60 feet from downrigger?

[SandySteel]

I went back and re-read Bill Herzog's article in STS a couple of years ago about kokanee fishing.

His opinion (fwiw) was that the downrigger ball would spook fish and that you wanted to keep it out of them. So to deal with that he sets up his trolls out 60 feet from the back of the boat, clips them on and drops the downrigger ball 10 feet or so above marked suspended kokanee on the fish finder. The reason he is so far back is to drop the offerings in to the kokanee while not disrupting them with the ball.

1) Are kokes really that disturbed by a downrigger ball when we are putting obnoxious flashers and dodgers down there? It's a black ball, how can that be more disruptive.

2) It seems like you would lose your turning advantage you get from downriggers.

Any thoughts?

[adobe wall]

Even when fishing down at 50-60 feet deep I still run the gear about 50 feet or more back. I think it gave me an advantage as I had time to adjust up or down with the downrigger to put the lure through the fish.

I used the depthfinder to locate the downrigger ball and would run it about 3-5 feet above the fish, not 10 feet.

Turning is a bit trickier, just gotta swing wider or else wait until you have a reason to stop (like a fish on)

hth, aw

[Thehunter]

I ran my flashers and gear about 10 feet behind my downrigger ball this weekend. I had no issues hooking up fish....

[FallRiverGuy]

It is my opinion that it can make a difference sometimes. If the fish are being finicky it can help. I have had many very good days fishing my gear 2 feet behind the ball. Other days when the fishing slows, I've started getting bites again when I have moved the lure back 35-50 feet behind the boat. As long as your boat is electrically in good shape and not putting out a disruptive current, you can run your gear close to the ball.

[moknots]

I usually run a big string of flashing blades attatched to my cannonball, attach the release to the end of the flasher cable, and run a dodger 2' (yes, 24 INCHES) or so behind that,with 8-11" of leader and a hoochie. Scares them so bad they apparently send one kamakazi fish after another in to decimate the tiny 1.5" hoochie following all that gaudy gear and the scary cannonball. But just in case they are going to be timid, I run 20-50' behind a green cannonball on the other side of the boat. Rarely does the set back gear outproduce the "scary" side of the boat.

In fairness, I am an immature predator more interested in filling the smoker than catching "trophy" kokanee, so I can't speak to targeting the elusive (and in Central Oregon too rare to have my interest) 20" kokanee. Maybe they don't like my gear, but the schoolies sure do. And my gear is subject to change. What ever works in your particular pond!

[Waterfish]

I let about 50' of line out before clipping onto the downrigger cable. Not because the downrigger ball scares away kokanee, but because when the kokanee get hooked they are not close to the boat. So if I am fishing 30' deep, with 50' of line behind the downrigger cable, I have a total of 80' of line out. I think it is more fun to fight a fish that is further out from the boat. The extra line out gives more time to play the fish and tire it out. By the time it comes to the surface it is less likely to jump out of the water and get off the hook. :food:

[dlm]

I like Moknots system from the standpoint of less fouling of the rigging when you let the ball down a little on the fast side. Flashers on the ball and release attached above the ball has resulted in some ugly messes when I got a little aggressive on the drop rate.

[Doc_Rhen]

If you have one and believe in black boxes, you should be right behind the ball. I generally don't think that kokanee are that bothered by the ball. I have heard some discussion of using longer set-backs 100' on kokes and 300' for bulls if you are fishing fairly shallow the thought being that the boat looks like a giant eagle to a fish. (I still want to see the fish sitting on a couch talking to the fishy shrink about the scary 20" aluminum eagle that flew over last week.:passout:)

[joemomma]

It works both ways, been there done it! But I now go 50' back, and it works! At times everything works!

[dlm]

Electricity should not be a problem, I removed the wire cabel and replaced it with synthetic.

I have heard that the boat scares the browns but have never heard that about the kokes. It sounds like right now on Suttle they are too stupid to be scared. lol.:excited:

[SilverBullets]

Kokanee don't seem to mind the ball. I use the black box, and try to keep my offerings within 15' of the wire. I sometimes use a gang troll off the ball and let out line so dodger is 2' in back of that and 4' up to my clip. You can then make tight turns through the schools. I have a better catch rate fishing close to the ball, as the fish don't get up to the surface and go ballistic this way. In my opinion, when fishing in back of the boat more than 50', the kokanee get off easier when they are able to come up and get horizontal to the surface. In addition, fishing close to the ball gives you a more accurate idea of what depth your at, as your set-up will not drop as much as it would if you were 100' back. I use the ball to my advantage, using prism tape and plenty of pro-cure gel scents. Of coarse, there are times when your fishing between the surface and 30' down, and a longer setback is then necessary.

[joemomma]

I let about 50' of line out before clipping onto the downrigger cable. Not because the downrigger ball scares away kokanee, but because when the kokanee get hooked they are not close to the boat. So if I am fishing 30' deep, with 50' of line behind the downrigger cable, I have a total of 80' of line out. I think it is more fun to fight a fish that is further out from the boat. The extra line out gives more time to play the fish and tire it out. By the time it comes to the surface it is less likely to jump out of the water and get off the hook. :food:

I agree, add an ul rod and as soon as the fish is hooked I back off the drag, makes for a great win loss record! Gunna give moknots method a try, real soon, hooking release to flashers off of ball! I will have to shorten up then! Change up and adapt! The fish do!

[VanDaddy]

I have read the article and have been running 50-70 feet back. This year I am going to run flashers off one ball and the line 10 feet back, and the other line 60 feet back. I will take careful notes as to how each produces and report my findings later in the summer. Perhaps others will do this as well.

[jzell]

15 to 30 ft setback.

My balls don't spook um:rolleyes:

fifty 2 dayz,

jz

[trollin4trout]

Maybe I'm not understanding this but when I've thought of maybe trying the release on the end of some flashers idea- I realized that you will be pulling UP on the END of the flasher string when you tighten up/bend your rod over in the pole holder. Now you'll have an arc from where the flasher is attached to the ball, curving up to the end where the release is holding it up tightly. Seems like some of the blades are not going to turn very well like that- or maybe it's SO different that the fish can't resist?

[Phish Phinder]

Maybe I'm not understanding this but when I've thought of maybe trying the release on the end of some flashers idea- I realized that you will be pulling UP on the END of the flasher string when you tighten up/bend your rod over in the pole holder. Now you'll have an arc from where the flasher is attached to the ball, curving up to the end where the release is holding it up tightly. Seems like some of the blades are not going to turn very well like that- or maybe it's SO different that the fish can resist?

:yeahthat:

That's my dilema. It seems even with light gear that you'd be pulling up at a steep angle. Not disputing the effectiveness of this method.

Q

[wanafish]

Being new to koke fishing with dr's last year I did it just like salmon in the ocean only smaller gear. Dodger and hoochie 50-60'back, clip in and lower to desired depth. Tighten drag and reel down to get that good bend. Listen to the wire singing, pretend your off the coast of BC, watch for any little twitch, pop line out of clip and reel in fish. This year will try moknots method of blades attached to ball and clip on back of blades. :excited:

[Splash]

My set back varies depending upon the situation at the time. When running shallow depths my set back is greater and the deeper my offering the shorter it becomes. This is just my way of doing it that works for me.

As for Moknots method of clipping to the end of the flashers that is certainly something I will have to try. While the blades may not spin, in what I assume is a verticle configuration, they will certainly still flutter and flash. I have observed this when trollling slowly (or wind drifting) and the flashers are hanging down and also while fighting fish that decide to swim out along side of the boat.

[dlm]

Remeber, you are pulling up with the end of your rod, not with the reel, so rod placement has allot to do with how much the troll would be pulled up. Depending on your holder placement and the length of your rod, your rod tip may be as far away from the ball as the end of the troll, or nearly so. Also, no matter how much you bend the pole, the line never runs straight down, there is always a little bow in the line.

[adobe wall]

I've thought about running my flasher gear off the ball and the release attached to the gear and had the same concerns others have posted.

I generally set the line tight in the release so that the fish doesn't pop the line loose. I reckon fishing that way, I could just not cinch down the line tension so much and the gear would run straight.

I figure the ball acts as a snubber when I do that, and given the amount of bouncing transferred up to the rod I think it helps with fish retention.

I dunno. This time of year I'm going to be fishing shallow anyways so I'll file this back in my mind for the summertime. Right now I've got springers on the brain. Bad.

regards, aw

[moknots]

Yup, the flasher cable comes up some. Until the kokanee bites and it, or I pops the line and it goes flat, right along with any concerns about the cable deflection:D. The blades I use will wallow around instead of completely rotating if the angle is steep. Then the kokanee bites, removing any concerns thereof. etc. etc. i.e. it works:excited:. Maybe they like the wallowing better than the spinning, just like TFT suggests?

[Smalma]

My thinking is that kokanee are a fish that is boat shy. Therefore it is more a question of the boat spooking the fish than the down rigger ball.

A basic rule that I use to start the day is the 100 feet of line - that is I fish with a 100 feet of line out. If I set the down rigger at 20 feet I use a 80 feet drop back. If it is set at 50 feet then a 50 feet of drop back.

As always is the case kokanee seem to be a moody fish and each day may require adjustment from the beginning point but for my boat the 100 foot rule usually is a good starting point. When fishing is tough I do begin experimenting with adding a string of blades directly of the down rigger ball when fish depths of 40 feet or more.

Tight lines
Curt

[Phish Phinder]

Yup, the flasher cable comes up some. Until the kokanee bites and it, or I pops the line and it goes flat, right along with any concerns about the cable deflection:D. The blades I use will wallow around instead of completely rotating if the angle is steep. Then the kokanee bites, removing any concerns thereof. etc. etc. i.e. it works:excited:. Maybe they like the wallowing better than the spinning, just like TFT suggests?

Ok that's kind of what I was thinking. It's more of a ball "dodger". That kind of gives me an idea for a design that I might make and try out. Anybody know where to find dodger blanks (like the "sling blade")?

Thanks - Q