View Full Version : smallmouth fly size
I know there is a lot of experience among the posters here. I am a very new smallmouth fisherman (John Day River). I do not have problems finding some fish and I fish with flies about 90% of the time. I seem to catch an abundance of 7 inch bass, though. I don't know if this is lack of skill (can't find big ones) or just that everyone catches tons of little guys. One thing I thought might help was if I increased the hook size. What size hook is typical for smallmouth? I'm guessing that trout hooks are generally going to be too small.
Thanks for all the great info
Tar Heel
09-18-2008, 11:54 AM
Thre are tons of small fish in the John Day, so don't be dissapointed. I whish they would invoke a slot limit, saving all fish over 14" for C&R.
I seem to catch the bigger ones under water with leach, and crayfish patterns when I use flies. While you might catch smallies on size 22 mayfly or caddis, your better off w/ a big #2-4 leach, hopper or crayfish immitaion on a sink tip. Alot of fun to use poppers too, and I don't know what size they are. Any good fly shop should be able to help.
Fish the mouth. brige pilings and rock out cropings. cast under the trees with tan boatmans near the mouth at dusk and dawn and fish the rocks 500 yards up stream in the columbia and 500 yards down stream. I use large sparkling dregger buggers w/fur tuft on the bottem worked slowly in. Monster smallies ply these waters. I use a float tube or row boat stelth is important. I fish this area several times a year and pull some of my finest toads from this strech.
Dave Smith
09-25-2008, 11:27 AM
Go BIG and dredge the bottom and working it slow- you might be surprised what you catch- good luck
Z. Kodaly
09-25-2008, 07:32 PM
Go BIG and dredge the bottom and working it slow- you might be surprised what you catch- good luck
Yup, that's pretty much the way to go, whether it's smallmouth on the John Day or bigger trout on almost any lake.
I generally just use a simple marabou leech---brown or black marabou for both the wing and body dubbing, copper ribbing, and some lead wire under it all to get it down. It costs maybe 20 cents to tie, which means it doesn't hurt much if you hang up.
That said, the John Day needs to be seriously culled of bass. Maybe a hundred years ago it was probably a decent river for trout. However, since the agricultural diversions the lower river is pretty much devoid of trout and overstocked with smallies. Harvest a bunch and give them to the cats...
arkansasbasser
09-25-2008, 08:56 PM
However, since the agricultural diversions the lower river is pretty much devoid of trout and overstocked with smallies. Harvest a bunch and give them to the cats...
Why is it that trouters and others that don't fish for bass feel compelled to come over to our board and talk about feeding the fish that we love to cats or using them for crab bait and other suggestions that I have heard? We don't do that on the trout board and fly fish board. What is wrong with you people that you would be so insensitive? This IS a bass board for crying out loud! If they need fed to something, we'll feed them to ourselves, thank you very much. Get some insight man!
Z. Kodaly
09-25-2008, 10:35 PM
Why is it that trouters and others that don't fish for bass feel compelled to come over to our board and talk about feeding the fish that we love to cats or using them for crab bait and other suggestions that I have heard? We don't do that on the trout board and fly fish board. What is wrong with you people that you would be so insensitive? This IS a bass board for crying out loud! If they need fed to something, we'll feed them to ourselves, thank you very much. Get some insight man!
Hmmm...calm down. Have you ever fished there??? Are you familiar with the situation on the John Day?
The trout are never coming back, and there are way too many stunted bass. By the way, the same thing needs to be done with any number of high country lakes overpopulated with brookies. Dump a fish where it didn't evolve--whether it's brookies or bass-- and things get out of whack.
arkansasbasser
09-26-2008, 09:25 AM
Hmmm...calm down. Have you ever fished there??? Are you familiar with the situation on the John Day?
The trout are never coming back, and there are way too many stunted bass. By the way, the same thing needs to be done with any number of high country lakes overpopulated with brookies. Dump a fish where it didn't evolve--whether it's brookies or bass-- and things get out of whack. Yes I know. I've heard it and heard it on here about invasive species. You're missing my point. If it was up to me, I would have bass in every body of water that could possibly support them. I could care less about a trout, except that they make good bass snacks. But I don't go over to the trout board and suggest that we feed trout to cats, now do I?
We spend hundreds of hours and dollars every year on this sport. To suggest that bass are only worthy of feeding to cats is an insult to everyone here that admires, cherishes and enjoys this wonderful sporting fish. Again, this is a bass board.
Dave Smith
09-26-2008, 09:45 AM
That said, the John Day needs to be seriously culled of bass. Maybe a hundred years ago it was probably a decent river for trout. However, since the agricultural diversions the lower river is pretty much devoid of trout and overstocked with smallies. Harvest a bunch and give them to the cats...
Cats didn't evolve here, either, why would you feed them?
arkansasbasser
09-27-2008, 05:40 PM
Cats didn't evolve here, either, why would you feed them?
Word!
Z. Kodaly
09-28-2008, 02:34 PM
Cats didn't evolve here, either, why would you feed them?
To fatten them up for the coyotes.......:)
Thanks for all the ideas (not to mention interesting debate). I'm a trout fishermen most of the time because that's what my dad showed me how to do. I like to fish for smallmouth a little bit, too, and find them to be different, but still very fun. I don't know why some trout guys look down there noses, but don't let that make you think that everyone is that way. Lots of "purist" trout guys look down at other trout fishermen, too- fishing the wrong way or whatever.
Heck as long as you are having fun (and not doing anything that ruins another person's fun), that what fishing is about, right?
Will be tying up some bigger flies this week for our smallmouth fishing this weekend.
Dave Smith
09-28-2008, 09:36 PM
To fatten them up for the coyotes.......:)
:D:meme:Good one!
Pelhament
10-01-2008, 11:41 AM
For smallies and largies I use nothing smaller than a 1/0 bass bug hook. I tie up some pretty kickass craws and grub patterns that are pretty killer, as well as my special little spinner bait fly that hammers large mouth bass. However, it seems bass will hit anything including lures/flies bigger than themselves. I caught a 1.5in largemouth this week on a 3 in. wooleybugger fishing for trout.
Spider Craw: (not created by me)
http://www.flytyingforum.com/uploads/img47fd5bb7cd3f5.jpg
Spider Grub: (not created by me)
http://www.flytyingforum.com/uploads/img4780d972de93a.jpg
Spinner Bait Fly I came up with for a wierd fly swap.
http://www.westfly.com/photopost/data/500/SpinnerBait.png
mkwerx
10-01-2008, 03:49 PM
Hey Pel,
Would you mind sharing the recipes for those flies? I'd love to tie some up myself.
Pel,
Nice. I need to up my hook size for sure. The 8's and 6's are just too yummy for the 6-7 inch hordes.
THat 2nd one looks really cool. I haven't had much trouble hooking fish with many patterns on the John Day as I think there is competition for all food. I would like to cull some of those dinks out.
mkwerx
10-01-2008, 04:37 PM
Pel,
Nice. I need to up my hook size for sure. The 8's and 6's are just too yummy for the 6-7 inch hordes.
THat 2nd one looks really cool. I haven't had much trouble hooking fish with many patterns on the John Day as I think there is competition for all food. I would like to cull some of those dinks out.
JD - if you're serious about catching larger smallies you definately need to upsize your hooks - #4 is as small as I'd go (for finesse situations) - most of my bass bugs are in the 2/0 size range. Smaller fish can still occsionaly eat the bigger bugs, but it makes it harder to hook them, and the bulkier bug is a more attractive meal to a bigger fish (energy expended for amount of food consumed is a factor for a fish's diet. Would you rather nibble M&M's all day long, or munch down on a 16 oz T-bone in one sitting for dinner?)
Pelhament
10-02-2008, 08:18 AM
Spider Craw Recipe: http://www.flytyingforum.com/pattern6209.html
Spider Grub: http://www.flytyingforum.com/pattern5618.html
Spinner Bait Fly:
Hook: Wide Gap Bass Bug
Eyes: Lead Dumbell
Spinner Bait Skirt
40lb Mono
Silver Krystal Flash
Place a 4in section of 40lb mono in your vise and tie on a clump of silver Krystal Flash to the end, whip finish and head cement.
Bend a 90 degree bend in mono
Attach mono to hook
Attach dumbell eyes to hook
Tie skirt on in the same fashion you would a spinner bait.
Create a clouser head.
Whip finish
If the Krystal flash is too long it will clump together in the water, so I always tie it long and test it out in the water clipping off a little at a time until I get the right movement.
arkansasbasser
10-02-2008, 10:14 PM
Heck as long as you are having fun (and not doing anything that ruins another person's fun), that what fishing is about, right?
Agreed!!