what do you do with guts on the stream?

[Jennie@ifish]

This is interesting to me. I think the law says not to.
Then, they have us throw salmon carcasses in the river for stream enhancement reasons.
???
I wish I could get the straight scoop here and why the heck???
Jen

[TheRogue]

I bet that rule came about because some tourist from a state south of here images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif saw a pile of guts at a boat ramp on a pleasure outing, and called Dad, who called a Senator, who called an Oregon Senator, who called someone at ODFW, who called someone at DEQ, who called.....ah forget it, you know where I'm going.

Maybe a rule about know cleaning fish within 200 feet of a boat ramp?? The ramp at PC can be pretty disgusting at low tide, obviously they don't pay much attention to that rule there.

kyle

[SandyRiverFisher]

Hi everyone!

ya know, I was thinking about posting something on this subject. The thing is that I would normally say tossing the guts back in the water is acceptable. Typically they are disposed of quickly by the wildlife, and they do provide nutrients to the aquatic ecosystem. What makes this time of year different is the number of fish and the number of fisherpeople. There are holes up on Eagle Creek that are littered with the tongues, gills, and attached vicera of dozens of coho killed in the last few days. Last year there was one particular hole that had the heads and innerds of hundereds of fish piled in the tailout. All the guts laying everywhere creates a look of carnage on the rivers. While its true that they are beneficial to the stream, I think there are more than enouph fish that will be dying in the rivers to supply nutrients to the food chain, and so the guts from harvested fish arent all that important to the rivers right now. Why not pack it out and keep the river a little nicer looking? I personally like fishing over a pristine and clean looking pool, not one littered with rotting guts and fish heads left by other fishermen. Plus, the sight of guts and carnage does give fisherpeople a bad name in the eye of the public. To many it makes us look like fish gluttons, and many blame us for the poor health of some fisheries because of this sort of thing. In my opinion I do believe its best to stay in the publics good favor and so I will pack my fish, guts and all, out of my favorite spots this year. Responsible behavior will help us ensure our right to fish in the future, so if you dont want to take your guts home at least get them out of sight, dont just toss them on the bank or into the water for everyone see and smell for weeks to come.

Just my opinion!

[Jennie@ifish]

I can see that now. Thanks, Sriverfisher!
J

[Deleted User]

yeah, good idea SRF. I think ill do the same.

[Dogfish]

Deep water pools are a good spot, but I usually clean fish at home.

[Deleted User]

As a boy I was taught not to clean fish in the river because it would feed the trash fish (like suckers, etc).

The trash fish would compete for space with the sport fish and take over if too well fed.

Thank you uncle Leo for teaching me well.

[kenaifishn]

Up north in Alaska the havey fish cleaning tables all along the rivers, clean your fish and wash the guts into the river. Also saw something on OPB a while back explaining the importance these decomposing fish have on the ecosystem.
So I'll keep tossing the guts.

bent poles

[boater]

i always bleed my fish after i catch them and clean them after the day of fishing is over or sooner, where i caught them, i never bring fish guts home, to me to bring them home and not leave them is a waste. they do help the eco system, i will continue to toss the guts also.

[SandyRiverFisher]

Hey guys!

I feel the need to clarify my position on discarding guts in the river. Its not that I am against it, just that I feel that if you do it you should be more considerate and make an attempt to place them in a location that is not offensive to other river users. Its important to remember that other fishermen have mixed feelings about the practice, and that non-fishermen use our rivers and have as much right to enjoy the water as us. Obviously, the guts are good for the ecosystem, but maybe like dogfish suggested, toss them into deeper water where they will be less visible, or back into the bushes for the same reason. What I dont like is accumilations, like the before mentioned tailout with literally HUNDEREDS of fish heads, and I also dont care to see guts all over the rocks where I like to stand and will have to smell them. Other than that tossing them back is fine, so toss away, but maybe next time toss them a little further from the bank?

[boater]

i will wade to the middle of the stream and dig a 6 foot hole and put them in it next time. i dont toss them on the bank.

[TideRunner]

In the rulebook under general regulations, it states it is unlawful to "Dispose of dead animal (fish) carcasses, or parts thereof, in Oregon waters". I asked an ODFW at Wheeler about this last year. He told me the rule was intended to keep the water "clean" looking for the public. He exampled the publc dock there at Wheeler where tons of people would see it and complain. He told me it is fine (and good) to return the guts, just use common sense and try to throw it out of site. Just my .02

[Chris Nordling]

I too tend to clean the insides of my and my friends fish at streamside. Just the insides tho, I take the rest of the fish home. I just don't like to have a blood board hanging around, the bees tend to like it too much.
I too can't stand the piles of heads, tails and sometimes whole fillets of fish that tend to accumulate places. It is unsightly, and in some places at lower water times, it flat out stinks images/icons/frown.gif P.U. ! I think some carcasses are o.k, because I too have seen the little guys hangin out and having a dead fish buffett, but these guys can only eat so much at one restaurant. Let's all just try to spread them out a little bit, so all the fish can benefit, not just one school. Speaking of fish carcasses... I'll share a neat story on a new post. Good luck, and tight lines.

Chris images/icons/cool.gif

~ Team U.S.A. ~

[Deleted User]

kenaifishn,
You are right about the cleaning stations. As I remember it though, those stations dumped into fast moving water dispersing thoughout the system rather quickly.

Hey! I've got an idea, throw all your guts and stuff up on the bank so when the next lowlife @$$hole goes to take a dump where you want to fish, we've disgusted him (or her) first. Just venting... images/icons/mad.gif

[Point-of-Sale Clerk]

It is my personal policy to return all non- retained portions of any fish back to a river or riparian area. I try not to place them in slow moving water or in rivers that are TMDL listed for Nitrogen or Phosphorus. I even went as far as to place the heads of the 8 Coho that are currently residing in my freezer in a local stream(not all in the same place). Yes there are many people at DEQ who would not be pleased but data from a recent Canadian study indicates that the further upstream organic nutrients are placed in a river system the more profound their effects.

Perhaps Jennie could contact Charles Corrarino at ODFW to provide a post covering what fishermen should do if they want to do what is right.
He is the fish passage Coordinator and is very up to speed on nutrient loading and its importance to healthy aquatic ecosystems. Last year he was attempting to get these rules changed to encourage placement of organic material into Oregon’s waters.
His e-mail is Charles.a.corrarino@state.or.us
His phone # is 503-872-5252 ext 5431
Fax: 503-872-5701

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: *** Clerk ]

[Deleted User]

First of all , what is the rule? When on the stream I often see where fishermen have cleaned their catch and thrown the guts into the water. I always thought that was acceptable as the fish normally would die in that stream anyway. What do you do? And what does the law say.

friendly fisherman

[fish forever]

re: heads etc. I believe if your fishing Salmon and steelhead that you have to have the body (fins, head, tail) while in transport for species and size identification.

With that said:
- i will field dress at streamside (guts and gills only) and put it in the river
- dont throw stuff on the shore or above the low water mark (i really stinks there and fills your fishing hole area with flies)
- Avoid tossing in public areas like boat ramps, parks, swimming holes
- Keep the head, tail and fins in one piece.

[local_hooker]

bleed the fish, then take the whole thing home, fillet (sp) it real pretty, place entire carcass including guts in a garbage bag, place in the freezer, use later for crab bait. Works for me.

Sean

[fish forever]

re: heads etc. I believe if your fishing Salmon and steelhead that you have to have the body (fins, head, tail) while in transport for species and size identification.

With that said:
- i will field dress at streamside (guts and gills only) and put it in the river
- dont throw stuff on the shore or above the low water mark (i really stinks there and fills your fishing hole area with flies)
- Avoid tossing in public areas like boat ramps, parks, swimming holes
- Keep the head, tail and fins in one piece.

[Silent Lucidity]

Toss the guts in. Gives me something to catch.

[HOGTIDE]

This is a great question...The Law vs. Good Sense. I don't clean my fish in the river anymore, simply for the fear of receiving a citation. Jennie's initial point was a great one, however. ODFW says, "No guts in the stream". ODFW says, Come help us with our carcass program." images/icons/confused.gif images/icons/confused.gif images/icons/confused.gif

Have you ever noticed the dumpsite for Jot's cleaning station on the lower Rogue?....yup, right back into the river!

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: HOGTIDE ]

[Firedog]

I generally toss the guts from my fish back in the river. But like Sandyriverfisher said
use some common sense. When there are as many fish as this year you need to
probably cart them home or you end up with a situation like on the wind in the spring
with guts and carcass's everywhere and it stinks. Sounds like eagle creek is getting to be the same way. Common sense is the key words here.

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: firedog ]

[Vinny]

Filet at home, bag (or double bag) skeleton, put into freezer.

On garbage day, into the pail. Fewer bees!

Just my $0.02.

[Slow Roll]

Another idea for those who don't know quite what to do with the carcass and or guts. If you have a garden or flower patch or are planting bushes regularly, wrap the carcass in newspaper and bury it in the soil about 20 inches down. Makes great fertilizer. images/icons/smile.gif

Just don't get it too shallow or the neighborhood dogs will dig it up and have a nice smelly fish bath. images/icons/grin.gif

As for me, I agree, toss em back in where they won't cause a problem. Make sure you pop the pesky swim bladder or it makes a real nice bobber. Nothing more attactive than watching that float by while your wading. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[OR Coast Range]

Be careful with those carcasses Slow Roll. My neighbor's dog recently died because it contracted salmonella from somewhere.

[Jennie@ifish]

I wrote to Charlie Corrarino.
His reply:

Jen,


I forwarded your question to Barry McPherson and Tom Stahl----they handle the ODFW Stream Enrichment Program. Several years ago, I helped initiate the ODFW carcass placement program so I will give you a quick answer to your question. I expect you will receive a more detailed answer from Tom and Barry.


The law that you reference is a DEQ (or Dept of Ag, I can't recall which) law to prohibit wide spread dumping of livestock carcasses in streams. While on the one hand it was not directed at anglers, there are some situations, particularly in years of abundant fish runs, where anglers create a waste disposal problem, especially around boat landings.


Each year, ODFW must apply for and receive permits from DEQ to place carcasses in streams. The permits are specific to stream location and number of carcasses allowed to be placed in a given period of time. Water quality and nutrient loading have been carefully monitored to determine acceptable levels of carcass loading.


If done properly, carcass placement is a very beneficial program and volunteers like yourself play a vital role in determining the success of the program. Thanks for your interest.


Charlie Corrarino
ODFW Fish Passage Program Coordinator
2501 SW First Ave
P. O. Box 59
Portland, OR 97207


(503) 872-5252 extension 5431

[Point-of-Sale Clerk]

Jennie

Thanks for writing to Mr. Corrarino, sorry his answer was a little vague. You must have told him that you planned to post his response on this BB. I had hoped that by now he had removed the fence post from his backside and would press for us lowly fishermen to aid in the day-to-day organic nutrient supplementation of our rivers. I guess only a professional can toss a dead frozen fish. I wonder what type of training the fish must have to learn to die in a spot that is in line with ODFW and DEQ policies (he,he,he)

*** Clerk

[Uncle Bob]

During last winter Steelhead season my buddy and I did quite well, as we pulled out at Carver, we set all 4 fish on the bank. Just by chance there was a state police there. Not wanting to get in trouble, I checked with him before doing any gutting. He didn't have a problem with it. And all the ducks thought it was a good idea.

UB

[Deleted User]

I agree with spreading out the fish parts so a pile doesn't accumulate. Consider that most rivers have cleaner water higher up the watershed. That's one good reason to clean your fish upriver - such as on the way home along the upper Wilson River. The other reason was mentioned; that it's more beneficial to the ecosystem further up the river. ... If there is no good alternative and you don't want to take the entrils home, just put them into the tackle boxes or duffle bags of guys with the means but habitually won't help with gas expenses. images/icons/grin.gif

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: RT ]

[Grant Scheele]

I and a few of my friends have started doing something a little different. After filleting out the fish, we run whats left over to a local creek that supports Salmon & Steelhead and deposit them. In theory this sounds like a good practice to me but I do worry about the possible transfer of disease from one watershed to another. Does a biologist out there think that we should stop doing this or are we ok?

[crabbait]

When you are disposing of fish parts please remember the dog owner. Just a small taste of salmon that has been in fresh water can lead to salmon poisoning of someones prized pet. If immediate diagnosis and attention is not rendered the disease is fatal.

I would hate to lose my lab becasue someone dumped fish guts in shallow water or on the bank. Even fish blood can carry the parasite that causes this disease.

Please, drop it deep or take it home. Thanks

[CATCH AND EAT]

Suate'd with Udon noodles some parts of the guts make excellent exotic eats. Fish brains and checks are yummy images/icons/grin.gif Just kidding.

Really, I see no problems with leaving the innards as long as they are placed into the deep part of the hole. While fishing the Wind River I pulled up my share of carcusses. They sure don't fisht much images/icons/wink.gif Leaving the guts insures that there is enough feed for them little critters coming down stream. Makes for good years like this year. If a officer tickets you be sure to tell him to remove the guts from the stream or call DEQ. What a dumb rule! images/icons/tongue.gif

[KrystalFlash]

I guess I'll have to start carrying my dive gear with me so that after I clean the fish I can dive down to the bottom and dredge it out about 4 or 5 feet and bury the guts images/icons/smile.gif Or maybe a portable incinerator mounted on the boat is in the near future. I suppose that soon we'll have to wait until we get home to clean the fish... I which case I will be in dire need of a lifetime supply of smell-proof trash bags to keep the wife happy....anyone know how I can get ahold of a Gladware rep?....
Just use good judgement. Dispose of the remains in an appropriate manner. Use your head...and you'll be in great shape...Well, some of us will, others....well...ask a friend. images/icons/smile.gif

Better Lucky Than Good!

Team 'Double G'
Team 'Pilar'
Team 'What's that smell?'
Team 'Plug?.....What Plug?'

[Hoosier Daddy]

Law says you can't do it in Oregon. So I don't. I realize it's kind of stupid in light of carcass planting, but I just don't think the law has caught up with the science yet. It requires a permit from DEQ to plant carcasses, so they may have some impact on why you aren't supposed to dump guts, don't know. My take on why it's that way in the first place is because of one reason. You know the lazy ***** would dump all their guts in one spot, right in front of the boat ramp, and you would end up with a pile right there. Not something I want to see. Just my 0.02

[Jeffhead]

For me it's just like what I did with the guts from the silver buck I pulled from the zipperlip today.....they all go back in the river period!!! Good for nature, and no smell in the garbage can!!!
Good luck and tight lines, Jeff images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif

[Mr. Fisherman]

I suck in my gut when a cutie goes by images/icons/shocked.gif...

Uh, ohh... you mean fish guts...

[Jennie@ifish]

Just in from Thomas Stahl

Hi Jen.


Charlie did a good job explaining the program. Maybe I can go into a little more depth for you.


The carcass placement program is an ODFW program to place hatchery fish carcasses (we get them from our hatcheries, not individuals) in streams to supplement the nutrients in the watershed that are not there due to decreased salmonid runs. The importance of nutrients released by decaying salmonid carcasses for the entire watershed has been researched over the last decade and these nutrients have been found to be very important to many organisms - not just fish. Therefore our placement efforts might help raise the "carrying capacity" for juvenile salmonids in a stream - which means more fish. Our biologists generally work with volunteers to get this program carried out (i.e. carcasses placed). If you want to help out, you should give your local biologist a call and see if s/he is doing carcass placement (we do not do it everywhere in the state, though there is an extensive program in your area).


One thing about our program is that we have to get a yearly permit from DEQ (the state Department of Environmental Quality) in order to be able to do it. This is because, as the law you quoted notes, it is not always good to place dead fish carcasses in streams, even though they can be beneficial in places. We only have authority to place fish carcasses in certain parts of certain streams throughout the state - places DEQ and us are pretty sure will not be harmed in terms of effects on other organisms or water quality. Thus, to participate in the program, you need to work with ODFW staff - you can't just place carcasses in the stream on your own without prior local ODFW contact. We have some pretty strict guidelines we follow in placing these fish.


I hope this answers your questions. If you have any others, please let me know.


Sincerely,


Tom

************************************************** ******
TomStahl
R&E/STEP Program Coordinator
Grass Carp Permit Coordinator
Stream Enrichment Program Coordinator
Fish Division
Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife
2501 SW First Ave., PO Box 59
Portland, OR 97207
(503)872-5252x5429
(503)872-5632 (fax)
Thomas.Stahl@state.or.us