Bait fish found in Diamind Lake !!!

[sparse gray hackle]

ODFW reports that bait fish have been found in diamond Lake. State fish biologists found 11 shiners in Diamond Lake and one unknown fish in a routine trap net at the summer home area. Traps are set yearly to monitor fish populations. Biologists don't know how the Shiners got into the lake. We're continuing investigating by electro-shocking next week and setting additional traps in August:(.

[Tony1831]

After the whole tui chub problem you'd think anglers would have a bit more respect for the lake, guess not. Very sad to see this happening again.

[Tulley]

Why is it just this one lake that people seem to let things go in?

[joemomma]

Geeze.........one of these days the state is going to say enough is enough and let it go! It would be nice if somebody would get caught doing this!:berry:

[fish-on-bend]

Its not just Diamond---- bass, crappie, bluegill in Crane, bass, crappie in Wickiup, goldfish in Mann lake, bass in Davis, bass, bluegill, pike in Davis in Portola CA. That one was rotenened and the pike are back. I'm sure I'm forgetting more than a few. Not sure why people do it.:shrug::anyone:

[lake creek charlie]

If those EXPENSIVE cabins werent on diamond they wouldnt spend HUNDREDS of millions of dollars on this. To name the lakes with warm water fish not in them would be easier, and they mare the lakes that freeze completely freeze and the%$^&^&&*&^% only puyt little bass in

[lor]

Why is it just this one lake that people seem to let things go in?
Is it always people, can't some birds transport fish eggs also????

[spottedhawk36]

what a bunch of idots if they can't respect the lake stay out!!!!

[vudo]

Its not just Diamond---- bass, crappie, bluegill in Crane, bass, crappie in Wickiup, goldfish in Mann lake, bass in Davis, bass, bluegill, pike in Davis in Portola CA. That one was rotenened and the pike are back. I'm sure I'm forgetting more than a few. Not sure why people do it.:shrug::anyone:

Idiot! that can't stand watching people have fun and relax.

[Eagleclaw]

:mad:geeze can't people just follow the rules... the lake finally is getting back and now this:mad:

[lake creek charlie]

F&G has spent a lot of money on this and people have retired on this problem.... employment for f&g

[marshworm]

If we are going to throw the " who would do this" around, don't forget the fish derby's! With butt loads of cash and prizes available they could "unknowingly" be the source for this type of introduction?
I do find it interesting that it was not the Tui chub that was found but something else.
Good thing is they have found them early.

[1bigfish]

Its not just Diamond---- bass, crappie, bluegill in Crane, bass, crappie in Wickiup, goldfish in Mann lake, bass in Davis, bass, bluegill, pike in Davis in Portola CA. That one was rotenened and the pike are back. I'm sure I'm forgetting more than a few. Not sure why people do it.:shrug::anyone:

I think they are two different problems.

The bass, crappie, bluegill, pike, perch and so on are people who are intentionally planting so they can fish for the type of fish they want to catch(or the only fish they know how to catch). For these people life is jail, if caught, sounds good to me.

The goldfish, shiners, tui chub and so on are usually bait left off from people who can only catch fish by breaking the law. For these people life in jail, if caught, also sounds good to me.

Two different problems but the same result. my:twocents:

[StickFish]

I think I get it now. I have a hard time believing that sportsmen are doing this. You have a collision at this lake. Folks with expensive homes and a view. All those boats fishing and enjoying their view - why for a couple bucks in bait fish I can drive them all away. Notice the bait fish were trapped by the summer homes.

Get the Oregon Justice Department hooked up to this and audit every one of the summer home owners and users especially for purchases at bait at online retailers.

Everyone on the water is enjoying that lake the way it should be, everyone I talked to was so happy to have it back - there is no way this is a sportsman/women :noway:

[Two Fister]

Personally I don't think it has anything to do with the homes. If anyone had an interest in keeping the fish growing it's the folks with those houses. They are worth a lot more (even though they are on public land) if the lake is nationally recognized as an amazing fishery. They are worthless if the lake is having toxic algae blooms and is full of invasive species.

Shiners are a favorite bait of folks back east and in the midwest. You can walk into almost any bait shop there and buy a bucket of them. A good friend of mine in Medford nearly got into a fist fight with his hillybilly neighbor after his neighbor tried to impress him with his super secret shiner technique. The neighbor dipnets them from any of the lakes in the Medford area infested with shiners, of which there are apparently many.

I'd bet it was someone who did care not about, nor understand, the consequences of introducing trash fish into Diamond Lake. They've always fished with shiners and they're not going to let the government tell them what to do. I'd be very suspicious of the derbys as well. Too much temptation to cheat when cash is involved.

Unfortunately, catching it early isn't going to make much diffference.

[deeptrout]

Am I the only one that isn't surprised by all this? all rules are broken, thats a given. The question is how to enforce the rule or make it so bad to get caught that no one will ever even consider breaking it. I think anyone caught breaking game rules should be forced to wear an elk costume over by coos bay for awhile. that doesn't seem like too bad a punishment, lots of fresh air, great scenery, might get to meet a fellow lawbreaker or two, whats wrong with that?

[Fisherdaddy]

I am not advocating the use or release of baifish in any way; but will shiners cause the same problem as the chub? Just curious.

[Chrome Bumper]

Maybe the rotenone missed them.

[jfa686]

they netted the whole lake at low levels...ya think they would of seen one...unsportsman like conduct...plain and simple. some people go thru life lying and cheating. fisherman i've found are no differant

[marshworm]

The last two colapses of the fishery at Diamond were caused by a total consumption of the insect life by an invasive species. In plain talk they ate themsleves and the rainbows out of house and home. So to answer your question yes it could happen. The question is will this particular species of fish multiply fast enough to upset the ecosystem in Diamond as did the chubs?
Two questions I have asked the ODFW with no answer as of yet. When was the first chub found in the lake this last time? And did they also rotenone Silent Creek from it's headwaters to the lake?
I have no doubt that the private homeowners DO NOT want this to happen.
The current law on using live bait where prohibited does not have enough teeth in it to be a deterent to those that do this.

[Joe C]

I think there are a lot of people who are just plain ignorant about the dangers (and taxpayer costs) associated with invasive species.

I remember seeing someone get confronted one time when he was putting a couple crawfish into a slough. He yelled at the guy and basically said "that's water, of course that's where he belongs"

I think education would go a looooong way.

[1bigfish]

Am I the only one that isn't surprised by all this? all rules are broken, thats a given. The question is how to enforce the rule or make it so bad to get caught that no one will ever even consider breaking it. I think anyone caught breaking game rules should be forced to wear an elk costume over by coos bay for awhile. that doesn't seem like too bad a punishment, lots of fresh air, great scenery, might get to meet a fellow lawbreaker or two, whats wrong with that?

I take back my life in jail comment. I like you idea better.:D

[fishnlady]

According to the article I read from ODFW the Golden Shiners were in Diamond Lake for years before the rotenone treatment. You have to wonder whether some shiners or their eggs might have also been in the stream that comes into the lake, and missed the poisoning. An article I read about this fish says that a female will lay 10,000-20,000 eggs, with 4-5 spawning peaks in one season. :eek: An adult fish is 3"-8", with some reaching 12". They feed on small fish, zooplankton, mollusks, & algae. Sounds bad to me. :(

[Okie]

I believe it is possible that the rotnene was not completly succesfull. That some fish survived and was not killed. Diamoned lake is a big lake. Rotenene may not get into every part of the lake so some fish were not killed and this would be the reason they are back. Without catching some one using live bait fishing at Diamond lake, accusing fishermen of this is wrong, unless you have positive proof and have seen it done at Diamond lake.

Good Luck

[Fishtail]

This is very disappointing news after having fished the lake last week and seeing the lake at what I thought was its best in many years. I think there has been some valid points made concerning the possibilities as to how these trash fish were reintroduced. I think ODFW will have to look at all the possibilities without drawing any immediate conclusions.

I think the Service Creek infestation is a real possibility as well as residual fish from the lake poisoning in 06. It will be interestig to see what the biologists have to say about the species found and if it existed prior to treatment. With a lot of luck these new rainbows will feast on the trash fish for a short period time and no harm will come from these pests.:twocents:

[fish-on-bend]

I have a question. Has the rotenene ever been 100% successful. The only lakes I've heard of it being used in have somehow allowed the intended target species to reappear.:anyone:

[lake creek charlie]

The big houses are the reason f&g are spending our money there. There are at least 3 dozen lakes that have the same problem but are left alone.........

[stillwater97]

I have a question. Has the rotenene ever been 100% successful. The only lakes I've heard of it being used in have somehow allowed the intended target species to reappear.:anyone:


I'd like to find that out as well.

I know its worked 100% on lakes that weren't fed by creeks/rivers.

This brings up a good point.




For what its worth, lets not get too upset on this just yet. Shiners aren't the same thing as tui chub. The trout could look at the shiners as food..

I know that Klamath Lake has shiners in it and the trout love them.


MB

[steelie817]

The big houses are the reason f&g are spending our money there. There are at least 3 dozen lakes that have the same problem but are left alone.........

Money get's spent on Diamond because it has been a tremendously productive fishery. There's no conspiracy going on.

[Two Fister]

I'd like to find that out as well.

I know its worked 100% on lakes that weren't fed by creeks/rivers.

This brings up a good point.




For what its worth, lets not get too upset on this just yet. Shiners aren't the same thing as tui chub. The trout could look at the shiners as food..

I know that Klamath Lake has shiners in it and the trout love them.


MB

Klamath strain fish are piscivourous (fish eaters) while many other strains of rainbows are less so. That's why the Tui Chubs, which are native in Klamath Lake, haven't gotten out of control. The two species evolved together.

ODFW has introduced some sterile Klamath strain fish into Diamond Lake in case there are chubs left after the treatment. They should gobble them up. They won't likely wipe them out but may keep them in check.

Rotenone can be 100% effective, but the drawback is that it isn't as effective in deeper colder water. That shouldn't be a problem in Diamond lake as it's pretty shallow. It kills everything (bugs, frogs, etc.) in the lake. The tributaries were also treated. The dosing calculations are pretty simple and the application is as well, especially in a contained body of water like Diamond Lake. Once the lake is drawn down there is no outlet until the lake refills.

Personally, I have to think that this stems from reintroduction. At Lake Davis (NoCal) Cal F&W suspects local residents with reintroducing Northern Pike as there was a very vocal local presence that wanted to keep them. Too many people like to fish with live bait and the state doesn't have adequate penalties/enforcement to prevent it.

Diamond Lake was a signature fishery for the state. There are certainly other fisheries I would like to see treated to remove exotic species. That being said, I don't think the houses on the lake had anything to do with it being chosen for treatment. There are lots of other lakes with houses that also need treatment.

[JECulver]

Plant sterile tiger trout to control the shiners. Say 10,000 @10". What do you think?

Tiger Trout, a hybrid cross between a male Brown Trout (http://www.utahfishinginfo.com/utahfish/browntrout.php) and a female Brook Trout (http://www.utahfishinginfo.com/utahfish/brooktrout.php), has a unique, dark maze-like pattern all over a brownish, gray body. The belly is yellowish orange as are the pectoral, pelvic and anal fins. The tail fin is square. Tiger trout are quite piscivorous (fish eaters) from an early age. They seem to be more willing to hunt for prey in shallower waters than many other trout subspecies are

[JD77]

This may not be as bad as we fear. Perhaps a biologist can help, but I think that the Shiner may be a fish that has been in Diamond for a long time. It doesn't answer how it apparently survived the Rotatone (or worse if it was introduced. Big fish have been pretty easy to catch this year so I don't know why they would need live bait).

Many lakes have some baitfish in them without catastrophic problems. Let us hope this is a fluke, a fish we need not worry about in the first place, a fish the trout can keep in check... Goodness knows it would be a real loss to not have Diamond Lake again.

[CWOregon]

Plant sterile tiger trout to control the shiners. Say 10,000 @10". What do you think?

Tiger Trout, a hybrid cross between a male Brown Trout (http://www.utahfishinginfo.com/utahfish/browntrout.php) and a female Brook Trout (http://www.utahfishinginfo.com/utahfish/brooktrout.php), has a unique, dark maze-like pattern all over a brownish, gray body. The belly is yellowish orange as are the pectoral, pelvic and anal fins. The tail fin is square. Tiger trout are quite piscivorous (fish eaters) from an early age. They seem to be more willing to hunt for prey in shallower waters than many other trout subspecies are

I am all for some type of predatory trout being put in the lake. Maybe if it is done early they will gobble up the majority of the shiners in a hurry. Also, if these fish are sterile they should not make any impact on the trout that are already thriving in the lake. They would be fun to catch as well I am sure.

[Two Fister]

I am all for some type of predatory trout being put in the lake. Maybe if it is done early they will gobble up the majority of the shiners in a hurry. Also, if these fish are sterile they should not make any impact on the trout that are already thriving in the lake. They would be fun to catch as well I am sure.

Already done last year. From the ODFW website on April 23, 2007:

The catchable-sized trout range from eight to 12 inches and include a mix of 2,000 predacious trout. Later this spring, ODFW also will stock 100,000 Klamath Falls fingerlings and 2,000 trophy-sized trout being raised at Rock Creek Hatchery.

TF

[domo-kun]

The thought that other people would release fish again just makes me sick. It's so unbelievably stupid and selfish.

That being said, if the shiners don't take over the lake like the chubs, it could be a good thing. Piscivorous trout will grow, much, much bigger than trout that eat purely insects and zooplankton. It takes an extreme amount of aquatic insects to grow trophy trout (craine prairie in it's heyday) and diamond lake may very well have this again with less trash fish. If ODFW plants the correct fish to keep the balance now, such as williamson and/or eagle lake strain, it could make the fishery even better. It sounds like they planned for this from what I've read.

Somehow I doubt we'll be that lucky and the fish will take over the lake, but here's hoping.

[TheCamel]

Piscivorous trout will grow, much, much bigger than trout that eat purely insects and zooplankton. It takes an extreme amount of aquatic insects to grow trophy trout

I had no issues with the size of the trout I caught last Sunday at Diamond Lake, and the those fish only had insects in their stomach. By the way, I was fly fishing. You don't need bait!
http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/medium/Diamond_Lake_Trout_7-20-08.JPG

[bad habit]

i dont know much about the chemical used 4 the kill off..are these rainbows safe 2 eat?? is there a 100% guarentee ..where do gold shiners normally come from? i am an angler, a trout angler , a bass angler. salmon and sturgeon once in awhile......although i do like the fact that i can go 2 craine prarie and catch lunker bass and beutifal trout in the same day.... i also agree that unless done naturally no one should alter any ecosystem..and craine prarie trout fishing has suffered..

[Jedcraft]

Like most of you I have thought long & hard about this. One thing I've noticed is my boat trailer. I have an aluminum NR trailer and it holds ALOT of water. While I'm not much for fishing one lake then pulling out and moving to another the same day I do hear of alot of folks that do.
Also is there any way for them to get there by swimming up stream?

[Two Fister]

i dont know much about the chemical used 4 the kill off..are these rainbows safe 2 eat??

Here's a bit of wikipedia info on rotenone:

It is commonly used in powdered or emulsified liquid form in fisheries management to remove unwanted fish species[3] (such as to eradicate exotic fish from their non-native habitats). People have been known to catch fish by extracting rotenone from plants and releasing it into water. The fish then come to the surface and are easily caught. The initial such usage was by various indigenous tribes[4] who simply smashed the roots. Fish caught in this manner can be eaten by humans because rotenone is very poorly absorbed by the gastrointestinal tract, whereas it is lethal to fish because it readily enters the blood stream of the fish though the gills.

Watched one episode of Man vs. Wild where Bear used rotenone from local plants to stun fish so that he could eat them. I can't remember if he cooked them or not....

Non-native species shouldn't be in Oregon waters. Period. To allow some illegal introductions to gain protected status (bass, walleyes, perch, etc.) only encourages people to spread them around. Montana absolutely torches anyone caught illegally stocking fish. In some cases they will close the fishery to everyone until it has been treated. As such, there is nothing to gain by illegally stocking non-native species as it becomes illegal to fish that water until it has been restored. If Oregon did something like that 30 years ago, we'd still have some of the best stillwater trout fishing in the lower 48.

No way for gold shiners to swim up into the lake. They are a bait fish, plain and simple. Some idiot used them for bait and dumped his bait bucket. IMHO, every other potential option is really reaching.
TF

[TheCamel]

i dont know much about the chemical used 4 the kill off..are these rainbows safe 2 eat??

Rotenone = The compound breaks down when exposed to sunlight and usually has a short lifetime of six days in the environment. In water rotenone may last six months. Diamond Lake was treated in the September of 2006, and testing by ODFW found "non-detectable" levels of Rotenone on 10/31/2006.

[OutdoorBum]

I subscribe to the fish derby theory...through the years I've known "friends of friends" that have bragged about using live bait to catch fish during tournaments. These guys are hunters as well and give all sportsmen/women a bad name.

[newbergfishjunkie]

I was wondering who's selling the bait fish. Enforcement should maybe start there.

[Two Fister]

I was wondering who's selling the bait fish. Enforcement should maybe start there.

From the thread running on the main board...

Unfortunately there are documented populations of Golden Shiners in numerous lakes on either side of the Cascades.

...a good friend of mine in Medford nearly got in a fist fight with his drunk hillbilly neighbor after the neighbor showed him his secret shiner technique for catching big trout. He simply cruised into the shallows of one of the lakes in the Medford area where the shiners tend to school when the water warms, scoops a few net fulls up and puts them in the livewell of his boat. He then transported them around the lake with him or to whatever lake he was planning on fishing next. He just ran the livewell on a closed loop and added some water now and then. Claimed they'd last a couple of days in the livewell if it wasn't too hot. My friend turned him in to OSP, but they didn't have enough to go on as the guy just denied it.

Some people just don't give a damn. Plain and simple.

When ODFW doesn't respond to illegal introductions how can they expect to control them?

[TTFishon]

I think in the case of Diamond Lake it's just plain ignorance or people not caring at all being that it's a baitfish problem. Other lakes I think it's a matter of preferance. Crane,Wickiup, and Davis for instance all have warm water fish in them now. Rainbows are native but brown and brookies are not, yet the trout fisherman complain about bass not being a native fish. That's why I think it's a matter of preferance.

[Jflyer]

I think in the case of Diamond Lake it's just plain ignorance or people not caring at all being that it's a baitfish problem. Other lakes I think it's a matter of preferance. Crane,Wickiup, and Davis for instance all have warm water fish in them now. Rainbows are native but brown and brookies are not, yet the trout fisherman complain about bass not being a native fish. That's why I think it's a matter of preferance.

The problem is that someone decided to illegally plant fish in lakes they did not belong in. the browns and brook trout were raised in state hatcheries and planted by ODFW, not someone who selfishly chose to do it on their own. Crane Prairie is no longer the trophy lake that it was. Anyone who is caught using baitfish or transplanting should permanently lose their fishing privileges.

[Dullhook]

Posted a thread containing an article and video on increased problems with Tui Chubs at Lemolo Res. It's on the main board if anyone is interested.