River Etiquette

[Yellow North River]

Here we go again! I was on the Willimate Friday night enjoying the evening sitting on the inside of a small Hogline across from the mouth of the Clackamas, I here a loud Jet Boat coming down river at Full Throttle heading straight for me, I think is this guy going to hit me or try to slide thru the inside of me (about 20ft to shore) at that speed, well he comes to the inside of me about 3ft from me going at least 30mph, I was in shock the boat beside me raises his hand to show the guy that he is NUMBER ONE in his book. This sets this guy OFF he spins around and comes flying out of the front of his boat screaming that we are all F.....g A..holes on and on..............more than I can post here. The real kicker here is he had a small child in his boat and there were a few boats out there with kids in them. In closing I want to thank Mr. Wiggle for the Vocabulary and River driving lesson.

[SLEDDER]

What an A**H**E!!! :mad:

[Drachir]

I see the same thing down near Cedar Oaks. We like to anchor close to the island, and idiots run up next to shore there all the time, 10' off our side. We are in a Drift Boat, so not real big,and yet these yayhoos do this, AARRGGHHH!!!! :mad: I would never do that to anyone, I consider myself very courteous. :smile:

[TundraIII]

Yes folks, another report of the type of behavior you'll find in the Milwaukie and O.C. area. The concentration of idiots on this stretch of water is truly amazing. You almost need a constant police presence around this stretch. That guy should have been ticketed for reckless endangerment.

[oregonwrestler]

I know what ya mean. A week or so ago I was out fishing in a drift boat on a fairly narrow portion of a river. A guy comes flying through in a jet boat right through the area I was fishing. I was ticked off and shouted at the guy to no avail. It put me and my buddy in danger for sure because if we weren't anchored off near the bank, they guy could have easily nailed us as he came around the corner....

[Tanner]

I was anchored in the same spot all day Saturday, directly across from the blacktop at Dahl Beach.

Did anyone happen to see the 50 - 60 foot Carver Yacht that weaved his way through the thousand boats at OC. Definitely more dollars than sense. We also got the pleasure of spending most of the day watching people practice their anchoring techniques, mostly on top of our prawn spinners :mad:
The other thing that amazed me was a guy with his wife and kids in a brand new North River. First he tried anchoring in between me and the boat next to me (about an 8 foot wide slot :rolleyes: ). He finally pulled anchor and reset on the other side of the boat next to me. A few times boats went by real close and he proceeded to yell and cuss and flip them off. After a while I noticed he was going full throttle right by several boats (including 10 feet off the starboard side of mine and not thinking a thing of it.
Some people really, truly amaze me. Overall, it was quite an entertaining afternoon but I think I am ready for some nice peaceful trout fishing. The Oregon City Shad Crowd is really starting to get to me. The scary thing is that is just beginning. :rolleyes:

[drift boat]

It will be that way come June 1st up on the Sky for the opener. :hoboy: :hoboy:

[Bait O' Eggs]

I was part of the crowd in the OC area on Saturday. I set anchor at 3:30 AM :shocked: :shocked: So I could get the spot I wanted, and I was beat by 5 minutes and had to settle for along side the spot I wanted. :depressed:

At 9am I moved to another spot and set anchor, A little later a doughball comes up the river and pulls up along side me and starts off with "%@)*() @&)*#)( *@)#*$ you guys are not anchored properly, you need to get closer to the bank". I look over at the bank and I can almost jump to the bank from my boat and not get wet. I ignore him and he continues with the "*#(*$) #)(#)_#!" towards us. Finally he decides I am not going to pull my anchor and move a 1/2 boat width because he wants me to. He drops anchor and starts off by tossing spinner over our bobbers. When he tangles us up, he tells us to get those /*-#(% bobbers out of his hole and start spinner fishing :shocked: :shocked: After tangling us several times he proceeds to tell us "he has been fishing this hole with spinners longer we have been fishing and we are to stop using bobbers in his way and to start spinner fishing". I had Gus Orviston with me and I thought for a minute he was going to swim over to his boat and rearrange his anatomy. :shocked: Tempers were really starting to flair.

After a few more minutes of this A*****e telling us what to do I just pulled anchor and left for home. Wasnt worth it any more.

Sunday I decide to float the Clack in the Driftboat. I was really impressed that every boat we saw and or met was polite and nice to us. I even had grumpy looking Terry Mulkey come down the river at full speed, slow and come by us at a very slow pace and then step back up on plane and go on his way. It took him all of about 10 - 15 seconds to be courteous and I was impressed. I guess I have been fishing in OC this spring for too long when I think being courteous is an out of the way behavior.

Looking forward to getting on some other water, OC is getting on my nerves.

[hawgcatcher]

These jerks keep on coming. I have been around the Oregon City area since I was a kid and every year we get a new bunch of idiots. I have watched them sit in a hog line and swig beer all day and get louder and louder. The cans go overboard and drift downriver. Then they pull anchor and catch everyone up or drift sideways into the boats.

It seems as there are more in recent years. They seem to think that having a boat gives them the right to the whole river, wide open. The unfortunate thing is that law enforcement funding is short, so we don't have the coverage we need. When I was younger, I would challange these idiots but now with all the guns out there, I just yell.

Gather them all up, place them on a plane and let them help in Afganistan. Let them get some of that go power used up in defense of our Country.

:hoboy:

[24 on/ 48 off]

830.305 Unsafe operation. A person commits the crime of unsafe operation of a boat if the person operates a boat in a manner that endangers or would be likely to endanger any person or property. [Formerly 488.099]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Class "A' violation. $285.00

830.315 Reckless operation; speed. (1) A person commits the crime of reckless operation of a boat who operates a boat carelessly and heedlessly in willful or wanton disregard of the rights, safety or property of others.

(2) No person shall operate any boat at a rate of speed greater than will permit that person in the exercise of reasonable care to bring the boat to a stop within the assured clear distance ahead.

(3) Nothing in ORS 830.005, 830.015 to 830.050, 830.175, 830.210 to 830.420 and 830.475 to 830.490 is intended to prevent the operator of a boat actually competing in an event which is authorized as provided in ORS 830.375 from attempting to attain high speeds on a marked racing course. [Formerly 488.100]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Class "A" misdemeanor. Up to 1 year in jail and/or a $5,000 fine.

Get a good look at the operator so you can identify him later to a police officer and be prepared to grin wildly at him in court as the judge throws the book at him.

--spud-- :smile:

[24 on/ 48 off]

Here are a few examples:

http://www.boatoregon.com/Laws/Regs1-3.html

--spud-- :smile:

[FallRiverGuy]

There is also:

http://www.boatoregon.com/JavaChores/TipPage.htm

[fish_on]

I started the year out going slow and watching my wake close when I went by other boats. After being tossed around by the guys that like to run 2' from you at full throttle I have become not so nice. I still idle thought the crowded areas and hog lines, and give all anchored boats a wide berth. I was under the impression that you are responsible for your wake and any damage it causes. The ones I get bent out of shape about are the yachts that throw a 8' swell and have no disregard for smaller boats. I am taking a few weeks off the fishing too much river rage building, I have great respect for the guides that can put up with it for a living.

[Small Fry]

I always wondered why every time I camp near the water the and leave my boat anchered in shallow water the idiots on jet ski's have to play near by.
I have tried being nice, I've tried being an a__hole, they just don't get it.
I respect others and their safety while boating.
I,m glad to see most of the Ifish folks feel the same way. When I'm on the water I'm not in a hurry. Maybe we need to start writing down numbers and talking to the folks in blue/green/ gray. Now that I own a digital camera maybe a photo or two will help.

I used to own a wrist rocket, But I think the wife buried it the last camping trip.

[ 05-20-2002, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: Small Fry ]

[ssteelheadsteve]

You can go by me as fast as you want as long as you don't hit me.I would rather get buzzed than have to deal with the halfwits at half throttle throwing a bigger wake.Thats why when you see me my boat will be on plane and leaving you to your business as soon as I can.If you in a power boat I say get it up and get gone.

[SouthCoastStu]

After reading this post I remember why I don't fish OC. I have to save up my allotment of tolerance for a** holes for fall fishing on T-bay :smile:

[Clackman]

here here steve i second

[SandySteel]

Steve and Clackman
I don't understand why you think it is an all or nothing thing. While I think that half throttle is clearly not good it is still possible to slip by your fellow boaters at trolling pace which is what I attempt to do when I am running a power boat. This will throw little or no wake and only takes a few more seconds of time and can mean a lot lower blood pressures for all. I will agree that if you are going to go by quicker that you should do it on plane but next time try trolling speed. It's amazing how well it works.

Eric

[crabbait]

Sandy - I think you guys are talking about two different things. The last time I was on the Willamette on a sunny Saturday, if you elected to go by anchored/trolling boats at trolling speed you would spend the day at trolling speed.

I come off plane to trolling speed for very small boats, overloaded boats and boats that obviously need extra consideration like the rowing skulls. Fishermen anchored or trolling I give as wide a berth as possible and continue at my least wake generating speed above trolling speed which is on plane.

My 18' sled does not leave much wake at this speed and it is far better than the wake left by "considerate" folks plowing along in their Bayliners.

I expect some wakes when anchored and trolling and appreciate when boaters just give me a little room.

Just like anywhere else, boaters need to have the right boat for the conditions. Operating a very small boat or any boat with not enough freeboard on a busy river like the Willamette on any sunny weekend is asking for trouble.

[DK]

start reporting them,

[Fish4Fun]

Sounds just like the Cowlitz at Blue Creek every weekend in the Winter.

[Straydog]

These most recent posts clearly illustrate a large part of the problem and something that frustrates the snot out of me when I am operating my sled.

Some guys say you are a "halfwit" if slow down and, like myself, would prefer you keep on trucking and get by me.

There are also a couple of variables that I don't see being considered and that is the direction the boat is traveling in relation to river flow.

If I am traveling downstream, slowing to troll speed is in the best interest of the other boaters and bankies in the area.

If I am traveling upstream, it matters not how slow I go, there WILL be a wake. It is basic physics.. too opposing forces ya know.

The problem lies in the inconsistancy of the water using public. I have been cussed and flipped off for going on plane and I have been cussed and flipped off for going by too slow.

I am Sooooo confused!!!

I sometimes wonder if too many people aren't just looking for a reason to get ****** off at his fellow man. :rolleyes:

BTW, before you get excited about grinning at someone in court as they get the book thrown at them. consider how many times you have heard of anyone actually getting fined. Also, read those statutes again and realize how most of them are judgement calls and will result in one's word against another if there are not strong witnesses.

On the other hand, those that are truely irresponsible need to be turned in.

I am just glad I live down in God's land where fewer folks mean fewer conflicts although the rafters will soon be out in force and the sled will be put up for most of the summer. :depressed:

Of course, most of you don't have to contend with the tour boats...... greyhound buses of the Rogue, up to forty some people, three 350 Chevies with Berkley pumps. The Feds allow them 19 trips a day below Grants Pass..... if you are spending a day on the river, that is 38 times these river hogs roar by, occaisionly spinning a 360 just to make things more livley.... :mad: graemlins/berry.gif :mad:

[Chukrchaser]

As I read, I am more convinced than ever that there will be one less boat for every one to worry about -- Mine!

It appears that unless you know the secret codes, there is always some "rude infraction" of the "brotherhood of river fishers". It would seem, too, that as for moving on the river -- again -- Darned if you do -- darned if you don't -- Why not invent another "code" that says you anchor on the hour, move on the half hour and flip off everybody within 50 yds on the quarter hour?

I have been a boat owner in the past, have dealt with some of the issues you mention and came to the adult minded decision that it was not worth the blood pressure increase --

Chuck

[Smj]

What Straydog said about upstream/downstream travel.

I may have been one of the jerks the Meldrum to garbage hole salmon fishers are speaking of a time or two. BUT, do any of you guys ever think that maybe, just maybe you ought to leave a bit of river for a boat to travel through that's wider than ten feet? I have a hard time understanding why so many people would crowd into such a narrow place in the river, and then complain about the obvious problems that causes, when many fish were being caught other places.

My 2 cents

Smj

[metalhead madness]

Straydog is right. down river slow to trolling speed up river on plane. Heading upriver @ trolling speed will produce a large and more annoying wake longer. But just enough speed to be on step. once you're on plane that is fast enough.

[Red]

I can tell you what will fix the problem, but it will take constant enforcement to make it work. This problem will go away if people wouldn't anchor in the channel. If there was a lane in the middle of the river for people to pass through at planing speed, both travelers and those at anchor would win. We must remember that the river is open to everyone, not just fishers.

[rags]

Not having a lane to pass through is a problem now at OC. With all the Shad fishermen anchored all over the river where do you go? I always go slow with my sled no matter if I am going up or down river when passing anchored boats. Even though a bigger wake is created going up river the gesture of going slow seems to matter most. Most of these inexperienced fisherman don't understand the concept of "on plane" creating less wake. To fish the OC area now you need thick skin and a big smile.

[Hogmaster]

Yep, OC is crowded allright. Lots and lots of shadders. This stretch of river is about a mile long. It is not so long that people can't use a bit of courtesy and take it a bit slower, especially downstream! It is a free river, and the 35' Carvers and the wakeboarders can't be told not to pass. We have to live with a certain amount of idiocracy in crowded palces for sure...

To the point of pushing water on upstream movement, I noticed an interesting phenomenum recently. When a real jerk goes by too close, even in a sled, and thinks he/she is putting out little wake, the PERIOD between wakes is much faster (sorta like the ocean swells). This faster period causes more violent bouncing in the boat (and sometimes water in the back of my sled) than a larger "rolling" wake from a slower moving boat.

Don't get me wrong, a sled on plane across the river is no problem. It is the guy who thinks he is doing everyone a favor by planing by at a close distance. It is also intimidating to people because they don't know if you actually see them or maybe you are under the influence or just crazy. Just slow down if there is no lane! 5 miutes to get by the anchored boats won't kill you or ruin your outing! If you are out that late that everyone is anchored it isn't as though you "need" to hurry through to get to the hot spot. Think about it, people are usually moving because they are searching for better fishing than they just experienced. I bet they don't "know" the hot spot is where they are headed. They are in too much of a hurry to get there!

Now on the other hand, the big boats putting out "max wake thrust" should have to sit in a 12' boat in OC in late May for a day! That tends to give them the understanding (in fact probably most of us) as to the importance to push water in a way it doesn't break, even if it does roll.

On the Clack I admit I have gone by boats fairly close while at speed. Not much choice in many instances. To slow down may mean loss of control or big wakes. I think many people get upset because they don't want anybody else on "their" stretch of river. I feel that way too when I am working a stretch and a sled comes powering up through the run. But I don't flip them off or suggest they did something wrong unless they are unsafe or just plain rude. Sometimes going inside is the best thing for the other boat.

I personally alsways ask myself two questions in these situations, and in this order:
1) What is the safe path to take?
2) What will cause the other fisherman the least disturbance as I pass by?

If everyone understood that maybe blood pressures would stay below boiling...

[Chris Nordling]

Something else to consder is the Willamette is much narrower than the Columbia, there is simply no distance to have the wakes mellow out. It also seems that everyone must go very, very fast.
Like it has been stated, this area is about a mile long. How long can it take from one point to the other ? Must you use you great big motor to move a few hundred yards ? Most seem to do ok with their trolling motors, remember it's only a mile, maybe two at the max. What's an extra few minutes to be courteous ?

The best examples of courtesy usually comes form the guides :shocked: Probably the most courteous being : Julie, Terry, David, Steve and Donnie, and a few others I see.

I know it's been said before, but there really is nowhere for these people to learn how and where to drive their boats. No drivers ed, no driving test, nothing to show that some even have a clue. I know boater safety will help, but can it help someone how to anchor, and where to for that matter ?

There will always be an obnoxious person or two on the river. Whether it's OC or T bay or the Columbia, someone is going to do something strange. We are too diverse as fisherman and people as a whole for there not to be some "odd ducks" out there, and chances are good , with a population such as ours, they might just be next to you on the river. There is only a few solutions to a problem none of us can control directly. One of which is :

Patience.

The other :

The ability to move and re-set to have an afternoon of the kind of fishing you want, peaceful.
If you're looking for the latter, I suggest you fish OC at O dark twenty, or the last two hours of the day ! :smile:

Good luck out there, and beware of the shadders.

Chris

[hookem]

Fishing in the o.c. area this time of year is like walking out of ball game or a consert to the parking lot. People, people everywhere. It's a special situation that you have to put up with. There is no other way, to many people in a small area. every time I go out there (about 4 times a week) I see the same thing. People everywhere making a mess of things.
This one that happened to me on sunday. A man and woman in a 12' alum runnabout try to anchor next to me. OK so they run up past me a drop there anchor, but ofcourse if dosen't hold and they drift past me. At last the anchor catchs about 25' below me! Now what am i going to do yell at them? No this is O.C. just live with it or move to a new river!

[Chris Nordling]

Stlhdr1-

You've got mail :grin:

And no, that clown was not me...........

Chris :cool

[FM2]

River etiquette also applies to boaters when folks are bank fishing.

I own a DB, have owned a jet boat and a 30 footer. I have always given the bankies the respect not to blow through their water or fish close to them so as to disturb their limited space.

Today I went with a couple of friends on the Clack for a couple of hours of bank fishing before work. We had a nice stretch of water to ourselves with an occasional boat going by, and seeing us, gave plenty of room. I decided to move up to the head of the hole and this yo-yo in a Fishrite sled comes racing up the river and beaches across from me. No problem at this point and they obviously see me on the bank. These two goones get back in their boat and motor right over to where I'm at :mad: and throw out their divers and start fishing with their boat right over my drift :mad: :mad: I considered many things to let them know how ticked I was but I could tell these goofballs could care less I was there :mad: :mad: I made a couple more casts then just packed up knowing I'm not going to stoop to their level and start a confrontation. Shortly after I left they hooked a fish and all I could think was "HOPE IT HAS TO MANY FINS" which to my pleasure did.....hehehehe!

The moral of the story is boaters need to give the bankies room. Just because a person owns a boat doesn't mean they own a section of river. The Clack is a big river, why did these dorkisoids have to pull in right next to me!! :whazzup: :rolleyes: :mad:

[ 05-21-2002, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: FM2 ]

[Torchman]

Straydog, I agree TOTALLY!!!!
I KNOW that my boat throws less wake on plane.... But 90% of the folks that see a boat with stripes ripping by at 30+ kts COMPLAIN. I had a guide on the Chehalis confront me a few weeks ago...(after I had "plowed" past him twice...) "You know, it is better if you just stay on plane".....But, I get nasty grams if I DO!!! I even told my crew...(Before the "talk"..) that we would do LESS by truckin' by at full tilt....
The answer?? All people will never be happy!!! So, since I dont have to do boardings, I'm gonna plow, wave, and ask about the bite....

[rags]

Stlhdr1,
The only guide I know that runs a Willie sled black and red is Steve Koller.

[Small Fry]

I agree with FM2 just because we own boats dose not mean we own the river. Give the folks on the bank a chance.

That was me not to long ago.

[Dan Christopher]

(oregon city) boy every year you here the same thing.
i say if the hog liners cross the hole river you get whats coming to you.
some want you to go slow some want fast so i say do what you want done to you and to heck with what others say.
i dont do the oregon city thing anymore this time of year ,there is to many drunk s.o.b's out there that "have been fishing this area forever" and own the river.
if some one yells at my actions i just keep on fishing..never leave or they win and will bitck at the next guy to.but it is no fun to fish where this kind of thing happens.if you take the kids get them away from the croweds and have a good time.i guees we will talk more about this next year.

[stlhdr1]

Same thing happened to me last week on the Clackamas... It was my first time on the Clack so my etiquette was at its best... But a local guide (name not known) who was running a 20-21ft willie that was burgendy color with 4 clients decides to run right over my lines about 20ft from me as I was boondogging the stretch right below Carver. There's lots of river there and plenty of depth to run up the back side of the drift but as a typical JEALOUS AHOLE after seeing up land 2 steelhead in that drift he just couldn't help himself... I'm sorry if he was having a bad day but it wasn't because of me..

By the way does anyone know who that CLOWN is?
Keith :grin: