OB vs Jet Question... [Archive]

Hullk

06-02-2008, 11:29 PM

I'm in the process of buying my first boat and have it narrowed down to Thunder Jet and North River, I plan to take a look at Northwest Jet this weekend. I have mostly been around OBs or stern drives so have no expirence with jets at all.

I did a search and read posts but still somewhat confused on which one I want. So I thought I would list out what I plan to do with the boat in hopes to get some responses/insight that might help point me in the direction best for me.

The boat size will be around 21'-22' and currently looking at the Alexis and Seahawk.

I will probably be in deep water more often than shallow skinny water and I'm not too sure about the white water. Right now I can honestly say I don't trust my boating abilities to handle something too crazy. This doesn't mean I couldn't work my way up to it but I don't plan to beat up my new 40k+ boat anytime soon. Is there a lot of places I could only go with a jet that a noob could handle?

The plan is to use the boat all year around for salmon, sturgeon, trout, steelhead, and crabbing...and just about anything else that comes up. I wouldn't mind trying some halibut fishing but don't you have to go out about 30 miles or so? I would imagine the farther you go out and the more chop you see the OB would be the better choice.

I also plan on using it for wakeboarding and tubing on lake camping trips in the summer.

OB:
quieter
fuel efficent
more room
higher top end speed
easier to trim in chop

Jet:
great for shallow/skinny
quick and easy turnarounds
louder
cheaper to replace motor
great for pulling wakeboarders
heater/defroster

Thanks in advance for any help...

BalouSC

06-03-2008, 01:05 AM

First off, the following is my opinion!!!

21 to 22 feet is awefully big to be running up rivers. Jets are very inefficient but if you do plan on taking it up a shallow river, you have no choice but to go with a jet. For everything else, you want an outboard on an offshore plate. All that extra room is nice!! In fact two outboards would be best in case one goes down crossing the bar. Hey we can all dream can't we? As far as watersports, an inboard/outboard is best for this. The outboard would have the best all around use in my opinion.
I own a 22' Northwest Jet Signature with a Mercruiser and Bravo I outdrive (thats right, it's a prop). I bought it from someone hear on Ifish as a matter of fact. It gets great fuel economy but is way to big to go up rivers if it had a pump. I hoped it would be a perfect all around boat. I wouldn't trade it for nothing as it's as close to perfect as they get. However, I would like dual outboards for crossing the bar and ocean safety. It also isn't the best wakeboard boat as it puts up quite the wake. Experienced people love it! Those are the only things I don't like about it. It's awesome for pulling tubes!! I can run a long time on one tank of gas when we are playing at the lake. I do see myself with a Crownline eventually to go with the NWJ. I know.....three boats (drift, NWJ, Crusier)!!!! Oh well, you can't have everything!!. By the way, I would recommend NWJ's to anyone! They are fantastic boats and even though I wasn't the original owner, the factory was great!! PM me if you want more info... Balou :twocents: :cheers:

BalouSC

06-03-2008, 01:08 AM

By the way, welcome to Ifish!! It is a custom of sorts to tell us a fishing story and a little bit about you so we can get to know you!! There is lots of very useful information here. Balou :applause:

RascallyRabbit

06-03-2008, 03:24 AM

Not sure about the TJ, but North River bottom thickness and width changes when you go from a 20' to a 21' hull. Also if you haven't checked out whats currently in stock in Portland and Roseburg for NR,you should. A quick check of their website shows that they have a Blue 2007 21x84 Seahawk still in stock in Roseburg, stock # F0144G607.

I personally like an open interior which is why I have a Scout. If I was going to go with a Seahawk I'd go with an outboard and keep the interior of the boat open for fun and games. Plus the new 4 strokes are so efficient, and fuel is not going down!

Steve/RR

RiverJohn

06-03-2008, 09:13 AM

If I was going to go with a Seahawk I'd go with an outboard and keep the interior of the boat open for fun and games. Plus the new 4 strokes are so efficient, and fuel is not going down!

Steve/RR

Ditto

I went with the Offshore bracket too.

Lots of space vs inboard model.

WaterDog

06-03-2008, 11:38 AM

RiverJohn

06-03-2008, 12:03 PM

98% of everyone on this site will tell you to go with a prop and they are probably right. All boats are a compromise. I will simply say with a jet, you have more opportunities and more water available to you.

My inboard "sled" is 23.5' and I've run the Clack, Santiam, and McKenzie. I've filled it with tuna and 10 days later I'm runing the whitewater of the Snake River in Hells Canyon. There is no perfect boat, but a prop cannot cover that much water. :twocents:

I agree with you ! providing one is going to hit the white water like the Clack. there is no replacing the capabilty of a jet. & They are cool.:D
I had a very hard choice to make myself.

Other side of the coin..

If limited to Ocean, Bays, Willamette, Columbia, and lakes a jet prop is a big waste of fuel and fish fighting space imo.

Pickles

06-03-2008, 12:26 PM

The other nice thing about a jet is if you are not familiar with an area of water, your odds of being beached on a sandbar are much lower! :)

Nomad_Greg

06-03-2008, 01:31 PM

If this is your first boat like you say, I would be looking used! Nothing hurts more than shelling out $40k+ only to bang it up from not knowing how to handle it. Look around at the used boats and see what you can find. Trust me, it hurts a lot less to buy a boat with a few scratches than put them in yourself.

Nomad

fishkisser

06-03-2008, 01:48 PM

If this is your first boat go with a prop ,it will be easier to learn to maneuver...
I own a 20 ft jet drive 11 degree hull and love it , but I've been driving boats for 40 years ...
I still have a time of it with the jet drive in the wind docking , and usually use the kicker motor ...:twocents:

WaterDog

06-03-2008, 02:09 PM

If limited to Ocean, Bays, Willamette, Columbia, and lakes a jet prop is a big waste of fuel and fish fighting space imo.

My 8.1L doesn't burn much more fuel than a 225+ hp 4stroke outboard. 11-12gph at cruise, 30mph, 6500lbs, I bet it's pretty close to the same plus I have 165 more HP. OR I could say it averages 9 to 10 gph and make it sound even better. :wink: I don't see it as waste of fuel. :flowered: My tub works fine in the ocean and has plenty of fish fighting space since I can walk all the way around the engine box. :cool:

Hullk mentioned he might want to do some river running so him getting a prop might not be what he needs. With the way fishing is going these days, if I can't fish, at least I can still run rivers and play in the whitewater which is sometimes a lot more fun. There are folks in area that would be willing to teach him how to run a jet and hopefully keep the dents to a minumum. :D

RiverJohn

06-03-2008, 03:23 PM

My 8.1L doesn't burn much more fuel than a 225+ hp 4stroke outboard. 11-12gph at cruise, 30mph, 6500lbs, I bet it's pretty close to the same plus I have 165 more HP. OR I could say it averages 9 to 10 gph and make it sound even better. :wink: I don't see it as waste of fuel. :flowered: My tub works fine in the ocean and has plenty of fish fighting space since I can walk all the way around the engine box. :cool:

Hullk mentioned he might want to do some river running so him getting a prop might not be what he needs. With the way fishing is going these days, if I can't fish, at least I can still run rivers and play in the whitewater which is sometimes a lot more fun. There are folks in area that would be willing to teach him how to run a jet and hopefully keep the dents to a minumum. :D

:excited: Perfect boat for you then !:applause:

I know and see many who have yet to take a jet equipped boat outside the frog water !!! Mercy mercy ! :passout:

No Fences

06-03-2008, 03:57 PM

RiverJohn

06-03-2008, 04:07 PM

I have a 2006 22' Intruder w/ 330hp Kodiak and for the most part love it. I bought this boat thinking I would be running the skinny water. Low and behold, I have been bitten by the salt bug.:D

Knowing what I know now, I would've probably gone with the offshore bracket and a 4stroke. Oh well, it still doesn't keep me off the big pond. I plan on chasing Halibut with it and TUNA will have to be close or I'll be looking for an open seat.

Just my:twocents:.

Rob,

Does your Intruder have the fresh water cooling ? (nice boats btw !)

Having the fresh water cooling/heater is a big plus for the ocean, my father in-law runs an inboard out of Brookings..its a nice set-up.

Like said earlier no one boat will have every ideal attribute for every single setting.

Hullk

06-04-2008, 09:35 AM

Thanks for all the replies and PMs. I'm not sure if this made my decision easier or harder, lol.

Chrome Bumper

06-04-2008, 01:51 PM

If you have an outboard on a jasck plate you can switch between jet and prop lower units and have it both ways. I like props.

OB1

06-04-2008, 03:15 PM

My first brand new boat was an 1989 20FT Duckworth Silverwing.
I took it up the Deschutes, North Santiam River to stayton island (pretty dumb) and in the ocean. Sold it 1995 for $2K less than I paid for it.
Jets are great for skinny water for sure

I now own a 2007 20FT Seahawk with a 150HP Honda prop, cannot believe the fuel milage this boat gets. I fish mainly the Columbia, Willamette and the Ocean. Ran over 80 miles last week fishing for halibut and got 4 mph.
This boat is easy on gas, better ride in rough water, quiter and easlier to trailer in wind. This is why I switched to a outboard prop boat.

SaksMoJet

06-05-2008, 12:54 PM

Thanks for all the replies and PMs. I'm not sure if this made my decision easier or harder, lol.

I went through this same thing back in Jan when I was looking for a boat....I ended up going with a Jet mainly because i wanted the option of running just about anywhere...I have yet to run skinny since I am not ready to beat up my hull, but that day will come anyway...Troybuz put it best, when he told me that you only have to tear off 1 lower end to wish you had a jet....SOLD, jet it was, and have no regrets. :D

Good luck with your search....I bet there are tons of barely used boats for sale out there...I'd start there..:twocents:

SaksMoJet

06-05-2008, 01:02 PM

Oh, one more thing....Take a look at Motion Marine if you haven't already. They build an outstanding boat and are great to work with. If you want a jet with out that engine taking up all your fishing space, take a look at the V8 Outback model or the Outback with the Sportjet...with the SJ the motor is completely outside the transom and with the V8 the motor and jet are pushed about 1 1/2 back.

Good Luck!

Salemsled

06-07-2008, 11:30 AM

Hullk,

I went through the same battle last year. For me the answer was JET.

I fish and drag my family around on a rope…LOL

The Jet has definitely been more “family oriented.” I live in Salem and I can run the Willamette all summer with no fear of dragging my outdrive through the gravel.
I have also discovered that having a jet has given me more piece of mind when taking the family boating. I have less concern when the kids are swimming around the back of the boat, and no longer worry about knees or toes being kicked into an Idle prop.
The issue about deck space has been resolved by going to a Highdeck. I have more storage than most outboard boats. Family and I have discovered boat camping and I can haul a bunch of camping gear that can be stored out of site.
As for the argument that getting fish in the boat is harder from a highdeck, get a Longer NET. Its actually easier to fight fish from the highdeck with multiple fishermen.

I run the boat in lakes, river, and “Big Blue”. The Jet works sweet in all three. The biggest deal is learning to drive, Drivers Ed all over again. Find a teacher,don’t try to reinvent the wheel. Its also a great excuse to get the boat out more.

As for who makes the best boat?
I believe most of the boat builders in the Pac NW do a pretty good job. A good indication is the fact that most everybody will tell you their boat mfg is best. The important thing is to “Find Your Boat.” Bells and whistles are nice, but attention should be paid to the primary components (hull design, Engine, Fit and Finish) Be Patient.

I chose to buy used so I could get more boat for the buck. As for warranty, I am the warranty. Working on the inboard engine is like working on my truck engine. I can get 75% of my motor parts from a NAPA store.

Lastly, I tow my boat farther than I drive my boat. I believe that an Inboard engine is easier on the boat structure when trailering, and it is a more centered load. This Makes it easier for trailer to handle varying weights.

The best boat is My boat, it just happens to be a 21’ Thunderjet Alexis Classic this year.

Easy Does It
In the beginning....
Go Slow, less chance of having to say *** was that?

ripnlips1

06-08-2008, 12:20 PM

I have a 21' NR Commander 5.7 EFI with a Hamilton 212. I mostly run her in the Puget Sound (90%) and in the CR (10%). I have 530 hours running in salt water and average 7-8 gallons per hour at 32-3400 rpm at about 30-32 MPH (that's effecient enough for me). There is very little maintanace with the 212, just grease the jet once and a while. I can launch my boat at low tide when the deep V boats can't. I can beach my boat without any worries. In an emergency, I can also throw the 212 in full reverse at 50mph and come to a stop in about 30 feet. I have heat and defrost that gets used in the middle of the summer by my wife and kids. A 21' boat isn't too big for rivers or white water. HCM, Custom Weld and Precision Weld build 24-25' jets for the Snake, HC, and other rivers.
My only complaint would be the delta pad 12 deg hull. It will pound on windy days with 2-3' chop. The 21' Seahawk is now available with the 212 to satisfy both needs (some off shore and some shallow water >10" deep). When I want to go off shore for Tuna or Halibut, I get a seat on someone else's boat.
If you were going to hunt for tuna and halibut (once you get the bug, it's only a matter of time) I would get the 21' Seahawk with the OB Yami F150-250. If you will never go past B10 and stay on the CR, lakes, and other rivers, I would get the jet.
Remember, no boat will do everything perfectly. :twocents:

Hullk

06-09-2008, 09:56 AM

OB1

06-09-2008, 12:55 PM

That was me, 4 mile per gallon on an OK ocean cruising between 20 to 25mph.

WaterDog

06-09-2008, 01:12 PM

Yea, I have been looking at the NR Seahawk a lot, both the 21' OB and the 22' jet.

I've seen a couple posts here saying saying you can get anywhere from 7-10 gph @ 30 mph on a Hamilton 212.

What fuel efficiency are you guys getting in an OB, mainly the 150 and 225? I thought I saw someone say 4 gph in a Honda 150 but what speed are you running at?

The issue with a jet in the ocean is if conditions don't allow you to get on step you'll be burning that 7 to 10gph but only doing 12mph. This is when fuel is an issue. No biggie 10 to 15 miles out but get out there 20+ miles you could have problems if you don't have enough fuel capcity.

If your seriously looking at an IB Seahawk with a 212, Think about going to the 23' so you can get the walkaround engine box. Also be aware that if your thinking about any whitewater, the seahawk will have a lot of bowshear which will wear you out or put you on the rocks. Pick your posion. :twocents:

Halfhooked

06-11-2008, 08:18 PM

I was in the same "boat" 3 mo ago. I went with the jet. 20' NR Trapper. I was looking at the seahawk (great boat).

I realized that no matter how much i dreamed of fishing Tuna, 98% of the boats uses would be in big rivers, lakes or small tributaries.

That made the jet a viable option.

I have 2 kids ages 8 and 12. That translates that a good 40% of this boats use will be for pulling tubes and wakeboards.

I will tell you that the jet uses fuel to be sure. Four stroke outboards under 200 hp or so sip fuel.

However, fuel injection and a 3 stage pump are far more efficient than the carburated 350 v8 and the typical American turbine single stage pump that was standard equipment on many NW produced jetboats.

My jet does not suck fuel as bad as i thought it would. I have the option of runnig most any water that a sane man would want and walking around the engine box is not that horrible. For me it is a small price for the acess to my motor,routine maintenance and a motor that is considerably cheaper to fix than a 200-250 hp Yamaha should a catstrphic failure occure.

It all depends on what you are doing with it.

My :twocents::twocents:

No Fences

06-11-2008, 08:37 PM

Rob,

Does your Intruder have the fresh water cooling ? (nice boats btw !)

Having the fresh water cooling/heater is a big plus for the ocean, my father in-law runs an inboard out of Brookings..its a nice set-up.

Like said earlier no one boat will have every ideal attribute for every single setting.

Yes, it's freshly cooled. And thanks. I love the boat.

Irish Pennant

06-11-2008, 09:30 PM

I have a 1997 20' NW Jet, 350 Chev, American Turbine that I bought new.
It has a 57 Gal main fuel tank and when I go off shore I will carry and additional 18 gal in aux tanks.
I just got through putting in a new long block, water pump, alt, starter and rebuilt the carb. It cost me less than 3 grand. I've had this boat for 11 years and I run it year around. When it's halibut season I go after them and when the tuna are around I go after them. I've been 30+ miles off shore many times. A typ Tuna fishing day will burn 45-55 gal of gas, Halibut around 30. Ocean running fuel consumption avgs 11 gal per hr @ 3500 RPM, columbia and willy avg 8 gph. The dog house is in the way but it also makes for a good fighting seat. I've run this boat from Neah Bay to Lake Shasta, to the Snake River and up and down the Columbia from Astoria to The Dalles, up the Willamette as far Newberg, Up the Clack to Barton Park and up to many of our lakes. When I'm in the salt I sometimes wish I had a bigger boat but when I'm doing all the other stuff I'm happy with it.
The NW Jet had a problem at one time with the exhaust system that the newer models don't have. Outside water could come back into the cylinders through the exhaust and introduce sand and other contaminants. A change in the design has fixed it. I've been very pleased with my boat, it's built like a tank.
I've had OBs that I never kept long enough to have to repower. Between an outboard boat of the same size as my Jet boat and what I have, I'd rather have my Jet. But thats just me.

Good-Times

06-12-2008, 12:27 AM

I had the same dilemma as you last year when I had my new boat built. In October of 07 I took delivery of my new custom built "Idaho Boats jet boat, the manufacturer suggested that since most of our fishing is in the willy, Columbia and ocean that I stay with a prop but I decided that I wanted the versatility of a jet so out came this beautiful boat with an 8.1 ltr, 212 Hamilton all was great until our first trip on the Willy in October cruising along then all of a sudden it started vibrating like crazy. Turns out that in a jet if you suck up even a small stick the size of a pencil and it get lodged between the housing and the impeller the water will cavitate and there you are stuck at low RPM's until you get it cleared, if you can reach it in the front of the impeller you can clear it from the inside of the boat if it is in the rear of the impeller time to either go swimming or pull the boat and clear it then off you go again. After going out and getting shut down on almost every trip we have been on I came to a point where I did not trust the jet and sure as heck did not feel comfortable taking it 30 miles offshore for Hali’s so I sold the boat and am having “Idaho Boats” built me the same beautiful boat with outboards. I have had jets before and did not have these problems with an American turbine but after a few guys saw us up clearing the jet at the docks a few times they also had the same issues with their Hamilton’s. I would recommend that if you are going to run in these areas watch how much debris is in the water and you will see why there are these issues. I would also recommend to all IFishers that are considering an aluminum boat to check out “Idaho Boats” I have owned numerous boats and after experiencing their quality fit, finish & performance I would not buy an aluminum boat from any other manufacturer. Good luck on your new boat.

Good-Times

06-12-2008, 12:32 AM

One more point when you have a boat built I would recommend having it built with a fuel cell big enough to go offshore keeping in mind the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 rule. Depending upon the type of power you decide and boat size will assist in determining the size of fuel cell.

ripnlips1

06-12-2008, 11:22 AM

Why didn't you install a "Stomp Grate" if you were having that much trouble with debris. There isn't a lot of sticks 30 miles off the coast, but there are floating kelp beds. I just keep my eyes looking for that bull kelp. It will stop a jet boat real fast.

I had the same dilemma as you last year when I had my new boat built. In October of 07 I took delivery of my new custom built "Idaho Boats jet boat, the manufacturer suggested that since most of our fishing is in the willy, Columbia and ocean that I stay with a prop but I decided that I wanted the versatility of a jet so out came this beautiful boat with an 8.1 ltr, 212 Hamilton all was great until our first trip on the Willy in October cruising along then all of a sudden it started vibrating like crazy. Turns out that in a jet if you suck up even a small stick the size of a pencil and it get lodged between the housing and the impeller the water will cavitate and there you are stuck at low RPM's until you get it cleared, if you can reach it in the front of the impeller you can clear it from the inside of the boat if it is in the rear of the impeller time to either go swimming or pull the boat and clear it then off you go again. After going out and getting shut down on almost every trip we have been on I came to a point where I did not trust the jet and sure as heck did not feel comfortable taking it 30 miles offshore for Hali’s so I sold the boat and am having “Idaho Boats” built me the same beautiful boat with outboards. I have had jets before and did not have these problems with an American turbine but after a few guys saw us up clearing the jet at the docks a few times they also had the same issues with their Hamilton’s. I would recommend that if you are going to run in these areas watch how much debris is in the water and you will see why there are these issues. I would also recommend to all IFishers that are considering an aluminum boat to check out “Idaho Boats” I have owned numerous boats and after experiencing their quality fit, finish & performance I would not buy an aluminum boat from any other manufacturer. Good luck on your new boat.

Good-Times

06-12-2008, 11:26 AM

I looked into the options and spoke with hamilton about it a stomp gate will not stop or clear a 1/4 stick 3 inches long from entering the jet, or clear it after it is in the jet

fishkisser

06-12-2008, 09:37 PM

Dang my marine power X-stream 2 stage pump eats everything but really big eel grass paddys ...
Don't ask me how I know this ...:redface:

Yellow North River

06-13-2008, 03:34 PM

If you are set on a windsheild boat and want to run rivers get a NR mariner with a Scout transom like TH Custom Rods did. That way you can swap pump and prop. I have a 22 X 84 Scout and I swap it is easy. That way I can fish bays in the fall along with steelhead and swap back in the spring to fish the columbia. my :twocents:

Halfhooked

06-14-2008, 01:38 AM

I have heard a lot of good about Ham 212 units but 1/4 in sticks????

My 3 Stage XStreme Pump would and has passed those before. The intake grate stops all but the smallest obstructions and the one that do make it by, it poops them out:D.

Now i have had stuff suctioned up against the grate stopping flow, but a quick turn or shot in reverse solves th issue.....:twocents:

RiverMan

06-14-2008, 05:36 PM

Hullk,

I own a 19' Raider now with a 140HP Suzuki prop. I like the boat quite well and it is very easy on fuel. I decided on a prop because I wanted the extra floor space for fishing. However........

I have also run jets for many years as part of my job working on the Hanford Reach. The biggest advantage of jets in my opinion is the peace of mind they give you in uknown waters. With a jet you can for the most part run the boat into shore about anywhere.......run it up, get out and do your thing, then push back out again. You won't be doing this with a prop!!

With a jet there is far less concern of hitting something that will cost you a whole bunch of money. I have hit tons of branches, bushes, etc., while working in a jet boat and it did no damage whatsoever. You might suck something up in the pump, clean it out and go. In contrast, I have hit one sunken log with my prop and it cost me 200 dollars!

Bottom line, both are nice and it really depends on what you want.

If you are fishing familiar waters where the depth is known most of the time: prop

If floor space is important to you: prop

If fuel effeciency and limited motor noise is of concern: prop

If total boat weight is of concern: props are often lighter because of the lighter hull which means less towing cost.

But.....

If you will be fishing new waters a fair amount of the time: jet

If you are going to fish smaller rivers like the deschutes, cowlitz, clearwater, etc.: jet.

If you are not concerned by fuel effeciency and motor noise: jet

For additional piece of mind: jet

Finally, keep in mind many jet boats with an inboard will weigh considerably more and may require a bigger tow vehicle and more fuel. I tow my 19' boat and 140HP motor with a half ton easily. And, 140HP is plenty.

good luck!

RM

adobe wall

06-14-2008, 06:48 PM

If you buy a brand new jet, and are new to running jet powered sleds, you will have an expensive learning curve when you take it into skinny water.

I've made every mistake possible with my boat in the last year and I'd be a sick pup if I'd have bought that boat new. A couple of dents the size of my shoe in the hull and a lot of smaller ones.

The jet does suck gas and it can be an issue for me with fuel prices.

I can also tell you that I would have already replaced at least a prop, and likely a lower unit, if I owned a prop boat. There are an amazing number of pilings and deadheads in the bigger water around here and I've seen them right under the boat. I've mostly learned my way around but getting there would have been expensive with the prop.

One thing that Irish Pennant could clue you in on is impeller replacement cost when it comes to Hamilton vs. American Turbine. The difference is huge.

My (small) boat has a jet outboard, and I sure wish it was a 4 stroke.

Whatever it is, enjoy it.

regards, aw