Anchors away...

[Applegate]

Here in So. Oregon we seem to have had substantial increase in the inconciderate use of anchors. The middle Rouge is not a large river by any means, and the pressure on the resource continues to increase. Many guides and private boaters have started to "drop the hook" in the prime holes and try to camp on them. For the previous thirtysomething years of boating this river, everyone would rotate the good water in turn so everyone had a shot at the fish. I have tried to reason with some of these people and been told that since they were there first we would need to move on. Well now.....if telling someone nicely the first time does not work, I will generally try to convince them again that everyone should get a shot at the fish. I don't know what part of river ediquette I am missing, but last year I had an up-river guide tick me off so bad that I threatened to cut his anchor rope. Told me this was his hole and there were plenty of other ones to fish. We had taken 2 nice chinook before he arrived and anchored over the fish and not above them. Anyway enought ranting. Where do other driftboaters stand on the anchor issue. For me an anchor is not a fishing tool.

[Salmonator]

Sometimes I think it sucks but if somebody gets there first and wants to drop anchor you're SOL. If you want it then get there before him. This problem comes up all the time and there's no way we're all gonna be on the same page so there's no sense flapping our wings over it. Now if I moved out of the hole to land a fish and somebody comes in behind me and drops anchor then there's going to be a problem... graemlins/icon_argue.gif

[ 11-22-2002, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: Salmonator ]

[RogueFishr]

I agree with you. The middle Rogue is not that large, and a couple anchored boats can screw up fishing for a lot of boats. I have come into a hole with no one around and dropped anchor to take a break off the oars and fish. But if another boat shows up, the anchor comes up and the oars go back out. I lost a salmon on a guides anchor rope 2 years ago. The guide wasn't even fishing, he was re-rigging a rod. We 'discussed' the situation and almost went to blows over it. If I want to fight, I will go to a bar, not the river. Nobody owns the hole. On a river the size of the middle Rogue, if you are the only boat (or just a couple boats), anchor up if you want. But, if there is a lot of boats, keep the anchor up and work it so everyone can get a shot at it.

RF

[SandySteel]

I try not to anchor if someone else is behind me. I often will fish through and then let them have a shot and then row back up in the slow water to give it another shot. I have enough confidence in my techniques that I know I can catch fish in a hole after someone else has fished there. I will usually use a different technique then they did unless they hooked up.

I am a reasonable person but if someone drops anchor in the middle of water I am fishing it would not be pretty what I might just say. It depends on who is around. If it is a group of men I might let it fly. If kids and women were around I would have more restraint.

Needless to say, in situations where pressure is high ethics often go out the window and so does patience.

Others might throw lead, attempt to foul up their fishing gear, foul their anchor line and pull it out.... but not me... I am Mr. Nice Guy. I might think about doing something like that but I don't have the build to back it up and it would only make a bad situation worse.

Can a guide be held accountable for their actions by anyone? Their sponsors? The agency that licenses them? Getting videotape of someone is pretty powerful these days.

[ 11-22-2002, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: SandySteel ]

[KingFisher85]

I think that its first come gets the spot. But like Salmonator said, if you cut lose to boat a fish and someone comes in and takes your spot, well then theirs going to be a problem. No one owns the river.
But if someone says that they own that body of water, ask them were's the paper work, I want a piece of this river too. or you can say something like that. :hoboy:

[Thumper]

I am confused. If someone pulls anchor to fight a fish, why do they have the right to come back and take their position again?

[Fishalot]

I would say that if you are in a drift boat and you pull anchor you don't have the right to come back and expect that spot. Even if that person could row back up river. I have never heard or seen it happen.

Fishalot

[SandySteel]

I tend to agree with you. I think pulling an anchor when you are working a hole leaves the hole open. I don't anchor when someone is behind me though. I let them fish through but would be upset if they anchored up after I let them in and I want to have another shot at the hole.
What would be the response on the big river in a hog line? Does having a buoy out entitle one to the same spot again? Can you imagine if someone pulls off their buoy to fight a fish and someone else pulls into their spot? I realize it is a different situation but the same principle. Funny how things change with just a few gear adjustments.

[Fishalot]

I can see it now. Ha man you can't park your car there, why not, because I was there and had to run to the store for some smokes. After all I was there first. I'm sure that would go over real well :shocked: . It's that kind of thinking that makes people pack side arms like I have seen on the Wilson recently. You got one fish while setting on a hole, so when and if you have to pull anchor while fighting a fish move on and let others fish it.
Now lets keep in mind that we are talking about rivers like the Wilson, Clackmas, Sandy you get my drift. On a major River where you use a anchor float and don't pull anchor that is different.

Fishalot

[Silver Hilton]

If an anchor float makes the difference, buy a crab pot buoy, and use it for an anchor float. But I don't think that addresses the basic problem.

I'm not familiar with what good manners are on the Rogue, and they differ from river to river. Anchoring in a hole where people normally backtroll is pretty much always rude, and the person usually knows it. You can tell by whether they make eye contact. If they are obviously transgressing, I think a question along the lines of, "Hey buddy, why are you screwing the hole up for everybody?" is in line. If enough people ask, he'll get the point.

If there's a guide involved, I don't talk to the guide, I talk to his clients. I tell them that their guide is being rude and inconsiderate, knows better and is being a jerk anyway, and that they are keeping a sphincter in business. The guide isn't going to change his behavior right then, but anything that causes him to even think he's going to lose business will hit home. You don't need to be rude, just direct and firm.

Unfortunately, there are a few 'guides' out there who succeed in catching their clients fish by being more rude and aggressive than the other fisherfolk out there. I had the misfortune of hiring such a person out of the guide shop many years back. I spent part of the day listening to him berate the other fishermen on the Trask when they got too close to 'his' spot, and finally told him to take me in early. We had a bit of a discussion about why there was no tip.

Now, this all said, I sometimes like to fish from an anchor. When I do so in a small river I try to do so considerately. I'll usually do so in a slot near a bank, use a short rope above, and fish short lines below so I don't take up too much water. I don't get all grouchy if someone backtrolls down next to me, or free drifts next to me. If someone backtrolling gets a fish on near you, being ready to roll the rods in or even to lift anchor would be nice.

I definitely don't row into a line of backtrolling boats and drop the hook midway into the run. But conversely, if I'm anchored eight feet from the bank and there's lots of room to fish around me, I'm not going to feel like I'm ruining the river for everyone. And again, I don't know the Rogue, and conditions may be different there.

A smile and a wave to those who come by does a lot to reduce tension.

[ 11-22-2002, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: Silver Hilton ]

[Dan Christopher]

I am confused. If someone pulls anchor to fight a fish, why do they have the right to come back and take their position again? <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">they do, after i and the people in line behind me fish it. When we are done.

all this slamming of guides, when most that i have seen are the nicest politest people out there. 1 in 25 may be bad if that. there are a lot more bad weekend warriors then guides. if you see a guide don't slam him in front of his cliants. talk to him at the boat ramp or call him (nicely) and tell him you have a problem with something he does..you wouldn't like it if someone came to your work and slammed you in front of yours cliants.if its an on going problem that you have talked to him about feel free and screem,at least you tied first.

i have also seen more weekend warrior boats tying up the docks then guides.once again if it is a guide ( call him and be nice,it will get you farther ).if its a weekend warrior walk over and explain your point, he may not know the problems he is causing....

yes, there are some bad guides, but to lump them in the same boat is wrong. same as them saying all weekend warriors are bad.

Moral of the story.
be nice people.i am getting to much hate out of this thread.

just my 2 cents :cheers:

[rebell]

This is a hot topic all over the N.W. Is there an easy solution? Probably not, but here are a couple of ideas to think about.

First would be that being mobil catches more fish. Any good angler will tell you that you will catch more fish on the oars than on anchor, that includes fishing one paticular hole.

Rowing through a hole or backtrolling on the motor will get more bites. Then returning to the top of the hole and doing it again is always the proper thing to do. Sharing is a good thing. Beleive in Carma? You should!

It's to bad that the crowds on many of are small coastal rivers are recieving so much pressure that people feel that they must secure a spot for the day by camping on anchor. Most times they are hurting themselves and all the other anglers on the river.

I have shared holes with other boats by taking turns rowing through a hole, only to have some so called sporstmen come down behind us and drop anchor on top of the water we were just sharing. And then lay claim to it for the day.

What can you do? I dont like conflict, so I move on.

Let's all just try to get along out there and share the water. Im sure you will find many more freinds, and catch a lot more fish.

And go easy on the guides everyone. Over the years they have been the ones offering to share an area with me.

[ 11-22-2002, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: rebell ]

[rags]

I've been driftboating Oregon rivers for over 30 years and there is a whole lot more db's now than back when I started. If the river allows you can certainly anchor to the side of a run leaving enough room for other boats to pass behind you and drift fish a hole. Several boats can anchor along the bank. The problem I see especially on the Wilson is people anchoring on top of the hole bachbouncing. If you are going to backbounce a hole stay off the anchor and make a good pass leaving the hole for other boats. Otherwise anchor to the side and drift fish it.

[TheTexan]

Hey Wiz,

Not trying to start an arguement, but you seem to be doing the same thing by "feeling the hate" and bashing the people posting. I see in some of the threads reference to "a few guides and private boaters", "some guides", and "a guide". I don't see anyone saying "all guides" do this. If there are guides that do this they will get theirs. What comes around goes around and people do notice who the few are that are rude and pushy. The good guides are friendly and polite, if I were a paying customer I would not appreciate my guide arguing with other fisherman. Most people that are using a guide are there not only to fish, but also to have a good time. A guide yelling and arguing with other fisherman does not sound like a good time.

I appreciate threads like this one, because being new to the area and a new DB owner, I need to know what I can and should do. I would hope that if I meet you on the river you would first tell me what I am doing wrong, if I do it again then yell it at me!!!

[Dan Christopher]

ex-tex
sorry if i came of as bashing anyone, i was just tring to make a point that in % i think there is more trouble with the non guides,atleast were i fish.
I would hope that if I meet you on the river you would first tell me what I am doing wrong, if I do it again then yell it at me!!!
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">i would never yell at you or anyone ,not my style.

on to the point of anchoring.if it isnt packed i will anchor as long as i am away from the crowds. or- jig fishing or have to do a gear tie for a front seater with no one around, then some one comes along,they can wait tell i am done or go around.i still stand by first come ,first serve,but i try and make it fishable to everyone. :cheers:

[Catch 22]

When the day comes that I have to hog a hole, yell profanities, get in fights or ruin other people's fishing experiences to guide, I will quit guiding.
As a guide, I pay no more for my fishing liscense than anyone else. I have no more rights than anyone else. It affords me some priviledges with equipment manufacturers, but no priviledges out on the river. I want to see the people in my boat have a good time. Just as I want to see the people in the neighboring boats having just as good of a time.
We as guides should be good stewards of the rivers. There are some that are not and I can't and won't apologize for them. They know what they are doing is wrong. They are the same kind of people that own the road when they drive. They are just inconsiderate people and the guide industry has no monopoly on them. Some of these old timers don't just try to bully recreational fisherpeople anymore. They try to bully other guides out of their holes. I have had guides tell me that they have priority to fish certain holes because they have been guiding longer. So if I've had my drivers liscense longer would you move your car so I could park where you did?
If you're going to try to badmouth a guide in front of his clients, please be sure he is doing something worthy of such an action. Base it on his actions not his occupation as not all guides are the same.

Now stepping off my soapbox.

[Dan Christopher]

Catch 22
graemlins/applause.gif

man your getting closer to that open seat every minute ..i will talk to ugly green tomorrow. :cheers:

[ 11-23-2002, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: MADWIZERD ]

[Thick-N-Thin]

No wonder there are as many problems on the the river as you all mention. Just as it is obvious here, on the river everyone has there idea as to what the proper etiquette is.

I don't think threatening to cut another fisherman's anchor is very proper either, just because you may think you are right. Someone threatens me....That sure in the hell isn't going to move me!

[ 11-23-2002, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: Thick-N-Thin ]

[Applegate]

Apologies to guides everywhere!!!!!! As we all know 5 percent of the population screw it up for the rest of us. I referenced a guide in the start of this thread only because his beligerence or greed succeeded in putting my anger level way to high on the river. None of us goes fishing with the goal of getting ****** off at one another, thats not what its about. Sliver Hilton, I tend to think your response outlined proper river ediquette very well. If all who employed their anchor were as kind as yourself we would not have any problems.

[Straydog]

Well said Catch 22. :cheers:

Let me put my neck on the chopping block.

I fish a sled and so far haven't put out for a kicker so do a lot of boondogging. Sometimes though I will anchor off to the side of a hole and drift fish it. When I am doing this and another boat approaches I will reel in, set my rod down and motion the boat through to fish the slot and would expect him to do it a couple of times if he wants. I rarely hear too much guff, but on occaision have invited folks to FOAD.

Given the conflicts described above I make a point to NOT fish where the boats are thick and the bite is said to be best. I have caught a whole lot of fish in my life and feel the trade off is ok since I am out there to get away from stress and conflict and I still catch my share.

Will I go to fish hell or fish heavan? It is seeming more and more like you are "damned of you do and damned if you don't" given all of the people and all of the different opinions of right and wrong.

One final word, one poster said if you want the hole to get there earlier but if he has the hole and pulls anchor he expects the hole back?!? I say if you want to keep the hole, don't pull anchor and leave it.

[TheTexan]

Wiz,

I agree with your philosophy 100% and I am glad there are those like you willing to share your knowledge. I have learned a lot from this board and will continue to do so.

It is easy to spot the people that have good info. and are trying to help vs. those that are just being a horses a__! I usually always read your posts and wasn't used to you coming across that way.

Thanks! :wink:

[Plum Crazy]

Added ? for you. I fish the Clackamas religiously year round and don't do to much anchoring unless It's retie time or lunch ect. But a friend told me It was illegal to anchor due to the owner of the river rules. Sorry about the ignorace but I can't really get the straight answer any help???
P.S. Back to the Beav's
Fire :cheers:

[Catch 22]

This is the way I was told it is on the Clack. I am not a lawyer, just a local fisherman for 21 years.

The Clack is a federally non-navigable river. Which means that the property owners own to the middle of the river or channel. They do not own the water or necessarily even have any rights to it unless agriculture rights were otherwise gandfathered. You are trespassing if wading in the water in front of a home without permission. However, I take achoring from a floating boat a little too far. I respect people's property rights and have never had a problem. I don't really like fishing in someone's livingroom window anyway. I haven't heard of someone getting cited for anchoring in the Clack. I do know of one place where if you anchor, the homeowner will yell at you, but I never have had it happen to me. As I said, it's kind of about respecting people's property.

[Dan Christopher]

fire in the hole
But a friend told me It was illegal to anchor due to the owner of the river rules <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">on some rivers the land owners deeds say they own to the middle of the river including the steam beds.but not the water.There for dropping and anchor would be illegal because the anchor would be on there land.
now to what part if any of the clack property owners have these deeds??? i don't know. i know a lot of the upper sandy and some coast streams are this way.

maybe someone else can give you better info. on the clack.. :cheers:

[Plum Crazy]

Thanks 22,
I'm sure I've seen you or talked to ya out there my schedual allows me non weekend fishing. You'll know me if ya see my boat. any hoo thanks I don't do much and do as you do not anchor infront of those few homes just for the pure respecting other idea. I haven't had any problems atleast on the clack but then again I only fish it mon- fri. unless an 8-5er buddy beggs me..... See ya on the water especally past Nov.
Fire :cheers:

[Plum Crazy]

Thanks MW,
I know that I never have had the problem In fact have anchored up a few time to B.S. with some land owners about fishin and everyone has been cool. My for years owned a house up at Paradise Park and only used to talk about the River Rat Rafters that would leave their messes on the beach in front of his house. Otherwise unless I think a land owner is fishing and We anchor up next to him/her then it takes us back to the original ???? Then just pick up and move on with an appology who be my answer. Thanks again :cheers:
Fire

[rebell]

This has been a good and bad thread.

Good, because some have taken the time to educate some on proper river ediquete. If someone has to pull anchor to land a fish, it is not right to move in and take that spot. Put yourself in the lucky anglers position that had to pull anchor.

Bad because most of this thread has just exposed the ignorance of most boaters. I hope all of you read this thread and try to understand why it is important to share the water you are fishing, and respect others water that they are fishing.

A final thought, instead of dropping your anchor in the middle of the river, row through it. Then row back to the top of the hole off to the side. Then repeat. If someone comes down behind you, offer them a shot. Then continue to take turns. I have done this many times over the years with guides and weekend anglers. Nothing but positive things came out of it, like making new freinds. :smile:

[Salmonator]

Originally posted by Thumper:
I am confused. If someone pulls anchor to fight a fish, why do they have the right to come back and take their position again?<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I guess I should explain this differently. If I anchor in a hole I never have a problem with another boat or boats anchoring up and fishing the hole with me (I've never had the mindset that I owned any hole on the river). And similar to hoglining at Ranier or OC, if a good fish gets hooked then it saves everybody some fishing time if I land the fish below the line. If somebody anchors where I was previously because I was showing others some courtesy then yes I want the spot back whether I had an anchor bouy out or not.

[Lockjaw]

Every year I go to the Elk and Sixs for afew days. A no anchor rule would be good here. In low water years its a mess. Two years ago boats where left on anchor all night, and keep the hole for two weeks.The same year the guy that has the lodge on the elk took the hole a mile below his house with two or three other guide boats. A boat anchored out side of them with two older men in it . I thought, well its good their letting other boats fish too. A hour latter the two guys in the private boat came by and said thay hooked a fish, the guy from the lodge gets out of this boat and grabs the older fishermans line,and ties him off on a log!!!! :mad: My point is on a small river, a no anchor law would be a good change. :smile:

By the way, most of the giudes are good to fish around down there. Its just afew bad ones.

L J

[FishinMission]

Couple of things here. If you want to be in the "pole" position (har har)you should be there first. There was a guide that used to put his boat in a very popular spot on the Clackamas about mid April, and take it out probably about mid June. I used to get up at O Dark thirty to beat him there...but I'd always find his boat anchored in the slot, with someone snoozing away on board. There was NO way you were gonna get that spot.

There's conflict here about moving around, or hogging a hole. We all know fish move from point A to point B. They can be found in-between those points. But sometimes Point B is better because fish may stack there.

Then word gets out, then there's even MORE competition. This is what's happening here in this case.

A good example of what "Talking" will get you.

I despise combat fishing...sounds like you do to. You can either be a part of it, and accept the consequences, or do like some of us others do...and go find a nice honey hole that most of the fish are passing thru on their way to point B.

Increasing pressure, and increasing rudeness that comes with it are signs of the times.

I'd recommend looking for alternate fishing water.

My 2 cents worth.

Mark

[Lockjaw]

Thanks Mark for your in put. And I agree with what you said. I'v been going to work at 3AM for many years, putting in at 4 or 5AM is sleeping in for me. So if I want a hole I'll get agood start and get it most times. I do use my anchor, and any one that comes along can fish with me . That being said ,it would be better fishing for all if no one anchored on some of the smaller rivers. :grin:

L J

[Thumper]

After about 40 years of fishing the mouth of the Lewis and the upper river I have come to the conclusion that 90% of the "offenders" are newbies. In the upper river everyone should keep moving or anchor off to the side a ways. At the mouth there are obvious hogline areas up near the daymarkers and obvious trolling areas out near the cut. The guides are usually the most courteous and considerate folks on the river. And the newbies are also just fine once they learn the "rules of the road". When in doubt, ask.......