Bait on Native steelhead???

[toblerone]

I am looking to get more information on the idea of using bait on local coast rivers late in the season. Knowing that 95% catch rate now is going to be native fish and having been told about a high mortality rate on fish inhaling the hook when bait is fished behind divers, why do SO MANY people continue to use this method on our catch and release wild winter steelhead. Is there any fact and/or statistics regarding bait and diver vs plug or drift fishing? Are hook ups, release and survivability reasonable with bait and diver??
I know there are several local professionals still encouraging this practice, And there catch rates are very good( especially this last week!!!)
Are those fish just beat up and discarded??? Nine of ten boats on Wednesday I saw or spoke with were
using bait. Saturday there were just as many....
Just trying to gather information so I can make an informed desision on whether of not I want to stay with-out bait in the future.

Think Fish
John

Team Meg Ryan Skin Cream

[Fishin Magician]

Good Post John- I agree with you on using bait on a diver/bait setup. The presentation encourages the fish to take the bait deep. I dont run diver and bait rigs for steelhead when there are numbers of native fish showing up. I still put a shrimp tail on a jig, however I have never hooked a fish on a jig where it took it deep. They are almost always hooked in the upper lip or in the corner of the mouth. I would like to see others voluntarily put the divers away. The preservation of the natives is worth more than mortally wounding one of these fish with one of these setups.
John

[Mad Mikey]

If you are gonna let em' go, use hotshots or a similar plug. Go barbless for sure, no need for bait divers on Natives, they are aggressive enough to take a hard lure. It breaks my heart to see someone boat, net and fiddle around with a native flopping around in the boat.
Bring the fish to the boat and grab the plug with pliers, it will shake it off and you won't have to touch it.
Remember why you are there, to fight a fish. Ypur freezer ought to be full of hatchery fish by now so go get it on with a wild brute and turn it loose. You'll probably be able to catch it's babies in a few years. :grin: :grin: :grin:

Mike

[Big Willie]

Hi John, it was good talking with you yesterday in Mac. Like I mentioned, I was on the river Wednesday and Saturday and still saw divers and bait in other boats. I'm a big fan of them say around Thanksgiving to mid January or so when natives start showing up. But this year was different with nates coming in early. I choose not to use divers in my boat this time of year, but that's exactly what it is, a choice. We have all seen, well maybe, how a steelhead takes a sandshrimp or some eggs behind a diver and it is very effective. But in my humble opinion, they need to be put away right now. My .02
-Gary

[Gus Orviston]

Okay, so where is the ODFW on this topic? If the use of bait/diver indeed has a higher percentage of killing a fish than other setups, and if losing any of these fish is paramount to keeping the runs alive then why don't we have another regulation added? Don't use bait after Jan 1, Jan 15, Feb 1, pick your date. It seems easy enough to swallow :grin: , and there are way more petty regs on the books than something like this.

I think a poll graemlins/icon_argue.gif should be done...

Would you support a new reg banning diver/bait after a specific date, pending river history of returning natives, or impromptu based on the presence of native fish being caught?

[cosmo]

Before getting regulation happy, think it through. There is nothing wrong with fishing bait on native fish---it is divers and bait that is the problem. You can drift fish eggs and shrimp all day long, try to let them swallow it and just because of the angle of the presentation, you'll get most all in he corner of the mouth. It is the direct presentation of a diver and bait that is the problem, not the bait itself. Communication between anglers and most effectively--peer pressure--will solve the problem. I prefer anglers keep our own house clean rather than letting someone dictate how we approach fishing.

[NEUTRON]

Don't agree with all of the opinions here and that is fine....I agree with part of cosmos post,
be careful what you ask for. Handle all fish you intend to release with care. Why do we put such emphasis on "native" steelhead. How about the spring run of chinook...does the same apply to them? Just a question, no intention to upset anyone.

[Pete]

Over the last week I've seen lots of native Cutthroat hooked while steelheading on the coast. The low water conditions generally mean using smaller hooks. I encourage everyone to go barbless to help avoid hurting the little guys. Also, if you do catch a Cuttie, don't derrick them out of the water. Keep them in the water if you can. If you lift them by the hook and they are thrashing about (when aren't they?) they may have internal injuries that won't be apparent when you release them.

[Gus Orviston]

Don't get me wrong I am not regulation happy, but there are ways to manage this issue. Sure use bait, but bait only below terminal gear such as swivels, bobbers, or whatever, but it can be written to not be all inclusive; don't just jump to NO. If this is a real issue, there are a lot of people out there doing it right now as I type this and when you read this (assuming it is not dark), and we aren't going to make much of dent through scowling at those who violate the unwritten laws of the river. Heck people can even merge on the freeway with common sense let alone fish.

I would much rather see a regulation that would remove the speculation and the ODFW can set the rules and not us. We on ifish are not the majority out there.

[M W Sheller]

I catch fish, winter steelhead, summer steelhead, brats & nates, and spring chinook, all on spinners, thats my choice. The point is you don't need to use bait when those prescious natives are present. If it takes new regs. so be it. Bait is not needed to catch wild steelhead!

[Bubzilla]

Cosmo is exactly right. It's the presentation that is the problem when it comes to diver and bait. Contrary to popular myth, use of bait while drift fishing is not in and of itself a problem. In my experience, it's generally individuals with limited experience with regard to drift fishing who believe the opposite--not slamming anyone just making an observation about my experiences. I think the main problem is that a lot of people have the mistaken impression that it's like tossing worms to trout--as those are their primary bait fishing experiences. Nothing could be further from the truth, however. Most of the guides that I know, many of whom have been present at the catch-and-release of literally hundreds of native steelhead, would agree that bait in and of itself is not a problem.

As ironic as it may seem, many of the people who are most vocal about the alleged dangers of all bait fishing applications are the same ones who spend twenty minutes taking pictures of their catch. Or the ones that never appreciate how long it really takes to properly revive a fish. Or the ones that haven't the slightest idea what lactic acid is, and what it means to a fish.

I guess my point is that pointing an accusing finger at bait is not fair or accurate. Over the years I've seen as many fly anglers do things that would virtually assure fish fatality as I have bait anglers--despite what the various user groups may wish to believe about themselves. Diver and bait is one thing; incorrectly making allegations about all bait uses is quite another. Whether or not its use is necessary really isn't the point. The real question is whether it's ethical. And, the answer to that question, bait and diver rigs aside, is yes.

[Big Willie]

Well, with the regulations with cutts and bait restrictions sometime in March (?), sorry for not knowing the exact date. I would like to see a reg on the use of bait behind a diver in our rivers sometime mid to late January. I agree with the above statements regarding bait while drift fishing...they always, in my experience, get hooked in the corner of the mouth.
-Gary

[Gus Orviston]

I don't see any of toblerone's questions getting answered? I am surprised Marty or David haven't attempted to address them in this thread, sorry to put you guys on the spot, but this is the best discussion on bait/diver I have seen.

[Wet_Willy]

Well put Bubzilla.
WW

[David Johnson]

This argument is a continuous circle, to use bait or not use bait. I favore using bait for natives but not behind a diver. I've caught 100's and 100's of steelhead drifting bait and have only had a very small (maybe three or four)amount take it deep.

The argument is do we ban bait becuase of a few inconsiderate individuals, or do we have a nit-pick regualation of no divers, or do we use bait and educate people not to use the divers.

A lot of people that use them this time of year use them becuase it's the only way they know how to catch fish. Of course a lot of times these same people only catch a couple fish a year and don't know how to handle a fish properly for release and the fish suffers.

There would be less mortality on fish caught with diver and bait if the fish were taken care of correctly, so it could be done, but it's not suggested. Just learn to catch fish with other methods.

What do you think Marty?