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View Full Version : How much is your $$ worth?


Pilar
07-01-2002, 01:35 PM
Have you ever stopped to ponder how much your stop at the coast tackle shop is worth to the proprietor of that business? The gas you buy, the bait, the kicker fuel hose you left at home and replace at the ramp. Little Timmy's new pole to replace the one that got slammed in the truck door?

It would sure be useful to know how much money we as fishers spend pursuing our passion. In the fight for recognition by the regulating authorities money is a good in.

The problem is that we fishers as political activists are the late show. The commercial guys have been having their say for as long as the fisheries have been regulated. Out of pure self interest.

So all of the politicians and media only recognize commercial fishers and their interests as legitimate and newsworthy. After all we are 'recreational' fishers, yes? How can anyone take that seriously?

We spend money and lots of it, that's how!

Does anyone know how much? Or what would happen if we all found something to do besides play with boats at the coast?

I have an idea and you can help. I need Marie's help as well. Marie, tell us how to make my idea work from a tackle store owner/proprietor viewpoint.

It goes like this.

1) We get a survey going at the businesses on the coast that are affected by fishers like you and me. Collecting information about what you are fishing for, what you are buying and how much you spend is the goal.

2) The people who fish at the coast keep logs of their trips. Hours on the water, where you fished and what the bag was.

3) The information is shared with the political reps from the areas in question. We can raise their awareness to something other than commercial fishermen.

Using the information gathered we can do several things. First and foremost we can make our economic impact known and quantified. Second we can establish a presence on these regulating authorities radar scopes. The types of fish caught, how many and what is released would greatly help in arguing for closures or against them. Many arguments are used by the current commercial fishers to justify their activities and the 'right' to continue their overfishing.

Including .... 'We've been here for years and how will we make a living if you .... etc, etc..'

'We are the only significant users of the fishery'

and of course 'The economic impact will devastate the coastal economy if we can't fish anymore'.

We as private citizens and fishers can make the same arguments. We are however lacking in hard data to back it up.

So ... help me out here. We need a survey form distributed to the businesses on the coast. How do we manage that? Mail it? How do you get these businesses involved?

Maybe the cashier asks the obvious fisher where they are fishing, what they are fishing for and notes the money spent. More work for the business but worth it because the businesses will miss the recreational fisher when we lose the right to fish in the ocean.

What do you think?

[ 07-01-2002, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

AngleThis
07-01-2002, 01:44 PM
John,

At Newport last weekend, an OSU student stopped me at the dock and asked if I would take a survey... exactly the same questions you would ask for this purpose. The survey was lengthy and obviously designed to determine the economic impact closing fisheries. ...Lots and lots of questions about how much I spent here and there, this weekend, over a year, on everything from tackle, to licensess and fees, money into my boat, etc, etc. etc.

I suggest you contact OSU because the data youre hoping to collect is already in process.

BUGLEMAN
07-01-2002, 01:51 PM
That took all of about 9 minutes. Isn't the WWW great!

You still have to ask who, what, where, when and why?

Pilar
07-01-2002, 01:53 PM
I took this survey last summer. However it is focused on dock interviews. I think the focus has to be on the businesses. The principal motivator for political involvement/interest by politicians seems to be economic. A survey at the affected businesses would drive the point home. Money spent by commercial fisher vs. money spent by Joe sport fisher. And then somehow compare damage done to the resource by commercial fisher vs. damage done by the sport guy. At least argue for some representation on the regulating comissions based on real not percieved economic impact.

We should beat that drum loud and continuously.

How do we contact the dock survey people?

Pete
07-01-2002, 02:07 PM
Here's where I'd start: Oregon State University SeaGrant Program. (http://seagrant.orst.edu/hot/index.html)

I'd do it myself right now, but I have to run.

scrod
07-01-2002, 02:19 PM
Some of the buisnesses already collect data through associations. Motels, restaurants to name a couple. We need some of these bigger lobbies to help us out with info.

Point-of-Sale Clerk
07-01-2002, 02:20 PM
Try this new survey Pete

ftp://ftp.dfw.state.or.us/pub/Jody%20White/SFWB%20Interview%20Questions%20June%2025.doc

*** Clerk

[ 07-01-2002, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: *** Clerk ]

Jim
07-01-2002, 02:21 PM
Pilar,
NSIA may have some info on this. I know that my accountant tells me that for my guide business it cost me $200 a day to take the sled and go fishing. That should get you pointed in a direction. Lets see...$200 per day X 2500 ifishers X 10 times per year per person...YIPES!! as my son would say. Thats a cool $5,000,000.00, and thats way low!

Jim

garyk
07-01-2002, 04:07 PM
Adding to what Jim just said, I thought NSIA plowed this ground already, from the perspective of the shop owner?

Is Liz Hamilton (NSIA's Exec.Dir.) on here, what does she say?

Pete
07-01-2002, 04:41 PM
***, how about a description of what that file is? I tried to download it and it locked up my system.

bigshark
07-01-2002, 05:11 PM
Pilar
I think your on target but the problem is that our legislature doesn't pay much attention to what makes good economic sense. I'm not able to tell you much more than that, but I can tell you that its not my opinion, but of more than one who have first hand knowledge. The darn partisan thing is keeping reasonable people from making reasonable decisions. We the "people" are the ones short changed in the process. The one thing you should keep in mind however is that your efforts can't hurt, and one of these days we could get lucky. If you wave reason in their faces long enough,
it has to have some effect..............I hope!

Point-of-Sale Clerk
07-01-2002, 07:18 PM
Pete

Word file- ODFW right click then choose “save target as” and you will be able to transfer the file. Are you using Netscape or MS Explorer?

*** Clerk

boater
07-01-2002, 07:36 PM
click this, from washington a few years ago (http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/depinfo/director/jul2299a.htm)

OceanBlue
07-01-2002, 07:57 PM
Our elected officials are concerned with whatever is going to get them re-elected next term... if a large number of concerned citizens raise their voices and express that concern in the right way, to the right ears, it gets heard. That's the beauty of this great country. You have the right to complain in the comfort of your own living room (where it is doubtful anyone will do anything about your complaints), or you can complain publicly and be heard.

If everyone sat back, gave up and said that our legislature didn't care, would the hatcheries still be open? Nope. I think a whole lot of people decided to do their part about something they were passionate about and look what happened?

Land of the free....

Pilar
07-01-2002, 08:16 PM
Well there is the down side to hanging it out there. I prefer to become disillusioned on my own in my own time.

I figure that if I make no effort at all to get involved in the decision making process my chances of changing things are pretty much 0%.

If your goal is not to fail then do nothing, say nothing and be nothing.

Let's at least try and see what happens ......

[ 07-01-2002, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

STGRule
07-01-2002, 08:29 PM
***: I am wondering what interview questions for a biologist position have to do with assigning an economic value to the sport fishery?

Point-of-Sale Clerk
07-01-2002, 09:22 PM
STGRule

ODFW asks what we sports fishermen think is important, this scoring sheet shows us what ODFW thinks is important. Knowing the prevailing attitudes that currently exist within ODFW is essential to making positive changes. I look for hints as to what upcoming policy is likely to be. It is one thing to listen to a very good live presentation by Mr. Chilcote, it is another to see what other staff believes is important ideals and qualities.

*** Clerk

Jerry Dove
07-01-2002, 09:40 PM
I do beleive the sport fishermen have been heard loud and clear. I have said for years that you can't get sport fishermen to come together. Boy did you folks prove me wrong this time. We have to keep it up. We have won this one. Dr. John could veto things in the next few day. Let's hope not. We will have to keep letting them hear from us all the way through the next Leg. session. The survey is a good idea. We can make up one and give it to the sport shops, marinas, camp grounds etc. We also can do it our selves at all of these places. Let's talk about it. Jerry

Pilar
07-02-2002, 08:22 AM
All right Jerry, lets go. I'll propose a few and all good ideas are welcome. The point of this is to define and emphasize the economic impact of the sports fisher on the coast economy. I understand that the NSIA has done some work here and we should use that info as well.

Economic impact is most often used to illustrate the adverse impact of rule changes that affect resource based industries. We should follow this time tested approach when we seek input to the management process of the near shore fisheries.

How about some proposed questions for the shopkeepers to ask the customers. If you do this right and the questions are asked in the right context, the fishers and shopkeepers will know that this really matters and will willingly participate.

1) Where are you fishing today and for how long?

2) What are you fishing for?

3) What is your estimate of the cost of this trip?

4) What part of that money do you plan to spend at the coast?

5) Where else will you shop today?

6) What facilities did you need today that you could not find near where you fished?

If the survey occurs after fishing maybe the survey could include bag info and location of catch.

Deleted User
07-02-2002, 08:29 AM
I would say my $5 is worth exactly $5 , but i'm not sure why.

Jerry Dove
07-02-2002, 09:41 PM
How about, did you stay overnight, if so where and how much. Did you buy bait, tackle etc. How about gas, food, boat repair, car repair. Did you checkwith the local Chamber of commerce.? Have you looked at property or have you bought property in the county. How many trips to county in a year. Do you bring your family. Do they fish with you, or do they do other things while you fish? If so what do they do, do they spend $$? Do you hire a guide? Do you bring your own boat? We need all the info we can get. Jerry

OceanBlue
07-03-2002, 07:58 AM
I agree we need all the info we can get, but we need to keep it as short as possible, too... Perhaps we put together a list and prioritize what the most meaningful data are?