Oversize sturgeon questions.

[powerstrokincowboy]

I have been reading all of the posts about the big gators, and we are goin' after them on Sunday. I have been below the fishery catching keepers on smelt, but never oversize, so I have some questions.
:wink:
We plan to bring smelt (from the Cowlitz this spring), sand shrimp, and squid for keepers -- the freezer is now void of sturgeon! We have always used smelt by putting the hook and line thru the midpoint on the body of the smelt, and then in the top of the body parallel to the spine with the hook sticking up thru its head. We then put a few half-hitches of line on the smelt to keep it secure. This has worked great. So what is the best way to bait the shrimp or squid?
graemlins/1zhelp.gif
We also plan to go after some shad for oversize bait. I have read the posts, so all I have left to do is go pick up some more Dick Nite spoons. But how do you rig the shad on the hook? Do you use the fish whole, or a fillet? And what size hook is good for oversize?

And finally, how much weight is needed near the fishery to keep the shad down? We have cannonball weights up to about 24 oz. Should I get some big stuff?
:whazzup:
Any info from you veteran gator hunters would be very much appreciated!

(I will find out today if the boat is full. If not, I will add this to the post if anyone wants to go along.)

[RichH]

I generally like to filet my shad and use strips with a 7/0 to 9/0 hook. My technique for hooking them is similar to what you do with smelt. For whole shad I like to hook them through the head and use half-hitches up the body. Cut off the fins and gillplates first.

The better peeler water seems to be 32oz + so I would definitely get some bigger weights.

Good Luck. :grin:

[Pilar]

Dick Nites are good, look for the ones that say 'Wee' on them.

You can do shad for peelers a few different ways.

1) Whole shad... use an 11/0 octopus hook. VMC and Mustad make these. You can get them at Fishermans or Englunds. You need a roll of nylon cord, the 36# size and some 200# barrel swivels. We use lead up to 4lb, especially with whole baits. Lets see .. a crab bobber, used downrigger release and some screw eyes.

The rig is a doubled nylon bumper tied between two 200# swivels. Tie the 7 ft nylon cord, doubled up to one swivel. I use the toughline knot with two cords and it works.
Slide another swivel up the bumper for a weight slider and loop the end of the bumper onto the 3rd swivel. Tie the knot end swivel to your main line. Put a crosslock clip on the slider swivel for your weight.

On the other end of your bumper is where you tie your bait. Snell about 6 feet of nylon cord on each 11/0 hook, leave these leaders loose until you bait up. To bait the shad, push the hook into the spot between the eyes and out the mouth. Slash the back of the fish in several places (5 or 6) working back to the tail. 1/2 hitch the leader onto the shad, using the slashes to hold the hitches in place. Clip off the tail flukes with scissors to prevent spin.

Tie the remaining leader tag end to your bumper. Use the toughline knot.

Now make a 'dog'. Screw the eyes into the opposite ends of your crab float. Tie the pointy end to your 'spare' rod and reel. Clip the downrigger clip to the other end.

Put a weight on your sturgeon rig. Place the downrigger clip on your bumper by the top swivel and carefully lower this into the river. Let the crab float support the weight and let both rods roll back behind the boat. When it gets there, jerk on the sturgeon rod and let out line till you hit the bottom. You are now fishing. Reel in the 'Dog' for the next slow motion cast.

This gets your bait out away from the boat so that current motion of the boat does not drag your gear around and get you snagged.

2) Use just the gills. Same rig with less weight. You may have to go to this method in really fast water. Push the hook through in several places and stretchy thread the gills to the hook.

The bite is a train wreck

Make sure you can get off your anchor line quick. A peeler can strip a reel in a very short time, hence the name. If the good thing happens and you can't get control quickly, fire up the kicker, let the anchor go and go for a Columbia River sleigh ride.

Yeeeee hhaaaaa!

[NAUTI-NOTIONS]

As your doing your half hitches up the body try to stay on the shadow line that will prevent your bait from rolling and looking unnatural.
I've had to go as high as 48 oz. to keep the bait still. really depends on the size of shad you catch. i like the smaller guys

[TheRogue]

Another couple of suggestions...

1. Remove the gill plates.

2. Remove all fins except enough of the tail to keep the half-hitches in place.

This cuts down on the drag, plus gets some of that oily blood flowing!!

[kevray]

If you don't want to go to the real heavy wts. Your 24 oz. will be plenty. Fish fillets not whole and anchor closer to the Washington side in what we call the eddy. The current is not nearly as strong, however, you will have to deal with a wandering boat. :grin:

I was able to bring to the boat 2 monsters using 20 oz. with single shad fillet on 8/0 Mustads. Last Sun.

Good Luck :cheers:

[ 05-30-2002, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: kevray ]

[powerstrokincowboy]

Thanks for all of the posts.

Pilar,

I am a little confused about the rig you described. First, what do you mean by 36# nylon cord? Is it just basic cord or something specific for fishing? Can I pick this up at a good tackle shop? (I go to Sportco in Fife, WA -- they usually have everything including the hooks) For leader, I usually use 100 to 130 lb braided sturgeon leader. Is this the same stuff?

This is how I interpret the rig, from my rod down:
1) Tie my main line (80 lb power pro) to a 200 lb barrell swivel.
2) Tie 7' of nylon cord (doubled up to 3.5', or 7' total length but doubled?) to the swivel.
3) Slide another barrel swivel up the nylon cord bumper to use as a weight slider.
4) Tie the end of the nylon bumper to another 200 lb barrel swivel.
5) Use the nylon cord as the leader on an 11/0 hook. (you said "each hook", do you use 1 or 2 on each rig?) Push the hook in the top of the head and sticking out of the mouth (pointing up?), and then use 1/2 hitches down the shad.
6) Tie the nylon cord leader to the barrel swivel on the end of the bumper.
7) Put the weight on the slider swivel (do I use any drop line, or clip the weight right to it?).
8) Use the "dog" (cool idea) to let out the rig.

I think that I understand, but I may be wrong, especially about the bumper set up. Is the purpose of the bumper is to have a length of line for the weight to slide up and down? And do I want 6' of leader from the bumper to the shad after it is 1/2 hitched, or start with 6' of leader to ensure enough line for the 1/2 hitches.

Thanks again, and let me know if I am way off on this rig. I am heading down today to buy the supplies.

[Pilar]

The cord I am talking about is at GI Joes. It is a plain nylon twist. The right cord will say 36# on the label. The only reason I prefer that stuff is because it is strong, cheap and readily available. It's in the boating supplies by the anchor line. You could use other types of cord but look for abrasion resistance as a key feature.

You've got it all right on. I clip the weight right to the swivel with a lightweight crosslock, this is an interlocking clip. The bottom swivel is just looped on the doubled line. No need to tie another knot. Just push the doubled end of the bumper through the swivel eye and then the the swivel through the loop.

The bumper is for the weight slider. I have seen people use a short dropper line for the lead but that looks like a snaggy rig to me.

Just one hook and point up. Once you push it in go until the eye of the hook is on the back of the head. Let the hook hang out of the mouth.

The 6' leader will easily tie a big female shad. The 1/2 hitches use a lot of leader. Once it is rigged tie the leader to the bottom end of your bumper (slider rig) and leave only 6" or so between swivel and the tail of the bait. BTW the small male shad work the best, it takes less weight.

The 'quivering' shad is the best. Fish for bait and then for peelers. Once it is rigged, stab the bait in several places along the backbone to release the blood that attracts the peelers.

I said hooks because you have only a chance at landing your first peeler. Use one hook at a time but bring spare gear. The river is no place to waste a bunch of time making more gear. So I rig two po's and have spare rigs to boot. If I lose it on a farmed fish I can deploy the second rig without alot of dinking around. I can mess with gear while I wait for that killer takedown.

Have fun!

[ 05-31-2002, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

[powerstrokincowboy]

Thanks so much Pilar!

This board has been an invaluable source of information for me. I just hope to learn enough to contribute here as well.

I will get several setups ready on Saturday so we can get 'em on Sunday!

We plan to bring my brother's wife and my girlfriend along, so hopefully we will get into the peelers and show them a good time (or look like rookie idiots when we lose 'em all).

Thanks again, and hopefully I can buy you a beer sometime! And that goes for all of the others that have helped me out on my other posts.
:cheers:

[Pilar]

Hey Cowboy, be careful anchoring up there, it can get pretty hairy in the heavy current.

Oh and think long and hard before you do this. It is very habit forming. I've still not recovered and hope I never will.

Take pictures man and have a ball!

[chuckee]

Are there any good places for oversize that the current is not traveling at 25 mph, i tried using shad gills at washougal today with no luck, maybe i was fishing in a bad spot, can anyone suggest something close to the washougal ramp?

[powerstrokincowboy]

Pilar,

When we put in at the fishery, where do we head for shad? From the posts I have read, we plan to use a swivel as a weight slider with about a 12" drop line to the lead, and the Dick Nite several feet back from that. Then try different length drop lines and different areas until we get into shad. Does that sound correct?

And is the current alot faster than the water in the channel next to the wall at Rooster Rock?

[bait boy]

Chuckee,

the spot that I always saw overized hooked up was by the steamboat landing docks fish just far enough so the sturgeon fishers can't reach you and downstream about 50yards.

It always seems to be a late afternoon bite up there. I have sat all day fishing from the docks and in the last hour of light I hooked my fish.

goood luck and I hope that helped