Suggestion on how to slow down Snaggers !

[FM2]

Snagging is a huge problem this year as many, many people have seen and posted. Maybe the next time out to a popular fishing hole that people are intentionally snagging fish, a person could suggest that "you heard the staters were watching this place for snaggers" that this might somewhat help slow these people down.

There has been many different tatics suggested but require risk to speak up, but maybe by insuitating the place might be watched, this might help to put some fear in the one's who are doing this. This is a psychological tatic that might put people on the watch or at least look over their shoulder if they heard a statement like this. This would not put the person initiating the statement at risk for making this statement thus not exposing them.

We need to somehow put some fear in those snagging as they also know there is a shortage of enforcement. We need to outsmart the perpatrators.

It's time to get creative!!

Of course snaggers could also be reading this but if you are.... images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif

[boater]

some downrigger fisherman set there gear up in the salt just for snagging, a guy at work told me of all the fish he has caught this year and hardly any are hooked in the mouth, he uses the new non-stretch line and a hot spot flasher with a short leader behind it , i told him he wasnt a sport fisherman and we got into an argument over it. snagging is not only in rivers.

[SandyRiverFisher]

Hi everyone!

Im all for stopping snaggers, as everyone knows, but if you come down to a hole full of 'em dont say a word. Just slip out and call the cops. Trust me, on many rivers this year chances are excellent that there is a state cop on patrol in the area busting these guys and they will reply to your call. Making them think they will get caught is one thing, seeing that they get caught is the best thing.

Like I said before, the cops love a good description and a license plate number.

[FM2]

SRF, I would really like all of these people busted but the reality is a small percentage is. Phones are not readily available especially when the act is committed. A new thought process on how to divert this activity might be what's needed to figure out a deterrant, and people NEED TO SPEAK UP!

Think of the ratio of snagging holes vs enforcement and check out all the threads that are directed to snaggers, this is a frutstration shared by many.

I think maybe it's time to be a little more creative to protect the fishery many people respect and this year especially, many people disrespect.

Throw out some new ideas! Help Stop the snaggers!!

[ 09-29-2001: Message edited by: FM2 ]

[rob allen]

my solution.. Although it may not be perfect or even good but this is it.

1. increase fines and penalties 1000 dollar fine and lifetime loss of license privledges.

2. make it easier for the officer in court, as it is now if a case goes to court the officer has to prove the intent to snag. Plunking a straight corkie for instance, the method itself shows intent!!
Jigging should also be illegal and show the intent of snagging. ( I mean verticle jigging **buzz bombs etc. not fishing a jig and float) In other words the experience of the officer should carry more weight with the judge than what the snagger says.

3. hire more enforcement!!!

4 close down fisheries where snaggers are a persistant problem (sorry guys the fish are worth it)

[FISHFINDER]

Rob,

I have tried to keep my emotions from getting in the way of this snagging issue but with all the posts lately I can't hold back any longer. If this sounds at all directed at your thoughts, don't worry, I am as against it as you are.

I don't think that the laws should be able to tell us what to use for bait. Small corkies and a small piece of yarn can be very effective during certain times of the year and I, myself have legally caught many species of fish using this method. Buzzbombs and nordic jigs have also caught fish legally for me. I have never foul hooked a fish using the weighted jigs for the simple reason that I know how to fish them properly and without intent to snag. Plunking corkies and yarn can also be done without foul hooking fish. If a person learns the difference between a line rub and a bite, foul hooking can be avoided as well.

I know many fishermen, including myself that have unintentionally foul hooked fish. This should not be the reason to dictate what kind of bait set-ups to use and not to use.

It is our responsibility as law-abiding fishermen to take action through education and reporting the blatant snaggers and not let it go until the bad apples ruin it for all of us.

I laid my *** out on a limb last spring and confronted a guy twice my size about fishing illegal water on my home river. The game warden was notified and actually chased the guy down because he had a license number. He was cited. Later on in the year I confronted another guy at Drano lake about how many fish he had put in the box. He stopped fishing and left.

It does work to speak up.

No disrespect intended Rob. Just fired up about the selfish idiots.

FF

[ 09-29-2001: Message edited by: FISHFINDER ]

[Deleted User]

I totally agree with you fishfinder. Very well put. I also applaude you for not being afraid to approach a violator and tell them whats wrong with their actions

friendly fisherman

[FRESHSALMONROE]

OK. SPIDER WIRE AND 7 OR 8 OZ WEIGHT SIMPLE WHEN THE IDOIT SNAGS HIS UNLUCKY FISH, CAST OVER HIS LINE, YANK ,THAN YANK, THAN YANK TRUST ME IT GOES BYE, BYE. WE PRACTICE THIS RULE ALL THE TIME, IN EVERY RIVER WE VISIT. PLEASE ALWAYS HAVE THE EXTRA POLE READY. THE SATISFACTION IS UN-REAL. IT WORKS,WHOOO WHO YA. BE IN A BOAT OR HAVE THE CROWD ON YOUR SIDE. HE IS THICK, LONG, AND WHITE AND MADE IN THE U.S.A I CALL MY POLE THE -----ELIMINATOR---- JACK
SALMONROE.NET
[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: FRESHSALMONROE ]

[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: FRESHSALMONROE ]

[hustlerrjim]

I would rather have a snagger as a frend than a stool pidgeon,Try being a public known stool pigeon and see what happens.better yet, get a bumper sticker that says I am a stool pidgeon and turn in snaggers.and hope to hell the local mafia dosn't show up.

[FISHFINDER]

Hustler-

Your reply troubles me. That type of response to snagging makes you part of the problem, not the solution. There is a difference between a stool pidgeon and someone who is sick and tired of the behavior and is willing to give back something to the resource instead of just taking.

FF

[Scarecrow]

I agree with you FISHFINDER! Reporting a fishing violation is a responsible thing and not a cowardly act as some see it. Illegal fishing methods hurt everyone in the long run. Take care.

[FishinMission]

I'm for reporting to the "officials". If there's an area you're in that people are snagging, they'll usually be back another day. So...if the gamies can't there at that particular moment, at least they'll be aware of the situation, and perhaps maybe be there when another incidence occurs. Totally "not cool".

Sidenote here...While at the mouth of the Sandy last Thursday afternoon, I observed one boat in particular "drift fishing" Buzz Bombs. Every time they hooked a fish...the boat owner would get his net in the air, and act like he was the fishing "King"...as no one else was hooking anything. I was just sick of not only what was going on, but of seeing this guy once again. His day is coming!

[Silent Lucidity]

I caught my only steelhead on a corkie and yarn. He was very legally hooked.

I also recall a VERY effective steelie lure called a "Steelie Stopper" which was basically a rubbery egg slipped over the shank of a hook with a little yarn for good measure. Darned near a fly, but still basically a float and yarn.

[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: Silent Lucidity ]

[HT Buzzo]

It seems like the majority of this problem occurs in specific holes on specific rivers- the concrete bridge over eagle creek, the hwy 101 hole on the salmon, etc. The feds have an unlimited supply of little cameras that are about the size of a small flashlight they put in concealed forest areas to catch pot-growers and the like. Hide a few of these in the problem areas- one officer could monitor all of the cameras. After a person is witnessed snagging, send out an officer, get witnesses from the fishing hole, and convict. Not just a fine, either. If we start taking away rods, reels, boats, tackle, and trucks- anything used to facilitate that anglers snagging- people will quickly change their ways.
Just a thought. I'm not much in favor of people getting their kicks out of senseless snagging because they think they deserve a fish. I've spend countless days and money trying to perfect my fishing so I don't have to snag- these guys have no respect for the pacific northwest and all of the people born and raised here-we will always cherish and protect its value.
HT

[TheRogue]

FishFinder hits it right, excellent post. And I'd like to add.....not everyone is intentionally snagging....on the Salmon River, which is one of the spots that people always scream about, I have never seen a fish snagged, scooped, and carted off to the rig in the middle of the crowd. Does it happen?? Probably, but not very often. One phrase: Peer Pressure!!! No-one is going to allow that to happen!!! Are there areas where there's a group of intentional snaggers, where peer pressure means nothing?? I'm sure there are....never fished Eagle Creek, and some of the other places that are on the list. For those areas, use your video camera, cell phone, etc. For Heaven's sake, don't get into fisticuffs or a pistol fight over a ****** fish!!!

I don't snag fish intentionally....I know how to tell between a line rub and a bite. Does the person next to you on the bank??Educate everyone around you!! Are they jerking at every slow pull, yanking ever time a fish swirls around their line?? Maybe they just don't know!! A good percentage of these people don't have a clue. They just drive by, see all the people, and go for it.

Just think before you react...90+ percent of the people out there just want to have fun. I just shudder to think that eventually something will happen at a crowded hole that will result in people getting beaten up, shot or drowned: all for a fish that would be cheaper to go buy in the store.

My .02, sorry if I p-o'd some people, I sure I did.

kyle

[hustlerrjim]

I firmly stand on my conviction snagging has it's place.Go to the n.fork hatchery and watch them pitch fork thousands of bright coho into totes destined for pet food and maybe youll see why I have testified at the commission hearings to open the n.fork to snagging 1/2 mile below the hatchery.
these fish were produced for human consumption and should be used for that purpose,
just because a few zealots have the beleif it is morally wrong dosn't make sense to waste all these fish when they could be harvested and utilized for the pupose they were raised.

[ampersat]

there have been a lot of suggestions in this thread. i'll just highlight the ones i'd actually vote for, if it were up to me.
1. cameras - gotta have the proof to get 'em in court.
2. suspension of license - maybe not for life but for five years, minimum.
3. confiscation of gear - take it all. any fishing gear. i'd let 'em keep their car, but the boat goes if there is one. any and all rods and any other fishing related gear.
4. STEEP fines - get 'em in the wallet and make it hurt.

by the way, can you tell after the fact how a fish was hooked? i got a silver a few weeks back and the hook went completely through his upper jaw. later, i noticed that area was significantly lighter than any other portion of his face. is it always that way?

[FM2]

There are many great ideas floating around on this subject.

I have a suggestion: Maybe a coalation of members of Ifish, NW Steelheaders, Oregon Anglers and other pro-active entity's put together a task force to determine what should be done about snaggers. Some time could be spent video taping snaggers in progress, data could be gathered from law enforcement regarding this activity and compile this information and present it the ODFW. This could also include recommendations on fines, punishment, enforcement, etc. on how snaggers could be brought to justice. I know this could be complicated and time intensive, but a task force of fisherman could have an impact down the road. Snagging is a problem this year, will be the next year and in years to come. It's never to late to start.

Creativness is what is needed ASAP!!

[hustlerrjim]

I firmly stand on my conviction snagging has it's place.Go to the n.fork hatchery and watch them pitch fork thousands of bright coho into totes destined for pet food and maybe youll see why I have testified at the commission hearings to open the n.fork to snagging 1/2 mile below the hatchery.
these fish were produced for human consumption and should be used for that purpose,
just because a few zealots have the beleif it is morally wrong to snag dosn't make sense to waste all these fish, when they could be harvested and utilized for the pupose they were raised.

[FM2]

Hello Jim, we do know each other but not by these monikers.

You have a valid point regarding the n.frk but most people are discussing this in terms of the many places which illegal snagging takes place. I know you have a passion to help the n.frk in anyway but please don't let that get in the way of the lawbreakers who are giving the legitmate and honest people a bad name when it comes to snagging on NW rivers.

I wish you the best and if I can help please send me an email to let me know what I can do to help.

[rob allen]

They did that on the Washougal for year, they had a legal snag fishery at the salmon hatchery
, only problem was it soon spread throughout the entire river ans soon infested other rivers including the north lweis. People who snag and or line bump fish have no place on our rivers! They are the scum of the earth! They ruin the fishing for everyone else to fulfill their own selfish greed. O have a wide range of fishing experience and have seen snagging ruin opportunities for legit anglers everywhere I have gone in the fall.

The Washougal
The North Lewis
the Kalama
the Satsop
the Wilson
the Trask
the Naselle
and everywhere in between!!

I am absolutely sick and fed up with these horrible people!! And thats exactly what they are their actions prove that!
I make no apologies for my opinions on this if your offended well quit snagging!
you never know when that next line bump that you set up on will be a wild steelhead hen so don't fish that way!

[SandyRiverFisher]

Hi guys!

Ok, maybe snagging has its place on some rivers, but I have yet to see it. The belief that hatchery fish were produced for human consumption is false. The US fish and wildlife Service manages our fisheries to provide recreation, not necessarily to provide maximum harvest. Snagging is hardly recreational. Those who do it are bent on greed, all they care about is killing as many fish as possible. They totally lack all the virtues that fishing is supposed to instill upon a person. They lack the patience, the persistence, and the respect for the resource that other fishermen have. They have no respect for the law or their fellow fishermen, and thus they give ALL fishermen a bad name. If you think your right to fish in and use our rivers is god given you are sorely mistaken. People like snaggers sway public opinion away from fishermens interests, often resulting in a loss of fishermens rights. Prolific snagging eventually leads to restrictions on stream access by private landowners, and maybe even harsh gear restrictions in some water. Whats more, the affect that a snagging fishery may have on any wild component of the run is reason enouph to prohibit it, and the affect it has on the behavior of the fish themselves is very negative from the viewpoint of an ethical fisherman. in other words, snaggers are largely responsible for the severe case of "lockjaw" that takes away from the success of those of us who are actually trying to FISH, not to snag.

With all due respect to HustlerJim, Ive never been to the North Fork and for all i know his ideas about a snag fishery below the hatchery are valid. However, the idea that those fish are for consumption is not right. They were produced to provide a recreational fishery, and they serve that purpose very well to those of us who fish legitimately. All this is not to say that I like them being turned into pet food, but I would rather see those 'bright' fish that the hatchery kills go to charity than see a Snag fishery ruin any of our rivers. Snagging represents the opposite of what fishing is all about.

[Hookset]

Sandyriverfisher, I agree with you 100%, well said. You made a very good point against snagging that should be backed by all fisherpeople. Opening up any particular section of water to snagging only creats future hardships for recreational fisherpeople. These days, we have to understand the image this portrays to the general public. Sports Fisherpeople need to abid by the rules of fair chase, in my book, snagging DOES NOT fall under these rules. I can't see any good coming from snagging, only lost opportunities.

Snagging is poaching, period. Turn in poachers using the hot line, now what was the hot line number? 1-800-TIP?

Gregg

[Deleted User]

SRF,
Well put once again. You nailed it!
Keep it comming.

friendly fisherman

[Deleted User]

Hustlerjim-erickson, you have become elderly and that's only to be respected. But not your old fashioned outdated ideals and terminology, such as "stoolpigeon". Your head is likely in the sand about what has become of the world. I bet you aren't aware that some young "stoolpigeons" now have the ability to avert the shooting of hundreds of school kids; a nation wide growing problem that could have been averted by stoolpigeons that were taught by the ignorant to not "squeal". We need more stoolpigeons in society Jim! It might have saved the World Trade Centers, untold lives, and years of war and economic chaos. Please don't discust us with you utter old fashioned shortsightedness! While nowhere near as important as those examples of needed 'sqealing', none-the-less, not reporting and thwarting intended heavy snagging is the same principle of not doing the right thing Jim! Also re-read Rob Allen's post, correctly explaining that state endorsed snagging can and will give the notion to a heck of a lot of 'fishermennot' the mindset it's not a bad thing to do; and as proven, it spread like a cancer to many more places where it's worse to do than at a hatchery fish stackup in the river. Included would be native fish in places, and generations of kids that are and will be learning from their lowlife parents to do unlawful wrongs! There are better ways to harvest excess hatchery fish to give the needy food to eat than to let some break the law with expensive fishing gear!!! Hatchery holding pond roundups and non-gillnet fine mesh seine netting stackup holes upriver past sportfishing areas are a couple of expamples. Tune in.

And for 'Pete's sake'! I still respect you Pete from what I know about you, but this is not your best moment in a thread! You say "one who stabs people in the back" for reporting a crime that could close rivers, take some native fish, teach untold dumb ***** that snagging is somehow OK, and give filmed evidence of the cruelty of 'fishing' to PETAs that are trying harder nowdays to shut down all sportfishing?!?!? Oooouch! Get real on that one Pete. In the not-so-distant future, would you rather your child "stab someone in the back" by being a stoolpigeon and telling of a student's plan to shoot up the school - or have your child properly report the information? I think you somehow must know that answer, and that what you posted is out of whack.

I agree with what FM2 posted here at 7:09 pm that a multi-faceted and comprehensive plan of action, as suggested, is a very good idea, for starters.

I've asked to be pardoned for long rants before, but not for this one!

[boater]

we have already had fishin holes closed simply because of snaggers and the lack of enforcement, i have talked to dick geist in olympia more than once about this, he told me it was closed because of the above reasons, i dont consider myself a stool pidgeon but i am not going to sit back and watch snaggers have more of my fishin holes closed, why should i. this isnt about being a stool pidgeon it`s about people that are snagging fish and they know exactly what they are doing, they know when they head to a river or where ever that they are going to snag fish, i just cant see saying nothing about this, what are you going to do when your fishin spot is closed because of snaggers, move to the next hole and have them close it down to, if i see a snagger i`m calling the cops or the game dept., call me whatever you want, a stool pidgeon or whatever the **** you want, i have a reason to turn these creepy shmeepies in and if i can keep them from closing any more of our fishin holes i wont hesitate to turn them in.

[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Saukie]

I highly recommend you know the FACTS BEFORE you say someone is snagging...I have been Jigging several times this year..have had had several boats give me "Flack" saying I was attemping to snag...So far from the truth...while jigging...1 of every 10 fish I have I have hooked have been "Fouled Hooked"...but have been released and additionally while jigging on the upward pull if a fish is hit 99% it is snaged...I take this very personally...I am very much involved in Salmon Habiat, NW Steelheaders and respect fellow fisher-persons in boating and space...I a think that before you call "Snagging"...YOU are basing you call on the facts..and if so..I agree 200% that these snagger be called on it and reported...

[TheRogue]

No different than the plunking corky/yarn issue....don't put a label on someone because of pre-concieved notions!!!

kyle

[HT Buzzo]

Where's the ODFW and state police in this issue? Are they just making random visits and waiting for our phone calls. Taxpayers backed the money for habitat restoration and we're willing to foot the bill for increased enforcement. Its not our job to be out there calling the cops and turning people in. Occasionally it is, but not all the time.
Like I said in an earlier post, the state has the resources to monitor a large portion of these problem areas through video surveillance- they wouldn't necessarily have to be there every day. Fisherman do have a duty to let other ignorant anglers know when they are doing something out of line. I'm usually one of the first to point out if I see a fish stuck in the belly, and I'll let these guys know that its a stupid idea. All you have to do is say you saw the state cop with binocs on the other side of the river the day before handing out citations, but an angler task force trying to uphold the law?- all I see is someone getting shot or beaten, and it would probably be someone on the good side. Encourage local law enforcement to handle this situation, and instead of just talking about it on ifish, email the governor and our representatives- everyone!
HT

[rob allen]

hmm when I salmon fish I use spinners or bait or flies. 1 fish in the last 20 years was foul hooked!! thats one out of 1000.
I have never seen anyone plunking a corkie without bait that was not snagging!!
Maybe such a situation exsists but I have never seen it.

[TheRogue]

Rob....I would be happy to take you to the Salmon River, or Pacific City (though I prefer to stay away from that place), and show you what many of us are talking about. Just zap me an e-mail and we'll meet somewhere down my way, and we'll go.

I find it hard to believe that in the 1000 fish you've caught, there's only been one foul-hooked fish, however, I'll definitely give you the benefit of the doubt on that. I, for one, am not a person to fling a "liar" label around on this board.

So, a salmon will take a fly, in whatever pattern you're talking about, but won't take a corky and yarn without bait on it?? Now that's certainly interesting.

kyle

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: TheRogue ]

[Hoosier Daddy]

Wow.
RT - good post above, thanks.
My thoughts. I hate snaggers. That said, there are in fact some places where it maybe should be legal. I wouldn't go do it, but...... However, RT's PETA point is a good one. How does it look to those who want to take our fishing away, or to those who are on the fence, to see hard-core snagging taking place? Bad.
Someone mentioned recognizing snagged fish after harvest. My take on this has always been that if you keep a fish with a fresh wound in it's side, whether you hooked it in the mouth or whatever, you are at SOME risk of being popped by OSP for it.
Which brings up another point. I personally don't like the idea of giving OSP a lot more authority than they have. We have all heard the stories, and many of us have had "run ins" with overzealous OSP cadets and officers. I don't want more "interpretation" involved than necessary, because the fact is, as great a job as these guys do, and I have a lot of respect for most of them, they do ocassionally make mistakes. I wouldn't want said mistake costing me MY fishing license. Say you are fishing a hole that is known to be used by snaggers, an OSP that has been ****** off by chasing these a-holes all season is watching as you cast out, feel a bite, and reef back on it. Might he think you are snagging in some cases? Like I say, I have a lot of respect for the OSP guys, but I don't want them having that much power. What we need is MORE of them. As budgets get cut, officers are asked to cover bigger and bigger areas.

If you see snaggers, either report them, confront them (often not a good idea), or pick up your cell phone and talk into it while nodding and giving them a dirty look. That should at least get rid of them. Better yet, use the phone to call OSP or the poacher hotline.

[Nanook]

Don't repeatedly snag in front of me, after I am nice and ask you to stop. You will not like the outcome, trust me. images/icons/shocked.gif

[rob allen]

Kyle The reason i have foul hooked so few fish is because of the methods I use.

For one I don't fish in places where there are large concentrations of fish .
The one time I did was on the Washougal
with a steelie spoon first cast I snagged a wild summer run buck out a pool filled with coho!! I was so disgusted that i went home. I returned the next day and fished eggs with no weight and caught a limit of beautiful bright coho. I fished in a run that had fewer fish. Meanwhile the corky plunkers on the other side of the river were yelling across the river to me urging me to keep that wild steelhead.
If you are using a method in which you foul hook fish on a regular basis you have to give serious consideration as to the validity of your method!

As far as fly patterns for salmon
Paint brush
silver and Orange
winters hope
brads brat
general practitioner
find a small pod of coho cast out let the fly sink a little then strip the fly in, sometimes giving it a little twitch
basically fish it just like a spinner. and avoid slow moving pools with large concentrations of fish!

[TheRogue]

Again, Rob, I have to say, I do not foul hook fish...I have trouble with your fixation on that. And you don't fish large concentrations of fish?? Well, that's just fine for you. I personally like to fish where there's the best chance of catching a fish. I happily fish in February and March for Wild Steelhead, and happily release them. I continue to fish sturgeon in the Columbia below Bonneville, knowing I have to release everything...happy as a clam.

However, the thought of not fishing the good holes because there's too many fish, well, that's just not my mentality. Sorry, I guess I'm just fated to be a horrid "snagger" images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif

Trying to keep this light-hearted, but it's getting tough. I think I'll leave this thread alone for a while.

Kyle

[DanS]

Hey everyone,

hustlerrjim made an intelligent post.

Oh, hold it...........no he didn't.

Never mind...........

[rob allen]

Kyle I didnt say you snag fish. As I stated above matbe there are situations where plunking a corkie is lagit, I simply havent seen that in my travels. Often as many anglers know the most productive spots arent necessarily the pools where salmon congregate many good spots are but not all of them and thoes that arent are oftem more conistant because they reciebe less pressure.

[Silent Lucidity]

I've snagged a couple trout and a sturgeon in my time. And I'm hardly a part-time angler.

Accidental snagging happens, but not every trip.

[BUGLEMAN]

I am now ******! Not really, but am wanting to do something about the lowlife white/black/red/brown trash that seem to think that snagging and getting our prime fishing holes closed is OK.

Here is the update on the situation I witnessed on Friday. This year I discovered the mouth of Big Cr @ Nappa Svenson. I knew the net pen fishery and hatchery at Big C. ment there could be an excellent tidewater opportunity at the mouth of Big C. So, I nosed around and found an excellent hole filled with chinook and I mean STACKED also with just as many beligerant snaggers.

I talked to Seargent Scroupp in Astoria today and here the deal. The cops know about situation at the mouth and have run all kinds of stings. Hiding in bushes, observing from a boat and plain clothed officers fishing. One day this year they did a sting and issued 12 citations. The very next day a fish checker went down there and was threatened. He/she was told you have got alot of nerve comming down here dressed like that and a gun was mentioned etc. Seargent Scroupp said the tressle will be closed next year. That will severly limit the access to the fish and opportunity.

I have been there twice and it is the same people over and over. These people are poachers and criminals. I wish they would throw the book at these guys and not just slap them on the wrist. I mean if you close a fishing hole these criminals will just go somewhere else.

I learned from Seargent Scroupp that they closed big creek in Sept due to the snaggers. That creek is loaded with fish right now but the main run is through and is now on the darkside as it opens today, Oct. 1. I think the problem is with enforcement and I realize as others have said we need to make these fatherless snaggers pay.

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: BUGLEMAN ]

[TheRogue]

veiled threats with references to guns is a felony offense...hopefully someone's charged??

I have never fished in areas like you're describing....I can see why you're fired up, I would be too!!!

[4Salt]

Up here in WA, it is abundantly clear that there is either some hidden agenda, or bizzare logic being used at WDFW as a reason for blatantly overlooking all of the snagging and poaching going on during the fall salmon season. We've ALL heard the excuse that budgetary constraints keep the wardens spread pretty thin and unable to be everywhere at once. In an earlier post, someone said that these activities usually happen at certain places on certain rivers. That is EXACTLY what happens here in WA also. I'd bet any one of the WA members could name at least 20 areas where snagging is the norm. Which leads me to my point: WHY THE **** DOESN'T THE STATE JUST POST WARDENS AT THESE SIGHTS!. The revenue earned from just one season of writing citations could TRIPLE the enforcement budget. The state MUST know this? So why aren't they capitalizing on it? The only conclusion I can draw is that it must be too time consuming to prosecute all of the offenses? I wish I knew the answer to why the state seems to turn it's back on snagging, especially at terminal hatchery areas. As long as human nature continues to make us greedy, there will ALWAYS be those that think that they can do whatever they want and get away with it. Until the WDFW decides to start cracking down (which will probably NEVER happen, at least not in my lifetime images/icons/rolleyes.gif ) We will always have a problem with snaggers. images/icons/mad.gif

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: 4Salt ]

[Silent Lucidity]

Just a clarification: Big Creek has closed on 01 Sept for years, and not just this year. It's closed then to protect and preserve the main run, which agreeably was very healthy this year.

The example listed by Bugle above is not unusual, and it is no wonder why game officers have a rough time hiking into these places to issue citations. They are outnumbered, outgunned images/icons/shocked.gif , and too far off from the road to make a run for it if things get rough. These game officers are PEOPLE, and are not willing to risk their life over a few fish. It's just not worth it.

I've seen posts on this board and others mitching and boaning about game officers that are doing their jobs. It's hard to know what to do about this, because snaggers justify their actions as just another way to "harvest" the fish that their tax dollars pay to raise instead of the hatchery selling the fish to rendering plants.

My dad wonders why I refuse to go salmon fishing alone anyplace that I don't know, as he fished for years by himself and that is how he met his fishing buddies. Maybe it's me, but I'm not aware of any fishing opportunities that are worth potentially leaving my kids without their father.

It's ugly, and I'm not sure there is a way to clean it up without calling up the reserves. All I know is that I'm seriously considering going back to trout fishing.

[Deleted User]

Let's see hustlerjim says a snagger is better than a stool pidgeon oh and he also thinks a "little gill-netting" is fine too! Pete thinks snagging may help eliminate non-biters....what brilliance! So you can see where these fine sportsmen are coming from. Snagging is low-class Jim, are you low class? Do you need fish that bad? **** I'll give you some of mine if you need it that bad. So what do you think Jenny? Gonna be politcally correct here? We wouldn't want to **** off the advertisers would we? Yeah Mustad makes some outstanding 8\0 treble hooks don't they?
MoMouth images/icons/mad.gif

[hustlerrjim]

sandy river you are wrong about the n.f. nehalem hatchery being built for the recreation fishery it was built by paul hanneman for the commerrcial fishery when he was in legislation.maybe you ought to get off the yellow line and look around the real world.

[FISHFINDER]

This issue continues to really **** me off!

Number one, as I stated in an earlier post directed towards Rob Allen's first post, there is nothing, I repeat nothing that should be said about plunking corkies with or without bait by a fisherman that knows what he is doing.

Number two, all of this hostility towards fellow fisherman that are as passionate about the sport should be directed towards the snaggers and not each other. No one should tell another what technique he should use to fish.

Here's what I did:
Yesterday I took my Dad and my kids to Drano Lake. We had a great day fishing and ended it by driving up to the hatchery to show the kids all of the fish kegged up by the hatchery. Just as I finished explaining to my four-year-old daughter what an awesome act of nature it is for a salmon or steelhead to hatch in the river, go to the ocean and return to the same river, I look up and see a guy and his son standing at the deadline and casting upriver above the deadline. Infuriated, I leave the kids with my dad and march down there to clarify what I think I see from a distance. When I get closer, it is confirmed. They are casting over black fish and snagging. The dad hooks one and hands the rod off to the kid. He lands it with hook in belly and throws it on the bank. I ask him if he's going to keep the snagged fish. He says it wasn't snagged, I say I saw the whole thing. Very nervous at this point, he marches the fish and his kid up the bank toward me and continues to deny it. They went to their car and left. I got their license number and reported them. Hopefully he'll think twice about doing it next time.

Now, I don't know if I would have confronted the guy if he would have had more buddies around but I certainly would have made sure I got his license number and reported him. I am fearful of one of these people that are already dumb enough to blatantly break the law. Who knows what lengths they will go to if confronted.

Lets get together on this one guys and gals. Don't sit back and let it happen. Being a "stool pidgeon" as one member put it, may allow our kids to enjoy this resource as much as we do today.

FF

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: FISHFINDER ]

[DanS]

4Salt,

I think you have hit the proverbial nail on the head. You're right that the state could actually MAKE money by issuing citations, but it would be extremly burdensome for an already overloaded judicial system to prosectute the cases. Not only that, but any revenue generated would ultimately wind up in the "General Fund" (aka Black Hole) where our brilliant legislators would no doubt find some other pork project to spend it on. images/icons/mad.gif

The idea that we should not enforce the existing laws because our game wardens are "afraid" or something is ludicrous. They're only afraid because they're outnumbered 100-1 at any snag fest. The solution? Send out MORE enforcement, write tickets, and slap anybody that steps out of line with an obstruction charge. No group of snaggers is going to stand up to a warden with state police backup.

The only thing that REALLY bothers me is the amount of time we waste discussing the problem here, instead of writing our electorate and letting THEM know how much it ****** us off. If word comes down from up high, the laws WILL be enforced. Until THEY know about the problem, we're just peeing into the wind. Send your legislators an email every week, and they'll get the clue. Taking shots at the wardens is pointless, they're not making the decisions about how much enforcement will be used. Sure, they decide how and where to spend the little time they DO have for enforcement, the but the overall focus on cleaning up snag zones must come from up the ladder.

Right now, it's easier to just close known snag fests, or the access to them. That hurts US, and that's what makes hustlerrjim such a joker. If you tolerate snagging ANYWHERE it encourages snagging EVERYWHERE. Sure, the pitch-forking of fish and huge schools of lockjawed fish bugs me, but not enough to promot snagging. If snagging of fish is the extent of your fishing prowess, then stick with the trout farm, where the skill required will match the fishing skills you possess. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[Nanook]

RIGHT ON Fishfinder!

http://gifinator.com/artist/P_Andersson/caughtclr1.gif

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: ****** ]

[SandyRiverFisher]

hustlerjim,

With all due respect, I never said anything about why the North Fork hatchery was built and quite frankly I dont give a damn. Who in the world cares if it was built to create a commercial fishery anyway? That is, unless people like you would like to be able to sell the fish you go out and snag.

What I did say is that the Fish and Wildlife service manages the resource to provide a recreational angling opportunity, not to maximize harvest, and to that end the fishery is successfull. like I said, I would rather see surplus fish given to charity than see them open a snagging fishery that would be detrimental to the image of the sportfishing community. Like you I dont like seeing good bright fish turned into cat food.

Your the one who needs to open his eyes and take a long hard look at the real world. Can't you see that a lack of ethics will only serve to increase the loss of angling opportunities for all? Your promotion of snagging as a legitimate harvest method only results in the demonizing of fishermen in the eyes of the public. Like I said before, your right to fish in our rivers is not god-given. Abuse the right, or lose the support of the public, and you will lose it and so will all of us.

[FM2]

This is obviously an emotional topic that pushes many peoples buttons. Emotions can be a major roadblock in keeping a rational thought process on this subject. This has been demonstrated by the dialogue between individuals to vent frustrations.

What is needed are solutions to a very obvious problem. This problem has been around for along time but this year it is amplified because of the large returns of fish that was not expected. Planning goes along way but when situations come up like this without a plan the weaknesses are exposed in a larger relm.

I believe there is much agreement about the lack of enforcement and who do you point a finger at for that. Budget cutbacks due to taxpayers frustrations regarding over taxiation, special interest groups, lawmakers ignorance! There are many weaknesses within our system but when the voice of many are heard, that is what will get the attenion of the people who have the decision making power. Having served on national boards, believe me, the ones who made the most noise got the most attention. This matters on whatever issue is targeted.

Also, working from the top down rather than the bottom up gets results. In other words, expressing concerns to the people in the field does not get policies changed. These are the front line folks who follow policy and don't have any decision making authority. Don't get me wrong, if enough of the officers hear the same thing the word does flow uphill which helps in terms of supporting evidence of a problem. People need to respect those doing their job and like in any industry some will do it better than others.

I'm not a pro-government person but I belive to help aleviate this pain many people have regarding snagging something "different" needs to be done. Business as usual only causes additional frustration as the problem does not go away, it grows and festers. This is a time for ifishers to rise up and brainstorm new pioneering and dynamic solutions to a very passionate and emotional problem. The technology is in place, let's take advantage of it and seek a solution!!

Don't let this die folks! I still think a cross section of pro-active fish entity's need to get together along with their members to throw out ideas other than what is currently in place. Unless this happens snagging will continue and frustrations will grow.

[BUGLEMAN]

So we have identified the problem but how do we slow it down. In problem areas of WA has the boyant lure restriction helped to reduce snagging? I am for that in problem areas of OR. Atleast they can write a ticket with out question if they catch some one with one of those nasty 8/O trebs.

[smilesforu]

Ok going to play devils advocate for a minute.....please don't send me tons of nasty emails. If you don't agree don't read this images/icons/tongue.gif

Snagging can and will take place no matter what gear restrictions are placed on the fishery. I have seen it done with all the different gear types. I lost one of my favorite summer run holes because of others snagging it. Does it stop the snagging at the hole...Nope!!, it just keeps honest fishermen from fishing it.
The Quilcene is a interesting managed (used loosely) fishery. It is known that lots of snagging goes on there illegally. A lot of the snagging was done with legal fishing gear. It was the intent of the angler that was not in line with current regulations.
But to remove the excess Quilcene fish they had to open it to tribal snagging. Snagging is a fisheries management technique being used today. Some terminal areas may be better managed for a meat fishery then a sport fishery. I believe Alaska has areas open for snagging and it is widely practiced for the sockeyes.
How do you make ethical snaggers? Force a mandatory Fishermens Education Class to allow fishing in designated snagging areas. These could be the known areas and special zones that need to be managed.
I really don't know how they could have removed all the fish from the Quilcene system with out the use of snagging....or a pitchfork. The shear numbers of fish are overwhelming the systems. We all love lots of fish, but with all the fish in a unbalanced ecosystem there are lots of problems that occur if left unchecked. With that said..
I think some of the snagging is "overlooked because of the shear numbers".
Areas could be opened to fishermen who have passed a ethics class or mandatory gear regulations. It would be quite easy to implement the class system/ regulations if they were in place...we already have it for hunting areas.
I tend to agree with Hustler Jim on the use of snagging as a management tool. Only if proper regulations for the use of snagging was implemented.
Snagging as a management tool has nothing to do with somebody snagging my favorite hole!!

Are the areas you talk about the snaggers suited for a managed snag fishery? I can think of some that it would be easier to change the regulations than enforce the current regulations. Sometimes we are in the minority when fishing using our ethical methods!!
Rembember if we had no fish this wouldn't be a problem!! ok no email remember images/icons/tongue.gif

[hustlerrjim]

Among my degrees, of which I have many,one is on human behavior,which is based on--people beleive only what they want to,and the worse it is the more they beleive it, based on their intelligence level,
Reading the board the other nite I came upon this snagging issue,what better subject could a person find to test Gestalts theory?????some points that have been brought up-- emmotion,legal ,ethics,even to the point it was immoral to snag fish.
So I thought now would be a good time to do a little fishing of my own,and man oh man did I get a bunch of suckers.right here on the web.
snagging is bad in most places as all you people have testified,and I agree with you- surprised?????you shouldn't be if you would have been at the commision hearings and heard bill hedlund and I testify to close all streams in the state above a certain point where spawning takes place.to prevent snagging for eggs.
Bill and I were succsesfull in getting the n.f.closed above the highway 53 bridge 10/1 till 11/30 to prevent snagging and fishing on the spawning beds,where were you then?
I see a lot of lip service here,but no action,only to jump on the bait I set out,
now that you have proven the fact you can write,address your concerns to the people that can do something about them, not to good old Jim,-old????(RTs assumption) the numbers are here all you have to do is channel your anger in the right direction.commision,po. box 59 potland 97207
but, before I leave ,lets look at the reactions I got,
sandy river stated- he didn't give a damn about the n.f. nehalem- just like I don't give a damn about the sandy river maybe this is our problem?but on the other hand where was sandy river when we were fighting the electric weir?????I remember standing alone in front of the commision with video of the carnage,28 steelhead were killed in one day.we got the weir ripped out over that.
I dont give a damn about the sandy but I do care about the n.f. nehalem.
Of all the respones I got ,only one person resorted to name calling and that person couldn't even spell digust.
What have we done to protect "our river"?
first off you find the holes that this horrible practice practice called snagging
is taking place,every body seemed to know of one or two,then you look around, some farmers
back yard and you can find miles of coiled up barbed wire and netting fencing material laying around,string that out in the bottom of your favorite holes people snag in.for starters- the hospital hole, two bit hole piling hole ,trailerhouse hole on the trask,this usualy covers the bottom three feet and puts a halt to the double corky method.and buzz bombs, by the way the n.f. is well seeded this year.
thanks again for the jollies,I haven't had this much fun since the wife obedince shows loretta and i did a few years back.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Hey Jim,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>where spawning takes place.to prevent snagging for eggs <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now I know you've been known to keep foul-hooked fish in closed waters. What's that kettle and pot cliche', Mr. Degree? images/icons/rolleyes.gif And No Sir, thank you for the jollies.

[NEUTRON]

Saukie and Kyle (TR) I appreciate your posts and agree 100%. Some feel (fly angler, spinner fisher or bobber fisher) that their method is the ONLY way. I have a pic on my desk from several years ago with 3 happy anglers with 5 bright nooks caught in short order on a huge incoming tide with nordics.
I KNOW they work, sometimes very well. No two ways about snagging is dead wrong and causes us to loose opportunities. Eagle Creek on the columbia is a great example, 2 years ago they left it open for the first time in 15 years for the hatchery coho. Too many idiots snagging and keeping excess fish,
closed again till when? Jim, know what you can do with yur barb wire? It's probably good for the habitat. Another great post.

[Deleted User]

I think it's safe to assume that good old Jim didn't get any of his "many" degrees in grammar or spelling images/icons/grin.gif As far as keeping dark fish for the eggs....well Jim do you deny it?
MoMouth

[boater]

this is sad, especialy about the snagger that handed his rod of to his kid and then took a piture of there catch, is that what some of you want sports fishing to be ?, offer classes on snagging lol, wow thats smart, just what we need trained snaggers. then we have a guy who wants barbed wire placed in good fishing holes, i realy cant comment on that other than to say just because you have 50 degree`s it doesnt mean you have any common sense. if any fishing spots get opened to snaggers it will be a giant black eye on every fisherman, if you dont believe that you are stupid.

[BUGLEMAN]

Hustlerjim - your recent post here makes me think you are an intellectual imbecile, even if what you say is true or false. Barbwire in fishing holes. Those fish you are "protecting" need those holes to rest and hold. Ever notice that they sit on the bottom where your barbed wire is currently located. Judging by your writing style I would say that you got your degrees from Shelly Struthers.

[ 10-02-2001: Message edited by: BUGLEMAN ]

[FISHFINDER]

Well, I think we beat the snagging horse to death. I for one will continue to use my current methods for fishing and welcome anyone to come along to show how effective they are at certain times. I will also continue to report snaggers as I see them and hope others will do the same.

I also hope a certain member will take his sick little "experiments" elsewhere and keep his trash out of a river that does not belong there. Where did he get permission to screw it up up for us and the fish? This board does not need that sort of negative, childish games.

I come here to swap fishing stories and find ways to improve the resource.

FF

[Silent Lucidity]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hustlerrjim:
Of all the respones I got ,only one person resorted to name calling and that person couldn't even spell digust.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jim, you have pitched so many stones inside that glass house of yours that you'd better hope for a mild winter. Let's move on to different topics before you end up having to pull more shoe leather from between your teeth.

[hustlerrjim]

what a reaction to a subject---snagging--- 58 posts, can you imagine the power you people would have if you would direct your energy toward something worthwhile?????
lets take the sandy river navigatin issue,not that I give a damn about it but now that you have proven you can write- direct your attention toward that issue that is a **** of a lot more important to you flat landers than snagging.
looking back through the responses,that were posted,there were only 2 people that came up with a rational solution fm2 and bugle mouth. 9 people resorted to name calling, none of which even hinted at a solution,by the way bugle who the **** is shelly struthers? did she win a noble prize for writing????I would like to see my self put in that company if she did.
whats the solution???? nobody has came up with one . ,every is sitting around waiting for the cops or you are going to call the cops,get real,you may have to testif in court,and the type of people you described that snag don't like stool pigeons.
so what is the solution?
You put a lock on your doors to stop a thief, right? this is called prevention of the ability to commit a crime,so if you cant sit around a snagging hole, why not put a lock on it????
The holes that are good snagging holes are usually the deep, still water holes,and salting the hole does not interfere with legale methods such as bobbers or spinners.
We have done this for years and nobody has complained,nobody even knows its there and the snagging problem has been solved here on the n. f.
I sit here waiting for the negative responses i will get to this solution, but we are not ones to sit around waiting for somebody to do some thing when the problem is so simple to solve.We solve them ourselves with the simplest most cost efficient way possible.
I loved the response both good and bad.it told me one thing you can write,
My wife loretta- of 49 yrs and I.always looked at the As and Bs on the childrens report cards and not the Ds and Fs looking back at these posts, ask your self what have you done on a positive note to enhance ours and your fishery.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>and nobody has complained,nobody even knows its there and the snagging problem has been solved here on the n. f <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm guessing you fish the days when no one's around. images/icons/confused.gif

I don't see how lobbying for a snag fishery is any kind of enhancement to sports angling. images/icons/confused.gif

[BUGLEMAN]

hustlerrjim actually you have limited the recreational use of those holes and caused environmental damage. Even if you can't comprehend that. Here is an excersize to help you hustler. Take 100 yards of barbed wire and wrap it around your mattress and then watch what you wife does (if you have one). I bet she won't use it!

[Silent Lucidity]

Doesn't work in that instance Bugle. Jim's spawned out.

[will_e_fish]

Too bad it is not a perfect world. Why can't we take the same attitude about the trash the leave garbage at the river, creek or lake. The garbage tossing inbreds do they all drink Hamms and Bud? Is anybody gonna say it doesn't hurt anglers reputations in the public eye? Sorry I have to vent but I know more that one place that was shut down for that and we dont yell, fight someone for that or report them. Do we? Sorry makes me as mad as the snagging issue. Putting a camera down at the hole it would get stolen and sold for more Budwiser beer and the cans would end up back at the bank.
will_e_fish

[Pilar]

Jim, you admit you are throwing barbwire in the NF Nehalem or have done so in the past?

Not too bright partner. But then most criminals meet their just desserts by the inability to keep their mouths shut. They just have to tell someone ..........

[Hoosier Daddy]

Hmmm. Good point. What have I done to enhance my fishery.....let's see.....
oh....
1) I DON'T SNAG
2) I DON'T throw barbed wire in rivers
3) I DON'T keep dark fish for eggs
shall we go on......?

[FM2]

With all the ideas that have been presented is anyone or any group willing to put together a possible solution for this perpetual and nagging problem. Lots of folks have vented, provided opinions, described experiences but there hasn't been any serious attempt to decide on a course of action.

All folks who have responded here know what the problem is, what will it take to bring together all these voices and unite them like our country is united today and try to get to the nuts and bolts of a possible solution. There has been a wide array of possibilites with deep felt emotions but who is willing to step up to the plate to begin a brainstorming session. This can be accomplished without a meeting because the technology to bring people together is in place via the net. Is there someone or a group that would like to spearhead a course of data collecting and organizing a direction for this problem or will this be a constant source of anger and frustration for many. Seems there is enough folks here to put together a comprehensive, well thought out, diverse proposal to the ODFW but this will take a comittment. I am willing to help but this needs to be a community effort to have any sort of chance to impact the decision makers.

Who's up for the challenge?

[ 10-04-2001: Message edited by: FM2 ]

[Deleted User]

If you use the search feature FM2, you will find that I went thru a similar thread and call for action a few weeks ago. I stressed the importance of curbing increased snagging for all of the aforementioned good reasons. I made suggestions of getting essentially a volunteer posse together, alert game enforcement officials, request one of their officers for backup, and go into various snagging hot spots and hand out flyers and verbal explainations to observed blatant snaggers that they are breaking the law and hurting future angling opportunity; are now being randomly filmed and license plate reported. And that they would be randomly monitored by both gammies and volunteers hence forth. It got lots of supportive posts by guys ready to go forward with this plan. That is until it came time to actually get involvevd in the action. I posted for snagging problem area suggestions and for committed participation to get after it - and it just had the wind go out of it. Same as with my spring 2000 rally in Cascade Locks to protest very unfair Columbia springer allocations (we didn't even get to fish for them last year).

NW anglers are infamous for complaining but not giving of themselves to really help out the problems. The unfortunate reality is that the vast majority would rather leave the task to others and just go fish or watch a ballgame on TV - including most members here. So I gave up the ghost. I hope some inspirational leaders come along that can actually get enough lazy or scared fishermen off their duffs and act. When I see that happen I will be along for the action; as I was when 'Fly got the Wind River cleanup crew together (about a dozen guys out of over 3000 members combined from Ifish and Piscatorial), and when Mark got the Wilson River cleanup crew together (similar small turnout). Good luck with this important endeavor.

RT

[Deleted User]

Simple! Call the state police or county sheriff. I would not suggest confronting them or being some kind of vigilante. Take down there license plate number and call the proper authorities. Throwing junk in the river is not the answer either.
Stew

[FM2]

RT says:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The unfortunate reality is that the vast majority would rather leave the task to others and just go fish or watch a ballgame on TV - including most members here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If only one percent (1%) of the members would take an active approach, this could be the start of a solution. A group of folks could get together and form an entity such as Jack McGowan's SOLV organiztion to address this issue of snagging. I for one will participate along with RT to establish proposals and guidelines to present to the decision makers at ODFW but two people out of over 1500 is not going to accomplish this task. If no one wishes to participate and give up a little time for a good cause, then really the frustrations will continue to grow, the snaggers will continue their practice, fishing locations will get closed and other repercussions may result from the one's who do the snagging. This has the potential to impact eveyone on this board in one way or another, why not start now to begin the foundation to new and constructive deterrents.

How about a few good guys step up, there are many sharp people here!

[Pilar]

FM2, volunteerism is a good thing.

Don't get me wrong about what I say next. There are a **** of a lot more snaggers than there are people willing to do something about it.

When you look at it that way you might lower your expectations a bit. Even if you managed to impact one spot, what about all of the others? How could you be at all of the problem places often enough to make a difference?

Locks stop honest people. Monitoring snag holes will shut down the snagging while you are there. They'll be back later (at night even!) when you aren't there.

If you could somehow publicize the efforts then maybe people about to do this would think twice.

[FM2]

Thanks for the reply Pilar. I understand the enormity of this problem but with constructive brainstorming some potential guidlines could be identified and applied uniformly in all areas. The current policies don't seem to do much to slow these folks down especially in a year with an abundance of fish like is being experienced. I get troubled when I hear of a father snagging a fish and then taking pictures with his son as if this was a legally caught fish. Think of the impression this is making to this young kid who may grow up thinking this is ok. Maybe we should take our kids to 7-eleven and show them how to put a candy bar in their pocket!

I don't think there is a simple solution to this and this is why a collective effort of fishermen need to band together to address this issue. I'm thinking of the generations down the road, not just the immediate picture.

[boater]

the non-bouyant lure restriction does work, alot of rivers use it and it does work, very seldom do you see buzz bombers and if you do they have single hooks on them, you guys need to start sending letters or call the fisheries dept. and ask them to put it on the rivers or streams you are concerned about. e-mail, write letters or call, it all works.

[hustlerrjim]

As I have said before ,most projects are ruined because somebody trys to find fault with any thing somebody else trys to do,or who gets credit for doing something,one complainer can ruin the efforts of a dozen people,the fact remains there has not been one citation for snagging 1/2 mile below the hatchery to the mouth for the last 5 yrs.on yhe n.f. nehalem.
Waiting around for somebody else to do something is the next reason nothing gets done,I have elected to do something other than sit around and do nothing whether you think it's right or wrong ------it works.
I wait for the dooms dayers replys.

[Nanook]

All the intellect and philosophy sounds great on paper. Realizing your own safety and the situation of course, everyone of you (us) must help "police" ourselves on the rivers, especially this BS.

I defy anyone to call it other than BS. Simple Hillbilly logic to me. It's not good for mother nature and it damn sure is not good for us.

I am not saying get shot or fist fight, but damn it, you don't have to be a total wuss
either. (no offense or direct implications to anyone).

If you don't say something to them, right then and there, to make sure they know you are witnessing their behavior, they will NEVER change their behavior.

Yes, then if it has ugly potential, call the cops and turn in boat numbers, etc. The game guys are out there too. Sometimes you won't know. Have had em' sit and camp right next to me undercover, many times.

Watching them sit in the hole, call on the radio, then here come the boys in blue SWOOPING down over the hill for multiple busts was just as fun to watch as hammering fish, maybe even better!

Stand up for each other in these situations out there. Scurvy dogs. Hang em' from the Yard Arm!


Rick

http://images.animfactory.com/animations/transportation/cars/mirror_md_clr.gif

[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: ****** ]

[FM2]

Rick, your post has made alot of sense and has a really great rationale. Since no one really wants to step forward and do something more than what is currently in place I have to agree folks need to at least "SPEAK UP". As I suggested in the first post, just mention the place you are at is "being watched by the law" and continue fishing. This would be an interesting observation in the least to see if this has an impact.

Thanks ****** for putting this problem in easy to read terms.

[BUGLEMAN]

Ok so how do we get support for buoyant lure restrictions? The commission is aware of the snagging problems. I think the starting point is to get some other groups behind this issue too. Like the NW Steelheaders Assoc. and others. We should start by lobbing those groups first with the goal of a letter writing campaign to the commission and governor and even getting ODFW to back the issue. And then move forward to overwhelming meetings with a strong presence.

I think that Steve King would have to be for this one, he is a big time heavy hitter. We need to also collect data and information from WDFW on the success of non-buoyant lure restrictions up there.

I already have the OSP, Sergeant for Wildlife, for Clatsop Co. looking into it. He is a heavy hitter, in enforcement, right in the middle of this issue. Let's get with it! Who wants to help? RT, your speaking ability is very much needed. I clam up sometimes when it gets down to the nuts and bolts on emotional issues but other times I speak very well.

Do we form an anti-snagging coalition? I think that would be best and then get other groups to support/endorse the solutions we propose.

I would like to also help on evidence collection outings at snagging hotbeds. I know hey-yall, and RT wants to. It would be so easy to catch some of these idiots and I mean real goud. Not just one days worth either. But somehow catch these guys on video and then bring the fuzz in and watch the pain. We can do things as fishermen that officers could only dream of. It would be very rewarding for me considering how I now feel about the fly larvae the blatantly snag.

The important thing, as I see it, would be the instigation of a non-buoyant lure restriction policy for the State of Oregon. The "posse" would be for fun. I mean I have already caught enough fish this year and the real river fishing hasn't even started yet. I look at it as doing something for the resource and still getting out along the river. Sort of like the spring cleaning you guys gave the Wind. Rewarding. I will start a thread entitled anti-snagging coalition. It is time to step up to the plate, let's do something about this problem while we still can!

[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: BUGLEMAN ]

[FM2]

I think there must be an echo in the thread images/icons/grin.gif

BM, I hope you have read through this entire topic and come to a conclusion regarding folks stepping up to the plate! This is great in theory and would be an absolute God send if this could happen. You can count me in if you decide to put together a coalition of determined, moral and ethical fishermen that would like to make a difference down the road. At this point, you would make up 1/5th of the 1% of what would be a minimum group to address this problem. Keep up the behind the scenes work and keep me posted whenever you need assistance.

[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: FM2 ]

[will_e_fish]

Yes I am willing to go out with others to stop the snagging and littering problem that aflict our river banks. Yeah RT's plan sounds good filming, flyers, education, a one on talk with the offender and big garbage bags to clean up debris. Mentoring or using the adopt a snagger also sounds like a good approach. Enough said let's unite and go do it.
will_e_fish

[BUGLEMAN]

I guess I want to try to make a difference. I did read through the entire post. I didn't see RT's previous snagging post yet I know that bouyant lure restrictions would help the problem. I am hoping that just like a boulder poised to roll down the mountain this issue just needs a little nudge. So, call me optimistic, I will take it as a compliment. Let's brainstorm this portion on the anti-snagging coalition thread I just started.

[ 10-07-2001: Message edited by: BUGLEMAN ]

[FM2]

I heard this topic might be brought up at a NW Steelheaders meeting. Does anyone know if it was?

[Deleted User]

I don't know about the other NW Steelheader's chapter meetings FM2. I will be bringing it up at the TV chapter meeting in Hillsboro on the 18th.

Have you or anyone notified Steve King, head of the Clackamas office of the ODFW, to access ifish and read this thread? Of particular interest to them would be the Eagle Creek snagfest. That number is 503-657-2000. Has anyone written to the main office of the ODFW or WDFW about this thread and the general snagging situation; giving your suggestions to them?

In my Dec./Jan. column for STS magazine I called out all fishers to get after the snagging situation in ways mentioned here. And the likely consequences if it isn't abolished. (The column gets turned in about when the previous issue is coming out, so it's already in to Nick).

[FM2]

Thanks for the info RT. I know you probably will, but if you could post the outcome of the meeting you will be involved in this will give an indication of the direction this topic could go. I only hope it doesn't go away.

I believe Bugleman was going to call Stephen King, I remember he mentioned this in a previous thread.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I believe Bugleman was going to call Stephen King <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/shocked.gif

"IT" still freaks me out. images/icons/grin.gif

Bugle- let me know what I can do to help, and I'll found out some more things for you on my end.

[BUGLEMAN]

I was making a suggestion but, will call him on Monday. RT, how about a conference call with him? I have the 3 way function on my phone.

[Deleted User]

I'd be glad to Bugle'. Make it in the afternoon - I can't think until after the noon hour. images/icons/wink.gif I will e-mail you my number. - Steve

[FM2]

RT and BM, if you need my assistance, let me know. I have many resources available.

[Deleted User]

Bringing this back to the top for Clack ODFW office personnel to review.

RT