Fishing on Redds

[SandySteel]

I fished the Kilches on Friday and Saturday (11/9 & 10) with a few members of our Steelheader chapter. The focus of this annual trip is to catch and release a few chums and maybe catch a chinook in the process. The fishing was very slow until we got lower in the river and into some fresh fish. One of the last holes in the river actually provided enough coverage (broken deep water) and current to make the fish feel comfortable enough to bite. I think between 5 of us we hooked and released 10-15 fish. Some of the releases were early as the light gear we had to use because of the low and clear conditions would break off. There were some fish that we just couldn't control. We had a great time. Almost all of the fish were chums while we only saw two chinook. The chum were in great shape.

Now comes the main point of this post:
I was pretty appalled by the behavior of most of the fly fishermen I saw fishing. (although I saw conventional anglers doing this as well) I only fish to chum that are in deep holes as they are pretty good biters. I saw a good number of people fishing (or flossing) to fish on their redds in shallow riffles. I think the deal is most of the fly anglers (I am a fly fisherman myself but fish for salmon with conventional gear.) don't have the equipment to fish for chum in deep holes so they pick on the chum in the riffles. On top of that many of the anglers were actually walking through the redds.

Fishing to these fish (or mouth snagging) is lower than low. These fish have dug out huge areas with their tails and bodies, layed their eggs and fertilized them and are simply trying to protect them as long as they might live. To harrass them at this stage reduces their spawning success and walking in them kills the eggs.

Is there any way to post these areas (it would be easy to do) where the fish are spawning to educate anglers about what I see as an unethical method of fishing? You would need land owner permission, durable signs, and volunteers to go out and post the areas. Would anyone be interested in helping me out with this? Would the local ODFW officials have any interest in helping with this?

I highly value these fish and wish to see their survival continue and would like to raise the ethical bar when it comes to fishing for them. I think they are an amazing fish and while they are not very valuable for table faire are beatifully colored and fight like tigers. Unfortunately, many anglers treat them like trash fish which, in my opinion, is a mistake.

[Thumper]

Fly fishermen flossing??? Nah. These guys are the ultimate sportsmen. Next you will be telling us that most sockeye are caught by snagging.

[fishbait]

"I only fish to chum that are in deep holes as they are pretty good biters"

That makes it OK as opposed to catching the fish on their redds.... Bottom line is both methods create a strain on the fish and these runs are not strong enough to support this pressure.

Walking of Redds, that is a differant story and is only done by the most stupedist (sp) of fisherman.

[Jennie@ifish]

Gee, where did you get the idea, Eric? :wink:
I would be more than willing to help.
I was abs enraged when I saw schools of chum swimming in a very shallow riffle and several fly fishermen trampling through those very riffles!
I mean really trampling too! Not that it would help if they disturbed the redds gently... but?
It may be too late this year, but this is a great steelheader project for next year.
Perhaps we could get the permissions, pack the boat with signs and do a fish a long and a sign a long at the same time!
Fish a hole, post a riffle, fish a hole, post a riffle.... sign sign, educate, sign...
Jen

[Mrdorkfish]

Great post and idea SandySteel, Walking through the Redds and Riffles is not a good idea BUT long ago on the upper Nestucca i would float little glo-bugs just below the redds knowing of the shiny 16 inch treasure lurking ...already full of Salmon eggs :shocked: I never set foot in the water and i knew what was there....those guys don't have a clue and are just casting for anything that will bite....I think education first then sign,sign, everywhere a sign :grin:

Mrdorkfish

[Pete]

Clearly education is at the root. Events like the Salmon Festival which brings kids to Oxbow Park on the Sandy to watch salmon building redds and spawning certainly helps build awareness. Organizations like Washington Trout and Oregon Trout which conduct spawning surveys help. Outdoor education programs in our elementary and middle schools help. But there are people who don't seem to care when they have a fishing rod in their hand. But who stops the bull dozers that mine the river gravel? Who limits the logging practices that silt in the gravel and change the flow patterns of the river? There are so many issues affecting the runs that even an educated angler has trouble feeling responsible for contributing to the decline of some of our runs.

I remember runs on the Miami that where huge! Big runs of fish. Then the land owners started limiting access and there were fewer and fewer fishermen. Yet, even without fishing pressure, the runs are down to just a vestige of what they were. It isn't the fishermen or the fishing that's trumped the Miami chum runs. What is it? Land use? Ocean conditions? A little of everything?

I don't deny that protecting the spawning habitat from waders and fishers is important. But I think some of the tools to protect the fragile populations of these fish are in place. Education. Land use practices. Ocean issues. A coordinated effort is necessary. We can all contribute to a solution. It just takes some considerate thought.

[Joe Schwab]

Why are we allowing a catch and release fishery on a run of fish this fragile? I hear all the tongue lashings about mishandling wild spring chinook caught incidentally that are in much better shape to survive after being released than these near spawning chums. But this is the first (criticism) I have heard about this abominable practice of fishing on spawning beds. Are anglers (and I use the term loosely) this desperate to feel a tug on their line? After all the coho and chinook that have gone through this year there are still those who need the feel? I've seen and talked to some of these flyrod artists who turn up their collective noses at those of us who "harvest" impure hatchery fish with, of all things, bait!!! I'm not saying all catch and release is bad. I'm zeroing in on those spawning bed gravel dancers.
Let's put an end to this practice with education, pressure and if necessary legislation. I really hate to see streams closed to all angling. Let's hope it doesn't have to come to that. :blush: :blush: :depressed: :shocked:

[SandySteel]

I appreciate the thoughts and support. I even appreciate the criticism from fishbait. One reason I don't accept it is that it would rule out the practice of all catch and release of all anadromous fish. I do think that there is a big difference between fishing to spawning fish vs. fishing to fish that are just beginning their run up the river. Most of the fish I caught and released were still bright (for chum). I didn't see a one that had even a hint of white spots on its tail or back.
I will revisit this issue in late summer next year and see if we can't work out the issues that need to be addressed.

[V. Green]

Eric,

I was there with you this last weekend, I fished from the Park down to the logging bridge. Yes, there were many flyanglers snagging fish and walking in the reds, but I saw a bait or gear angler for every flyfishermen/women doing the same thing.

I don't think I fished more than a couple of places once I left the canyon. Mostly out of disquist for the poor behavior I witnessed on everyones behalf in the section just up from the logging bridge.

Too bad the water wasn't one foot higher. It would have made the river too deep to wade and kept most of the people out of the redds.

I would have to agree with garyk that angling probably has the least effect on this fishery. The shift in gravel during the winter from the heavy mining of gravel on this stream has to be disastrious to the survival of eggs on this system.


(So that everyone knows, I floated this section in a little 8' pram. My brother and I only had to get out a couple of times in to rope our boats through rapids that we didn't want to take a swim in. With the low water depth needed to float these we could pass over the the shallow areas without dragging bottom. When we did get out we were always careful to avoid redds.)http://www.ifish.net/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=008134


Thanks,

[SSPey]

the usual disclaimer: I wasn't there, since I completely avoid Oregon chum, even in the less publicized locations where they occur (geez - at this point let 'em live!). But thanks to V.Green for providing a perspective the implicates ALL the guilty parties beyond the usual fly bashing. To lump all fly anglers together (as some people in this thread have done) is ridiculous and doesn't help matters. It is easy to tell an honorable angler from a moron, so ignore their rod and judge them by their actions!

I'd bet good $$$ that the fly anglers you see snagging fish on the Kilches and Miami aren't the same ones who lobby for wild fish conservation. so why mix the two? These "people" on the Kilches are the worst kind of anglers out there, fly or otherwise. Obviously they don't care a rat's glass about conservation. These morons use a fly rod because it affords more line control in shallow waters and makes it easier to snag fish, but that sure doesn't make these idiots my "fly angler" brethren. They are maggots in the apple of a historic, respectable, challenging, and fun way to fish. If someone needs to feel a tug that bad, well, they know what to do. nuff said

[garyk]

Eric,

Glad you enjoyed the chum, they are, or used to be, my favorite flyrod fishery. I don't think I've made a cast for them in six years or more. I won't harass them at all when the numbers are so low.

Do re-read Pete's post. I don't think that anglers, under current regulations, are having much impact.

The majority of the fish come in after the Nov. 15th closure. In fact they continue arriving well into December.

More land and spawning areas are now inaccessible to fishing than there used to be in the 1980's, creating more refuge areas,

I would suggest putting energy into areas where it will do the most good -- more signs along the river is not likely the place.

Mining of the spawning gravels (aggregate that is public property by virtue of the State owning the river bottom) apparently continues. I thought that about four years ago Tillamook County implemented a phase-out of in-stream gravel mining. Perhaps Jennie can clarify this?

[Joe Schwab]

Oops, Sorry, I didnt mean to target all fly anglers with my criticism. I was aiming at these in particular and used a shotgun instead of a rifle. I have fly fished and enjoy it.
I aimed at those who hide behind fly fishing as the "only" way. Then the slobs come along and do these kinds of things, and try to pass themselves off as fly anglers and people like me lump them into a category. My mistake!!