Near tragedy at Clackamette Please Help!

[Hogmaster]

Tonight I was fortunate enough to hook another silver after work. Launched SS Hog Heaven at about 6 and fished for an hour with the wonder dog. But the buck was really pretty dark and even though it was finless I chose not to retain it. No contribution to the camera fund tonight. Did see one other caught from a boat as well.

But the reason for this thread is not so much for yet another fish report as much as to relay a concern shared by someone at the dock.

As I pulled up to the dock and tied up to it, a fellow walked up and asked me if I had a moment to talk. I said sure, and he asked me what I thought of the dock. I told him I hated it and have feared since they put it in that it is just a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or even killed there.

For those of you who have not launched here, or at least since they put the pilings and dock in, you may not be aware of something that anyone who has knows about. The issue is that the Clackamas River, depending on river height and tide, runs with slight to moderate current at the launch point. Incidentally, since the floods of 96 and 97, there is much more current in the river here than there used to be. I believe it is because of major shifts in the river channel upstream from the gravel shoaling that force more current than in earlier years.

Engineers were contracted to sink large pilings and from May until some time in October, a long “L” shaped dock is present. This would have been fine, except whoever designed the ramp and dock improvements put the dock in downstream of the ramp. This means that boats getting on or off trailers are forced into at times a fairly swift moving river that inherently has a major hazard immediately downstream. I have seen many boaters miss their trailers when trying to put them on, including some very experienced guides putting sleds on rails. You can imagine how challenging this can be for novices with roller trailers. But with the dock just downstream, the consequences of a miss can be severe. A boat will invariably get slammed against the dock or another boat as the water pushes them into it with force.

I have seen and even had another issue when backing off, too. If one does not get the boat quickly backed off way into the river it will get slammed right into the dock. In fact, early this spring before the dock was even in place I saw boats back off trailers and get sucked into the unprotected pilings. I saw one bust the cover right off the kicker as the pilot backed off his trailer but failed to realize he was slide slipping into the piling as he was backing. For this reason the inside lane of the new improved ramp is almost unusable except for very small boats that might be hand lined on and off their trailers.

The gentleman proceeded to share with me a story about how the night before he had almost seriously injured a young girl and in not doing so did some major damage to his boat. Seems the little girl, whom he estimated to be about 6, had chosen to sit on the dock with her legs hanging over the edge. He had started from the end of the dock on the Up/downstream portion of the L where he had tied up while getting his rig. The girl’s parents were standing on the doc, but they too were on the outer portion of the dock watching him and ducks and everything but the child.

Well, he motored around the end of the dock but had made the mistake of pulling down the inside lane of the ramp. As he tried to get his boat lined up for the trailer he was swept with a 20’ boat right toward this little girl’s dangling legs. He said he was scared to death as he banged the motor into reverse and full powered back to avoid squishing her.

The good news is that allowed him to miss her. The bad news is that as the current continued to sweep him down his boat got impaled right at the corner of the dock amidships. He told me he spent most of last evening with a jack and a 4X4 trying to take out a good-sized dent from his boat.

My fear has been for quite some time that someone in a small boat or kayak or canoe will one of these days get swept into and then under the dock and there will be a tragic story in the news.

I talked to some engineers last year who were looking at some plans one day as I happened by. This was after the dock had been put in. I commented I was glad to see there were going to be corrections made to address the problem. Instead they said they were not there for that, but instead because they were rebuilding the ramp. The current was pretty swift that day and I could see they were wondering how such a hazard could exist but they said there were no plans to change the situation.

I admit until right now I have not pursued how to get this problem addressed. I am not a hydrologist or engineer, but it seems to me that possible solutions include:

A) Build a riprap wing dam at or just below the 99 bridge, which would eddy the current and recreate the effect that was present before the flood.
B) Move the dock upstream of the ramp instead of downstream. This would be expensive of course because the pilings need to be removed and reset.
C) Move the ramp downstream of the dock. Seems pretty expensive.
D) Change the entrance/egress angle of the ramp to be more in line with the flow of the river. This would still leave a hazard downstream, however.

Any of these solutions have a cost. The question is how much more will it cost the governmental agency that gets sued from the injuries or loss of life resulting from leaving a situation in place that could be called negligent?

I do not know who to express concerns to, but I am hoping the ifish family will add their own experiences to this thread. The intention will be to show that many people are having significant problems and it needs to be fixed.

If anyone does know if this is an Oregon City, Clackamas County, State or whomever responsibility that would be great too. But I will do research if no one else knows…

Thanks for your help!

[ 10-02-2002, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: Hogmaster ]

[Gus Orviston]

GREAT post.

We used that ramp this spring and had a heck of time, while at a 45 degree angle in the current trying to get the boat started on the trailer a guy in sled got in on the lane on the ramp. We had to abort as I could not hold the boat in the current because we didn't get up far enough on the trailer before getting nearly fully turned. That put our out drive almost on top of his trailer because he backed in so far. Anyway, we nailed it the second run but vowed not to use that ramp again.

Been boating my entire life, same with my brother, and we have never had such a challenge getting loaded.

[ragjr]

hogmaster,
good Question? you and everyone has to be nowdays have to to be conserned. I griw up in damascus and rafted doun to clackamette water has always been sweft I my memery serves me correct it is a county park. from what you trold me it should be addressed lick the high rocks just up river from there.

[THE KIWANDA KID]

An excelent question and heads up HM. I wish I knew who could help. You saw me in Ol' Blue the other day and as you know it's just a puddle jumper but I've handeled everthing that floats and I am as cautious as possible but there is always a chance that tragedy will strike. I am more concerned for the new guys who have puddle jumpers like my bobber boat and aren't aware of how potentialy dangerous that ramp is. And what about the occasional wader/swimmer that may have to deal with the current against the docks? There are so many bad things that can happen there I hope someone comes to realize this as we already have.Lets be careful out there people and look out for one another as well as non ifishers. :cool:

[Hogmaster]

Yep, Kiwanda, it is the inexperienced that are most at risk there. But as I wrote, I have seen very experienced boaters getting in trouble there too. Damage to equipment is bad. Injuries or loss of life is inexcusable.

There are hazards everywhere, but I have never seen an example like this before where an agency actually created the hazard.

It needs to be adressed.

PS Kiwanda - looked for you tonight, but didn't see you. Got an hour in the morning? :smile:

[THE KIWANDA KID]

Hey you fish whacker, check your mail box. Man that boat sure is payin for itself :grin:

[Fishplay]

A very dangerous situation indeed. A letter writing campaign is in order. Hogmaster; maybe you could put this person in touch with Bill Monroe. If the little girl had lost her legs it would be NEWS. I say it's NEWS now before such a tragedy occurs! What do you think BIll?

[Steelie Steve]

Hogmaster,
After doing a little research, it appears that Clackamette Park is run by the Oregon City Parks and Recreation Department. Their Website address is:

Oregon City Parks & Recreation (http://www.orcity.org/parks-and-recreation/parks/index.html)

I will continue to look into this a bit and provide any info that I can.

I don't have any personal experiences with this ramp, but as you were describing it, I had already figured out what the problem would be. Thanks for bringing this issue to light and lets see what we can do to try and fix the problem.

Steve

[Skipper]

Hogmaster,

I used to launch boats from Clackamette often. I was excited to see improvements being made, but since the new ramp and docks were installed I have only used it once or twice.

The last time I used it was May 2002 and the main current was right at the end of my 19' trailer. My Father-in-law had backed the trailer in too far, but I tried to drive the boat on anyway. I crabbed the boat over at a 45 deg angle till the bow started past the end of the trailer, and then quickly straightened it out. Tried to power on, but found the boat at a 20 deg angle on the trailer. Next tried to pull the boat sideways into the current by hand, holding onto the trailer guides to no avail.

I then told my father-in-law that the trailer was too deep and to only submerge the trailer bunks 40% - 50%. I reversed off OK and missed the dock & pilings. When the trailer was good, I was able to use more speed and less crabbing to get it straight on the trailer.

It was the most difficult time of loading my boat yet. Needless to say, I'm not thrilled with the improvements.

It seems like they dredged and changed the channel. The current use to be further out in the river.

Maybe someone can turn on the engineers to this thread.

[Red]

Hogmaster,

I launched at Clackamette in the summer of '01, obviously the flows were way down and I had no difficulty. However, I was at the park earlier this week and did notice the swift current running at the dock at low tide. Thanks for the heads up. I will be happy to write a letter of concern. I'll wait until a specific contact person is identitied, rather that write to OC in general.

[abercrombie]

oldjohn@teleport.com that's the Mayor's e-mail address... it's time to drop a few hundred e-mail's on him...

[Hogmaster]

Thanks Steelie Steve, I thought it was OC. When I get a chance I will make a few calls today.

We are seeing additional posts from experienced boatsman and you can get a feel for the seriousness of the problem. Please keep them coming. I know there are many ifishers that have had problems at this ramp.

On another note, here is the morning fishing report:

More action this morning. Except not successful.

Seems I did some dumb things last night. After talking to the guy at the ramp it got dark before I got the sled home. I hate that, because the car port that holds the Willie is not much wider than it is.

Well, when I started backing in the dark I inadvertantly backed into the large Laurel hedge that parallels the driveway. Unbenounced to me, it broke the tip off one of the two rods I had sticking out the back of the sled.

Since I was going again first thing this morning I did not remove the rods and never noticed the damage.

Last night I was contacted by Redbull, who wondered if I had an extra seat. I said sure and he met me at the ramp at first light.

He asked me how he should rig, but I suggested that he just use one of my two rods since they were both rigged and both have been working :smile: It was then that he pointed out that it might be a little difficult to fish with one of them since there was no tip on the rod! Dang!

Fortunately he had thrown his in the boat, and even more fortunately the plug was still in the boat, so he attached it and off we went.

Nothing happened for about 45 minutes but then he said, "You have a fish!" Sure enough my rod was doubled hard and so I went to pick it up. But there was nothing there. Literally nothing there. Reeled up to find that the plug had been left in Mr. or Mrs. Coho's lip. Since I keep the drags relatively loose for this fishery and noted there was a clean break, my suspicion is that the line from the broken rod must have nicked the leader on the rod I was using. That was confirmed further when Redbull noticed that the reel on the broken rod was totally spooled. As I found when I got home, line had attached to the hedge and as I left this morning 150 yards of line was left flowing down my street.

Excitement over hooking another fish made me miss a few things this morning fundamental to fishing success. ALWAYS CHECK LEADERS AND HOOKS BEFORE FISHING! DUH!

That and the fact it started raining heavily just as we started fishing may have caused the mental lapse.

Oh well, it was still fun and my action average is still holding up to about a takedown per hour. The rod can have a new tip put on it, although it will be two eyes shorter, and will still be an OK boat rod, although it is decidedly now retired from drift fishing.

Got to meet another ifisher and he even left me with a similar wiggle wart. You are welcome in the boat anytime, Redbull!

Hog

PS - There are no fish in the Willamette :smile:

[ 10-03-2002, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Hogmaster ]

[Steelie Steve]

The Director of Parks and Recreation at Oregon City is Dee Craig. Contact info is:

Dee Craig
Community Services Director
320 Warner Milne Rd.
503-496-1546
dcraig@ci.oregon-city.or.us

The Advisory Board Site Address is Advisory Board (http://www.orcity.org/parks-and-recreation/advisory-committee.htm)

I will continue to search a bit more for project contacts.

Steve

[GoFish]

If anybody can muster the details on who the decision making person is, I'm sure we can deluge them with comments and get something done. It's hard to believe that the responsible agency/person would admit that the dock was a bad idea to begin with and just remove it, but that's what needs to be done. This is a prime example of the uninformed being in a position to make bad judgements and spend taxpayer dollars creating a boating hazard. We need to get this fixed before something fatal happens.

Does anybody here have time to dig around and get a name and phone number or email address to post here so we can start the barrage of complaints?

Steve, you reading my post before I make It?

Thanks for the work.

I just left a phone message with Dee Craig informing her that a group of citizens have formed a panel to see that the dangerous situation at the ramp is corrected. Will post her reply when I get it.

[ 10-03-2002, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: gofish ]

[Miss B Haven]

I suggest you call OSMB (Oregon State Marine Board). They can tell you exactly who is responsible and liable for a ramp. I had a very bad experiance at Browns Landing. I called the city of Scappoose (after the folks at Browns told me it was their launch). The city claimed it was not their ramp or problem. OSMB was able to look it up and even give me a name to contact. The person investigated and then got back to me with an apology. Seems they were not even aware that it belonged to them (thus the lousy/no maintainence).
A week later a back hoe came out and dug the rock out (where the jets pushed the gravel) and filled in the 5 foot deep hole at the end of the ramp. Warning signs were also put up about a possible drop off. :shocked:
Didn't help me (I propped the boat and bent an axle), graemlins/stupid.gif but it might have helped the next guy. :grin:

[Nanook]

Leave the nice ramps and remove EVERYTHING else there like it used to be would work fine.

Rick graemlins/stupid.gif

[Hogmaster]

I agree, Rick. I think all those "improvements" with the curbs etc merely accomplished losing available parking and they get in the way. But we know they won't remove all that.

However, fixing a dangerous condition is one that they need to adress. Another suggestion that many of us ifishers would support is total removal of the dock and pilings (we don' need no stinkin' dock!), but in fairness to the pleasure boaters it probably was fair to put it in. Just not the way that it was done!

Thanks, Mel for your suggestion as well. OSMB should have some authority in the matter.

[GoFish]

Just got off the phone with Dee Craig at O.C.

Nice lady. She says that she has heard plenty about this issue and, in fact, has read some of these posts. THE POWER OF IFISH!!!

She says to contact Ron Rhodehamel at the State Marine Board (503) 373-1405, since he is the engineer who designed this project.

We should remind him that the laws of hydrodynamics are in effect at this ramp.

It sounds like the marine board has been hearing about this a lot too and may be trying to duck responsibility.

Dee says that we need to organize a few volunteers with enough time to attend a meeting of the Oregon City commision and describe some of the issues and request a sensible fix to the problem. Commission meeting start at 7:00 PM, 1st & 3rd wednesdays of the month. Next meeting is Oct 16, 2002. Dee can't be at that meeting, but she will be at the next meeting on Nov. 6, 2002.

Since I haven't even been able to fish since springer season due to the work load, I won't be able to mosey on down to Oregon City very soon. I hope someone else will pick up the gauntlet and put in a showing.

From what Dee is saying, there has already been a lot of discussion about this man-made hazard and it shouldn't take to much public involvement to kick a change into gear.

[Red]

I know it won't be up to us, but my vote would be to relocate the dock upstream of the ramp. It would provide convenience and also probably deflect or decrease the river current at the ramp.

[Hogmaster]

gofish -

Youda' man! Thanks!

Since I started this and live right accross the river, I would be happy to go to the next meeting of the commission. Did Dee feel her presence was necessary?

If we keep getting posts here I will take them as well.

Have you tried to contact Mr. Rhodehamel yet?

[GoFish]

Hogmaster,

It did not seem that Dee thought that she would need to be there. She did say however, that issues like this were addressed at the start of the meeting.

I have not talked to Mr. Rhodehamel. Too much paying work to do first.

[Hogmaster]

I just spoke to Mr. Ray Lanham at the OSMB. raymond.lanham@state.or.us He said the state provided money to put improvements in at the ramp, but as I understood him they did not do the actual engineering. That was apparently hired by the city of Oregon City.

I asked who to send concerns to and he indicated both entities need to be informed. He said someone else had in the last week or two cited concerns about ramp problems as well, so it was (my words here) coming up on the radar...

I provided him with this link and let him know folks were prepared to personally let the folks at OC know.

If you have had an experience, please add them or let other ifishers who have had issues know to add them as well. It does not seem the governing entities are aware that the ramp essentially fell into disuse last spring when many folks would only launch at Sportcraft or Meldrum because launching at Clackamette at best was challenging, often damaging and potentially disasterous.

I know last April and May I would often see many empty parking spots at Clackamette when the other two launches were overflowing. There is a reason for that.

Thanks, Bill, for taking this on. How was the hunt?

[ 10-03-2002, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Hogmaster ]

[GoFish]

Looks like we have a couple of agencies involved and nobody wants to take the heat for building this thing. We just have to keep making sparks until it gets fixed. My vote is for no pilings, no dock and less "improvements" in this already heavily used area. It has worked well year after year without all this "fixin up" going on. I've seen 20+ boats launch, beach and come & go, all before daylight, for many springer seasons without pilings or dock or parking lot maze. Better plan is another ramp on the West Linn side. :smile: Now we're talkin'!!

[CATCH AND EAT]

I use to use this launch a lot for springers and shad season. Tried it once when just the pilings were in. Hoh boy, pops nearly slammed a pole since we were on the lower side of the ramp. To much current during January-may. Nothing but dangerous.

I felt very uncomfortable when I tried to run the boat up the second time we used the ramp. Won't be using it again. But geeeee, a very nice little skateboard bowl. :rolleyes:

Anyone got an underwater torch and scuba gear. We can make this eyesore go away. graemlins/idea.gif :mad:

[Drachir]

Hogmaster,
Great Post!! It is one that I got started the day the first pilings were driven. I knew this was going to be a problem right then and there. We have not used the ramp @ Clackamette Park since the "Improvements" were done to the parking lot. graemlins/berry.gif This whole project is a Big Joke!! :mad: It is culminated by the pilings and docks, downstream of the ramp. :whazzup:
My wife and I go out to the Park frequently, to walk, and have observed many problems on this ramp. One day, last May, we saw a Drift Boat w/ a guy by himself, trying to motor his boat towards the trailer. The docks were not in place at this time. He was upstream of the ramp, tried to turn around near the end piling, the swift current caught his boat and slammed him broadside into the piling. It nearly threw him out of the boat. The whole side of the Aluminum Drift Boat was crushed inward, he got off the piling and somehow made it to shore next to his trailer. He got the boat on the trailer OK, but he was visibly angry and very upset. This could easily have been a tragedy!! :shocked:
Another day we saw a big jet boat lining up to his trailer, and get swept into the dock, nearly breaking his trolling motor off of the transom. I am sure the trolling motor was nearly destroyed. It was bent at an 35 degree angle as it stayed on the boat somehow. We have seen many boats lose control in the sideways current, and slam into other boats at the dock, & many trailer guide-ons get bent or broken trying to get boats on trailers.
This idiotic set-up has to be corrected, before someone gets killed here!!! graemlins/1zhelp.gif

[O'City Fisherman]

I will agree to replacement of the dock to go upstream from the current location or just plainly take it out.

GoFish: West Linn does have a boat ramp that is very nice. It has two lanes and a nice docks also. The other nice thing is that it is just down river about a mile. This gives us 4 docks within a mile apart from each other.

[Nanook]

Just gotta know Skipper. Is this really you? :tongue:

http://www.ifish.net/ubb/Avatars/93.jpg

I took Mark's 200 pump tiller off the trailer here this year while he parked. It was real interesting with no time for anything but the right moves. Even with angling the trailer downriver, Mark had fun (not), getting it back on the trailer, even under power.

Rick

[ 10-03-2002, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: ****** ]

[Rippenlips]

Ever have your cold engine stall right after you get it off trailer? :shocked: The first time I saw the mess I couldn't believe they would put it down stream. I have almost hit the pilings a few times and have seen many other people almost hit them also. It is an accident waiting to happen.
Jon T

[fish_on]

west linn does not have a ramp, no need to go there, and if there is one, there are rocks the size of vw's at the bottom, a drop off at least 10' deep and mean people all around :wink: :tongue: . That said, the Clackamette Park ramp is dangerous with the poles and dock. It is extra dangerous when alone and with a cold engine.

[Plum Crazy]

Tip of the Rod,
Out of the Park story HM.
Many a boat have the scars to back up your story and tell one of their own. At minimum while we wait for change signs should warn of the danger to fishermen and people on the dock. Just a thought.
Keep it safe
Fire in the Hole :cheers:

[Hogmaster]

Thanks all, that are adding their experiences to this.

Fire In The Hole, I had a similar thought tonight as I took out there.

Perhaps some laminated signs are in order warning of the danger.

Ironically, by using the upstream lane and with a lot of practice, I have not been having trouble getting the Willie on and off the trailer lately. But that is in large measure because my motors are staying running and the flow compared to the spring flow is minor.

Yet even with the milder flow the fellow I spoke with last night almost hurt a child and did major damage to his boat.

So many people refuse to launch there it is sorta like having my own private launch. That is fine, except that like ****** and some others of you have confirmed, in the higher flow conditions danger and damage just flat happen. People would try angling trailers but that meant one wheel would be lower in the water and invaribly the boats would "crab" or miss the center of the trailers.

On another note, here is the Th evening fish report:

The evening report is that for the second time in about 6 outings Redbull nor I got any takedowns. There were only two other boats out tonight. Guesss the weather scared everyone else off...

Going to try it again tomorrow morning.

[Fishplay]

Thank you Bill Monroe!!
I have been contacted by Steven Amick a jounrnalist with the Oregonian and he has been asked to write a stroy regarding this issue. Those of you with personal experiences since the docks construction can contact him at stevenamick@news.oregonian.com
Thank you to all who get involved in correcting this dangerous situation.
Greg

[Bill Monroe]

Sorry for being so late with this, but I've been in deer camp.
Actually, I saw this coming when the damned thing was built and should've addressed a lot sooner. I've sent this thread address to our south bureau and if they don't want to do a story, I will...it's clearly another engineering snafu for the marine board (anyone remember Meldrum?). I've been expecting to hear about someone being swept under the dock and drown...sorry for not getting to it sooner...thanks, Bill

[Skipper]

I do not agree with removal of the docks.

Removing the docks will not change the current at the ramp.

A better solution is to build a bulkhead up river from the ramp extending out into the river to deflect the current away from the ramp.

With the current off the ramp the hazard goes away. The docks are great for tying the boat up while someone goes for the rig & trailer.

Use of the docks are better than having to beach the boat on mud and rocks. It is also a lot easier to get in & out of a boat from the dock.

In the past, I have notice some submerged rocks around the beach that could wipeout a prop, and or dent an aluminum hull.

[STGRule]

The problem with a bulkhead is the fact that it is in a dynamic river. They have already had to re-design the ramp because of hydraulics. A bulkhead will change the sedimentation around it and is likely to cause more trouble than fix. Moving the docks to the up-stream side of the ramp would be the safest and cheapest in the long run if you factor in maintenance costs.

[Bait O' Eggs]

I use to use the Meldrum bar exclusively, then the big flood came and some non boat owning engineer redesigned the ramp so it would take your typical weekend boater 4 times as long to launch/retrieve. I moved to Clackamette after one last time at Meldrum. Things went well until another non boat owning engineer decided to improve :rolleyes: the ramp at Clackamette. With the design they came up with you would think they would have used the same logic and tried to install it in December. If Sportcraft had more parking I would move over there. Instead I get to the boat ramp at Clackamette, make peace with my maker, and try and run the obstacle course in the dark. I have had some extremely close calls, but have managed to get home with my life each and every time. I would take the gravel bar any day over the death trap that they put in there.

I believe navitable rivers need lights and markers on obstacles in the river. Especially man made obstacles. If the clackamas is (or is going to be) rated as navitable you would think these steel death traps would have to have lights placed on them for us before daylight launchers.

The dock will take out a canoe or kayaker or very small boat if it doesnt get changed soon. Lets hope the occupants survive. graemlins/1zhelp.gif

[ 10-04-2002, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Bait O' Eggs ]

[Hogmaster]

gofish -

You trying to get a rise outta me!? That is my back yard you are camping in! :smile:

But as long as I can charge for it, sure, let's put a ramp in right off my back yard! We can pave off Lonesome bottom and get lots of parking.

At least if boaters put in a launch they will put it where they won't be doing it in a way that folks can get killed!

BOE -

Nicely put. Meldrum was a debacle for those that want to launch, but the Clackamette is disaster waiting to happen.

I would sure like to take the design engineer on a launch foray there. Launched this morning right at first light and even though I have been doing it alot lately and should know better, the water looked so calm I figured it wasn't really moving. But sure enogh, a moment's hesitation and the Willie almost bit the end of the dock because I didn't throttle out hard enough. Geez, I'm even thinking about it and it almost got me.

And this is nothing compared to how it was last spring!

On another note, here is the morning fish report:

Met Redbull at first light and the three of us (Max, the wonder dog was with us) trolled for almost two hours. About an hour an 1/2 in, his rod flipped forward in the holder like the plug caught a leaf or debris. When he picked it up, my rod went down.

Dang, I thought, somehow we tangled. I picked my rod up to start reeling when I noticed the unmistakable thumping of A fish knawing on the wiggle wart. Set the hook, but too late. Shoot!

In replay what seems to have happened was that a silver hit Redbull's plug, perhaps on an upstream drive by, missed, and came back for mine. Strange but true...

No other action and only one boat and a couple of bankies at the blacktop point.

There are no fish in the Willamette :smile:

[ 10-04-2002, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Hogmaster ]

[GoFish]

O'City Fisherman,

I am familar with the existing West Linn ramp. It is as nice as some of the homes you drive past getting to it. I'm talking about another one. Brand new. Maybe near 205. Or, better yet in those people's back yard behind Goat Island. They all seem real nice and will let you camp below the high water line. :wink: :grin: :grin: