how to anchor?

[Tagster]

Fished at the Fishery on Friday...phenomenal conditions, darn near no wind or waves to speak of. Perfect except, I couldn't get my anchor to hold.

Anchored across from the upper ramp at the Fishery, water was ripping by pretty good, threw out all 300' of line and only held for about 25 minutes. I have a 26lb breakaway anchor and 6' of chain.

Anyone have any ideas on how to hold?

p.s. Pilar, do you fly an American flag off your antennea (sp?)?

[FEAR NO FISH!]

Tagster,
It helps to have a three or four rake anchor. Also a heavier anchor helps. I like to use 3/8 inch rope as it doesn't have as much drag in the water. If none of that helps, move over into slower water and cast out farther. :shocked:

[Pilar]

Hi Tagster. Wasn't me, my boat is in pieces for a week or more. Usually I fly the Conch Republic flag. Its blue with a sun in the middle of it.

Bonneville is the graduate school of anchoring. So don't feel bad if you can't make it work. A rocking chair type anchor with 2, 3, 4 'rockers' is good. I use 10' of 1" chain and 3/8" line. The anchor weighs 45 lbs and is homemade. The chain seems to make the most difference. The other thing is the line must be minimum 300'. 500' is better and I use that at Bonneville when the current is up.

This rig works everywhere except the shad rack at Ives Island. I always slide off that one because the boats are packed in and I have to tie my line off short to fit in the hogline.

So, try a heavier anchor and longer chain. The rule on line is 5 to 7 times the depth. There are some interesting signs along the bank and at the fishery where the CG is explaining the need for care in anchoring. These signs include much of what I've said here about line length and some statistics about anchoring accidents on that stretch of river.

[Threemuch]

Tagster,
How big is your boat? 6' of chain is almost nothing. I would use at least a foot of chain per foot of boat length, more is better.

The idea is to make the pull on the anchor horizontal, not vertical. In big wind and/or current this takes more and heavier chain that in light wind/current. There is no anchor that will hold when pulled vertically, unless it is snagged. What is a breakaway anchor? Danforth style? There is a ton of info on the web on achor styles and chain required and amount of scope. Good luck.

[Tagster]

Sorry, I should have been more specific about my anchor system. It is a rocking chair style with four spikes. The center shaft that the chain hooks to is about 2 1/2' tall and it will collapse down to lay flat for storage. The anchor has two connection points. One at the top with a chain running down to the second at the base of the anchor. Is this a Danforth style?
My boat is 19' North River.

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

Tag

[fishbait]

ditto on the chain.... try 15 ft min.

[Pilar]

Tagster, the danforth anchor is the sheet metal one you see at the store. It has two 'flukes' or triangle shaped thin blades that swivel back and forth and a shank made of steel rod in the middle with a sliding ring for the line. This anchor is useful on sand or mud and not much current. It is not heavy enough for anything else and you see this anchor on ski boats not serious fishing boats.

You have a rocking chair. One tech tip for you may prevent the loss of your anchor if it gets hung up. The chain should be terminated at the bottom of your anchor on the cross bar. Welded to it or clipped on the ring there. Then use hay wire or several large wire ties to secure the chain to the ring at the end of the shank. If you hang up the wire ties will break and the chain will then pull at the base of the anchor which usually frees it from the snag.

It works! $1 worth of wire ties can save your $75 anchor.

A few more tips. When you anchor let the boat drift down as you let out line. Holding your spot by motoring against the current makes the line go to the back of the boat near the motor. Anyone can tell you how bad it is if you get the line hung in the motor.

This is how boats get sunk at Bonneville

Once it hits the bottom let out all but 30 ft of the line as the boat drifts. Then throw your bobber over and pull on the line hard to tip the anchor over and set it. If the current is too strong just let go of the rope and let the bobber take the strain. At Bonneville I never tie the anchor line to the boat until I know it is set and that the current is not too strong.

Trying to set the anchor while the line is not flat to the bottom is a waste of time. With all of your line in the water the line will be as flat to the bottom as it will ever be.

If you end up drifting and bouncing the anchor, pull it and start over. Dragging bottom is a great way to find a junk car or pile of steel cables on the bottom. Your anchor will check in but it wont check out. Just call it one way charlie.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

While we're talking about anchoring, here's a trick taught to me last summer that I really like. If you look up chinese fire drill in the book, you'll see two guys in a jonboat trying to untie the anchor line while duking it out with Big Daddy. An easy fix for this is a quick release for the anchor line. With the boat on the trailor pull the bow line under the boat as it would do if you drove away with the line in the water. Pull the line right back to the motor. About 6" shy of the prop, trim the line and burn the end to prevent unraveling. From this moment on the bow line will never foul the prop, even if you forget and leave it trail.

Thread a crab float on your anchor line. Put a loop in the end of your anchor line and tie a knot about 10 ft from the end, trapping the crab float at the end of the line. To set up your quick release, anchor as described above. Then thread the bowline through the loop at the end of your anchor line. Feed the loop all the way to the point where the bowline is attached to the boat. Pull the bowline back to the stern and wrap it one turn around a cleat. Put one 1/2 hitch on the cleat to hold it.

When you get the urge to go downriver (imagine singing reel here) just untie the 1/2 hitch and forget about it. The line will slide through the loop and the anchor will stay behind while you go down with the fish. Quick and painless and no one has to climb up on the bow. Make sure your anchor float will float if you leave the anchor behind. Most large puller balls will do this.

Sorry so long, hope this helps, my $1.49 worth.

[Tagster]

Pilar, go ahead and bill me for the $1.49, I will get it in the mail today, I promise! :smile:

Thank you for the great advice, I will use it next time I go up.

Thanks, Tag

[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Tagster ]</p>

[Tagster]

Dogfishboy,

You know, I never thought about my sea anchor effecting how the anchor holds. I was using two 5 gallon buckets with holes drilled in the bottoms tied off to the transom.

They were pulling pretty hard.

Thanks for the reminder...

Tag

[invader]

man if the current was that strong, i would move to another spot!!, i dont like fishing with more than 20 ounces of lead anyways!!........john

[dogfishboy]

Hey John,

Mark and I both use this type of “release” on our boats. This is our system. We weave a "goat hook with swivel eye" into the end of our anchor rode (line). We run a separate line from the bow, out around railings, and secure it to the stern cleat. This way all you have to do is clip the goat hook onto the bow-to-stern line. We too cut our bow-to-stern line just short of the prop. We attach a 12" round fender on a short line to the same eye that the anchor rode is lashed to on the goat hook. This allows the hook to float.

The beauty of this system is that you can perform all your anchoring tasks in the safety of the back of your boat and not perched like a hood ornament on the bow as you mentioned. No running through the cabin breaking things and smashing bananas on the floor :wink: just to release the anchor. It’s easy to release the anchor quickly to escape doughballs bearing down on ya or large logs snagged on your anchor line.

Before we return to our anchor after drifting and netting our fish :smile: we locate the bow-to-stern line under the boat and re-secure it to the stern cleat. When we get back to the anchor we grab the anchor line and just clip the goat hook to the bow-to-stern line. We drift back in neutral and the goat hook slides forward and stops at the bow.
When its time to pull anchor the goat hook slides around to the stern and against the stern cleat. We pull from the stern. This is not recommended for small boats or those with weak transoms, undersized cleats or cleats that are not bolted through the gunwale.

The only potential down side to this system is that when you drift with a fish and are in the netting stage the bow-to-stern line is now drifting under the boat. There is a chance it might become tangled in your fish and line. We are almost always able to retrieve the line prior to netting. We've used this method for hundreds of fish over the years and only had one "near incident.” This system is particularly good for larger boats or ones that have difficult bow access.

Just thought I would describe our system which seems to be similar to yours. It's a good one.

See ya on the water JW,
David

btw, If folks try new anchoring methods they should practice prior to trying to hit a hole in the hogline.

[Pilar]

It makes sense and I bet alot of others do it too.

Or 'Great minds think alike' .....

Or too much time on the water waiting for the bend .......

[dogfishboy]

Tagster, We have a small and large collapsible anchor. I had to bend the points out away from the center shaft on the small one to get it to hold better. The large one is so blasted heavy the coasties could use it for a nav aid anchor. 15 feet of 1/2" chain should be plenty for a 19' aluminum boat.

The "wife's boat" weighs 6K #s and has 300 feet of 1/2" rode, 15' of 3/4" PC chain, and the largest collapsible they make. The only place we have problems is on rocky bottoms. One thing I've found with these anchors is that you need to make sure it's locked in the upright position prior to lowering it into the water. If you toss them the locking slider can get fouled and not lock.

I don't know what size sea anchors/bags/socks you use, but downsizing or only using one might keep you from dragging anchor in strong current. You probably know this...so never mind :wink:

David

[NAUTI-NOTIONS]

"btw, If folks try new anchoring methods they should practice prior to trying to hit a hole in the hogline."
This is the most important part,,,, and practice it in a pretty good current. more than once. please.

Sliding in to other peoples lines can be hazardous to your health. and end a trip early with a lost anchor.

[Johnson_Bar]

After reading all these posts about anchoring I realize that there is alot about anchoring that I don't know. The one question that I have is after reading about atatching your anchor line onto your bow line is what if you have 400 feet of anchor rope and you don't want to throw all of it out? For instance is that your trying to hit a spot in a hogline, what would be the best way to use this system?

[Pitch Pocket]

Dogfishboy & Pilar. I've got an open sled with a jamb cleat, and releasing to chase has never been a real problem (no windshield or bow cover), so I'm having a difficult time clearly envisioning your setup. Can you post a drawing?

Quoting dogfishboy:
"We pull from the stern. This is not recommended for small boats or those with weak transoms, undersized cleats or cleats that are not bolted through the gunwale."

My understanding about pulling from the stern is not that the cleats or transom can't take it, but that if you lose power and swing downstream, anchor to stern or cleat amidships, you will sink with water over the stern or side....and fast, especially in the Bonneville currents.

Does your setup slide back up to the bow if there is an emergency? Any possibility of it snagging somewhere and scuttling you in the speed of a developing situation? I've seen boats pulled under when anchorlines are attached at stern cleats. It happens so fast, there is not much time for error before you are in the water.

[Nookie Monster]

Good questions Bill & SjP.
I have been thinking about how to handle not wanting to use the full length of the anchor rope. Has anyone tried using a mountain climbing jam cleat? I am thinking: attach a "goat hook" to the climbing cleat, let out the desired amount of anchor line, connect the "goat hook" to the anchor line with the mountain climbing cleat (think of the cleat as acting like a clothes pin that you are connecting to the anchor line),snap the "goat hook" to the bow line, bungee your excess anchor rope together and let it all fall overboard.
Just an idea.

[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: Nookie Monster ]</p>

[Pitch Pocket]

If I only want 100 feet only I create and tie up armloads of coils (about one coil per 100 feet of line coiled from hand to elbow). These coils sit at the bottom of my anchor line bucket and if I have to chase, I just throw the entire contents of the bucket in the water with a crab buoy at the end.

I've tried a bucket with a lid cut for a ropes diameter, but it just fills with water. I've tried putting the excess line in a burlap sack, but it get's pretty heavy and sinks the buoy. The coils are not too heavy and it works well.

[Nookie Monster]

How do you attach a "goats hook" to your anchor line without it being at the end of the line?

[dogfishboy]

Wasn't able to log-on for awhile but Jen figured it out.

Bill, If you have extra line when you line up with the other boats you can just tie a loop in your anchor line at that point and attach a carabiner to loop and then to bow line. It works the same as the goat hook and you can leave the hook at the end...or not. Wrap up extra anchor line and attach a fender/float. Now your ready. Just undo half hitches at stern when its time to drift with a fish. If your short just add line and use carabiner as mentioned above.

SjP, Your right, a picture is worth a thousand words. Feel free to post those pics I sent you if you want. It always takes forever for me to remember how.

Nookie Monster, I think my answer to Bill's question answers yours too.

David

[Pilar]

Good point Bill Johnson. You found the flaw in the system. I have a windshield and a top so getting on the bow is a pain in the @$$. We just let out all the line. At B-Ville you want to use 500' or risk getting in trouble. I anchor in fast water there so I take no chances. Anywhere else I use the 200' line so I can let it all out. I haven't found a sensible way to choke up on the rope and still make it possible to throw it over if I go on a Columbia river sleigh ride with big daddy.

Does anyone know how to coil or store the extra so it can be thrown over while you go down with a fish?

One other thing. It is a very bad idea, as pointed out above, to tie onto the transom or back of the boat when pulling the anchor. Tie on the bow and lay the line along the gunnel. If you lose power the line must be attached to the bow or you will be anchored by the stern.

That is a one way ticket to the bottom of the river.

[Tilla]

Pilar, regarding line storage, I saw a boat Salmon fishing off Kalama using a drawstring bag made of netting. It was similar to those used in collecting clams. Your question reminded me of that. The rope will dry, you can see through it and it does not add any resistance. Now where do we find it?

[dogfishboy]

Mesh bag idea is an interesting idea. I coil line up then take a double long coil and run it through the coil and twist two half hitches around top of coil. I then throw two half hitches on the lower part of the coil with the boat end of the line. Attach a float sized to your line weight and toss as needed. Once ya figure out the hitches :whazzup: to secure the excess line it's a no brainer from then on out. :grin:

[Johnson_Bar]

Thanks for the input. My boat has a top and a windshield as well and I still have a couple of questions. What would be the best knot to use for tying a loop in your line if you didn't let it all the way out. I can think of a few knots but none that are easy to undo after being under pressure. Also does anyone have any ideas on how you can throw or pull your anchor without being on the bow if you have a top and windshield? Thanks for the great info.

[Pitch Pocket]

In my previous post on this thread, I said I coiled my excess rope and tied it up to throw into the water when chasing a salmon or sturgeon from anchor. A picture is worth a thousand words.

http://www.ifish.net/uploads/462820336.jpg

See page 22 of the Morrows Book of Knots to see how to easily secure the coils.

I can get about 75' or so in one coil before it becomes unmanagable. So I just make 2 smaller ones if necessary. No bags, no buckets. You could use wire ties, but why when you can do it with the rope itself? It's quick and tidy.

[Thick-N-Thin]

Thilla,

I have a couple of mesh bags I use to store rope and other items that I stor away wet in my boat. You can pick-up mesh net bags at most places that sell linen...Towels etc. A linen supply company, janitor supply house or even your local Target or Shopko will have them.

[brshooter]

Bill,
I have a 19' North River with a top and windshield. I added a jamb cleat just inside the walkthrough windshield. Just mount it to one side so it is not in the way. When I have to go chase, it is just a matter of opening the swinging section of the windshield, tugging the rope off the jamb cleat, and giving it a toss. Usually, it is just my wife and I when we are fishing and it seems to work just fine for us. My wife is disabled and is limited in what she can do in the boat. When it is time to tie back up, I will get out on the bow with the boat hook to grab the rope while my wife drives. Hook the rope in the jamb cleat, close the window, and it's back to fishing. We have never had any problems with this method.

[Joe Schwab]

Keeping it simple is the best way. Every style of boat is different but the dynamics are the same. After chartering in Cook Inlet for five years, I learned what to do and what not to do. The currents there make Bonneville look like a pond. We routinely anchored in 150-200 feet of water with currents that required 80 ounces of lead to hold bottom with tuff line.
Rule #1 Anchoring or pulling from the stern is asking for trouble. When I say pulling from the stern I mean tying off to the stern cleat. Lay the line along the gunwhale and over the rear corner. Keep the line tied to your bow cleat. Have a big sharp knife ready to cut the rope when pulling. Do not hesitate to cut the rope if tangle occurs.

Rule #2 Get a good anchor puller that grabs the line and stays where you put it. After the anchor is set let out 25-50 feet of line so you can easily see your bouy.

Rule #3 When anchoring let the boat drift as you pay out line. Use plenty of chain. I use 20 feet on a 24 foot boat. Some of the Captains in Alaska used two anchors, a smaller one about 10 feet in front of your main to decrease the angle of the pull.

When pulling the anchor set up your pull by angling the boat to one side of your buoy. Make sure you have plenty of room to get the anchor up before running through other boats. When the rope and anchor are up and floating motor into clear area to finish pulling gear into boat. A brightly colored anchor rope is easier to see when in the initial stage of the pull. You would be amazed at what Hydraulics can do to a rope loop. Watch the rope carefully until the buoy is behind the boat and steadily increase power.
If you are totally unfamiliar with the procedure, ask to go with someone. Practice in uncongested areas until it becomes comfortable. Please wear your flotation when anchoring. :cool: :cool: :cool:

[Pilar]

Tilla is describing a scuba divers goody bag. They cost $10 to $12 at a dive shop. I have several that get used for clams or stuff I find when diving. Now there is yet another use for them. The good ones are made of heavy nylon mesh.

Thanks, Tilla.

[otter]

Bill,

The knot you are referring to is called a figure 8
It is the knot that climbers use to tie in with and is easy to untie after it is weighted. To tie it start the same as you would for an overhand knot but take an extra wrap around the main line.
clear as mud right?
I'll see if I can find a picture.
Hope this helps.

[otter]

Found one,
http://www.northnet.org/ropeworks/archive/figure8.html

[Pitch Pocket]

Bill, you can tie a bowline in line. You end up with a double loop, but it comes out easily after your done with it. I eliminated the need by installing a jam cleat.

Morrow's Book of Knots shows how to tie it. This is an excellent resource for knot tying. I'm sure there are others too.

[Nanook]

In very fast water and tight hogline situations, make sure you STOP and STICK well above the line, at least above all the anchor balls. When you are sure you are not slipping, leave the motor in neutral and go back into the line BY HAND, letting the rope out slowly.

Powering back fast in reverse in not being skillful, it's being ignorant and dangerous. If you are slipping, go slowly straight back up under power and again bring the anchor up by hand, don't try the anchor puller this close and in tight situations, pull someone out of the line, create a very sinkable situation and won't be welcomed back again. Saw too many near death experiences at Bonneville this past spring.

Cheap way to store and retrieve your anchor rope is a plastic laundry basket or similar, large enough to hold all your rope, with some holes in the bottom for drainage. The plastic coated anchor ropes sure save damage over time to your boat too.

Let someone show and teach you in these situations
the first time if possible.

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: ****** ]</p>

[Pete]

I have a plastic coated rode-chain on my anchor which is very boat friendly .. no nicks, no chips .. and it helps the chain lay straight when it goes down. It is, however, more slippery to handle than an uncoated chain.

Also, I have both a 35 pound "Willamette" rocking chair anchor and a 40 pound folding anchor. I've found the folding anchor unsatisfactory as it doesn't seem to grab the bottom as well as the lighter anchor. The folding anchor also needed a little help from a tie to keep the fold-lock from sliding up the shaft of the anchor while it's being dropped. The lighter anchor cost less and works better, even in the heavy, deep currents below Bonneville.