I'ts gillnet time again!

[MPT]

From the Saturday Columbian:

COMPACT APPROVES THREE NIGHTS OF GILLNETTING ON COLUMBIA
Saturday, August 3, 2002
By ALLEN THOMAS, Columbian staff writer
Three nights of gillnetting next week in the lower Columbia River will begin Sunday.

The Columbia River Compact on Friday approved netting between the river mouth and the Longview-Rainier bridge from 7 p.m. to 7 a.m. Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday nights.

A predicted run of 659,800 fall chinook salmon have started entering the Columbia River, the third-best return since 1948. Big sport and commercial fisheries are anticipated in the next six weeks.

An estimated 100 to 150 boats are expected to participate in the commercial fishery. The fleet must use nets with a mesh between 8 and 9 3/4 inches.

A catch of up to 16,700 fall chinook, plus a couple of thousand white sturgeon, is expected, said Pat Frazier of the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife.

The netters are projected to handle 400 to 500 steelhead with about 200 dying. All steelhead must be released by non-Indian commercial fishermen.

No green sturgeon may be retained. The commercials will be limited to no more than five white sturgeon per boat per night.

Commercial fishermen have about 6,000 white sturgeon left on their allocation for 2002. The five-sturgeon-per-night limit is intended to hold the harvest to about 2,000 fish in August, saving some sturgeon for September and October fishing.

Most of the catch next week is expected to be "tule" chinook, which earn the fishermen 6 to 13 cents per pound. Tules are salmon destined for lower Columbia River hatcheries and the big Spring Creek National Fish Hatchery in Skamania County.

The pale-meated tules are less desirable than "bright" chinook, which are destined mostly for upstream of McNary Dam

Brights will get commercial fishermen about 50 cents a pound, said Steve Fick, president of Salmon For All, an Astoria-based group of gillnetters and processors.

By contrast, fishermen get $1 to $1.50 per pound for sturgeon, Fick said.

The compact will meet at 11 a.m. Friday at the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife, 2501 S.W. First Ave., Portland, to consider more gillnetting the week of Aug. 12.

Netting in the second week of August would be limited to the Columbia between Grays Bay in Washington and St. Helens in Oregon.

Four to six nights of netting between Reed Island near Washougal and Beacon Rock are planned for the last two weeks in August.

Cecil James Jr., a Yakama Indian Nation member, said the early August season for non-Indians may drive down the price paid to tribal fishermen when their season opens in late August and September in the Bonneville, The Dalles and John Day pools.

James said tribal and non-Indian commercial fishermen need to develop a joint marketing plan to get a better price for their catch.

[Keta]

Is $.13 per pound worth the same as what we put into the economy to catching these fish? :whazzup: A friend of mine in SE Alaska told me they were getting $.06 per pound for bright humpies. :depressed:

I feel it is time to ban ALL gill nets in the river.
I am not anti comercial fisherman (I have gill netted, longlined and trolled commercially and still have a herring and a salmon gill net) but nets should not be allowed in fresh water. :mad:

[ 08-04-2002, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[Flatfish]

I have to agree with Keta on this one.I am far from anti commercial(what to guides do?),but gillnets drive the price down and limit the number of fisherman.Commercial trolling is an artform that we could all learn from.More opportunity less sturg in the nets :mad: :mad: and a better appearance to the public.Don't think that matters?Look at the couger problems Oregon is having now that the public outlawed hunting with dogs.Now we hire "bounty hunters" to take care of "problem animals".I'd put in my 2 cents but I am going to FMS to buy Alvins now.
See you on the water.
Mark.

[ 08-04-2002, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Flatfish ]

[Stew]

The netters are projected to handle 400 to 500 steelhead with about 200 dying. <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Pretty good arguement to get nets off the river!

[Salmonator]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Flatfish:
I am far from anti commercial(what to guides do?)

So you're saying that a person that hires a guide puts the same dollars per fish into the economy than a commercial fisherman does?

[ 08-04-2002, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Salmonator ]

[Nanook]

[ 08-05-2002, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: ****** ]

[crabbait]

Salmonator - I believe he is saying that guides are also a form of commercial fishing. In other words, how could he be anti-commercial fishing and participate as a guide.

[dawhunt]

Commercial Gillnetting should not be ALLOWED in the Columbia River-PERIOD !!!! :mad:
Bob

Correction, NO GILLNETTING should be allowed in the columbia river !!

[ 08-04-2002, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: dawhunt ]

[Salmonator]

Crabbait, I understand what he is saying just don't agree with it. A commercial fisherman has a boat full of nets, a guide has a boat full of SPORT LICENSED fishermen chasing fish with rod and reel. A commercial fisherman will get his fish whether they are on the bite or not (if they are present), a guide still has to make those fish bite using the same fair chase methods that every other sportfisherman uses. Sorry, I just don't see it the same...

After reading through flatfish's post again I'd have to agree with the commercial trolling thing. At least you're cutting way down on incidental catch mortality...

[ 08-04-2002, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Salmonator ]

[Take Down]

The days of market gunning ended long ago. The days of commercial fishing will also end eventually. The question that remains is whether there will be any fish left before it is discontinued. :depressed: :rolleyes:

[Frenchy]

What will happen to all sturgeon caught after 5 have been retained? Right back in the river, dead as a door nail.

[Keta]

Salmonator,

It takes skill to fish with a gill net too. You have to have your net fishing in the path of the fish.

As for guides and charters being commercial they are, they are fishing for money.

I have also seen charter boats in SE Alaska wipe out reefs (yelloweye and halibut) in only a few years.

[Salmonator]

Keta, pharmacists sell drugs for money. Drug dealers sell drugs for money. I suppose ethically they are the same just because they both make money from drugs.

[Keta]

:grin: OUCH :grin:

So far commercial fishing and guiding are still legal though.

[Salmonator]

I'ts too bad about those yelloweye and halibut spots you mentioned. I have fished the yaquina reef for 20 years and have to say that the fishing hasn't changed too much. I understand the yelloweye aren't the most prolific breeders..

[Chris Nordling]

Chris :cool:

[ 08-04-2002, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: FWF1 ]

[Keta]

When I first mooved to Ketchikan there was no limit on rock fish and I saw many boats with 25-50 fish in the fish boxes (both sport and charter). Everyone would bonk and toss quillback rockfish :depressed: (not me and my brother as we knew how tasty they were :smile: ).

[Fishtail]

I guess my plan to fish for steelhead out of Rainer on Tuesday is pretty well shot thanks to these low lifes. I wasn't able to get free until this week and now this happens.... I wonder how the runs would do if the indians and commercial gillnetters were banned from the river..... :mad:

[Keta]

FWF-1,
K :smile:

Either way ALL nets should be banned from the river. :mad:

Fishtail,
The fishing would be much better. We would be catching many fish and then the seine boats would come in and sweep the inlets clean. Then we would catch nothing for the rest of the week. :depressed:

[ 08-04-2002, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[John]

Those gill nets should be banned on the river. This spring in march the we justed started to hook into a few Springers and those *#@*#@ nets went in the fishin just went into the hole. To make matters worse they kept extending the season for them. I guess the fishing on the Columbia won't be very good till the nets are out for a couple of days or a week.

[Chris Nordling]

Keta-

:grin:

I still think the nets gotta go....

Chris :cool:

[ 08-05-2002, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: FWF1 ]

[proguide]

my 2 cents, if you cant catch it on a fishing pole you dont need it.

[Flatfish]

Salmonater,
I did not say that dollars are even did I?I do support some commercial fishing.Do you make your living guiding?Is it hard work?Do you think all jobs should be based on how many dollars you put into the economy?Could you earn more money to help the economy if you were to make a career change? Do you think commercial trollers earn their wage?I would rather support a limited commercial season early in the season and have it done with before the bite turns on,than try to follow a boatful of quality anglers being led by a professional river guide down a river(like the Clack,Sandy,or any of the coastal streams)and try to catch a fish behind them.It is much easier to have a hiccup early and get it done than it is to have smart competition in front of you.Right? Nets that kill Native Steelies and Sturg make me mad.Is this inconvienent to my plans?Yes.Do you think commercial fisherman are well organized and active politically?Are the sports fisherman 10% as active.No.Do we both benefit from more fish returns?Yes.Maybe we can learn a few lessons here, or make some strange bedfellows and work together for the same cause.No because most folks are too busy whining about how somebody got more than their fair share.Too bad so sad.This is why hunters are losing the battle, and we are next on the list.
My 2 cents.
See you on the water.
Mark.

[ 08-04-2002, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Flatfish ]

[AngleThis]

Oh Joy...what we need now is the Valdeze skipper in a scoonert, slightly off course... "Oops, I didn't MEAN to snag your gillnet".

[Salmonator]

Originally posted by Flatfish:
Salmonater,
I did not say that dollars are even did I?
<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">No, but you did make the comparison between commercial fishermen and guides. If you can't make a comparison to local economy benefit (also numbers of fish allocated and sportfishing days allowed) then what can you compare it to? I'd say it is pretty important!

No, I don't guide to make a living. Guiding is what I somehow end up doing to spend the money I make at my first job! graemlins/stupid.gif

[PRINCEMASTER]

In this case it is a matter of dollars and common sense. If the commercial fishermen continue to net the numbers they do it will reduce the amount of fish available. Thus the sports fishermen will have less to catch...therefore less fishermen will come to this state thus reducing the input of money that goes into putting fish back into the water. This will then cause even less to come due to the reduced numbers of fish...see where this is going. Commercial fishing as a whole needs to be looked at. It puts little into the economy but takes much. And as for the people who will loose their jobs..it happens all the time..retrain and do something else. graemlins/icon_argue.gif

[crabbait]

So what should we do?

Should we try to form an alligiance with gillnetters in order to use their lobby to increase fish numbers for all fishermen? or,

Should we form our own alliance with sport fishermen and sport fishing organizations from both Oregon and Washington to lobby and petition for the banning of all fresh water commercial netting (excluding native netting, of course)? or

Should we spend another year complaining about our role as last-to-the-table?

I believe that we have shown that we can have an impact if we are willing to expend a little effort.

'Course, complaining is cheap and worth exactly what you pay for it.

[Jennie@ifish]

Crabbait, I believe you are heading us somewhere.
I understand the anger, the name calling, the complaints, but it gets us no where.

Let's DO something.

Don't call the ODFW, they can't change the rules.

We can, but it will take much effort, and a good lobbyist. We need money, too.

Where do we start?

Jen

[Keta]

I don't like the initiave system but I feel that we can get the signatures to get this on the
ballot.

[crabbait]

I agree, Keta, but this time we need to have initiatives on both Oregon and Washington ballots.

I collected signatures for the last try from Washington. This time we need a concerted effort bringing together as many of the impacted parties as possible. This board and others like it could be the catalyst for change that would help provide fishing opportunities for future generations.

Or, we could whine.

[Paddlefish]

I don't have a problem with a "commercial" take of salmon. If the resource can be managed to allow a certain "sport" take and the resource can stand it, I don't have an issue with "somebody" having the right to a fish commercially and provide salmon to the fresh markets and/or restaurant trade.

Heck, all those one-man trolling operations which proliferated every summer for decades on the Oregon coast were a hard-working, honest bunch -- practically my heroes.

Gillnets on the Columbia, however is another question, and my biggest gripe is the unselective way they take fish: wild, hatchery, the non-targeted species, etc., plus the fact that the gillnets also kill a large number of fish which are never recovered. :depressed:

There are lots of more selective methods, if we seriously want to preserve a commercial fishery but preserve certain strains or species, some as funny-sounding as trapping selected fish right in Bonneville's fish ladders.

Actually, the much reviled and eventually outlawed fishwheels on the Columbia probably had the capability of sorting and releasing the non-targeted species, but the gillnetters had them prohibited because of the impression that they were getting something for nothing. The netters, therefore, applied enough political pressure to change the laws.

Anybody see where I'm going here? graemlins/idea.gif

We'll have to be sure we come on as a positive, thoughtful force with a solution to offer, rather than just a disorganized bunch of selfish complainers whose only words come out sounding like "Our fish" or "No!" :rolleyes:

[Keta]

Fish traps and fish wheels have a much lower mortality rate than gill nets :smile: .

I also forgot about Washington State. We do have to cover both sides of the river.

[Phish_on]

There's the fish-ladder harvest idea again. I think I'm still waiting to hear how it will be decided WHO gets to do that.

I might want a piece of that action. Who wouldn't? :whazzup:

[crabbait]

Phish-on - I believe the idea is to provide Native Americans a method to continue their historic and traditional fishing in a more historic and traditional way, i.e., standing next to moving water with a handmade net with a handle, catching one or two fish at a time. The fish ladder is the closest thing to Celilo Falls that currently exists. Using this method, only specific targeted fish would be retained.

I think that this method would satisfy both the spirit and the letter of the law. No gill nets, no outboards, no big aluminum boats. Just man, net and fish.

This is a fishery that I could happily support.

[Get Bent]

As I am about to expound my theories on this netting issue, please remember that I am the webmaster of Get Bent Tackle and not the owner. Heck, he may agree with me but I wanted to put that out there. With that said:

Seeing the numbers above it only solidifies my beliefs that the fall commercial fishery is used as a write-off for the boats owner. If you do the math (which I've been known to do in the past) you will see that each boat would be *lucky* to get $100 for a night's catch of "mostly" tule chinook, a few URB's, and 5 white sturgeon, even when using the most generous of numbers. The operating costs of those boats surely would be more than $100 a night, so you tell me why they still do it.

I've heard rumors about who owns a lot of these boats, and I would be curious as to check up on that. Anyone know how to find out who owns these boats and commercial fishing licenses?

[Flatfish]

Crabbait,
it's a longshot but i may be able to track down a rep from the commercial end of things that may be willing to help us work together on habitat enhancement and hatchery projects.E-mail if interested.
See you on the water.
Mark.

[invader]

well, time to get my bazzooka out again!

[Stew]

There is no way that a commercial gillnet fishery on the lower Columbia can be a financially viable endevour! So I guess the question is why do these people still do it? Does anyone have an explaination for this?
SS

[John]

I believe it is only a part time job for most. A way to make extra money. I do not see how they can rely on it for a living. I think that all nets in the Columbia should be banned.

[MarlinMark]

:whazzup:

[Get Bent]

Even as a part-time job, expenses would most likely outrun the money made on selling tule's at 13¢ per pound and five sturgeon a night at $1.50 a pound.

Unless they want to lose money for another reason, I can't think of why they would continue to do it.

[Killertraylor]

I've got a friend who is a part time gillnetter and he tells me most of the guys he knows won't be out fishing this week at those poor prices. In fact he might not fish himself if there aren't many bright fish cought. He estimates 50 boats in the estuary - all crammed into the deep water fishing floaters to keep out of the sturgeon. If anyone wants to know how many salmon he catches during each of the 3 openers, shoot me an e-mail. Last time I posted that statistic I got bombarded with hate mail - and I'm not even pro-gill net. I think the numbers help us to know how many fish are in the river and where they are - information that can help us catch fish this weekend.

[Phish_on]

There's an election in November. Here's something you can do: ask the candidates if they would support the elimination of gill net fishing on the Columbia. If they say yes - VOTE FOR THEM.

We need to have support in the Oregon AND Washington legislatures.

I believe that the ifish community could indeed gather the signatures for an initiative. But we should elect and lobby our representatives first - an initiative would take a lot more energy. And getting it to PASS is yet another matter.

OK, I think you could do a tribal fishery at the dams ... still skeptical about a general commercial fishery.

[Killertraylor]

Just got off the phone with a gillnetting friend. Bad news - they might extend the season into next week because of poor catches in the estuary during the first two openers. The cannery said the average per boat was 5 sturgeon (maximum permitted) and 8-10 chinook. They'll see what happens tomorrow night and then decide for certain whether to continue the season into next week. He said the last opener would be no later than Tuesday next week, and if they do let them in the river - it sounds like it will be upriver, not in the estuary. Price has gone up a bit - $2 a lb. for the 5 sturgeon and .60-.70 for URB, but still not worth fishing for most guys - there were only about 30 boats out last night below the bridge. You can guarantee that if they let them go in next week every guy with a gillnet license will be out there if they let them go below the Astoria Megler bridge. Please don't send me nasty e-mails for posting this information - I'm just reporting the facts as I learned them.

[Get Bent]

Thanks for posting the information. Good information.

[Sturgeon 42]

Yes, very good for us up river fishermen... :cheers: