Bankees! We gotta stick together! (POLL - VOTE HERE!))

[AnglersRental]

Back to the idea of a seperate Bankie Forum. LETS TAKE A POLL!!!

I would like to see where we stand on that.

As a read the previous thread on this subject I think we were at 17 in favor and looking for 20 according to Jennie. Here is the orignal thread for those who need a refresher:

http://www.ifish.net/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=014918

Also, Before you vote please read the following thread, It might explain why I am in favor of this idea:

http://www.ifish.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=21;t=000518

Thanks, Uglygreen

[ 09-07-2002, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

[MasterCaster]

Im in 100% GO BANKIE FORUM!!!! More reports and maybe some of the bankies that dont post will step out and say HEY!!

Jon :smile: :grin: :smile:

[AnglersRental]

Thanks Mastercaster... everyone else, please vote!!

UG.

[AnglersRental]

Thanks, Ace King Suites, hope it goes that way!

UG.

[fishdog]

1 vote bankee. I also fish by boat but i like fishing from the bank to. Some time's I go to a beach you can't get to by road and fish from bank. :smile: :smile: :smile:

[ampersat]

i haven't seen a bank report for months. know why? there's no bank action going on right now, unless you're willing to get up at 2am and fish the first two hours of daylight. in the next few months, this place will be crawling with bank reports because there'll actually be fish in for the bankee. right now it's a boat show. you want your own forum, good luck. for the last two months it would have been :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :hoboy:

the whole point of ifish is to bring fisherfolk together, not segregate us. let's keep it that way.

[AnglersRental]

Which illustrates the point very well. Thank you. Perhaps you havent been to Warrendale this summer? or seen the hundreds of poles on the bank around longview / kalama / prescott beach? There is pleanty of bank fishin goin on, if the reports were not drowned in bouy ten / frenchmans / etc... we might know what is going on, and where.

Just a thought.

UG

[ 09-08-2002, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

[brshooter]

I fish from both boat and bank. I would still like to see all of the boat or bank discussion posted to one forum. I agree that a large majority of the current posts relate to boat fishing right now, but that will change. I know there are lots of bank fishermen out there and some of them are doing lots of fishing right now. I don't see them doing much posting right now. There are a few now and then, but I don't think that not having their own forum is the reason.
When things lite up on the N.F. Nehalem or other smaller rivers that I fish from the bank, my reports will go right here in the "Ifish Community" forum.

[ 09-08-2002, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: brshooter ]

[PapaHog]

I like the idea of a bankie only forum. I read the other forum and find mostly activity of the boater and the boat action. I fish from the bank 98% of the time and would report on the bank action when I go out. I would never go fishing without a ifish plan or my new ifish hat.(that I will buy at the picnic.)
I hope to see more ifish hats on the bank. I believe there are more bank fishermen and women than boat fishermen and women.
Will see you on the river.

[Jennie@ifish]

Frankly, I have been considering even putting all of the Guides Forecasts into one forum. I'm not going to do that, but I am working on bringing us together, rather than separating us.
I keep trying to think of ways to eliminate newer forums, not making more of them.
This is not to say I won't give you your forum.... It's just more work for me, and I don't feel that you realize that aspect of it.
Not only that, but bank anglers start to take over the main forum come steelhead time.
What boat anglers don't also bank fish?
I'm still thinkin on it... :smile:
Jen

[TheRogue]

Leave it the way it is....if you want, when you post a topic, end it with "Bankee" or something similar, it will stick out then.

There's enough Bankee vs Boatee going on now, we really don't need any more.

TR

[KingFisher85]

Well Jennie, this is your site you do whatever you want to it graemlins/program.gif , bankie or no bankie page I will still come to it and place my reports and topics :smile:

[Chris Nordling]

Maybe the bankees have found the long lost "secret spot" ?? :shocked:

I think seperating the forums is a bad idea. Too much reading for me when I do both, bank and boat fish.

The bankee reports will come, especially when the coho make their trek up Eagle Creek, or when the winters take over.

There's even some now for fall fish. graemlins/hearton.gif

Chris :cool:

[AnglersRental]

Jennie said:

"This is not to say I won't give you your forum.... It's just more work for me, and I don't feel that you realize that aspect of it."

You are absolutly right, I have no idea how much work it would be. I have no information on this subject, except from your previous posts in the other thread on this question - where it didnt sound to me like it was a huge big deal for you. I apologize if I misunderstood.

I am a big boy, I'm not going to stomp off and hide in the corner. I think Ifish is great as it is now. There will always be room for improvement as well. If it is a huge hassel I would be fine as is. If it is not a huge hassel I would like to see it given a try, I think there would be a lot of benefit.

Also, I thing the primary day in and day out users would be more the plunkers. Bonneville sturgon guys, Melundrum bar people, Warrendale plunkers, the folks at Prescott beach, the Oak tree crowd, the Tanner creek and Bradford Island crew, those floks that are at the Blacktop every day, etc... These are already a close knit tight lipped crowd. Maybe rather than bankees we should say plunkers?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What would be really neat would be a required user input field at the beginning of every new topic post that was coded for the specific forums avalible. (similar to the message icons) The new topic would then be posted and updated in both the appropriate forum and in the genral forum. For example:

1) Ifish Community
2) Boaters Bonanza
3) Plunkin Pursuits
4) Bass and Panfish
5) Hunting, etc...
6) Salty Dogs
7) Flies and Lies

When a new topic post is made you would have to choose forum 1-7. The new post would be made the specific forum for the code chosen, and all new topics would also be in forum #1. Then you would have the best of both worlds.

Propably either impossible or even more work though?

Also jennie check your private messages please.... thanks

UG.

[ 09-09-2002, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

[AnglersRental]

Chris... I already know your a closed lipped SOB... haha... You just dont want to share the "secret spot". This I know.

Have you been up to the Eagle Creek lately? I imagine that there are a few at the park under the bridge or at least in the Clack at the mouth?

See you up in that area soon... Brad (in the Uglygreen fishin machine)

By the way.. I got a new (used) jet sled, details to follow....

[Chris Nordling]

UG-

Me tighlipped.....NAH, I just chose to leave out some minor details is all....it's called selective typing.

C'mon Brad, you've seen it go from no one to everyone real quick, it can be annoying ( remember Tanner Ck. a few years back)

I personally don't use any forums but this one, as I think it covers what I want to see. I think the bankees put out as many reports as the boaters, I just think there are more boaters is all.

BTW, any recent reports from YOU ?????

I know you fish more than 3 guys combined, so where ya been hiding? :wink:

Josh got a sweetie with me on Saturday. 43 # from Frenchies. He pegged a few steelies too.

What are you gonna do with the other 2 boats? You must have friends in the cement business :shocked: :grin:

C-ya at the creek, I may head out and troll here in a few. Click my email and shoot me your cell #, and I'll call you when I get back with a report. That's if I even make it today.

Chris

[ampersat]

gotta go with chris on this one. when the bank action is hot, there are plenty of bankie reports. right now, the boat action is where it's at and so they're posting a ton.

i guess it's easier for me to keep track of the posts i want to see since i'm on the board almost constantly at work and keep up pretty regularly (several times a day) when i'm not at work. for those that only drop in once in a while, it can be tough to go through three pages of posts to find the info you're looking for. mostly, folks are pretty good about titling their threads so you can tell bank and boat reports apart.

by the way, i was at the mouth of the clack late last week and didn't see a single fish in the two hours i was there, both off the point and up underneath the 99 bridge. maybe that has changed since then. i hope so. i need some fish.

[MasterCaster]

looks like there are more people that want it than are posting about it on here.......

39 <49%> say yes
24 <30%> say no
16 <20%> say dont care

Jon :smile: :grin: :smile:

[Pete]

39 of 2750 support ... now what's the standard deviation and ANOVA for that? :grin:

[MasterCaster]

out of the amount of people that actually post reports on here anyway I would say its not too bad. Another thing I remember is that Jennie said 20 people i think was the number we needed. I now see about double that. Just like was already stated though if its too much trouble then so be it. I just dont see how giving it a shot could be a bad thing.

just me .02

Jon :smile: :grin: :smile:

[crabbait]

I think the community forum gives plenty of opportunity for both boaters and bankees. I am against anything that is devisive and anytime you separate into groups division is what you get.

I like the board just the way it is. I don't want to have to look at three separate boards to get the information I get from one board now.

[Slayer]

What about a recent post about keeping your mouth shut about secrets. I think there are alot of out there that would prefer to keep our secrets, secret. When i see the shores littered, attitudes flairing for stupid reasons, and 50 -75% of the bankees snagging, it sure does'nt encourage me to share my knowledge. I am very frustrated with our salmon community and don't know if i would save some of them from going to jail or drowning. Then again there are those of us who love the sport and want to respect it and share it. I guess my question is the glass half empty or full? I'll know by the end of this winter on what direction I will decide to take.

[Fshklr]

I personally voted for #3. It dose'nt matter either way. Although, the work load and up keep on another forum, WOULD bite into jens and others already taxed fishing opportuities. As for bankee posting, I will share tips, tackle, and technics. Everyday bankee's, are challenged again, and again to find fishing water all year long. So.. will I or others share a few honey holes or hot spots. Probably not. Although I have contacted afew members privately ( after recieving help on the boards ) and have been emailed by others for advice on a honey hole or 2 and I have gladly helped. If you look at the overall #'s less than 100 reply's versus over 3000 members at IFISH, the math is easy. Keep posting here in the community and enjoy the vast amount of knowledgs shared here everyday. :wink:

[AnglersRental]

Uhhhh... Pete?

Sorry buddy, but I thought that this was a POLL ?

As of right now: (assume 3000 members)

------------------------------------------------------------

48% in favor = 1440 members would be favor.

27% opposed = 810 members would be opposed.

25% dont care = 750 members don't matter.

------------------------------------------------------------

I think that is what a POLL means??

UG

[ampersat]

hey UG,

i think you got your numbers a little wrong. assuming 3000 members:
for = 42 = 1.4%
against = 26 = .86%
don't care = 2932 = 97.73%

obviously, if more folks cared, more folks would have actually voted in the poll. apparently, they don't care about this issue so they belong in the don't care column, not distributed evenly among all the categories.

[AnglersRental]

Hey ampersat!

You don't really want me to respond to that, do you?

UG

[PapaHog]

Hello, I posted earlier to this subject but after having read the other posts I have changed my mind.

I like the idea that we are all in the same section because fishing is fishing. I to believe that in a couple weeks the bank action will pick up and I hope so will the bank reports.

And Last and maybe most important, I having never met Jennie but I have become one of her greatest fans and wish not to cause her more work or harm her labor of love the ifish web site.

I hope to meet Jennie and others at the picnic.

[ampersat]

hey UG,
i'd love to hear your statistical analysis of the data at hand. this poll isn't a "representative sampling" of the ifish population as a whole. it's a sampling of the people who actually bothered to participate in it. therefore, i don't see how interpolating the results of the poll across the entire ifish population could lead to a valid result. not voting counts as data as well. it means they really don't care about this issue, not even enough to vote for "don't care".
by the way, no hard feelings on this, ok? it's nothing personal. heck, i've probably never fished next to you and wouldn't know it if i had.
the reason that i'm against having a separate board is partly because we already have a board dedicated to flyfishing that isn't doing very well these days. according to my "last 10 days" filter, there are only 14 active posts there. having their own board hasn't done a lot to increase their posts per day and i don't think it will do much for the bank fishing community either.
the other reason i'm against having yet another board here is the workload on jennie and the mods. they already have enough to do without another board to watch over. they don't get paid to do this. they do it because they care. as it is, we're lucky we have this wonderful resource at our disposal, and even better, most folks didn't pay a dime for it. why look a gift horse in the mouth?

[DF]

I was talking to HOGTIDE about this while fishing with him on sunday.. by the way we got one :wink:

During fall and spring salmon, we're boat fishers.. during winter steelhead, im a bankie, when the salmon move into the coastal streams, im a bankie
keep it one froum, better for us lazy people that don't wanna click around :wink:

[ 09-09-2002, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Drummer/Fisherman ]

[AnglersRental]

Ampersat...

There are about 195 million adults in America, of every imaginable background and circumstance. So how can a typical survey of only 800 or 1,000 adults reflect what the entire country is thinking? How can a thousand voices speak for us all? With a poll and/or statistical sampling. This is a proven and long standing scientific fact. Great decisions and vast sums of money are bet on polls of this sample size every day in this country and worldwide.

Of course if we go with your math, the only conclusion you could reach from a typical nationwide poll of 800 or 1000 respondants would be that 194.999 million americans didn't care about any particular subject.

If you still dont understand, public opinion research is like making a big pot of soup — to taste-test the soup, you don't have to eat the whole pot, or even a whole bowl's worth. You only have to try a bite. The same is true of public opinion. You don't have to ask every single person in America to find out what Americans think; you only need to ask a few to get the flavor of public opinion.

The same will hold true for the Ifish website users. We do not need to ask every single Ifisher an opinion on this subject to get a sample of their opinion. For the total membership of this board (assume 3000) a hundred response 3% survey is more than enough to get an accurate estimate of their opinion. Have you noticed how once the poll was running for a while the percentage numbers have changed little? That is the reason.

This fact is reflected by a survey's margin of error, or sampling error. When public opinion researchers report the margin of error for their polls (usually expressed as something like "plus or minus 3 percent") they are stating their confidence in the data they have collected. The lower the margin of error, the more accurately the views of those surveyed matches those of the entire Ifish population.

You must also remember that every margin of error has a "confidence interval," usually 95 percent. That means that if you asked a question from this poll 100 times, 95 of those times the results would be within 3 percentage points of the original answer. Of course, this means that the other five times you ask the question, you may get answers that are completely off the wall.

For example, if 50 percent of a sample of 100 randomly selected Ifishers said they favor trout fishing over bass fishing, in 95 cases out of 100, 50 percent of the entire population on this website would also have given the same response had they been asked, give or take 3 percentage points (i.e., the true proportion could be 47 people or 53 people).

The bigger the sample, the smaller the margin of error, but once you get past a certain point -- say, a sample size of one or two percent — the improvement is very small. The results of a survey of 50 people will likely be correct within 6 percentage points, while a survey of 100 will be correct within 3 percentage points, a lower margin of error. But that is where the dramatic differences end — when a sample is increased to 200 respondents, the margin of error drops only slightly, to 2 percentage points.

Despite this, some surveys have sample sizes much larger than 100 people. But why ask a thousand respondents when 100 will do? Well, it sounds more impressive, but that's hardly worth the cost of interviewing all those additional people. Usually when a study has a large sample, it is so certain subgroups — like fly fishing anglers or the offshore tuna fishers — can be teased out and compared to each other or to the whole. If you want to compare the fly fishing people to the general Ifish community, for instance, a sample of 100 might yield only one or two people who are dedicated fly fishing fanatics, which will not be enough to get a solid grasp on the views of that group. A sample of 1000, however, will probably yield a larger group of fly fishing people, and provide a more accurate picture of their views.

Sometimes increasing the sample size is not enough, if the subgroup you are examining is rare or particularly hard to find. Say saltwater fly fishing fans, for example, probably make up only a very small small percentage of the Ifish population. In a standard random sample, you would have to interview an enormous number of people before you had a large enough subgroup of saltwater fly fishers. In this instance, you would take an "oversample," purposely seeking out members of the particular group you are interested in, and comparing the results to the main sample.

The typical convention for survey researchers is to report sampling errors that are based on a 50 percent split, where the margin of error is largest.

Based on this we can be confident that with an Ifish population a little over 3000 members, the sample size of 100 responses to the poll is accurate to to a sampling error of plus or minus 3%.

Thus, the current poll response of 48% in favor, 27% opposed, and 25% dont care, means that of the entire 3000 member population we can be confident that, if asked, between 1350 and 1530 members would be in favor, between 720 and 900 would be opposed, and between 660 and 840 dont care.

Further, in regard to your statement:

"not voting counts as data as well. it means they really don't care about this issue, not even enough to vote for "don't care"."

There is little likelyhood that anyone who read the poll would not vote. I have already explaind how those not voting would split. Additionally, you can't read anymore into "I dont care" than "I don't care" those responses mean little to the eventual conclusion and results of the poll. You seem to suggest that not voting or voting "I dont care" is the same as voting "No". Its not, that is silly.

Note that even though you have repeted your position on this subject 6 or 7 times in the last few days with little or no new information, the votes are running nearly 2 to 1 in favor of a seperate bank forum. Bit of Advice: You might try some new or orignal material sometime.

I got the joke by the way, but I got it the first time as well, when Pete told it. He did it better and funnier.

Finally, I believe that it is extremely presumptious for you to speak for Jennie, or anyone else on this board. Jennie can speak for herself and the other moderators can speak for themselves as well. In the future I, for one, would appricate it if you could please refrain from speaking for others.

As far as the moderators go, even though I have no idea of his feelings on a bank oriented forum, I can quote Pliar in reference to the "Salty Dogs" forum:

Pilar
Ifish Forum Guide
Member # 270
posted 09-05-2002 12:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I must say that the Salty dawgs board has exceeded even my wildest imagings.

Let's all take a minute to be thankful for a few things.

1) So many of you are of a mind to learn and try new things.

2) And then you are willing to share with whoever can read - your experiences - your passion - your knowledge and companionship.

3) Last but not least we are all being careful - traveling across the blue waters in groups and planning our trips with proper equipment and consumables accounted for.

I just want to thank you all personally for doing what you do and bringing the world of offshore fishing and boating to the casual reader and the rabid tuna dogs of the world

Feel the force my brothers and sisters, share what you know with the less experienced and live the life.

Thank you my friends!

Can I get an Amen?"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Amen, Brother John!

UG.

[will_e_fish]

Ugly Green - What about all the other good stuff you can only do from the bank like clamming and jetty fishing. Sometimes I use a crab snare with a jetty pole from the beach. If only I knew where Tuna could be caught from the beach it must be a zipperlip!
I would like to see a Bank fisherperson forum and I would support it as some of us fishing diehards are diverse in the types of fishing we do and areas we go. I cover a lot of ground and I am sure lots of others do to. I have had some fisherpeople share info with me and some others be rude both on the bank and boat. It is not an issue of us vs. them as I am one of them. I am always willing to share learn and grow. Always learning tech knowledege and trying to share when I get a chance to pay it forward.

Sharing and mentoring will keep our fisheries open and keep people from doing illegal acts. I wish I had bilingual skills to help more of the nonenglish speaking bank people I have encountered. Dont run into too many of them in the boat. These nonenglish speaking bankees need to know there are people that will help and there are penalties for those who dont listen and accept suggestions ie gear, licenses, limits,snagging and littering.

Sorry about changing the subject to bank police issues. I would like to stay on the opptomistic side of issues as a bankee. Let us move forward to create a "Bankee Forum" and be a united front for educating and communicating, for the goal of keeping our angling opportunities safe from the political agendas that oppress us.

Wow did I set myself up or what? I truly believe in helping others with a passion for fishing as teaching them to fish versus giving them a fish.

[ 09-09-2002, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: will_e_fish ]

[Trick]

I used to share alot more private spots when the board was young but 3000+ members and 1000's more drop by's make me very reluctant to post specifics. I have no problem sharing techs and times but locations....?

I liked the idea of a seperate forum as kind of a shelter with fewer drop-ins. I certainly don't wan't to cause extra work for Jen.

Amperset, your off base on the point that nobody has been bank fishing. I've tagged fish every month this year off the bank and between me and my boys we've tagged about 50 fish, kept several jacks and have released over 100 more. Granted, alot of those fish were caught off of islands (requiring a boat), but still off the bank nonetheless.

Alot of us lucky bankees are afraid to share hot spots because some of the areas we fish can't handle the pressure (to much already). Like I said I always share tech and drop hints very often. Just have to pay attention and read between the lines. :wink:

Todd

[will_e_fish]

Amen Brother Pilar! Share the Force!

Hey Ugly Green-
Here is an idea could we combine the fly fishers and bank fishers, since some ifishers seem to have issues about starting a new forum for bankees. Would the Admin and Mods support that?

[Chris Nordling]

The bankees want their own page, yet I can count 1, maybe 2 reports from the bankees on page 1.

Hmmmm........

Maybe not as popular as people thought :hoboy:

How about we leave it alone graemlins/idea.gif The reports will happen.

It was a nice effort Brad. :cheers:

Chris :cool:

[AnglersRental]

Chinook - I feel the same way, but those who are regular participents in a bankie forum - soooner or later, if it turns out like the "salty dogs" forum, you are gonna find out who the serious players are - like yourself, and with those people, the ones who "get it" I will share information, and hopefully learn someting as well. There is simply just too much background noise in the general forum for that to happen. There is information there, but its too shallow, not "personal" enough, if you know what I mean. Over the course of the summer, I have had the oppertunity to meet most of the "serious players" in the Salty Dogs forum. I dont think that would have happened inthe general forum. I've been on five Tuna trips this year, all with Ifishers, who shared the knowledge and the skills, up too and including pictures of sucessfull riggings for speciality items like handlines. Every time out htere has been at least 3 and as many as 6 Ifish boats in the "wolf pack" chasing the tuna.

I think that a bank / plunkers forum would offer similar oppertunities. Through the salty dogs forum I have found that it is really fun when you can get a group of serious anglers togther all cooperating in the pursuit of the same goal. I envision the "group" bank hunt where perhaps a group of Ifishers heads to the same spot, stakes claim to their own section of beach, and works togther to set lines, watch poles, etc... that would be a blast. It is a special breed that is willing to regularly get the long poles out and sit all day in a lawn chair in crap weather waiting for that one maybe takedown.

Chris, obviously I will follow where Jennie leads, but as of yet, no one has called the question. My latest look has the "no" losing two to one to the "yes". Im still hopeful that we can make this work. Im willing to help out any way I can, if Jennie needs some help, that is.

UG

[HOGTIDE]

:hoboy: :sleep:

[KingFisher85]

:tongue: :grin: :shocked: :sleep:

[MasterCaster]

Very well put UG. Sounds like alot of fun to me. Even if we dont get a Bankie forum we need to hook up and do some fishin sometime.

Jon :smile: :grin: :smile:

[AnglersRental]

Master Caster - I was thinkin of goin for the URB's tommrrow (Sat - 9/14) you interested?
Chris - how bout you? My boat or your bank - either one works. Ampersat? Anyone else?

UG

[MasterCaster]

Check your e-mail UG.

Thanx Jon :smile: :grin: :smile:

[AnglersRental]

Jon... next time leave your phone number... you have mail.

UG.

[DF]

... as soon as winter hits.. the main forum WILL mainly be a bankie forum...
graemlins/idea.gif

..to many forums, to much server space, to hard on jenny
leave it as one, keep as all togeather

:sleep: