Gordon Creek Drift Boat Slide Posted

[kong]

When did the drift boat slide down spot at Gordon Creek across from Oxbow park on the Sandy R been posted no parking between May 1st and Oct. 30th? That really sucks, especially if you even wanted to bank fish along the east side of the Sandy in that area! Is this the doings of the Oxbow Ranger (xxxxxxxx) to increase their revenues and create their own fishing club so drift boaters can't get on the water before their park opens at 06:30?

[ 06-10-2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Gizmo Man ]

[Get Bent]

:tongue:

[ 06-10-2002, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Get Bent Tackle ]

[ampersat]

technically, that area is within oxbow park. in the past, it hasn't been an issue. however, with all of the hooliganism that went on over there last summer, i can see why they shut it down for the summer. i'm sorry to see that folks are missing out on putting in early but those are the breaks.

[BUGLEMAN]

This has been a 3 pronged approach and closing the obvious and safe areas is the last straw. The Gordon cr. bar is the best beach on the river and we have spend many summer weekends down there playing volleyball. It is best accessed from the E side. I was very dissapointed to see the guard rail put up at the parking area and even the piles of dirt and no parking signs at the area posted as a day use area. This stinks heavily of Metro. They have used massive amounts of levey money to buy Sandy river property and then close it. (There was a huge article in the Oregonian about this) The postings are social legislation plain and clear. This access should not be denied.

[ 06-10-2002, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: BUGLEMAN ]

[ampersat]

as i recall, last summer in this area a young lady was pretty seriously injured as a result of a fight between two other people who had been drinking. this was not the only altercation in that area last summer. also, while fishing this area from inside the park, i have seen plenty of garbage accumulate there.

if there were enough resources, either from the park itself or from law enforcement, to ensure the safety of law abiding folks using that area, i'd fight to leave it open. however, with the general lack of funding that every program seems to be experiencing these days, i don't see either of these things happening. again, i'm sorry that some folks are being denied access to this land, but as the saying goes the few ruin it for the many.

there is another access point to that side of the park; i would be interested in knowing whether they closed that one down as well. it's down a pretty overgrown roadway that you'd completely miss if you weren't looking for it. it's a long walk down from the parking to the river, which is why it probably doesn't get used much.

[WheresMyBobber]

Can't fish from a boat above the powerlines, now this DB access point is closed.

Hmmmm.....

graemlins/lurk.gif

[ 06-10-2002, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: WheresMyBobber ]

[kong]

Originally posted by WheresMyBobber:
Can't fish from a boat above the powerlines, now this DB access point is closed.

Hmmmm.....

graemlins/lurk.gif <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">

[kong]

WheresMyBobber,
Then how is one supposed to a get a DB into those salmon holding holes at sunup from the powerlines on down to Dabney?

[kong]

Bugleman, this is a fine example why we need to get rid of Metro! This tax gobbling bully's issues can be dealt with by our city and county governments! Lets get rid of them(Metro) forever!!!

[Jennie@ifish]

Posting negatives about someone without their knowledge or without proof that they committed an offense is against the ifish policy.
Please think carefully about the effects this kind of post could have on people before you hit "send".
Jen

[THE KIWANDA KID]

SO MUCH FOR POSTING AN OPINION. LETS BE CAREFUL NOT TO STEP ON ANYONES TOES BOYS AND GIRLS. I WONDER IF SAYING ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THE ODFW OR THE STATE IS ALLOWED ? SEEMS TO ME THERE WAS PLENTY OF THAT WHEN THERE WAS A THREAT TO LOSE HATCHERIES AND BROODSTOCK PROGRAMS BUT GOD FORBID WE SHOULD DEFEND ACCESS RIGHTS!!! PICK A SIDE MODERATORS. :mad:

[fishbait]

Kiwanda,

Interesting point........ graemlins/icon_argue.gif

Moderators?

[wiser]

Before this goes too far. Two sections of guardrail were installed along Gordon Creek Road, adjacent to Oxbow Park properties, late last summer. The guardrail was installed at the reguest of the Multnomah County Sherriff's Office(MCSO). The request was made in an attempt to control and limit parking and thus control the number of individuals who could use the area. MCSO experienced a significant increase in the amount of manpower and resources needed to answer calls and control dangerous and illegal activities in the area. Calls included complaints of assault, domestic disputes, alcohol use, illegal fires and blocking traffic to name a few. The activities continued and trouble escalated during the late summer. MCSO recommended a parking closure along the road right of way on Gordon Creek Road. Multnomah County has jurisdiction regarding parking regulation on public roadways. Metro has none. The road right of way was signed as no parking May1 through October 1 by Multnomah County's Transportation Division after granting the request from MCSO.
Metro Regional Parks management has cooperated with MCSO and Multnomah County's Transportation Department to control dangerous and illegal activities in the area but didn't initiate any of the regulatory actions that have occurred.

[wiser]

BTW,
Driftboat access is not closed, only the parking is regulated. That access area has been subjected to resource damage over the years but has never been closed. If I might suggest, figure out a way to get your rig shuttled down stream immediately after offloading. You will get your boat in and leave your vehicle downstream in an area where it will be much safer from vandalism. Only a suggestion. Hope it helps

[ 06-10-2002, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: Wiser? ]

[cully]

i'm with kong, plenty of opinions from everyone but one contrary to public opinion and HOLD THE PHONE we gotta check this one out first. Gimme a break. If thats the way it goes we'd still be in Viet Nam. No I won't explain. If you did not live through it to bad. Or maybe to good. QUESTION AUTHORITY IS THE FIRST RULE. Intersted in rule number two?

[Gizmo Man]

Since I was the one to xxxxx out the name, I ask how you would feel if your name was in the xxxxx out area without proof that you did something simply because someone speculates that it was you.

Check your facts and if it's true then go for it.

Don't flame someone because you do not like an action.

As far as voicing an opinion about what an agency does or does not do and it is factual then express your opinion.

Giz....

[ 06-10-2002, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: Gizmo Man ]

[TideRunner]

:hoboy:

[Salmonator]

Originally posted by Gizmo Man:


Check your facts and if it's true then go for it.

Don't flame someone because you do not like an action.<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">This is confusing. Is it flame on or flame off? :whazzup: graemlins/eek13.gif

[Steelie Ben]

Ya' know, I am a young one and I am hip to all the circles out in east county and if I am not mistaken Gordons Creek is refered to by most of the college crowd as Stoners Beach. I have been down there numerous times during the summer and have witness several fights, minors in possesion and all the other stuff that goes along with it. I am not a drift boat owner and have never even seen the slide ramp there used, not to say it doesn't get used. I try to avoid that place in the summer now anyways, the fish are always spooked there cause of all the activity. Anyways, thats just my .02
Ben

[THE KIWANDA KID]

OH GOLLY GIZ, I TOTALY FORGOT ABOUT RELEASING MY FIRST AMMENDMENT RIGHTS WHEN I JOINED . THANKS FOR THE REMINDER . I SHOULD BE MORE LEVEL HEADED ABOUT ALOT OF THINGS I READ ON A BB THAT CONSISTS OF UNSUBSTANTIATED HEARSAY AND RUMOR FROM ARMCHAIR EXPERTS LIKE MYSELF. AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ALL THE TIME AND WE ALL KNOW THE FACTS BEFORE WE EXPRESS AN OPINION ALL THE TIME. AND HE WHO HATH NOT SINNED BE THE FIRST TO CAST...... THE FIRST STONE! GO AHEAD LITTLE BROTHER THE BEAR WILL SLEEP RIGHT THRU YOU BEATING HIM WITH THAT BROOMSTICK. HONESTLY I SHOULD GET MORE COUCH TIME. I HOPE WE CAN DISCUSS THIS OVER A BEER OR CUP OF COFFEE SOMEDAY . HOW ABOUT AT THE NEXT RIVER RIGHTS HEARING WITH THE NWSA? HERES A THOUGHT, WE SHOULD FORWARD THIS TO THE WARM SPRINGS INDIANS PERHAPS THEY CAN PUT SOME GAURD RAILS AROUND THE MONEY PIT ISLANDS I READ ABOUT ON THIS THREAD BUT CANT PROVE EXISTS BECAUSE GOD KNOWS I DONT HAVE ALL THE FACTS. WILL THE REAL "EXPERTS" WITH ALL THE " FACTS " PLEASE STAND UP. graemlins/icon_argue.gif OOPS LITTLE BROTHER I COULD HAVE BEEN WRONG.

[BUGLEMAN]

The opinions I posted are fairly accurate. It is obvious metro doesn't controll right-of-way issues but I would bet someone at metro had a few things to say about closing off the entire way of public access to that beach. This hasn't been just a 1 year issue it has been over 3-4 years with more and more signs going up. It started with the slide area being posted. Same deal with the pilings driven at the top of the slide launch. Anyone notice the huge spikes driven in it. Boys please take a few whacks at them every time you go by. In a few week there would just be slivers left.

Who has a vested interest in seeing that slide never gets used? How about metro and the river greedy fly fishermen who are on record as motivated to make the Sandy their private fishing paradise, where the only access opens late in the morning. Come on the transportation departmenet didn't initiate the action to drive those pilings.

My question here is who's toes have we stepped on. It is my observation when you get warnings you are on the right track, at least when it comes to important issues.

Yes the slide gets used. It always has fresh skid marks on it.

Wiser I don't think you can ever go to far on this issue. That is public land and a public ROW. There is no access to the best beach on the Sandy river now. How many people get up in the morning at 3:30 just to shuttle a rig. Your suggestion is impractable. Unless a guy drops the boat and parks way up on top of the hill and bikes down and locks it at the slide launch. Still an unnessasary bunch of BS maybe even too time consuming. I bet metro would be all for it if the area was posted parking by metro pass only.

We have hauled many loads of trash out of that hole and even made some of the delinquents haul out trash too. Let me be the first to say it here on ifish. Metro is a power grabbing, green head, money suck hole.

At this point there is a loop hole. There is still a parking area marked as a day use area and the sinage used to deliniate it with arrows. If you got ticketed you would win in court as it is a contradiction. No parking in a day use area?????? The day use signs are bigger too.

Thanks for this forum.

[crabbait]

Kong and Kiwanda Kid - From the Acceptable Use Policy that you were encouraged to read before registering: "You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is defamatory, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law."

In my opinion, some of the comments that were posted could be considered defamatory and hateful, like insinuating that someone is trying to deny access to the river in order to increase revenues or stating that an agency is responsible for an action that is completely outside their jusrisdiction.

No, you did not give up any constitutional rights when you agreed to abide by the written ifish policy. Instead, you entered into a contract that said you would post in a responsible manner and that we would edit, move, or delete posts if you did not. We will live up to our end of the bargain and will make every effort to be fair while doing so.

None of the moderators that I know are shy or adverse to posting our opinions. We do like to look carefully at the facts before doing so.

I think that Wiser's explanation makes sense. I do not want to leave my vehicle in an area that is known to have a high vandalizm rate and I understand the need to control the problems that he outlined.

Welcome to ifish, guys. We welcome you opinions. Just try not to throw rocks while people are trying to fish. :smile:

[BUGLEMAN]

Originally posted by fishbait:
Kiwanda,

Interesting point........ graemlins/icon_argue.gif

Moderators?<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Yes Fishbait is nice to be among the 10%.

I just wanted to warn you to be carefull. My observation is that you get kicked off the website when you call attention to the hypocracy of the moderators on BB's. The 1st ammendment really isn't applicable here. What is more important is the fat advertising budget of GI Joes ETC.

[ 06-11-2002, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: BUGLEMAN ]

[BUGLEMAN]

[ 06-10-2002, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: BUGLEMAN ]

[POS Clerk]

Bugleman

I have posted at this site for a long time. I have never taken a view that people would say is moderate, yet in that time I have only had two posts edited and those were not for being controversial but rather for verbally assaulting and bashing defenseless rednecks. :grin: The moderating at this site is some of the finest found anywhere on the net. It is not always easy to decide what steps over the line when emotions are involved, if you think it is easy you should try being a moderator for a while.

[SandySteel]

This thread just goes to show that it is easier to flame someone, get angry, yell in all caps, and just spout about an issue (and in the long run make an a** out of yourself) then to have a thoughtful, interesting, and helpful discussion about a controversial topic.

[BUGLEMAN]

It is evident that someone doesn't want that slide used. It is not posted as being closed yet the pilings say otherwise. I really doubt that it could be closed.

The real issue POS Clerk is the accusation of resource damage. That is false and inflamatory. The flood of 1996 filled in that delta at least 8' and Gordon Creek cut at least 6' in the first year after. My question to you is on a scale of percentages at what point do you consider damage given the realism of millions of cubic feet being disturbed by nature. Not to mention the fact that the Sandy R. moved at least 200' S during that event. We are talking a few cubic feet of soil, at the most, moved around by drift boats. How many cubic feet of silt etc. has been dumped into the Sandy by the parks admistration and the highway Dept. There is no damage. Just a drift boat trail.

[BUGLEMAN]

Eric so what can be done? Is this an important access point for you and your club members? I actually would support the Gordon Creek parking area being posted as parking by permit only. It is a somewhat dangerous area for recreation. How about a reduced speedlimit. I bet Metro wouldn't want to take on that liability. That's what it comes down too. It burns that they have all the money in the world to make million dollar acquasitions yet can't even put out a few trash barrels. Metro admitts they can't manage the resources they have. Why buy more. Metro admitts to wanting to make the Sandy river a pristine and contiguous show piece. I say the frustration vented towards Metro and even the county is founded in fact. Just don't make it personal towards someone who is just doing his job.

Look what the county and metro did to the huge access along Dabny park and Stark street bridge. CLOSED - all the parking has been posted. Summer recreation of the Sandy river has gone down. You can't even leave a shuttle rig at Dabney B4 6am. These are very important recreation resources for the entire region that metro supposedly represents. Yet they support closing them. They are forcing us to use the developed and fee collecting parks. Social legislation. There is already social issues at Dabney. The swimming area is crowded and unpleasent

As far as Gordon creek. How about a few trips down to the bar by the men in blue before things got out of hand? I admitt the punks down there bug the heck out of me. Word travels fast in that Corbet crowd. Yes of the underage, they are mostly local kids down there and were the source of most of the problems. How about posting the beach no booze like in Troutdale. The men in blue have no problems writing tickets there. That would deflect most of the undesireables.

There is solutions to the problems posed by at least 1000 park visits per week, probably more. I bet that little beach sees more use during the summer than the front gate of Oxbow. So it is easy to start looking at motives and principalities. If you think about it, understanding motives is the first step toward fruitful results. That is why I pass judgement in this circle.

[ 06-11-2002, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: BUGLEMAN ]

[wiser]

Wish I had time to go into this but not the time or place. I am willing to offer perspective if asked. One point I would like to make is that the old slide at Gordon Creek was never closed. Posts, with spikes to prevent chainsaw removal were only placed, many, many years ago, to prevent vehicles from accessing the flats(when they were "Buck Creek Flats" and causing resource damge. The plank was placed on top of the posts to facilitate, not deter, sliding a boat over the posts. If you asked those who used the area before the posts went in, you would find this arrangement made for easier access while preventing vehicles(four wheeling) from deepening ruts and causing more damage.
To late at nite right now to address all the points made but fel there is a lot of missing information and inaccurate assumptions being expressed. I understand some frustration with access. I too, wish the resources were available to provide more and better access. I fish too. There may be a way to work together in providing better and/or more access.

[ampersat]

i personally like the fact that metro is managing the oxbow park area and feel that they are doing a fine job of it. the $35 or so i paid for a season pass pales in comparison to the amounts i spend on gas, gear and bait in the course of a year. sometimes i'd like to get into the park a little earlier in the morning, but someone has to get up and open that gate in the morning and i'm glad it's not me.

in return for this fee, i get a clean park where i can expect access to some pretty good stretches of river, free of harassment by drunk and/or stoned teens. if the park weren't there, it would most likely be privately owned and posted no trespassing. while this would work out great for all the locals who would know those who own the land and thus get access, it would really stink for the rest of us who don't know who owns the land, and thus not get access.

back to the point, so you've got some bad apples out there who are ruining the public access of the beach. it hasn't closed the slide itself, just made shuttling rigs difficult. i've heard a lot of people complain about it, but i haven't heard anyone come up with any solutions.

on the other hand, this issue is much like cd copy protection and dvd scrambling: the powers that be spend thousands of dollars trying to protect something and the public finds a way to defeat it. i doubt closing the parking there is going to stop the teens from piling up on stoners beach. for those who use this area, either for the beach or for the drift boat slide: would you be willing to pay to use this access point to cover the cost of putting a law enforcement officer there to keep the peace and keep it safe for everyone?

[Jennie@ifish]

Sandy Steel:
Right on, and a big problem as to why we have trouble coming together as one powerful voice for the sports fisheries.
People usually listen to reason, and are receptive to calm, thoughtful ideas presented in a respectful manner.
I truly believe in access rights, but I feel there is probably a better way to try and solve a problem. What can be done on this stretch that would change things?
Jen

[ 06-11-2002, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[BUGLEMAN]

Good to know that you can use the slide for a boat. That hill is so steep I can't imagine even the greatest of all rednecks wanting to drive there 4x4 down there. Especially now with an 8' drop at the end. Your points are great. Yah Oxbow is a pleasent albeit sterile park. I use this access to the beach personally and the shuttle requirements have made the slide launch ineffective.

[NEUTRON]

Wiser... thanks for your explanations...I have launched my boat there in the past few years without an issue...always wondered about the signs and if the poles at the top of the slide were meant to deter us. It only takes a few to ruin it for everyone. I like those challenging
launches that keep most away as they are afraid to scratch their boats.

[M W Sheller]

GOOOOOLLY GEE Gurtrude, this is almost as "good" as the "jig wars" on that WA site graemlins/berry.gif graemlins/berry.gif graemlins/icon_argue.gif :sleep:

[THE KIWANDA KID]

CRABBAIT..... PLEASE LOOK OVER THE THREAD A LITTLE CLOSER. I DID NOT SLAM ANYONE THAT I KNOW OF AND ONLY POSTED BECAUSE I FELT IN MY OPINION THAT AN INJUSTICE WAS DONE BY THE MODERATORS. I HAVENT EVEN BEGUN TO GIVE YOU AN OPINION ON THE SLIDE MATTER AND I WONT BECAUSE IVE BEEN TOLD NOT TO WITH OUT THE FACTS. AND TO WHOM EVER IT MAY CONCERN IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT I WRITE IN CAPS BECAUSE I LIKE TO. I HOPE THATS OK, IF NOT I'M SURE I'LL BE TOLD. MAYBE IN THE FUTURE WE WILL BE EDITED BEFORE A POST IS ALLOWED TO EVEN SHOW UP ON THE BOARD...NOW THAT WOULD BE MODERATING . BETTER YET PERHAPS WE SHOULD HAVE SOMEONE HOLD OUR HAND AND HELP US WITH SPELL CHECK TO. OH ONE MORE THING, DID ANYONE ELSE CATCH THE ALLEGATION THAT IF YOU LIVE IN EAST COUNTY AND ATTEND COLLEGE YOU MAY BE A STONER? GOSH THAT MUST HAVE JUST SLIPPED RIGHT BY. NOW THAT IS WHAT I WOULD CALL FLAMING. THE ONLY THING LEFT TO DO NOW IS THE SENSIBLE THING AND THAT WOULD BE AS JEN SUGGESTED AND COLLECTIVELY DO SOME THING TO RIGHT THIS TERRIBLE WRONG AND PUT EVERYTHING TO REST IN A CALM COOL MODERATED KINDA WAY BEFORE WE ALL JUST WANNA SAY TO HECK WITH IT. I HOPE THAT NO PERSONAL FEELINGS HAVE BEEN HURT HERE I SIMPLY WONT STAND TO SEE A ONE SIDEDNESS IN ANY ISSUE BECAUSE NOBODY WILL GAIN OR LEARN FROM THAT. HAVE A NICE DAY. TIGHT LINES THE KID :cool:

[ZaQ]

Hehe, I love these kind of threads! :cheers:

[Jennie@ifish]

IF you like these kinds of threads, you can go read them on some other bulletin boards, notorious for this kind of thread.
You can restart this topic in a positive problem solving manner, or drop it all together.
Thanks,
Jen

[kong]

Originally posted by BUGLEMAN:
Good to know that you can use the slide for a boat. That hill is so steep I can't imagine even the greatest of all rednecks wanting to drive there 4x4 down there. Especially now with an 8' drop at the end. Your points are great. Yah Oxbow is a pleasent albeit sterile park. I use this access to the beach personally and the shuttle requirements have made the slide launch ineffective.<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">

[kong]

Originally posted by kong:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="verdana,arial,helv">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Originally posted by BUGLEMAN:
Good to know that you can use the slide for a boat. That hill is so steep I can't imagine even the greatest of all rednecks wanting to drive there 4x4 down there. Especially now with an 8' drop at the end. Your points are great. Yah Oxbow is a pleasent albeit sterile park. I use this access to the beach personally and the shuttle requirements have made the slide launch ineffective.<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Geeeeeez, I didn't know that my first post would bring such an emotional response from all you avid sportspeople! I can't wait to post another"PC" inquiry in the near future!!!