Zipperlip Question

[PapaHog]

Just wondering out loud.

When I read that someone just caught a nice zipperlip on the zipperlip river at the zipperlip hole with a zipperlip lure or bait I just shake my head. Unless it was like the big zipperlip joke thread a couple weeks ago then I laugh.

However I find it funny that being a zipperlip on a fishing fourm about tactics or places is suspose to help our sport.

I believe that the new to fishing or new to the aera is not being helped very much by this.

It feels like to me that you who do this are whispering behind my back or keeping me out of the know, excluding me and others from the forum. I have read "(moniker here) the same zipperlip river you saw me on last week".
It seems to me that is what email is all about not a fishing forum that is designed for the the support and betterment of the sport we all love.

I am ever learning and open minded about this and am just trying to understand this fourm tactic.

But most of all I just want to understand and not get everyone mad at me. If I stumble around in the dark (not being enlightened by fellow ifishers) and find a great fishing hole and red hot procedures and post them here so that others may bennifit from my experiences am I wrong??? stupid maybe?

Please tell me how this zipperlip stuff helps our sport. I love this sport.

I love ifish.net
Hog

[Fishing freak]

WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[I Fred]

Hallelujah Brother, well said ,I too don't understand sometimes. A very good question to bring up. :cheers:

[No Wishin Just Fishin]

Zipperlip is prob used too much on this forum!1 BUT then if we told everyone about a 10 fish day in a certain hole there would be 20 guys camping out there the next morning. Best not to mention it at all if you have to say zipperlip. :grin:

[The Fishing Geek]

http://www.thefishinggeek.com/images/deadhorse.jpg

[excuse me]

I agree that less known fishing places or rivers that don't get many fish and relatively less crowded should not be broadcast over the internet. I think those ideals would meet a consensus agreement among the serious fishermen on this board.

But that doesn't answer your question about why so many turn around use the term zipper or zipperlip on these fishing forum boards when making a report. The only thing I can think of is that part of the fun of these forums is to do a little bragging about your catch? Nothing wrong with that. But it might be less frustrating to others if they would at least lie about catching them at a popular well known area that has fish present, instead of sticking the zipper in your face? :wink: Or maybe I'm way off and there are other reasons?

[FishinMission]

While some us here like to fish...we also like to NOT BE AROUND a whole bunch of people. Sure...you're gonna have your spots that are popular...that everybody goes to.

But there are certain things you won't learn here on the board...like how to "drift fish" for example. Practice makes perfect. Practice on the water. Time spent on the water. Awareness... Experience.

Some of us old timers have endured the combat fishing zones and have chosen to go off and explore new water. And I for one have had unbelievable success in the last two years in totally new...unfished waters where no-one is around. Nice, peaceful...just the way I like it.
And just the way I wanna keep it.

I guess I may tend to not offer the information now, as I've been a member here for almost 2 years, and have posted tips, and techniques frequently over the course of seasons. You kinda just get tired of typing the same thing over and over. Maybe Jen ought to have "Search" qualifying to all new members??

There's a wealth of knowledge here if you know how to use the search function. You don't have to look down upon us zipperlippers, as all the information you need is right here at your fingertips.

Get it??

Mark

[excuse me]

Got it. I wasn't way off. :smile:

[BUGLEMAN]

I will not use zipperlip any more. I think the term is exclusionary and rude. From now on if I have a good day at a secrete place I will try just make a report and post pics of the great day had

[ryleysmom]

I have to agree with you on this one papahog!!
You said it!!! :smile: :cheers:

[ 11-22-2002, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: fisherlady76 ]

[ragjr]

I agree papa, but don't we all have a place that we do not anybody else to know about. I do but there are others that do know about it.
one of my favorites was in a magazine last year, bummed me out have not been there sence but I will this winter.

[ampersat]

to me, when someone says, "i had a great day at the zipperlip", what they're really saying is they know more than some other folks and they're not willing to share. it's like standing up on the tallest mountain and screaming "I'VE GOT A SECRET!" it's about getting attention.

i've found that the folks with class around here will say, "i had a great day on the upper sandy" or "mid willamette" or whatever, and leave the zipperlip out of it. you don't have to tell me how many feet east of which buoy or what rock you were standing on when you hooked 7 and landed 5. just knowing that someone caught some fish on a particular river is all i need to know. and it's not like i've got any zipperlips myself. i fish the same areas that get pounded when the crowds come out to play.

[riverrat]

excellent posts.....i agree with all points on this thread and can relate....i would like to add a few thoughts.....1.) people often lie and will lie to protect their honey hole.....we all have our favorite spots...2.) people are not like sheep and are not stupid....i wouldn't think that a mad rush to a hot hole would happen....perhaps to a area that has fish holding....ie: tidewater, upper rivers etc....3.) if it is absolutely important to use the zipperlip phrases, start a "zipperlip only" thread.....

[PapaHog]

FishingMission, I did not try to offend you or others on this board.

I only stated my feelings and thoughts on something that I thought was not good for a fishing forum. And not good for the sport or the website I have come to love.

I have only been fishing for 50 years and fishing in Oregon rivers for salmon and steelhead since 1972. However I always feel that I can learn from the vast knowledge that is present everyday on this forum.

I have probably learned more from this website in the last 2 years than on the river in 15 years.

I feel that if I keep on doing what I have been doing I will keep getting the same results. NOT GOOD MOST YEARS. However I am open minded and have learned much in the last 2 years. I am getting better results thanks to help from ifishers. I would never do anything that would hurt ifish.net.

So I would hope that all who have knowledge would find a way to share what you know with us who do not know as much. In a manner that dose not make us feel unwanted or not included.

I hope some of this made sense.
Hog

PS I am sorry if I ask stupid questions.

[Hogmaster]

This is interesting because there are some good points being brought up.

Look, guys and girls, there are over 4000 hits each day on this site these days. If you post something like, "We hoglined right in front of the bulkhead below the mouth of the Clack on the Willamette and slammed the springers, in fact saw over 35 fish caught today" and think that it will not effect the pressure on that spot tomorrow you are pretty niave.

If only 1% of the 4000 read that and decide to change plans there will be 40 more people there the next day! And they will tell friends and family and not come alone. I know. I have seen it happen. I have done it myself. So have many of you. You can call it sheep but it is also true that we all want to be where the fish are when the bite is on!

Frenchmen's Bar is a classic example of that. I did not ever go there this summer, but those of you that did, let me ask: How many of you had fished there before last summer for URBs? While I am sure some had, I am just as sure many many did not. And that was a general spot on a large river.

Again, think about the post of, "We just slammed 'em and saw a bunch more caught right above the Hospital Hole!" Think the Trask can handle the 1% (or 2% or 5%) "uplift" in pressure on a spot?????

That is why fishermen having success get very hesitant on posting locations...

But as far as the "zipperlip" thing, you are probably right that it involves a certain amount of bravado. Maybe what can work is mentioning the launch or at least river section being fished, sort of like when you come in and the folks around you see your catch at the ramp. Again though, this is not just a couple of folk, but indeed thousands looking over the catch!

But since the word "zipperxxx" seems to be causing consternation, I personally will avoid using it going forward.

On another note, many of the "old timers" have been a wealth of information on several topics relating to methods and techniques. And now that I have been around for awhile I see what is meant about the topics coming up over and over, especially by the newbies. But a couple of things to remember are that;
1) (apologies to Jenn) The search engine here is not always accurate. If you don't believe me try a few searches on topics you are faamiliar with. Often times all the postings don't come up.

2) And more importantly, people want to make posts and interact with others. Reading the searches to become an expert is sorta contrary to the enjoyment of the fun part about ifish. The mixing it up with people. If you see the same topic being asked about and an answer is fundamentally wrong in your view, you can always "be a librarian" and do the search for the answer that was posted in an earlier thread and link or paste it in. That would be socially responsible.

3) If it really is nothing gained and all given, and that doesn't sit well, then why bother being here at all? I am not trying to attack anyone here, please understand. It is just if someone is an excellent fisherperson and he/she reads this board, there will be many more opportunities to post giving out knowledge repeatedly that to gain knowledge. Either that has to be accepted or the forum shouldn't be used.

I wish everyone the best success in their piscatorial pusuits!

:cheers:

[Wood N' Fish]

Just ignore the zipperlip stuff. Pretty boring--- :rolleyes:

[corky23]

You could use The Notellum river instead if zipper lip
:sleep: :sleep:
later,
kris

[PapaHog]

Hogmaster, Good Post. Good information. Thanks.

PISCATORIAL ???? Had to get out my dictionary. Wow it is a word. :shocked:

I like it
Hog

[metalhead madness]

Ampersat and Hogmaster have excellent points and I agree entirely. Being a transplant from southern oregon I've only fished here about 3 yrs. The info provided on this board has helped me a great deal. Even though I don't have to know exactly where, but what is more important to me. I've fished a long time and can read water with the best of them. "Great day on the clack hammered em with blue pirate red bill. 8 hooked 5 landed. Water is up alittle and pea soup green. Good Luck". These are the reports that really help people. We didn't say what part of the river just that it is producing. I'm a firm beliver in finding your own water. It took me 2 yrs before I landed my first steelhead. Part of the experience was finding her. please keep the info coming as far as what works and what doen't. As to where, body of water is fine. In closing I would like to thank those who haved helped me on sturgeon technics. This is a new fishery for me and the kids and I are really enjoying it while we wait for the winters to come in. THANKS :cheers:

[boater]

Originally posted by FishinMission:
While some of us here like to fish
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">i think that says it all.

[ 11-23-2002, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: boater ]

[Flatfish]

I am on the fence. It depends where, and what the fish are. Bouy 10 is a well known place, and is a no brainer. The Wilson is too. But the Wilson has , more or less, 2 drifts. From the guide shop down( there is another put in just above the bridge and it will extend your drift by a mile or two but it is not a full drift in itself) and Vanderzanden to the guide shop. Now if I give a report to the 4000 folks here (I bet it is more than 4000, I know more lurkers than posters) and announce that I fished the Wilson today and killed em, it aint brain surgery to figure out that if 40(conservative number at times) folks show up it is a rather large increase in pressure. If word gets out on exactly which drift I did, it could make tomorrow less than fun. Winter steelhead are another example of a good time to zipperlip. Because these fish move in pods, it is simple to predict their whereabouts on todays reports. If you want a multi fish day tomorrow, best to keep it quiet today. If not, even if there are a bunch of fish available, you may not be able to get to them thru the crowds.The smaller coast rivers (too small for a jet sled small) are already hit pretty hard. To add to this pressure takes away from your experience.
Many of the small coast rivers are already hit pretty hard. I do not fish the Wilson anymore because of the extreme pressure. I have learned that many people do not( will not or cannot is a better term) row a drifter thru tough water. Because of this, I have started to row thru some challenging waters to get some peace. I am rarelly alone. But it is not crowded in these skinny fast waters. The downside of this thinking is I may have to rope thru some falls/chutes, and the risk factor is increased exponentially in accessing these waters. For me the solitude is worth it. I refuse to post these places because I have worked more than 20 years in discovering them,and if a less experienced oarsman were to attempt some of them, it is simply a matter of time til they sink thier boat. I can live with sunk boats, but lives risked by an uneducated individual chasing a pot of gold is not worth it.
That statement in itself is why I zipperlip.It seems that many folks want to read the secret technique or location and be a succesful angler. It simply don't work that way. Learn how to chase your quarry well and you can do well any place in the world.But if you have no idea of proper presentation, then secret spots are worthless to you. I can catch fish on the Wilson. I choose to fish other places because quiet is part of the reason I fish. 9 out of 10 folks on the Wilson will not catch a fish. It matters not where thay fish. They could not catch fish anyplace else.
I am a steelheader. I have caught salmon, but I am far from good at salmon. This spring, I had the location down, and technique explained to me.I skunked. I will continue to chase springers.If I catch fish it will be luck mixed with input from more experienced folks than me. But steelhead are my game. Put me on any river with fish in it, and I am in the hunt. Until you can make that claim about your skills, no matter the species,then hot reports are only location.Presentation is the name of the game. Don't beleive me? Fish behind Buzz Ramsey sometime on the coast.He can catch steelies anywhere.
If it is a big river thing, then I will name the river.But that is all.If you are good, you will catch fish.
I hope you all have as much fun learning to fish as I am.But I would rather tell you how then where. I have conservatively driven 100,000 miles learning the rivers we speak of here.I could not learn what I have on a chatboard. Get out and fish.
Mark and the dog.

[corky23]

Fishinmission and flatfish have hit the nail on the head :cheers: There is absolutely no subistute for time on the water.

[Silver Hilton]

I think a point that has been missed in the beating of this dead horse is this. We like to hang out here because we like to talk about fishing with people who also like to talk about fishing. While we like to talk about it, we still want a little seclusion on the river itself. This isn't new - I have a 35 year old book by Jim Conway who talks about his philosophy on giving steelheading advice. His words, "How to, always, where to, never." So this phenomenon is not new to the internet.

These boards are fun because they let you associate with people of a like mind that you haven't met yet. The problem is, they are populated with people of a like mind that you haven't met yet. And, as Hogmaster points out, there are more than a few of us. Though perhaps not as many as the 4000 hits would indicate. If everyone hits 5 times a day, like me, its only 800 people.

The board creates an inevitable conflict between our desire to socialize and yes, to brag a bit, and to protect our relative solitude at the spots we like. This ain't gonna change.

The word, "Zipperlip" is grating simply because it bares what is happening. It is tangible evidence that we are socializing with folks that we aren't friendly enough with to share the full meal deal. Or maybe a better analogy is that we are socializing, using a megaphone, in a stadium.

In addition to the annoying word itself, sometimes it is used by people who, for one reason or another, use it with other words that could be construed as being hostile or exclusionary. Such is the nature of electronic communication. It's easy to be inadvertently a jerk on the Internet. It's a rare person who has the time, typing skills and speed, and the turn of a phrase to successfully say just what he or she means, just they way that he means it, all the time.

I have found it rare that someone is as big a jerk in person as his e-mail or post made it seem. So, let's just assume the best about someone, and let this stuff go.

[ 11-23-2002, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: Silver Hilton ]

[Mrdorkfish]

Hogmaster,Flatfish,Silver Hilton, No time to read the bla bla bla......too much info.....get to the point.....Everyone knows for example there are fish in the Comumbia, from July to late Oct. there is Coho available in the Columbia and Chinook are everywhere....Whatever you said...If you see a concentration of boats and know there are fish available...Just fish.....NO ZIPPERLIP stuff going on here...If you know what you are doing and where to go....charge your battery and spend the night....fish fish fish...i know....."whatever Mrdorkfish" don't respond....(you're scared) ALL MAJOR RIVERS hold fish winter,spring,summer and fall...all you have to do is call.....go after them...You can fish wherever you want...You still have to get up earlier than me..and know where to drop that pronged piece of metal. Good luck and hope you get skunked :tongue:

Mrdorkfish

Louis

[pkg40]

Seems pretty simple to me. If you post here, it is because you want to share information with the whole community. If you don't want to share, don't post. If you are just going to say "hey I caught fish", don't waste everyone elses time. If you are trying to communicate to a subset of the community, use email.

[SandySteel]

I think the issue is simple. People like to brag but don't want to increase the pressure.

Here is what I do. Either I will just give the general area or I will show the picture or say what I did but I don't reveal the spot in the post. I then will say if you want to know where and how to email me. That avoids the leaching lurkers from just getting the info, it gets shared with ifishers who have the initiative to email me, and I can still enjoy myself in relative peace.

However, I rarely post reports about my fishing largely because with a 21 month old daughter and a new house I really haven't been out fishing much. :wink:

[The Bad Fish]

like fishin mission said , i like it peaceful ,, i fished the combat zone and that is definatley not somewhere i want to take joni. if you are married remember this quote

"if momma aint happy . nobody gonna be happy "

i did research drove, the pickup, asked locals for land access, and ive got lucky. just ask.. good luck.. kb

[fishbait]

PapaHog, some good posts here that I hope answered your question. I will always chime in on a how to or a help me post but seldome post about my fishing trips for the reasons given above. I too do not care for the term zipperlip but totally understand and practive the concept. I have places that I fish that I do not talk about in public and for the last 10+ years have only fished them with 2 or 3 people and plan on never taking anyone new to them. All it takes it to tell one wrong person, then next time he's there with his neighbor then his neighbor is there with his buddie and soon there are a dozen or more people fishing where you used to seldome see another footprint or boat.

[excuse me]

pkg 40's post hit it on the head. It is simple. The strong need of some to brag are among those that complain about telling where. I've read quite a few posts from a couple guys in this thread about how many fish they catch all the time, and they are among the ones sniveling about the reports that include where. How about this idea for you guys ... quit bragging about your fish catches while you remain zipperlipped about good spots. After all it only fishing and it's pretty easy to catch fish. Just take Jim Conway's sound advice from long ago, tell them how (if you really want to contribute to this board) but not where, and add to that "and stop bragging so much". Or whatever. :wink:

[Sand Shrimp]

I do believe it is Jennies site you guys are on .She said it's ok to brag so you guys who are jealous should just drop this it's been talked about many times before.You guys need to focus on technique and reading water and you will become better fisherman it's not because your fishing the wrong river or hole.All the rivers have fish in them right now so go fishing instead of complaining.

[ 11-24-2002, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Sand Shrimp ]

[DanS]

Excellent point Sand Shrimp. If you read the BB content anf learn the techniques that people provide FREELY here, it won't matter to you where Joe Blow caught 6 fish, because you'll be able to catch them on a river near you.

Refine your techniques, learn your local rivers intimately, and let other people worry about zipperlips.

People get too caught up in "where" to bother learning "how". Once you know "how", the "where" part becomes less important.

[Catch 22]

This morning I went to Dog Creek at Mciver Park on the Clackamas River. I drifted Seducer brand pink worms (Tillamook Special to be exact) threaded upside down over a size 1 red Gami. I caught two in about an hour and a half and went home. If anyone wants particulars I would be glad to show them exactly where I was standing and where I casted.

While this is a true story, I'm obviously being very sarcastic. My point is that you don't have to be specific about your fishing. If you want to brag, I don't care. I'm not easily impressed by people bragging on the web. If you want to tell people about a great trip you had, thats cool. I love to hear about people' success with different techniques.

Mr. Shrimp, I don't feel jealous. Sorry.

[Spot]

Sorry I'm dredging this out of the basement to put my $.02 in on the matter but while I was fishing one of my zipper-lips on Sunday, I couldn't get the question out of my head. Why are people posting if they're going to be so secretive? It ate at me all day until I realized that I was asking myself the wrong question.
You see, I read the zipper-lip posts with as much and sometimes more zeal than all those pinpoint reports. Sure, I appreciate the info. on where the bite was hot. I even post the occasional eye witness report but there's something about the zipperlip posts that pull me in.
I don't make plans based on them. I don't break plans based on them. I read them because whatever hole on whatever river happens to be the zipperlip that day is an enigma. It's the kindling for my dreams the night before a fishing trip. It's the affirmation that there is a spot on a river where I won't have to stand in line to cast. Where I'll fight a Salmon or a steelhead or even just a cutthroat without the "helpfull" suggestions of 30 snaggers. A place where after a good day of fishing I pause to contemplate the wording of my next post where I'll pass the enigma along to some other poor slob surfing the web from work or sneaking a peak at ifish before heading off to bed.

[AtWorkALot]

I know I'm late, but I'll chime in too. I don't mind the zipperlip posts. I don't mind the gloating about how many fish people caught. Good for them.
To me, one of the best things about fishing is the search. In the fall, I might hit a half-dozen places looking for fish, it's fun. I don't measure success by how many fish I caught. Success, in my book, is getting away from work, getting out of the house. Work and Mrs. AtWorkALot wind me up enough.
Why get upset about a Zipperlip post? I don't do it, but what does it hurt? Nothing.
If you want to be a proficient salmon or steelhead or salmon/steelhead fisherman, go out and pound the water. Seek answers from the people that are dialed in. I will gladly help a "rookie" if I run in to one on the river. I let a guy use a bobber rod Sunday in the boat next to me on the Wilson because he only had a plug rod. I've given eggs to more people than I care to remember when everyone but them was hooking up. My bottom line is, if you can get there, and you're not and a**hole, I'll help you out. But, I will never post a detailed report on a BB. It's not good business.
Fishing is a RECREATIONAL activity. Get out there, make some new friends, pay attention, be respectful of the people and fish you encounter, and you'll eventually find what you're looking for. Cheers... :cheers: