skating for steel questions

[dirtyCut]

need a few pointers for skating for steelhead. i havent yet tried this method and am gear'd up for it - i think! my questions are these -

what length leader should i tie up, how light and will a lighter leader help float it longer?

do i approach the same as swinging?

fast water or frog/slack water?

which flies to focus with? which size?

i have tied up several in the winter while i had some down time, and am ready to throw em all - bulkly moose, rusty bullet, olive caddis, grizzly peacock, caddis flash, humpy orange, lemires irresistible.... and a few others i cant remember right now.

any tips are welcome as well as pm's.

thanks in advance
mark

[Grantspastor]

I have taken quite a few over the years incidentally with skating or waking flies. I fish small flies and in heavier flows they will tend to rise to the surface and wake. On one occasion on the North Umpqua I took two fish back to back intentionally skating a fly after unsuccessfully fishing several wet patterns in the same water. I always use a floating line and on the Rogue where fish average a little smaller I taper the leader to 6lb

[AndyK]

what length leader should i tie up, how light and will a lighter leader help float it longer?

do i approach the same as swinging?

fast water or frog/slack water?

which flies to focus with? which size?

I'm no expert on skating flies, but have had some success. I like a long, twelve foot leader; tippet size doesn't matter and I usually use a heavy one (0x or 01X). I tie the fly on with a loop (unless I am using a riffle hitch) so the heavy leader doesn't affect the action.

Not the same approach as swinging; don't mend the line as much because you want drag to move the fly.

Almost all my success has been in faster water. Steelhead lay in shallower water when there is more surface movement and are less likely to be spooked by your cast and fly line.

Smaller flies have been more productive (at least in Oregon/Washington).

[FiHuFun]

"Grease" your line with some fly float (including the fly and leader), and use a waking fly and it is very effective.


need a few pointers for skating for steelhead. i havent yet tried this method and am gear'd up for it - i think! my questions are these -

what length leader should i tie up, how light and will a lighter leader help float it longer?

do i approach the same as swinging?

fast water or frog/slack water?

which flies to focus with? which size?

i have tied up several in the winter while i had some down time, and am ready to throw em all - bulkly moose, rusty bullet, olive caddis, grizzly peacock, caddis flash, humpy orange, lemires irresistible.... and a few others i cant remember right now.

any tips are welcome as well as pm's.

thanks in advance
mark

[Rightbait]

the most important thing to remember is to drop your rod tip to the fish if you get a rise..DO NOT set the hook in the traditional pull back method, wait to feel the waight of the fish THEN lift the rod tip
.
you will become addicted to watching a skated fly through a run....

have fun.

[D3smartie]

skating flies is one of my favorite ways to fish. I'd rather catch 1 on top than 5 on the swing. Its addicting.
I fish with a 9-11 foot leader with tippet down to 2x or 3x. Do not use flourocarbon as it sinks and you want your leader on the top, not pulling the fly down.
There are lots of great flies but i dont think they matter that much. Steelhead caddis and small wogs are usually what I fish. sizes 4-8.
As for water, I try to find the greasy looking stuff and skate flies through that, although you can skate flies through just about anything. Almost all good steelhead water is capable of having a dry fly run though it, and the more you fish it, the better chance you have. :)
Look for moderate current, 4-6 feet deep and a nice seam. i usually make the same cast as when i am swinging a wet although I try to have the fly hit the water and start moving right away without mending my line. sometimes that will entice a strike very quickly.
http://img429.imageshack.us/img429/6636/dsc00125dg3.jpg
http://img429.imageshack.us/img429/1690/dsc00106oj6.jpg
http://img429.imageshack.us/img429/9898/dsc00123qs2.jpg

Just lookin at the old pictures makes me want to head for the G.R. and find some fish.
And just like Rightbait said, dont pull it away from them. Wait for the line to come tight and then lift. I cant tell you how many fish I have missed because I have burned their lips :(
And if you get a fish to rise, wait for a minute and then make the same cast again, if he doesnt come back, either switch patterns take a step back up stream, or get dirty with a wet fly.
Have fun. its the best.

[rob allen]

8lb maxima chameleon for tippet never any need to use anything less... steelhead are never leader shy with this presentation.

use a leader the length of your rod

cast down and across just like the wet fly swing but do so at an angle to where the fly will imediatly be fishing against a tight line. never cast across and make a big mend like with a wet fly that only gives the fly time to sink

any water that holds steelhead is good skating water in dome faster water you are best off to just hold your fly in it as long as you can rather than try to make a perfect swing... a fly fished poorly will catch more fish than a fly not cast and some spots are so fast they cannot be fished well, just fish them anyway you'll be suprised..

when the fish takes do not react until you feel the fish on the line.. if the fish is on a short cast your best option is to drop the rod tip.

now through october is prime time

[mcsquidly]

You may also want to consider casting at a steeper angle to get the fly skating soon and correctly. I like about 30-45 degrees from straight down stream. This will make a big difference in the way the fly will fish. Its a must!

As noted in other posts, if a fish takes the flee dont do a thing until you feel the weight of the fish.

After seeing fish crawl all over your skater you will never want to fish for steelies any other way!! In fact, you may eventually selectivly fish rivers that fish well to the skater.

PS- either tie or buy your skaters that ride hook point down! This will result in much less frustration and more hook-ups.

[dirtyCut]

very cool fellas - i can not wait to hit it!!! i would've been mending like working a leach had i not posted for advice... thanks to all.

mark

[chromeseeker]

All superb info.

And the takes will vary from ones so vicious you'll jump out of your waders to a modest "sip" or swirl at the fly, not much different from a trout or smolt. The last fish I hooked barely sipped my offering but turned out to be a native 10lb. hen that gave me a nice beat-down.

Riffle-hitching the fly works, but try patterns that don't have to riffle-hitched as I think you have better hook-up chances.

Have fun!

CS

[dirtyCut]

Well I gave it a shot the other day and notta.... I have another opportunity tomorrow though. I had a few in the second slot I fished that were hitting something on the surface for about 30 minutes, then my fly going over them time n time again I think turned em off. dont know what they were hitting.... ended up running a leech through the same slot and notta. fished some other water, came back and put a jig through there and wham... I'll give it another shot tomorrow for a bit - not sure what to throw at em though? I went through my arsenal of dry/skater flies....

thanks again - any ideas on what to toss?

[D3smartie]

IMO the fly doesnt matter very much. its all about the speed of the presentation and how much of a disturbance it is making. If i had to pick one fly it would probably be a riffle hitched steelhead caddis.
I have also usually done better on waking flies in the afternoon as opposed to the morning.

[Slow and Low]

I just can't do it. The confidence factor is not there. Maybe I will try the afternoon program versus fishing sink tips.

[dirtyCut]

one thing I forgot to ask was what you all use for floating the flies - is there one floatant better or far superior than others? was using gink the other day and it seemed like the fly still sunk after a bit...

thanks

[D3smartie]

I have used just about anything/everything you can think of... I dont think there is much of a differance between products.
i use Loon or Gink most of the time these days.
Your fly should not be sinking and even if it does, it should be pulled to the top by the tension of your line. I use the oil more for the leader than the fly...

[Slow and Low]

All this talk of skating flies reminds me of when I didn't think you could catch them on a dry line at all. So, today I went on a mission to skate some flies. For the life of me I could not get my muddlers to skate. The fly would hit the water floating and under tension it would sink. It almost looks like the front half of my scandi head is pulling it down. Any thoughts on this?

[SSPey]

use a floatant, riffle hitch it, and the muddler should wake under tension. I tie my waking muddlers with oversized heads. This lets them wake better, and they'll also float on a dead drift when needed

the pointy bullet shaped head typical of commercially tied muddlers isn't my favorite for waking, as it lets the fly slide under the water too easily. Also, they can be tied kinda gnarly to wake even better. All those fibers catch the water and cause resistance

when hitching a muddler, I like the hitch to come out from under the fly, not the side as is usually recommended. This covers contingencies of fishing river left vs right, and works just fine for waking. Also, if the spun deer hair head is small, hitch behind it - and if the spun head is large, hitch in the middle of it

[D3smartie]

I usually riffle hitch my muddlers and like SSpey said, the commercially tied ones are tough because of the wedge heads. I like my muddler heads to be large and not trimmed.
To make it easy on yourself you guys should try a little wog or something with a foam back to start out with.

S and L - werent you part of a swap where I had a little skater in there?

[Grantspastor]

Bill McMillan's Grease Liner is a good waking fly. It has a flared-up head. it also helps to use light hooks with a turned-up eye, rather than a turned-down eye

[dirtyCut]

well - one other day at it and notta. not gonna give up though, i love tossin dry bugs. never have done it for anything more than planter trout over east, but doin this on our coastal streams is pure heaven - minus a hookup!

i'll keep at it, it'll happen one day!

mark

[Patrick L]

Just a suggestion, you might want to try a small normal swinging fly just behind the waker.

[Slow and Low]

I got one to explode after one last wekend. The problem is he missed the fly. Bummer. I tried several other flies in the general area and nothing. Leads me to believe that had I been fishing a traditional wet fly I would have landed a nice fish. I'll keep trying.

[D3smartie]

you likely would have got him with the swung wet, but i am suprised he didnt come back to a wet or the same presentation of a dry.

[crobarr]

keep some sequins with you. put 1 on the leader ahead of your fly and it will stay up. you can almost float a coneheaded bunny leech that way.

[Smalma]

Kleancut -
Be careful steelhead on top can be adicted in a big way. While certainly no expert here is my take on some of your questions.

Like Rob I like a leader that is a little shorter than my rod. I dislike my fly line/leader splice going back and forth through the tip top while landing fish.

I typcially use either 6# or 8# maxima UG for leader tippets matching the leader size to the fly and rod used. Most of the skating I have do has been with 5 and 7 weight rods depending on the size of the water and flies fished.

While I don't think that the fly pattern is critical it is important to fish patterns you have confidence in. In addition I have found that some fish have difference preferences. I always like to fish with two or three patterns doped and ready to go. If I have a fish refuse a fly (a player) and it will not come back I typcially rest the fish and show it another pattern changing profile/color/size.

I found that traveling fish are much more willing to come to the top than fish that have been holding for a period. While I have taken fish from as little as less than a foot of water to as much as 15 feet deep the most consistent water has been that 3 to 5 foot stuff. I like the riffle chop at the top of the pool and the section that flattens out with a laminar flows. One common mistake I see folks make is on large water they water too deep. Those actively traveling fish will often move in relatively shallow water. On a lot of water wading deeper than mid-thigh is too deep.

The key to successful skating fishing is to fish the fly on tension. It is that tension that keeps the fly on the surface and creates the waking effect. Yes that fly design can aid in those function but a sparsely tied fly with little hackle can be made to skate with the proper angle of attack and fishing it on immediate tension.

Your goal should be to have the fly to wake across the current/river as SLOWLY as possible while distrubing the surface of the water. You really want to avoid the situation where a J is created in your line that causes the fly to whip across the surface. Rather cast downstream at enough of an angle that an immediately upstream mend will prevent that J from forming. Deeping on the water that can be casts that are nearly straight across to ones that are only 30 degrees from the shoreline. You will find that the line control you learn while skating on top (you can see how the fly reacts to each mend and change of attack) will transfer to your classic fly on the swing fishing.

Perhaps the most difficult aspect of consistently taking fish on waking flies is controlling your reflexes when the fish takes the fly. You will over time have takes that vary from the fly being replaced by a bubble to the classic head to tail rise to a violent explosion to even the case of the fish completely clearing the water and taking the fly on the way down. As suggest the best strategy to resist striking the fish until you feel its weight. I like to drop the rod tip and allow the fish to turn before raising the rod - fine wires help immensely with hook sets. By far the most difficult takes to hook are those straight downstream of your position. Here pausing to give the fish a chance to turn and sweeping your rod tip towards the bank is my best suggestion.

If you can resist setting the hook on those false rises the fish will often return on the same cast - have had fish "boil" at the fly as many as 5 times on a single cast before hooking it.

If you are not anal about getting the fish to poke its nose through the surface film to take your fly (and I am) and fish that shows interest in your waking fly but will not take often will readily accept a low water pattern fished grease line just below the surface..

Welcome to the surface game! Not only is extremely adictive it can be the best way to encounter a fish or two on the fly much of the summer and fall.

Tight lines
curt

[dirtyCut]

very good read curt - thanks for the advice, alot to re-read! hope to get out this week again - might even get a couple days to try. i'll let ya know how it goes. i'll be trimming down my leaders...

[D3smartie]

The key to successful skating fishing is to fish the fly on tension. It is that tension that keeps the fly on the surface and creates the waking effect. Yes that fly design can aid in those function but a sparsely tied fly with little hackle can be made to skate with the proper angle of attack and fishing it on immediate tension.

Your goal should be to have the fly to wake across the current/river as SLOWLY as possible while distrubing the surface of the water. You really want to avoid the situation where a J is created in your line that causes the fly to whip across the surface. Rather cast downstream at enough of an angle that an immediately upstream mend will prevent that J from forming. Deeping on the water that can be casts that are nearly straight across to ones that are only 30 degrees from the shoreline. You will find that the line control you learn while skating on top (you can see how the fly reacts to each mend and change of attack) will transfer to your classic fly on the swing fishing.


:yeahthat:
well put Curt.