Advancing skills

[Old Salt]

I just finished my first rod...rainshadow IST1084F...bait caster for 8-12# test. I had a lamiglass of similar rating and used it for bottomfish, steelhead. It was my most used rod. Anyway, had some frustrations building and would like to take another class or get together with a more experienced builder to advance my skills. I want to do some accent wraps and had a hard enough time with just getting the basics done on this rod. My next rod will be a bobber rod. I am getting mixed recommendations for length between 9 & 12'. This would be a steelhead bobber rod.

Glad to see the new forum!!!!:dance:

[StickFish]

Crabbait posted some items in the Tips section on accent wraps have you looked at those yet?

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=131385

That one covers the three turn wrap and the one. I have to try that one turn again. The three is basically a nail knot. when I tie that one I add a drop of CP to the knot junction to keep it from coming undone.

There is also a bunch of info on Mudhole's web site - look for the link Rod Building 101 there is an article on trim bands and inlays.

[Old Salt]

I've been wondering about adding some kind of glue to the wraps as you go to keep them from un-ravelling. Would the color preserver work for this? I dont want to epoxy each guide as I go, as that would take a long time.

Also wondering what kind of difference it would make having a better wrapper. I have the wood vee blocks now. I have been thinking of getting one of the Batson units, which look just like the one from Pac Bay. The Pac Bay unit seems to retail for a bit less than the Batson. These wrappers would allow for having the whole rod mounted in the wrapper and being able to easily move the thread to where the guides are, insted of moving the rod to the thread. I also like the idea of being able to shape cork with the unit.

[fisher-ben]

[quote=Old Salt;1821153]I've been wondering about adding some kind of glue to the wraps as you go to keep them from un-ravelling. Would the color preserver work for this? I dont want to epoxy each guide as I go, as that would take a long time.

If you finish your wraps by sucking the thread back underneath your wraps, and your wraps are tight unravelling should not be an issue?

[fishkisser]

[quote=Old Salt;1821153]I've been wondering about adding some kind of glue to the wraps as you go to keep them from un-ravelling. Would the color preserver work for this? I dont want to epoxy each guide as I go, as that would take a long time.

If you finish your wraps by sucking the thread back underneath your wraps, and your wraps are tight unravelling should not be an issue?

:agree::yeahthat: If you provide enough tension on your thread and place a loop of the same or slightly larger and wrap over it with the loop outside your wrap edge you can pull the thread under the wrap with it and it will never unravel on ya ( I need to take some pics and post them later )...

[DirectDrive]

Agree with what's been said...unravelling should not be an issue if proper tension and proper tie-off technique is used.
I would never want to apply finish as each wrap was completed.
It's important to "eyeball" the alignment of all of the wrapped guides before applying any finish.
Minor guide alignment issues can be sorted out and dealt with while viewing the entire assembly.

A couple of things come to mind when doing the final wrap and tie-off :

Place the temp tie-off loop slightly "upstream" of where you want to hide the tag end and at about 5 - 6 wraps to go.
Then pull the tag end back through the last 5-6 wraps.

I use a hemostat (Kelly clamp) to apply tension to the tag end, pulling away from the guide on shallow angle.
This opens a slight gap in the wrap.
Then I use a single-edge razor blade of medium sharpness held flat, to saw off the tag.

Burnish the wrap back into place and usually the tag end has disappeared and no burning is required.
The trick is to cut slowly with a medium sharp blade .... it's also less likely to damage the completed wrap as opposed to using a super-sharp blade.

[fishkisser]

Agree with what's been said...unravelling should not be an issue if proper tension and proper tie-off technique is used.
I would never want to apply finish as each wrap was completed.
It's important to "eyeball" the alignment of all of the wrapped guides before applying any finish.
Minor guide alignment issues can be sorted out and dealt with while viewing the entire assembly.

A couple of things come to mind when doing the final wrap and tie-off :

Place the temp tie-off loop slightly "upstream" of where you want to hide the tag end and at about 5 - 6 wraps to go.
Then pull the tag end back through the last 5-6 wraps.

I use a hemostat (Kelly clamp) to apply tension to the tag end, pulling away from the guide on shallow angle.
This opens a slight gap in the wrap.
Then I use a single-edge razor blade of medium sharpness held flat, to saw off the tag.

Burnish the wrap back into place and usually the tag end has disappeared and no burning is required.
The trick is to cut slowly with a medium sharp blade .... it's also less likely to damage the completed wrap as opposed to using a super-sharp blade.

You got it ... Brilliant description ...

[OnTheSauk]

IMHO, like so many other things, simply doing it over and over again makes it easier. I really had to put a lot of effort into my first couple of rods. The high point for me was when I reached to point where if I didn't like the appearance of a wrap I simply cut it off and did it again. That would have seemed overwhelming on those first couple.:tongue:

[Gooey]

It sounds like old salts wrapping station needs work. Saying he wants to glue the wraps in place as they are laid makes me think he isn’t getting good tension when wrapping the rod.

My first rod was wrapped with a home made station: 2 sets of caster wheels to lay the rod in and a phone book laid over the thread for tension...it worked well enough but when I realized I was hooked on rod building, I bought a Flex coat wrapping station....it has been well worth the money.

It sounds like you want to ad some trim bands in. 2 comments I have :

#1 you can't do trim bands neatly if your wrapping station wont hold the blank while keeping the thread/wraps under tension.


#2 the trick to trim bands for me has been anchoring them well. Several rods ago I perfect a method that now works really well for me. Now I am not tying 3 layer, multi color wraps like these tuna rod tiers but something tells me neither Old Salt nor I are there yet so I think this would be a good technique for a new builder.

On my Sage 296, I used double footed guides wrapped in green. There are 4 gold trim bands per foot: 2 that are 3 wraps wide closest to the eyelet and then 2 that are 2 wraps wide on the outer edges of the green...I think it looks really sharp. It’s had to picture but I'll try and describe the process below:

Let’s say you have positioned all of your guides and they are taped on. I will start by deciding how wide I want the wrap for this particular guide to be (I like my wraps to get wider as the guides increase in size from the tip down to the butt). I will mark the desired width on a piece of card board and use that as a gauge. So I start with a little piece of tape and underneath that tape I place 2 loops of 20lb power pro side by side. Let’s say I am tying the left side of a double footed guide so the wrap will start on the left and run right, so I take tape/loop assembly and using my gauge, I position the tape and loops (this determines the starting point for my wrap and the width of my wrap). Then I basically start my wrap at the edge of the tape (over top of the 2 braided loops). After about 6 wraps, I will cut off the tag end off the wrap, do 2 more wraps to bury the cut end and then take the loose tag end of the braid loops and pull the to the left. Then you continue wrapping up the foot. When I get near the end of the wrap I will position 3 more braided loops underneath the wrap and put another 6 or so wraps over top these 3 loops. At this point I am ready to cut the thread loose and synch the wraps down with one of the 3 braided loops. At this point what you will have is a completed wrap with 4 braided loops hanging out of it (2 on either side). These loops allow you to start and finish small and secure trim bands which won’t easily come undone. I will try and get the some pictures of the main stages of this process as I know reading thru this lengthy description may not clearly outline the process.

If someone with more experience has a better way of achieving the same, I would love to learn about it.

[orchemo]

Thaks you everyone for the tips. I am also considering building a pole and the info is great