how to fight back against commercial fishing

[boater]

here are a few idea`s we could do to put a dent in commercial fishing

1. dont buy anything from a store that caters to sport and commercial fisherman. only a sportsman outlet.

2. have floatilla`s that target herring when they are in the ports and catch them off the docks, no more buying herring.

3. develop ways for the sportsman to catch sardines and have 1/2 of the 40 plus tons turned over to sportsman.

4. any more ideas ?

just my useless 2 cents worth.

[ 04-29-2002, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: boater ]

[AngleThis]

I can think of many, most of which would not be appreciated on this board by some.

[dawhunt]

A couple bales of hay or straw upstream from the nets.OOPS !!! SORRY :smile: :smile:
Bob

[Perfect Drift]

The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) is accepting applications until May 15 for $200,000 in grant money available for qualifying volunteer projects across the state. The funds are made available through the Volunteer Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Enhancement Program, known as the Co-op Program, and are available for fish and wildlife beneficial projects undertaken by volunteer individuals and organization between July 1, 2002 and June 30, 2003. Full story

[Brine]

Buy them out. .

[jcw]

Boater has the right idea. Vote with your wallet. Also vote at the polling place and pick your candidates carefully (think Teamsters or AARP members). We could certainly have an effect.

[luguando]

Organize. I don't know how many sport fisherman there are but I'm sure we out number the commercial interests by a HUGE margin. Since most of us are generally apathetic, we need to either vote for a politician that is for the sport fisherman or hire some lobbyists that will bulldog their way in to influential committees in Olympia, Salem, and the fishery departments..... just like they do. How else can such a small minority of those who fish our waters get such a large percentage of the runs?

I do like the idea of a flotilla or two. It would definitely bring out the network helicopters and bring some attention to these issues.

[GoFish]

I'd like to see the different fishing groups come together in some way that could pool their number of their members. Northwest Steelheaders, Tillamook Anglers, Friends of the Cowlitz, Northwest Sportfishing Industry Association, Oregon Trout, etc. As things stand now, the different organizations are generally working toward the same ends (well, maybe not Oregon Trout) but there seems to be a lot of duplication of effort. Which reminds me...Are YOU a member of one of these groups yet?

I keep hoping that some fishaholic public relations genius will emerge to mount an effective PR campaign on behalf of sportfishing.

What??? No dear, I AM awake!!! Still dreaming though you say?

[ 04-30-2002, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: gofish ]

[GoFish]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, anybody who hasn't seen the PBS documentary called "Empty Oceans, Empty Nets" still isn't as worried as they should be.

[BUGLEMAN]

You guys need to zero in on one of the main problems. We have the fox guarding the hen house. Lobby all you want. Write all the letters you will. It won't do much good. How about having a wildlife commision that isn't 100% sympathetic to the commercial fishing industry. If the members aren't now commercial fishermen they used to be or are very sympathetic. That is why they are on the commission. There needs to be laws to reflect our needs and desires to the fish commision and in turn management will be more sportsmen friendly.

[Master Mariner]

I just cant believe what I am reading...you guys are a bunch of selfish brats...I suppose you are going to want to sell the fish you catch to help recoup the cost of gas and tackle?

This is really disapointing to read...guys out for fun want all the fish for themselves...Mabey you should try feeding your family on the yearly income of a commercial fisherman.

[Keta]

Oregon hunters and fishermen needs a umbrella organization like the AOC to fight for our rights.

Alaska Outdoor Council (http://www.alaskaoutdoorcouncil.org/)

They have a voice in Alaska politics.

[husker]

master mariner:

maybe if the way of fishing u chosse was a little more fish selective I might agree with your opinion...but when the local sport fishers get the shaft and commercial gets the benefit no one will agree.....no nets in the columbia period.....choose another method

[Pilar]

Master Mariner .... Yeah ok. I'll bite ... your red herring. Show me one commercial gillnetter that has a sole source of income related to fishing.

And while you're at your 'other' job, reflect on the taxes you write off against your uneconomical avocation. Boat upkeep, fuel, equipment, nets .... etc, etc. I'm sure you couldn't live without that. It's surely worth more as a tax shelter than an income.

Hard to write off much against a dip net and a pair of sneakers used to dip fish out of a fish ladder. What is your 'day' job? Lawyer? Lobbyist for commercial fishing?

What you seem to miss here is that we (Ifishers and sport fishers) don't really hate Gillnetters. We hate the method and the damage you do to wild fish stocks. We love you man .. but we disapprove of your methods.

Oh and while you're at it. Look around the next time you are out in your boat. Look at the rotting pilings along the waters edge, remnants of canneries. Remember the guys who did make a living at Gillnetting, the canneries that were built. The runs of fish harvested to extinction back in the bad old days of the last century. Yeah, think about that.

Proud tradition huh?

[dawhunt]

Maybe if they didn't own so many boats like 5-6
like some of them do thay could make a living!!,They told me so themselves.I was also told by more then a few they don't make there living on the columbia they make there living in Alaska fishing !!,They also have told me they just fish for EXCESS FISH !!in the columbia.Now maybe they don't all own more then 1 boat and maybe they don't ALL fish in Alaska but a lot of them do.And I haven't heard one sports fisherman yet ask for larger limits just for the right to fish for a limit. When was the last time we got an extension to catch our limits ??
Answer NEVER,when our season ended it ended whether you caught one or not, How many EXTENSION'S DO THEY GET EVERY YEAR ????Why don't they follow the same laws as we have do if you don't get your fish in the time allowed TOUGH LUCK YOUR OUT !!!.What good would it do if they were removed from the columbia river
just look at florida and texas and I belive Calif. where they were banned,I'll tell you what there sport fishery has tripled what it was by money being put back into the economy by tourists and sport fisherman, What damage do they do look At what happened in the New England states
They netted all the fish and now there loseing their boats and homes whose fault was that ??Now just look at the money the sportsman puts back into the economy.What do they do they collect !! I don't believe that the government should buy them out either no ones going to buy out all the sporting goods stores or motels or charters and the resturants that make there liveing off the sportsman or the tourist's that come out to catch a couple fish and spend $$$$ if we lose our fishing there out of luck and just lose everything they've worked for all there live's. Master Mariner you need to look before you leap.GILLNETING should NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE COLUMBIA RIVER PERIOD !!There's nothing can be done about the indians netting YET but if all the sportsman would just once stick together we could get the rest out of the river.I wonder how many of the netters really have other jobs like lawyer's or doctor's or millworkers or ?? to support there families because they themselves told they can't make a living off the columbia !!Its nothing but money and they got the canniers and some bought out lawmakers on there side with big money to back them. Pliar you are right on but I don't love them just deal with them because I have to. Bob :mad:

[ 05-01-2002, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: dawhunt ]

[TundraIII]

Amen Pilar, If gillnetters dont make any money ****** the waterways then what is the motivation? I've never heard anyone brag that they came from a long line of gillnetting family tradition. graemlins/berry.gif If it's for the tax shelter then buy them out and let them start
lawn care businesses.

[DanS]

[ 05-01-2002, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]

[DanS]

try feeding your family on the yearly income of a commercial fisherman <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Try getting a new job. :rolleyes:

[GutZ]

Master Mariner and your ilk;
Glad to see you stick your head up here so it could get pounded back into the ground where it belongs. What a disservice gilnetters do to the People of the Northwest. Without your failing industry taking Springers (etc) millions of dollars would be flowing into the economy, up and down both sides of the River. I look forward to the ultimate failure of your industry. I would support any measure to get the nets out of the water, be it buy back, or just your economic failure. If you can't make it as a commercial gilnetter, get a real job.

[ 05-01-2002, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: Fishguts ]

[garyk]

Around 1990 or '92 there was a huge outcry about the Oriental fleets gillnetting the oceans, and taking (stealing) our salmon. Remember the net marks you used to find on the Tillamook fish that escaped those 'walls of death'?

Sportsmen and environmental groups joined to make a big noise.

We rallied and marched on the Japanese trade consulate in Portland. Politicians attended. I've got a picture of Sen. Packwood standing next to me as I hold my 'Japan - A Pirate Nation' sign.

Bottom line is, it did make a difference. Various laws were enforced and the foreign gillnet fleets were pushed beyond 200 miles or forced to obey the various fishery agreements.

Now, the real irony is that a decade later while the pacific is a little safer the gillnets are still killing indescriminately in the Columbia by what amounts to largely hobby fisherman.

[Pitch Pocket]

The government should not bail them out. Did they bail out the forest products workers when they shut down the forests? Hell no. Send em packing. The method is outdated for a largely urban resource.

How many fisherman stay out of the water and keep their money in their pockets when the nets are in? I know I'm not very motivated to grind out a day when the walls of death are scouring the waters.

It's a government give-away plain and simple. The gillnetters laugh all the way to the bank while the community services and retail establishments wait for the bone they are tossed. The most powerful lobbies rule this government.

[crabbait]

MM - Took my 15yr old nephew out Sunday for his first salmon. I wish you could have seen the look on his face when we netted that 18lb fish. And you call us selfish brats while you **** a resource for minimal commercial gain that thousands of people would spend millions of dollars to harvest a small percentage of recreationaly?

Want to see selfish? Look in the mirror.

If you cared at all for the resource, for the local economy, or for your neighbors, you would drain that gill net boat of its petrochemicals, tow it out to sea and turn it into a reef.

There are other ways to make money with your seamanship and experience.

[Screaminreelron]

My dad gillnetted 35 yrs ago and those guys back then did it not so much to make money but to get out of the house. Sportsman are the wimpiest, most passive money spenders around :mad: When and if we ever get pi_ _ed off enough, then maybe we'll organize. I am not holding my breath though.Look at the springer fishin for example. We pay for the hatcherys, the commerical and natives get the bounty, and the States go, oops, need to stop that springer fishin. We go....OK, i guess :mad:

[finclipped]

MM, Cmon,,,,Please.....show me a commercial fisherman relying on Columbia Gillnetted Fish for survival. 50 cents a pound for Silvers? Only 100 fish per boat on Springers? You couldn't afford to rent a place to put your cardboard box.

The only successful commercial fisherman are fishing in Alaska, and consider the Columbia nothing more than "recreational" gillnetting to pass the time. No sympathy from me.

[ 05-01-2002, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: finclipped ]

[BUGLEMAN]

Master Mariner! Who represents the sportsmens desires on the ODFW Commision? Who pays for the vast majority of management and propagation in our rivers? Who gets unjust enrichment from these resources?

Who is selfish?

[Master Mariner]

Hmmm... well, it looks like I struck a raw nerve.

Truly, I dont have any beef with sport anglers... There could be enough fish for all groups to make a living and have fun...

Lots of flawed arguments though... I'll just attribute that to being uninformed about gillnetting. For example, the high seas driftnets is a completely different topic and isnt even comparable to gillnetting...I know this because I was in the CG and was involved with the enforcement of that fishery for several years...

I guess in the end, I think that everyone should have access to the fishery...not just sport and not just commercial... but both!!

Cant we just all get along...lol...

[husker]

MM--as long as u fish with nets strecthed accross the columbia where i want to fish.....i say......not no but f*** no!!!!as long as we the sport fishers take a back seat to poeple who **** the seas.....not no but f*** no

[Paddlefish]

Please go back and review GOFISH's note about empty oceans.

Between the gill / tangle netters, open ocean netters, seiners, and trollers, and 100,000 Kwikfishers and Spin-n-gloers, we have more than enough technology to catch every salmon in the ocean. :depressed:

And that doesn't even take into consideration the ones who probably kill even more salmon: those who turn Pacific rain forests into pulp plantations or the dam-building electricity marketers or the brother-in-law spraying Roundup on his rural back yard, which was once the bank of a coho spawning creek.

Sounds like we're arguing over who gets to kill the last salmon. :depressed:

Based on my results / effort / success rate, my family doesn't qualify as fish-eaters. ("Hey, that was the year that Dad caught a salmon!!) :blush: Every time I kill one, however, I can't help wondering whether I'm doing the right thing.

I respect and truly love the gillnetters' tradition (and especially the old Columbia River gillnet boats!)

Times change, however, and perhaps it's time for other methods -- even selective (fish ladder sorting) fisheries that can target or ignore selected fish, even if the revenue ends up in the same pockets. My previous employer's entire company disappeared -- along with my job. Times changed. Buggy whips, coal furnaces and braided silk fishing lines evolve over time. Move on. And haven't sport fishing limits gradually diminished over the decades? Is this perhaps a canary in the coal mine?

And (unfortunately) dragging still another party into the fray, I'm fond of recalling the old Indian / Native American (take your pick) concept of not owning the land / resource, but just borrowing it temporarily from our heirs.

It's not our job to use it up, but to pass it on, at least as healthy as we found it.

Gillnetters and sport fishermen are much more alike than they care to admit: dependent on the salmon runs and desiring to maintain the old traditions. Rather than fighting over a diminishing resource, we should all be working toward safeguarding and expanding it, even if that means making temporary sacrifices for the good of the salmon runs of the future. graemlins/idea.gif

[Trick]

Since we keep bringing up the PBS show Empty Oceans/Empty Nets, I'd like to draw attention to how they pointed out the fact that Alaska stocks were in steep decline due to overharvest. Measures were put into effect to limit the amount of permits allowed in this fishery. The result was a rebound in fish populations and a sustainable harvest has been maintained.

Granted, Alaska has a small population per square mile and still has pristine watershed conditions. We have damaged ours, nobody would disagree with that. The Northwest is an attractive place to live and many are discovering this daily. Our impact on the land will continue with this flow of people and the developement that always follows.

We have the ability to wipe out most species (except rats and cockroaches) and salmon being one of them. I want to believe that most of us sporties want to do the right thing and take care of our native runs. I don't believe the commercial and indian interests care as much. If the indian netters gave a crap then they would clip their hatchery fish. It's obvious to me that greed does drive all groups, but it's the greed for money that drives commercial interests. When money is involved it brings out the worse.

I don't have issue with the commercial industry as a whole, I just don't believe they should be in freshwater or at the very least develop fair allocations and methods for better controls on intercepting protected species.

[Perfect Drift]

I fully enjoy reading and fitting pieces of the local Indian culture into my life. I stored away all of my steelhead and salmon gear for 4 years. I couldn't take a fish when the returning numbers were so low. Times are different now, this year and last. I'm out there this year to enjoy from the bounty of the salmon. My wish is that, show by example to our children that salmon are to be cherished. Put away the equipment when need be and when they are plentiful enjoy them, harvest them. I still supported the fisheries and purchased the licenses, support the things you enjoy. I trust that in time, when we reach the deepest pit that things it will be realized. You don't cut off the hand that feeds you. Why destroy the thing you love. But as we all see, that's what we do. We can't pollute in the US like we used to so know we go to other parts of the world where they don't have the same laws. Where have the paper mills gone, the steel mills, the fabric and on and on. Oh, it's cheap labor, no it's pollution laws. When is enough, enough, ask Bill Gates, never !!
Leave no foot print, I learned that in Boy Scouts at age 12, many don't know or care what that means. Man will (some) **** the world for money (Bill G.)and some will support themselves and their families in a way as to cause no ripple.
Ask your kids, they know what is correct. Only somewhere along the road we forget what we learned in Kindergarden. Don't push, no cuts, say your please and thank you's, take only what you can eat, dessert is after dinner, if you make a mess clean it up. Remember how simple life was then.

[riverrat]

excellent posts....but here is a different twist. every group of fisherpeople has their own selfish agenda. commercial=profit, sportsman=fun, indians=tradition. these are all means of killing native fish....and each thinks that they have the right to take the most fish.

what about the fish...who is doing the most for them, protecting them, and restoring them....the answer is the sportsman. they contribute the most to the welfare of the fish...if the commercial fisherman and the indians were to contribute equally we waould have record returns year after year.

to the commercial fisherman...take your boat and your seamanship and but it to good use...be stewards of the sea...maybe the government could hire your boats to patrol the 200 mile limit looking for floating canneries and illegal nets, report them and destroy them legally....this would be for the good of the fish.

to the natives...get over it...if you are one with mother earth than protect the fish...do not sit by the roadside trying to sell fresh fish...what doesn't sell you throw away....get to the casinos and legally take from the white man who caused you so much damage...belive me there is more money in the casino than on the road side

to the sportsman....be responsible and enjoy you right to fish...keep the nates protected...turn in all the law breakers who abuse their fishing privlage.....remember the fish come first or we will have more government intervention...do not give any ammunition to peta or any other radical groups.....please let us all be responsible!!!!!

[Salmonator]

PeterMac, if you're worried about an overabundance of farmed fish then why don't we let the commercial license holders pull the hatchery fish out of weirs or ladders with a ZERO percent impact to native fish. OH I know, because they couldn't write off their boats and equipment... :hoboy:

[bigshark]

Master M , If and when the gillnetters pay their fare share of the cost I will then consider your opinion. The way it seems to work at this point is those few gillnetters take what they don't pay for. Its legalizes STEALING. As usual most of the political mental midgets appointed think the revenue stream from this source is important. I'd love to see the Profit and Loss statement on the tax returns of these so-called commercial fishermen. The dollars dropped in this state by sportfishermen and the tourism that fish bring would be an interesting comparison to the dollars generated by the gillnet boys. But don't fret we don't like to face reality and don't like to fix things until they are broken. When there are no more fish these as**oles will be long gone and play like they had no part in it. And no one will remember how the board who call the shots was ever appointed.

[ 05-03-2002, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: bigshark ]

[Trick]

MM, what rock did you crawl out from under?

Truly, I dont have any beef with sport anglers... There could be enough fish for all groups to make a living and have fun...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There could be enough fish when we get the nets off the river. How does it feel when every year you get first crack at the fish and are granted extension after extension while the sports interests get shafted when the runs don't pan out?
Pretty darn good, huh? Then you get to net all season long in Youngs bay, Toungue point, Knappa slough, Blind slough, etc... intercepting many fish not raised in net pens. How many rivers and streams flow into these areas? Try dozens!

Whole bunch of horse manure flowing from an industry that needs to be shut down. How did it feel killing our native steelhead in those 5" or so gillnets (tooth-tangle) this year? Your industry constantly ***** in it's own nest when it comes to perserving our fishing future. Since you can't make a living at it anyways, why did you continue to fish using that mesh size, when you all knew your were having problems with the March natives being gillnetted in large numbers?

We all should have access to the fish...I agree...so go out and buy a pole, reel and license and join the rest of us.

Can't we all get along....yeah, right. :hoboy:

[PeterMac]

A little worried about chiming in here, but....

Something to consider as you advocate/debate about eliminating commercial fishing is the environmental damage being caused by fish farms up in BC (and other countries that are involved in the industry). It is pretty amazing. We need healthy fish stocks so that everyone can have fun, even the commercial guys, and not let the farms get out of hand.

Granted, I understand you are specically target the Columbia here, but never the less I thought it was somewhat relevant.

[tyee]

NET,FISH,NET,FISH,NET,FISH
I have an idea, Let's all agree to disagree and
go enjoy the weather and bring some fish to the
table......
Tyee

[invader]

MM --- we can get along.. if ALL comercial boats go into the ocean where they belong!!.... wheres my bazzooka??