Fishing Guide Protocol????

[NWRedside]

I went out with a guide yesterday, who I will keep confidential, and was a little bit disapointed at his decision as to when to call it a day. I had taken three friends along so we had four people in his boat. The fishing was for the most part terrible, we had two take downs and one fish netted. I want to clarify right away that I don't think it's the guide's fault that the fishing sucked, that's just the way it goes sometimes. However, in the past when I've gone out with guides, when it gets later in the afternoon he usually asks us what we want to do. Yesterday, after a day of not catching a whole lot we were informed after a pass to take off our divers and plugs, and then we headed for the dock. None of us knew that we were going in, or had even talked about it. I certainly understand if the fishing had been great, the guide leaning torwards going in. However my experience in the past has always been that this is at least discussed before hand.
Yesterday we made it back to the ramp around 4:30. Considering that the fishing on our boat sucked, I would have liked to have the option to stay out longer. In fact, other guide boats who had caught more than we had were still anchored up when we headed for the dock....
What are your opinions on this? What's fair and what's not in regards to how long a guide trip should be. Should it depend on how many people (ie. how much he's making that day) or how well the fishing is going, or that he's got several trips booked over the next week and has to get back to get the boat ready for the next day?

[NAUTI-NOTIONS]

DAYLIGHT TO 3:30-4:00pm is norm on an off day. if its real bad i've gotten a discount and headed in. on good days we've had to tell the guide to call it a day

[Thumper]

Remember --- this guy has to go home and tie up a bunch of new rigs, tend to his rods and reels, wash the boat, etc. etc., all so he can get up at 4 AM again the next day.

Gary Krum used to troll with a little Merc and a 3-gallon tank. He always said that when the trolling motor was out of gas we were done. And he meant it. That usually happened within seconds of 3 PM. A nine-hour day is plenty, considering all the chores still to be done (see above).

[Lured In]

My experience with guides has been awesome, mostly because they were good people and it was clear they were working their *** (self edit) for us. That does not mean we always caught fish. If we didn't catch fish, I felt no ill feeling regarding the day or the effort put forth by the guide. I look at it this way, if I was out there on my own, would I still be on the water and do I think I could have done any better? No way!

Often I have learned more about how to fish certain areas/conditions than caught fish. This knowledge is far more valuable to me than a couple fish or a couple more hours on the water. Why? Because I can take that and apply it to my own fishing arsenal and make it last a lifetime.

I wouldn't fault the guide in this case with the exception of perhaps communicating more clearly what his expectations for the day were. Additionally, a good learning point for you, is that you need to communicate your expectations to the guide for what the day might look like. A key to enjoying a day river with a guide is to understand what should happen (aside from guarentees on catching fish) under certain circumstances.

All the guides I have met are awesome and work hard. My advice is next time communicate your expectations and to keep in mind that the best part of the day is that you should have gained valuable insights into that fishery.

[Jeffhead]

I'd have to say that if the guide had called it quits at noon or 1:00 or so you would have a beef. But calling it a day at 4:30 you got a good 8 hours worth of fishing and just have to chalk it up to one of those days. I do know guides that if it is skunk city and not looking very promising will ask if you want to re-schedule around 10 in the morning, or others like has already been mentioned go for a short day with a discount. I think that we may have higher expectations of guides to "put us on the fish". Sounds to me like you got your monies worth.
good luck and tight lines, Jeff :grin: :grin:

[rob allen]

8 hours is a full day of guided fishing if you want more you should pay for more regardless of how good or bad the fishing is.. When you are unsure about what a guided trips consists of ASK.
If i was hireing a guide first of all o'd be deeply offended if he fished. he cannot do his job and fish at the same time. but then again if i took a guided trip it would be for a specific reason npt just to come home with a limit.
On the other hand guides are not your personal slave for a day. Guides needed to be respected as the professionals that they are. If you are unhappy with a guide the best thing you can do is not use him again

[luguando]

I've been out several times with guides (same outfit) and have never had any problem with fishing time. It sounds like you experienced a communication problem. Your guide should have informed you that he wanted to call it a day. AND you should have said something when it appeared that he was heading back to the dock and you wanted to fish longer. Next time before you go out with a guide make sure you discuss what you want to do (i.e. fishing hours, species you want to catch, location, techniques, etc.). Most guides will accomodate your desires or steer you towards someone else who will.

[whitewaterbill]

And then there is the guide I went with on Friday.
Met up with him at 04:00. Drove 2 hours to launch point.....Fished 3 hours.....Not happening. Loaded boat and drove 1 and 1/2 hours. Fished till a little after 8:PM. Nothing till the last back troll. 2 on at once.

Guess I got my $$$$ worth....I am still pooped.

He thinks that fishing 1/2 day meens the 1/2 that has daylight.

Bill

[lovetofish]

Slutgoddess, sounds like you had a very dedicated
guide! Who was he?

[Snagly]

I fish with guides a fair bit, and here's my checklist of questions when I first get them on the phone.

I start by describing my own (lack of) experience on the river(s) we are considering fishing. I then hit him rapid fire:

1. Are you free for the day(s) I have in mind?

2. What methods to you fish? What has been working/ what do you recommend?

3. When do we meet up? When does the boat usually go in? When do you usually call it a day?

I then mention that I'm a fishing fanatic, and that I like to fish from first light to last light. I don't care about racing down the river to get a lot of first water. I'd rather plod along and hit spots thoroughly over a longer period.

I also mention that I realize that guides have families/ lives outside fishing, need time for pre-trip prep, and other clients the next day.

But are they willing to stay out later if circumstances warrant, and in return I'll pay extra?

4. Oh, and by the way, what do you charge per day/ per person?

5. Do you take credit cards/ personal checks/ or just cash?

6. Do I bring my own lunch? If not, do I pre-order now?

7. (I usually bring my own tackle, but if I'm still checking the guide out I ask what rods and and reels he has in the boat. What line do you use? What brand of hooks? I'm not certain that brands matter. What I'm looking for is a guide who knows what he has for each particular method he uses -- plugging, side drifting, jig fishing, etc -- and is proud of his gear. If I hear, "Oh, I've got 12 or 15lb mono on my rigs" that's less comforting than "I just changed line when the river was out on Wednesday. I've got fresh XYZ 12lb on all the baitcasters and 8lb on the spinning reels.")

Don't be afraid to say "no thanks" if it doesn't sound like the guide's philosophy or work ethic fits your own. And if you do keep the guide out beyond 9 hours or so, then let your tip reflect the extra effort.

[onebuck]

I've only used one guide service and I don't think I'll ever use anyone else for fishing in this area ever! Everytime I've been out with this guide we fish hard, and every time we've been out he's done his job to the tee, which is getting us rigged up with the right equipment and putting us on the fish. I was out with him on Thursday and we absolutely murdered the sturgeon in the Gorge! We put 12 keepers in the boat and between keepers and shakers we boated a minumum of 50 fish! It was non-stop excitment all day long...and let me tell you it was a long day...we we're on the water at 6:15am, fishing by 6:30am, and had boated three keepers by 7:30 not to mention numerous shakers! We fished several spots from 30 feet of water to 115 feet and each spot produced fish! We pulled up anchor about 4:30 pm and everybody was exhausted but everybody was also smiling ear to ear! This guy goes the extra mile for us, and I'm sure he does the same for every customer. I'm looking forward to a drift boat adventure on the coastal rivers come November!

[RichH]

One thing to keep in mind is that this is the guides job. It's not just a weekend hobby thing like most of us. That said, if you were expected to work 10-12 hours a day, 7 days a week without extra pay for doing it you would burn out very quickly. Most guides I know fish a minimum 8 hours a day. With all the travel/set up time I think it would be very unreasonable to expect more unless you were willing to pay more.

Also rememeber that after you're done fishing for the day they still have on average 2-4 hours of prep time for the next days adventure. That could make in some cases a 16-20 hour day if you tack in travel....

[whitewaterbill]

Lovetofish,

Sent you an e-mail with that information..

Bill

[CATCH AND EAT]

Lets see $140.00 per day at 8 hours per day guiding = $17.50 per hour. Not bad until you consider he goes home and cleans his boat and sets up for the next day. Minimum 1 hour per day. so in reality 140 divided by 9 = 15.50 per hour. Okay, so some guides (the good ones have more than one customer on the boat per day. But what about the days with no clients or one client? They certainly are not getting rich from you.

Plus they have to entertain you and babysit you all day long and then listen to you whine if the fishing sucks. Come on, show some compassion. Next time pick a guide that has it going on and knows his stuff. No guide is perfect and skunk days just happen.

Since you were springer fishing and got one fish to the boat you got your moneys worth. If you want more fish brother buy from the Indians. :wink:

And guides, pay attention to your clients needs. Share with them because most of us want to learn. I go on guided trips to learn. I have gone on three this year and got skunked on one. I still tipped the guide even though I got skunked.

It kills me just to get up two days in a row early in the a.m. I can't imagine everyday doing this stuff.

[whitewaterbill]

And then there was that guide I went with the week before last....He hooked us all up with divers and K-14's.

He backbounced egg's and hooked all but one of the 7 fish for the day. Ya know....If he would have let us fish up to the correct level....We would have had an outstanding day....But he was more concerned with making us think he was "GREAT"...And we needed him........

He was also an 8 hour guide.......I don't hold that against him...Just the poor tactics.

Bill

[ 04-22-2002, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: SLUTGODDESS ]

[CATCH AND EAT]

Slutgoddess, I will agree with you on one point that some guides just want to make sure their clients get fish. That kind of bites if the clients are capable fisherpersons. Especially if they make mention that they are there to learn.

Make sure your guide is willing to teach you or explain his tactics. They don't have to give up the farm, just share some of their knowledge to make you happy and a better fisherperson.

Select you guide carefully. That's what it takes. I have been with guides on the Clack that won't let you back bounce. They catch the fish and hand it off. "let me try, let me try". Awhhhh shut up and sit down mister client. I am trying to get ya a fish. Hummmmmmmm.... something for guides to consider anyway.

peace. :cheers:

[Grant Scheele]

To me it makes sense to teach your clients as much as you can. The best guides have steady long term clients that are good fishermen themselves. Quite often taught by the guide during many previous trips.

Who do you think is going to catch the most fish with everything starting at even? A guide with a boatload of yahoos OR a guide with a couple of trained backbouncing slayers.

I personally would rather catch no fish while practicing a new technique and be prepared to slay on my next trip than to have the guide hand me the rod several times and not learn a thing.

[Steelie Ben]

My girlfriend and I went on our very first guided trip thrusday, and while the fishing wasn't the greatest(I got the big skunk while she boated two keepers!) I had a very good time. Most of this was because of the guides effort to make the day enjoyable. We too were back at the dock at around 4:30ish and I was completely satisfied with this. If you think that your guide was probably up somewhere around 3:30 to get everything ready for the day and get to the disired destination and not to metion the hour and a half to get the boat ready to go the next day I would say that 10 hours on the water is plenty. I don't know how many hours most of you work a day but I would put money on it that you are under the 12-14 hour range. Thats just my two cents. Oh, is it common place to tip after you are done fishing? I saw someone mention this and am starting to feel bad that I didn't.
Ben

[metalhead madness]

I use guides quite a bit. I have a certan one for each body of water i fish. for the coast I use a guide that eats sleeps and breaths the rivers there. He acually lives on the wilson. The portland rivers I use different ones for the Clack, Sandy, Willamette, and columbia. Also a different guide for sturies. All work very hard and are good comunicators. I have fished with a few jack ***** and will never use them again. I won't smear their name I just won't use them. If you would like to email me I could give you the names of the Guys I have had great success with. Also as most everyone has said you got a pretty good day of fishing in.

[NWRedside]

Thanks for all your input guys, I agree with most of it although it seems that some people mis-understood my original post. I did do a lot of research before I went on this trip, and this guide comes highly recommended, even from this board. I went on the trip to learn some new tactics, and am fully aware that off days happen..not a problem at all. I personally don't think its worth paying for a guided trip if it's just to get into fish, there's got to be a desire to learn some new techniquies as well. Again, the main jist of what I was saying is that in the past guides have always communicated better about what time to head in and call it a day. I got back to the ramp and my buddies told me they thought we were putting up the rods to go somewhere else to try some more..
Anyway, I'm not upset with this guide and consider the day for the most part very enjoyable. He was very willing to share info and was very informative.
Snagly: I like your post on the different questions you ask, especially how long they are willing to stay out. Makes sense to talk about it before hand.
Also, what do you guys think about having more freedom with more people on the boat. I know that there is additional costs and time associated with each extra fisherman on the boat, however I don't think it's a direct relationship between the extra work and the extra pay. I always make it a point to try and fill up the boat whenever I go for a guided trip. I guess I've always assumed that the guide would prefer to make double or triple the money as long as he is out there. Besides, I've always got plenty of friends and family that love doing the trips. Maybe this is a bad assumption though and I shouldn't expect that a guide really cares?

[Fish-n-finn]

What about cell phone use by the guide. Went out with a guide a couple of weeks ago and he was constantly on his cell phone. He was either booking trips, personal calls or even discussing sponsership of products. I have never seen this before with other guides I have been out with. Anyone have any comments about this.

[finclipped]

Fish n fin,,,, they are getting reports from other guides on the river. Don't be upset, they trying to get you into fish. They may have personal calls too, but the guide I fish with is constantly getting reports, giving reports & asking what is working, trying to find the fish. Why do you think these guys are so dialed in?

[Fish-n-finn]

Yes I understand about talking with other guides and getting reports but this was not what he was doing. It was all personal or business calls nothing about where the fish are or what other guides were catching them on.

[Snagly]

Wow! Are there really guides who hook all the fish and hand off the rod? Hooking the fish yourself is 60% of the catchin'.

I've never had a guide take a lot of calls in the boat. If that happened more than 1-2x in a day I'd ask him to turn it off.

I have a different view than many on guides fishing. I think that a guide who fishes is mentally more engaged than one who is running the boat. I want the guide switched on 100%. I also benefit from learning that (a) my presentation sucked, because the guide following me through the water hooked up or (b) there is a variation to a common technique that is working (e.g. stripping vs. dead drifting a fly may work better some days).

However, I'm referring to river fishing where we anchor up and get out and fish a run. I don't want the guide fishing in front of me. And I don't want to compete with the guide to make the quickest cast into the choice water. Believe it or not, I have a couple of guides (one for steelhead, one for swamp thangs in Australia) who view a day out with my buddy and me as a three-way competition to see who catches the most/ biggest fish. Now these guys are friends, but we're still paying serious bucks for their companionship and expertise. If everyone's hitting fish it's fun but I can tell you that I was steamed a few weeks ago when Slick and I decided to rest the tailout and walked 50 yards up to the head on a steelhead river. Our guide was beached in-between. Twenty minutes later he picks up his rod and over the next hour hooks 3 steelhead in the tail while we work our way back down to him (catching zilch in the process). We finally told him to put his rod down and eat lunch. He asked why and I told him that at minus $10 in tips for each fish hooked he was just about back to zero!

Anyway, that's a rarity. I use guides for three reasons:

1. To learn where the fish hold in that particular river/ body of water under given conditions

2. To learn new ways to catch them

3. To catch fish.

[PittsburghD]

On the tip thing, it is customary to tip a guide the same percentage you would a waiter if you catch fish. Especially if they dress it for you. If you skunk 'em, which I do all the time, they usually apologize profusely, but I pay them the full amount. Hey we all do something to make a living, just because they work our hobby doesn;t change things. You save years of learning a river by taking one or two guided trips on a river.

Pay 'em what you pay that outrageous appliance repairman! They are worth ten of them!

----D