pouring foam under the floor question

[gordy]

Have any of you ever pulled the foam from under the flooring in your boat and reinstalled the foam using the self mix and pour product??
I am rebuilding an old Smoker Craft and when I pulled the old floor, I of course ruined the waterproof integrity of the factory foam.
I have now sealed the remaining foam with oil based primer and paint but there are some pretty good sized spots where I want to refoam.
I know household foam is not the way to go as it will be walked on and again, the waterproofing integrity will be lost.
Anybody have any experience with the pour in product let me know and I will throw a couple questions at you by way of p.m.

[twisted lines]

I have used it a few times, make sure the surfaces are as warm as you can get them, Careful the existing foam burns really well, mix the two parts in small quantitys 1 cup ? It gets out of hand very quick, Don't know if you have the two parts yet, you might find a sourse that has it and applys it as well not a good time with stirr sticks.

[gordy]

I was wondering what the temperature requirements were.
My unheated garage is getting a bit cool these last few weeks.
I can just picture stirring the mix just a tad bit too long and having a cup runneth over.
does it at least give you a few second leeway from the time you are done stirring before it mushrooms??

[twisted lines]

Yes you have some time to play with it. if its not warm enough it dosent expand well and you will need to fill again , but if you overfill, I like to use a wire brush on a grinder you can shape it pretty easy but it sure makes a mess.

[IDWITHELD]

There are different expansion rates for the poly eurathane foam products. The more agressive ones are 16:1 or higher. It can be easy to over-fill a cavity and end up doing a lot of grinding after wards.
Use caution when dealing with catalyzing materials.
I have actually seen fires start when the wrong mixture ratios were used. The last thing you want is a fire and to breath isocyanate.

Also these are temperature sensative. The industrial materials I used in the early 90's were not recommended for use below 70 degrees F.

[RGB]

Floatation foam used for boats is a closed cell polyurathane. The integrity of the foam shoudn't be damaged by tearing a little off due to the closed cell nature of the product. That being said, when I pulled the floor in my boat the foam was completely water logged. If you can stick a screwdriver in the foam, and not see any moisture on it you should be fine. Since your boat came from Walla Walla it may not have been subjected to as much rain as a local boat would have.

[gordy]

With the top skin layer of the foam being ripped off I can only assume that it will be sucking up the water now that it is on this side of the mountains.
Please, somebody correct me if I am wrong cause I really don't care to do more than is necessary but I sure don't wanna tear the flooring off in another five years to find soaked foam due to lazyness on my part now.
You are right about it being dry do to being under cover and sitting in a dry enviornment (wallawalla) for the last 24 years. That is plenty of time for any residual moisture to have evaporated but no telling what the foam will do once the winter rains have a chance to start hitting it here in wet-ville.
Unless I hear otherwise I am gonna just keep slapping oil-based paint over all the foam that had it's top layer peeled off and get it ready for some pour-in foam to finish it off.
Sure would be nice if we get a couple weeks of 80 degree weather...
But RGB I am stumped....marine foam being closed cell means that all of it is closed cell. so how does it become waterlogged???
It was explained to me that the smooth shiny skin of the product is what provides 99 percent of the waterproofing capabilities of the product. When the original exterior shiney skin is removed it must be replaced with another waterproof treatment (oil-based paint for instence)
Our boat expert here in Longview has been known to be wrong so feel free to set me straight if I am ding needless work by resealing the floor foam.

[adobe wall]

I poured a bunch of that stuff when I worked at McKenzie's. I'd say you'll be fine coating it with paint- it is closed cell and should not waterlog.

If you do decide to mix/pour, weigh each half separately per the manufacturer's ratio, then mix it for about 30 seconds with a paint spinner blade in a drill, then pour it. I can't imagine hand mixing and ending up with anything other than a mess.

Coat your hands with a light coat of lotion then put on some rubber gloves, too. The stuff is incredibly tenacious. It will permanently stain any clothing it touches.

hth, aw

[RGB]

It's supposed to be closed cell, so I really can't say why it soaked up so much water. What started my project was soft floor's. When I pulled the floor to replace it I saw moisture. When I stuck a screwdriver into the foam I got splashed in the face with water. I ended up removing 450# of water logged foam from the hull( I weighed each bag of foam I tore out). The boat's eighteen years old, and I'm not the first owner. It may have spent years out in the rain. You should check for moisture in the foam. Do a search of the boat forum for " crevice corrosion", if there is water in the foam you'll just be sealing it in. When I got the foam out I found that I had pitting in the bottom. I'm just relaying my experiences, I'm by no means an expert. This project has been one thing after another that started at the end of last duck season.

[gordy]

I am afraid I may have an extended fixer-upper too.
Heck the temperatures alone may set me back until spring. It would break the budget to try to heat the garage up enough to cure the foam and floor glue when I ever get around to laying the carpet down.
I guess secretely I may do the dance of happiness if they cancell springer season. At least I wont be the only one with a unused boat.
My foam is bone dry but spending its life where it seldom rains and being undercover all its life only means it is dry for now.

[Chrome Bumper]

Its closed cell foam, nicks don't matter much. fiberglasssupply.com

[Jason S]

I am afraid I may have an extended fixer-upper too.
Heck the temperatures alone may set me back until spring. It would break the budget to try to heat the garage up enough to cure the foam and floor glue when I ever get around to laying the carpet down.
I guess secretely I may do the dance of happiness if they cancell springer season. At least I wont be the only one with a unused boat.
My foam is bone dry but spending its life where it seldom rains and being undercover all its life only means it is dry for now.

Kerosene heater. Heat my 20 X 28ft shop with it in the winter. Turn it way down a couple hours before going out and build temp slowly to avois condensation on my tools. 5 gallons lasts me about 15 days of working. Granted I am onl;y heating for 8 hours a day. The residual leat left in the concrete floor makes it a lot easier to get warmed up the next time. But the ceiling and walls are insulated.

[gordy]

Talked with Steven Marine today and got an answer to the waterlogged boat foam discussion we have been having.
The modern foam IS closed cell foam BUT the vintage of foam in my boat is not closed cell. It is exactly the same as the styrofoam that gets shoved into a vase at the flower shops. Made to suck up and hold water if the top skin has been removed or it becomes cracked or drilled into and not sealed from above.

[N/R Salmon slayer]

For those of you using PUR (Polyurethane Foam) I would suggest you try and get to 85' F. before using it. Polyurethane foam is very temperature sensitve and temperatures drives expansion and cure times. Second, the foam is indothermic and creates considerable heat during expansion. Filling large voids in excess of 8-10" of thickness should be done in layers to avoid to much heat. There are also different densities of PUR foam, 1lb-13lb per cubic ft.. We manufacture insulated fishing boxes and use a 2lb. foam, it has great structural integrity, bouyancy and thermal values. Last, polyurethane foam skins over when cured which creates a good water barrier. If the barrier is scaped off or punctured it will wick water gradually over time. Coat this with a good paint and you would be fine.

If I were filling a void in the bottom of a boat I would get everything done and button up the bottom leaving a fill hole and 1-2 vent holes for the foam to expand. Mix the foam and pour it into the cavity (making sure you do the foam and see what the expansion ratio will be). Pour a bit more foam into the cavity then needed. As the foam expands it will be able to fill the cavity and expand through the vent holes. Once cured out trim off the foam expanded through the vent holes and seal them over with a patch of some type.

Any questiosn PM me.

[gordy]

NOW YA CHIME IN !!!
Just funning with you...Thanks for the input. I completed the flooring part before the big freeze hit so I guess I am good to go.
I used oil-based paint to seal every bit of skinned foam and since it will be stored under cover when not in use I hope to keep moisture absorption to a minimum.
Just cut the carpeting for my bow and side rail section tonight and did a dry fitting so see how it will look..Looks fairly aduquate. One spot that got away from me a bit when I was trimming but now I am waiting for a bit of warmer weather to let the mastic have a chance of holding the carpet down.

[N/R Salmon slayer]

What's the saying... "Better late then never"!

Merry Christmas to you and family!