Perfection loop and more

[fura]

Hello all: I'm a new member, though I've been lurking for a while and have greatly enjoyed and benefited from the discussions which occur here. I'm also a relatively new fly fisher, at least with respect to my expertise, but I've been visited by some vision of taking advantage of the fact that I live near to water inhabited by fish that are famous the world over, and have committed to interrupting, however briefly, the movement of SRC and anything else that wishes to ingest my lures in the forthcoming raining months. I am aware that custom dictates that I offer up a story upon my first post, and try as I might I can’t come up with one of any interest that has myself as the lead role, so I’ll use my long-suffering wife as the subject (again). Prior to her agreeing to marry me (and this should remain an important factoid) I took her backpacking/fishing in the Sierra wilderness (she’s the type that thinks roughing it is having the ladies’ room at Needless Markup more than 30 yards away from the makeup counter). After a pleasant cross-country hike during which she was bitten by approximately 90 mosquitoes while I had one paltry nibble we decided to camp by a nice, cold (and this should remain an important factoid) alpine lake. I set her up with a spin-casting rod and a lure (remember, she hung out at Nordstrom’s) while I went off to set up the tent. Whilst setting up I remember hearing some commotion, but kept to my task so that shelter would be available before nightfall. Upon re-emerging, I learned that future wife (and this should remain an important factoid) had cast off the top half of the spinning rod, and had come to the conclusion that this piece of equipment was lost forever unless it was retrieved in person (the concept of pulling in the line, to the point where the large lure would lodge in the terminal eyelet, apparently not occurring to my Ph.D.-wielding, potential future bride). Not one to gloss over the technicalities, my bride-to-be promptly stripped naked and dove into the aforementioned ice-cold lake to pick up the terminal end of the $8 spinning rod, much to the enjoyment of the dozen or so men trolling said lake by canoe within easy visual contact. ‘Course, upon my return, I received Hell for … well, I don’t exactly know what I did wrong, but I’m sure that I did it. Needless to say that’s the last time we’ve been backpacking/fishing/nakedforthatmatter, but I can assure you that for 13 of us on that day in the Sierra, fishing never looked so good.

After all that, I have a pretty mundane question. I’m recently enamored of the change-the-leader-quickly idea of using a butt-end section of mono with a perfection loop in it, but after sticking some pretty thick mono on the ends of some fly lines with loops on them I have some significant doubts about these structures moving through the guides on the rods without making things come to a full stop. The question, which is a multi-parter, is this: 1) Do you all use these loops to connect your lines to your leaders? 2) If so, do they hang up in your guides? 3) if all of the above are answered in the affirmative, how do you deal with the hang-ups? Pliobond? Head cement? Prayer? Profanity?

Advice as to any and all of the above problems (esp. the naked wife stuff) would be greatly appreciated, and I am delighted to make the acquaintance of all the fishers inhabiting these bandwidths.

[Skunked]

I recently started using the loop to loop line and leader connection and have found it goes through the guides pretty well, definitely better than a nail knot. I am using fly lines that come with a welded loop by the way.

Sadly I cannot help you with the other problem, bottle of wine maybe?:wink:

[GraphiteZen]

The Albright Knot is what you need to use. :flowered:

http://www.killroys.com/knots/albright.htm

[GraphiteZen]

Oh and I forgot to mention that I remember that day on the lake very well. If you didn't get any pictures I can PM you some. I just need to call my buddy Ted first. :D

[cphatts]

I use perfection loops all the time and don't seem to have any issues with the loop going through the guides. The only time I use any cement or glue is when creatiing a perfection loop on the butt section of my steelhead leaders.... but its probably unecessary.

[Slow and Low]

I go loop to loop as well. It is not as slick as a nail knot or albright knot but works well enough. Make sure there is a nice figure eight when you marry the two loops. another way of doing it is a nail or albright know and 2-3 fet of mono and just tie a surgeon or blood knot.

Nice story, wish I could have been there.

[Patrick L]

Have you tried a Loop Connector. I've had good luck with some I bought at a fly shop. Just for the picture, I attached a link to some Loop Connectors from Cabelas.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/standard-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20431-cat20526&rid=&indexId=cat20526&navAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=1&parentType=index&parentId=cat20526&id=0003291

[fura]

Have you tried a Loop Connector. I've had good luck with some I bought at a fly shop. Just for the picture, I attached a link to some Loop Connectors from Cabelas.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/standard-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20431-cat20526&rid=&indexId=cat20526&navAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=1&parentType=index&parentId=cat20526&id=0003291

Thanks to all for the replies, and it appears that it will definitely be worth my trying to throw these loops through the guides and see what happens (haven't had the chance yet). I especially "hear" the idea about store-bought loops, as my assumption is that these will have little/no knot at all -- I guess my initial hesitation about trying these out had more to do with doing things the "old-fashioned way" than anything else. Re the wife story, I appreciate the offer of the pics, but will put off having to explain them to our kids for as long as I can!

[daveg]

Forget about the Loop connectore. I tried them about 6 or 7 years ago and watched leader, fly and indicator float away several times, threw them away.:meme:

[gustav]

For those of you looking for a great resource for Knots; look up Grogs fishing knots. This site has just about every knot you can think of; and it slowly shows you how to tie it. Big bonus for me. This is where I learned to tie the PL.

[Snoslyder]

I began fly fishing about 4 years ago and have always fished with a loop to loop setup. I connect a 8"-10" section of 25lb mono to the fly line via an albright not and one drop of super glue that I carry in my vest for all sorts of applicatins. Tie a perfection loop on the other end and then loop to loop my tapered leader. The 25lb mono really helps turn the line/fly over well. I rarely pull the loop to loop portion in through my guides unless I am breaking down my rod or traveling from site to site. I simply run a 7-8 foot tapered leader with the 8-10" butt section on a 9ft rod. Even when I secure the fly to the cork or retainer loop just above the cork, most of the butt and leader are still outside the top most guide.

[fura]

I began fly fishing about 4 years ago and have always fished with a loop to loop setup. I connect a 8"-10" section of 25lb mono to the fly line via an albright not and one drop of super glue that I carry in my vest for all sorts of applicatins. Tie a perfection loop on the other end and then loop to loop my tapered leader. The 25lb mono really helps turn the line/fly over well. I rarely pull the loop to loop portion in through my guides unless I am breaking down my rod or traveling from site to site. I simply run a 7-8 foot tapered leader with the 8-10" butt section on a 9ft rod. Even when I secure the fly to the cork or retainer loop just above the cork, most of the butt and leader are still outside the top most guide.

This is exactly what I was hoping would be the case in terms of the logistics of this system, and I too have a 9' rod with similar leader lengths. Very encouraging, and thanks very much!

[TallFlyGuy]

Loops are great. I use loops on pretty much everything I fish. I have also had the chance to test and play with all sorts of loop knots.

The weakest knot is the perfection loop, but it is easy to tie and makes a nice simple loop.

The strongest knot I have tested is actually the plain jane surgeons loop knot. The bad thing about this knot is.... it is a huge knot in comparison to the other knots, it takes a bit more line, and you can't tie up a real small loop real fast.

The second strongest loop knot that is quit fun to tie is a knot called the King sling. It was shown to me by Marty Shepard. We actually tested it right there on the river. he tied the king sling on one side, I tied my knot on the other side, and we pulled, and pulled, when it finally snapped, my knot broke. The only bad thing about this knot is it takes up a bunch of line to tie.

I have settled on a loop knot that is easy to tie and very strong. I have not found it in to many places. It is stronger than the Lefty Kreh knot, but very similar and actually easier to tie.

http://www.alaskaflyfishingonline.com/tips/tip1clinchknot.html

There you go. I use it to connect leader to my tips, and on my flies when a loop is needed.

If you are useing a floating line, I just nail knot the leader to the line. There is an article out there that shows you how to tie a nail knot without the nail, it is pretty neat.

Justin

[fura]

Loops are great. I use loops on pretty much everything I fish. I have also had the chance to test and play with all sorts of loop knots.

The weakest knot is the perfection loop, but it is easy to tie and makes a nice simple loop.

The strongest knot I have tested is actually the plain jane surgeons loop knot. The bad thing about this knot is.... it is a huge knot in comparison to the other knots, it takes a bit more line, and you can't tie up a real small loop real fast.

The second strongest loop knot that is quit fun to tie is a knot called the King sling. It was shown to me by Marty Shepard. We actually tested it right there on the river. he tied the king sling on one side, I tied my knot on the other side, and we pulled, and pulled, when it finally snapped, my knot broke. The only bad thing about this knot is it takes up a bunch of line to tie.

I have settled on a loop knot that is easy to tie and very strong. I have not found it in to many places. It is stronger than the Lefty Kreh knot, but very similar and actually easier to tie.

http://www.alaskaflyfishingonline.com/tips/tip1clinchknot.html

There you go. I use it to connect leader to my tips, and on my flies when a loop is needed.

If you are useing a floating line, I just nail knot the leader to the line. There is an article out there that shows you how to tie a nail knot without the nail, it is pretty neat.

Justin

I'll definitely check out the site, and stumbled upon the "Grog" site by chance a few days ago (mentioned in an earlier post). I hit the upper Wilson on Saturday and was surprised to latch onto a few of what I believe were cutthroats (not the bright red gash I've seen on cutts in the Sierra, but they didn't have nearly the spots or coloration of rainbows); the last one was a pretty decent size (maybe 14") and fought pretty darn hard for 3-4 min before he threw the #16 hook. Overall one whale of a time for my first trip to the coastal water. I had some difficulty with my loop-to-loops, including a couple of hang-ups where my tippet got caught in the perfection knots, but at least during the battle with the 14" guy they went through the guides w/o hanging up (I had him close when he headed for Tilamook). Thanks again.