there should be an open season on otters at all. The biologist that said this, commented that there seems to be a unusually large number of otters for a stream this size. When I land 17 steelhead and 14 have bites in them, I concluded that the otter population probably is excessive. Since there is a legal harvest on otters, I do not figure I am upsetting the balance of nature too bad.

RF

[STGRule]

Just as a quick aside and ONLY as a question. How is your catching 14 alive fish with otter/seal bites worse than you catching (Killing?) 17 fish. A few animals missed a meal they needed or one person missed (if you released/ate(if you didn't) fish he/she didn't need to survive?

[RogueFishr]

Originally posted by STGRule:
Just as a quick aside and ONLY as a question. How is your catching 14 alive fish with otter/seal bites worse than you catching (Killing?) 17 fish. A few animals missed a meal they needed or one person missed (if you released/ate(if you didn't) fish he/she didn't need to survive?<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">You are the one that said I am killing the fish and competing with the otters for food. I never said that. I have not kept a fish in this particular water in over 15 years. I have spent a great deal of time on this water though, including monitoring hatchery boxes for this biologist.

RF

[STGRule]

RogueFishr: No, I asked , if you killed. There were question marks and alternative scenerios. I'm glad you let them go, but catching them is not always a stress free experience for the fish. Whatever the hooking mortality is for any given specie at any given time, you are killing something at some time by catching and releasing. (That is not always a bad thing, just a fact). An animal eating to survive is just that. You are not.

[RogueFishr]

I understand that there is a small percentage of fish that will not survive being released. I, of course, try to minimize this as much as possible. I agree with you that letting nature take its course usually works out better, although it generally takes longer. But, we are dealing with a predator and prey that both have harvest seasons and, regardless of what I believe is right or wrong, have to deal with the influence of humans as well as each other. The native steelhead also have to deal with the local redneck population that DO keep fish illegally, and imploy methods such as explosives to take fish (3 years ago - 1/2 stick of dynamite, 7 dead steelhead, 1 PO'd state cop that caught them). It seems to me that the otters will have a generally easier time of maintaining their populations than the steelhed will under the given conditions. Maybe I am wrong. Also, (and I mean this as a sincere question), how does my taking a couple otters differ from me taking cougar out of an area with a decreased deer population and an increased cat population? I agree things would probably balance out better if people weren't involved, but that is not reality.

RF

[GutshotApe]

Here's another story about otters, in case anyone likes 'em a much as I do.

Used to have an office at a large sawmill/plywood/timberlands complex in the coast range west of Eugene. Outside my window was the back of the power house and a small pond, maybe 60' in diameter, where warm waste water was dumped when the boilers overheated, or something. Anyway, whenever we had a hard freeze, the main logpond and the creek often froze over solid, and a family of otters would show up at the pond behind the powerhouse. It never froze. It contained bluegills which the otters caught with ease. I can still hear them crunching down those bluegills. They went under the surface and within just a few seconds emerged with another bluegill, crawled up on a log we put in the pond for them to use, and commenced eating. The otters created a slide down the bank into the pond and after scarfing up as many bluegills as they wanted, they sometimes took turns repeatedly sliding into the warm pond. They didn't seem to mind the cold air. :cool:

[Straydog]

Roguefisher,

Are there really rednecks around these parts???? :grin:

[RogueFishr]

StrayDog,
I have heard there were :grin: Even though I can't seem to draw the elk tag I want, I think I can get a general season Redneck tag for next year. It's going to be included in the special edition "Southern Oregon Sports Pac License" graemlins/eek13.gif

RF

[STGRule]

RogueFishr: Your taking a cat out of an area of depressed deer population is NOT any different than the otter, or coyotes, or bears or any other predator for that matter. IF, (and that is a big if) the cougar has much , if anything, to do with the depressed deer population. And in reality, the depressed deer population is again only a problem to humans that don't need the meat to survive. Hunting and fishing as a sport (not survival) needs to be based on the fact that we as humans don't need this food to survive. We do it for fun or to add to the larder, but outside of a few cases do we it as sportsmen and women, not for survival.

[Straydog]

Roguefisher,

I think we should push for a bonus tag like we have for Turkey's..... :grin:

[STGRule]

Okay, One last statement before I go to bed for the evening... I have no problem with harvesting any species that exceeds the sustainable yield. Let's just be real careful that we know what that is.

[Tilla]

If there are Otters in the hole, it's a lot like Rednecks in the hole, I move on to the next hole. :rolleyes: Two things tho', the Otters are cuter and don't play the banjo. :rolleyes:
I have really gotten far with my Biology degree as you can tell. :rolleyes:

[RogueFishr]

I will agree with that. The sustainable yeild is set by F&G and hopefully moderated by common sense and a thorough knowledge of the species.

StrayDog: with the excessive population here, I would be amazed if we don't get at LEAST 1 bonus tag, if not 2. :cheers:

RF

[otter]

graemlins/lurk.gif

[graybeard]

I was fishing for trout in an inlet on Big Lava Lake. Had just got there, and caught 2 nice trout on the first 2 casts. Third cast hooked another nice trout in about the 15 inch range. Went to net it and a brown flash appeared out of nowhere, stold the fish just as I was netting it. The otter surfaced about 15 ft. away in the shallow water, stood upright and started eating the fish right in front of me as if he didn't know I was there. Ate it just like a banana, with both hands. I fished for about an hour after that, with no bites. I've wondered since then if that otter wasn't herding the trout into the inlet so he could catch them in a smaller area.

[The Fishing Geek]

.

[ 11-25-2002, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: The Fishing Geek ]

[Applegate]

Yes, otters will put off a bite.

[Fishin Magician]

Wow---- Lots of otter lovers here....... I think they are pretty cool to watch. If I need to move to another area to catch a fish so be it.

[Keta]

I was trapping for otter and beaver on Upper Klamath Lake in the early '80's and caught a large trout in a 330 conabear trap! Same week I caught a large otter in a 1-1/2 longspring trap set for rats, had it by one toenail.

[lost_sailor]

I always like to watch the otters on the upper Deschutes. They're usually chomping on crawdads. They do spook the fish.

[GL2]

Inflammatory statements.

[ 11-25-2002, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[GL2]

More inflammatory statements.

[ 11-25-2002, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[Tagster]

Wow...that is quite a post.

:hoboy:

[boater]

if you like otters go fish below a hatchery where the hatchery fish have helped rebuild the otter population, if you dont like them fish above a hatchery where there`s very few wild fish to support them, if you dont like otters or hatcherys or wild fish then close the hatcherys, the high population of otters will eat the very few remaining wild fish that are left then the otters will die off, then these anti hatchery guys will all stand by the river and wonder what happened to all the fish.

[Tilla]

The fish are probably in some nets somewhere. :rolleyes: