Navigation in the ocean with Fog!!!!!

[Rubber Robin]

We fished Buoy 10 on Saturday. At about 9am we decided to go out to Buoy 2 or 4. When we got to Buoy 4 it was too foggy to see #2. We elected to fish around #4. We fished for about a half an hour with only one fish boated when the fog decided to roll in. I have a GPS unit that I had programmed all of the buoys from # 2 thru # 22 to the Hammond entrance on the last trip when the weather was nice. I have never had to navigate by instruments before. It was unnerving. I pushed the goto button for Buoy # 6. We had maybe 30 yds. visibility in any direction. When we saw the outline of #6 in front of us, there was a huge sigh of relief! These things really do work. We went from 6 to 8 and then we were able to see # 10 after we passed # 8 on our way back in.
I would advise experimentation during nice weather to convince yourself that these gadgets really do work. Heavy fog is not the best time for testing! I am now a 100% believer! Between the compass and the GPS, you need to know how to use both!

[fishinfool]

Careful with the GPS in the fog. Yes thay are great tools to have as mine helped me navigate in the fog on friday BUT at first it wasn't updateing very fast and it was giving me wrong directions. images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif I ended up where no boat wants to be out there on top of Desdamona sands. Thank goodness I wasn't going very fast and I was able to get off without any danger. Just letting you know these things are great but go slow as safely possible.

[jet]

I had the same experience on saturday. I am glad I had my little co-pilot. With the fog it helps to reassure the boat crew and Captian.

I am sure glad on Saturday that I knew where I was when the 3 big freighters rolled down the river in the soupy fog. My GPS was the second best investment in the last few years, the first being the boat.

Jet~~~

[hound]

way to go on getting back in ok....thats one of the hardest things to do is to believe in your compass and electronics when the fog sets in...thats a big a$$ river in the fog..i was out there saturday by myself but i chickend out and stayed inside around 10 & 12...i don't have those outer buoys in my gps yet..my dad drilled that in to my brain 30 years ago...always believe your compass!!!!

[Pilar]

Rubber Robin .. please be careful! It sounds like you are thinking about it but realize what you are risking. After running that bar unassisted for many years GPS has made so much more possible for me. But just having the waypoints is not enough. On my LMS350A I can make a route. For many of my favorite places I have done this.

At CR the route runs along the 'Red Line' even numbered buoys. Far enough away that I won't hit them in the fog, but close enough to see them in a medium fog (100yds vis).

Most important thing is to run your route with a spotter on a nice day. Using only the box and compass get to the spot. Let your spotter keep you out of trouble with other boats. This ensures that your waypoints are good and that you get some practice flying by wire. Having this experience will also make doing it for real a little less sweaty.

It is really helpful to also have compass headings written down or memorized. This sounds crazy and anal but it might save your bacon. What would happen if you got out there and your box took a prolonged smoke break?

Do you know how far each point is from the other? Can you figure the time from one point to the other? Could you find your way home without the box?

[Dogfish]

Learn to use your compass first. It rarely runs out of batteries.

Next, as Pilar suggests, learn to use all of those fun buttons on the gps. Write down lat/long of different waypoints, headings, distances and elapsed times between waypoints at different speeds, then laminate them. That way if your GPS goes dead, but you find a bouy, you can work your way back with the compass, notepad, and watch.

Finally, bring an adapter cord, and plenty of spare batteries. Redundancy spells safety.

Safe boating is no mistake.

[Torchman]

Running in the FOG with GPS and NO RADAR is akin to Russian Roulette. Sure, plot those buoys, make that route. And when the bow of that 80 foot dragger appears at 10 yds.....
Seriously folks...GPS will tell you "Where" but NOT what is OUT THERE!! I'm a Coastie, with 2 small boats without radar. But I have a GPS system (used to position Aids to Nav) that will BLOW AWAY anything commercially available. So do what I do....Vis is decreasing, fog bank rolling in....RUN TO THE DOCK!!!!! Get caught in the soup??? TIE OFF to one of my aids!!! (Yes, everything from Bonneville to the Mouth is Mine!!! images/icons/grin.gif Wait for it to lift. Or anchor up WELL outside the channel!!! GPS+RADAR is GREAT....GPS alone will kill you. 'Nuf said.
Frank

[Hamachi]

O.K. everybody, if you're going on the ocean, it all boils down to one word - RADAR.
Now, I'm a Furuno man myself, but this JRC unit is under $900! Tell me your boat and life aren't worth that!
Go work some overtime!
(I couldn't get this link to work right, so you'll have to copy & paste. Sorry.) http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=201&prrfnbr=2518&store_num=3&store_name=Electronics&subdept_num=187&subdept_name=Radar&class_num=188&class_ name=LCD%20Radars

[ 09-17-2001: Message edited by: Hamachi ]

[fishbait]

RR, I have one question........
What would you have done if on the way to 4 two things happened....
1. you hit something and have to shut down the engine for 1-2 min to clear prop/pump

AND

2. Your GPS unit chose that moment to 1. fail or 2 run out of Batteries

Drift direction
current speed
compass heading and time(speed)to next bouey
Did you have a current chart with you


it's simple, when your life depends on it, don't go our without redundant systems.

bottom line...you were in a very bad sititation and were lucky everything went OK

[ 09-17-2001: Message edited by: fishbait ]

[finclipped]

The reality is that you could also lose your alternator making your GPS, Radar depth finder, VHS and whatever else equipment useless. Take a compass, take a cell phone. I think most people use their GPS to get back in when the fog sets in; not as " a way to get out there". It sounds like that's what RR was saying.

There is an infinite amount of things that can go wrong, so in review, VHF(with weather channel), Cell phone, kicker motor, Compass, GPS, depth finder, Radar(I Don't have) and the single most important item, common sense! You can have fun out there.

[boater]

i think gps units are fine for going back to fishing hot spots but to use them in the fog is not safe. just my 2 useless cents worth.

[Salmonator]

Thanks for the advice boater. Next time the fog rolls in i'll be sure to turn my gps off!

[boater]

joe, like torchman said, radar + gps is good, gps alone will kill you. if you dont believe that your a fool.

[Salmonator]

So boater is that radar going to show you the deadhead you're about to put through your hull at 30mph? No it won't. In other words there's lots of stuff that'll kill you if you don't use common sense. I won't sit at home for fear of fog rolling in because I have no radar. And as far as calling me a fool, I have considered the source and decided not to lose any sleep over it images/icons/grin.gif

[CATCH AND EAT]

After I bought my boat I spent $6000 on a Ratheon radar, chart plotter, GPS, and a quality fish finder. A compass was already on the boat. I have had to use it 3 times this summer to get back in. Sure was worth the money!

It is easy to get disoriented out there even with this stuff. Trust you instruments. Know your headings on the compass.

[CATCH AND EAT]

After I bought my boat I spent $6000 on a Ratheon radar, chart plotter, GPS, and a quality fish finder. A compass was already on the boat. I have had to use it 3 times this summer to get back in. Sure was worth the money!

It is easy to get disoriented out there even with this stuff. Trust you instruments. Know your headings on the compass.

[Pilar]

Radar didn't help Captain Hazelwood or the Exxon Valdez.

Hey Joe where you goin with that gun in your hand?

[Salmonator]

I'm goin' down to shoot my old flattie, caught him messin round with my herring near the sand... images/icons/grin.gif

[Tryin2Fish]

"Radar didn't help Captain Hazelwood or the Exxon Valdez."

Neither did a bottle of whiskey from what I hear.

The point is that if you use common sense and know how to use your gps you should be fine. I agree have a compass if something should happen to your gps. I will be going out on friday and will have my gps as well as my buddy will have his and plenty of batteries.

The manuels for my gps (garmin etrex)states that conditions such as fog affect a gps but does not make it inoperable, this is where the common sense comes in an knowing the terrain even if you can't see it.

Jim

[CHUMSALMON]

don't trust those gps's to much, always make sure to have a compas with you, and know how to use it! my father was out near the CR bouy sunday, the fog rolled in, so him and his buddy pulled out there gps's (they both have one) and neither one would work! tried all the tricks neither one would work. they had to use the compass to get back (which they know how to use very well. If i remeber correctly the military still has the right to scrambel those gps signals in times of war! so, be careful out there and don't trust those little computers too much! images/icons/wink.gif

[Pilar]

Great point, Chumsalmon. Just out of curiousity I tried my LMS350A on terrible Tuesday. It was interesting watching satellites appear and dissapear every few seconds. I could barely keep my position (not moving) stable on the plotter with 12 satellites. Tell me that the powers that be weren't putting the hoax on the system for the benefit of our would be attackers.

GPS is maintained and controlled by the military and is not officially commissioned. It can be shut down or tweaked at any time. This is what you must think about before heading out to Atlantis on a GPS.

Sorry about the wisecrack about the Exxon Valdez. I was making a point. That is the only thing on the boat that is indispensible is the captains brain. Radar is a beautiful thing, I've used it and someday I will own one. If you are an idiot however even that won't help you.

Darwin is ruthless and mistakes at sea are punished harshly. Be careful out there and don't exceed your abilities or experience.

[Tinman]

The collected wisdom in this whole thread is truly impressive. Before GPS I had Loran, but even as technology improves, the compass and chart are still indispensible.

I remember the first time my intuition disagreed with my compass (before I had Loran or GPS). Every fiber of my being was convinced that the harbor was this way, but my compass said it was nearly the opposite direction. I was 10 miles out in heavy haze and about a mile of visibility. My heart was pounding as I reluctantly decided to trust the compass, and for 9 long miles I was truly scared because my sense of direction was screaming that the compass had malfunctioned.

Then the harbor buoy appeared dead ahead, right where it should be, and I realized I had learned several lessons, namely trust the compass, trust the compass and trust the compass.

[boater]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Salmonator:
Thanks for the advice boater. Next time the fog rolls in i'll be sure to turn my gps off!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"good"

[Hamachi]

Good point, Tinman. You should trust ALL of your electronics. You should also know how to USE, comfortably, all of your electronics.
Some very valid points have been brought up in this thread. Radar is not the total answer, just part of it. While approaching the shorline/harbor/bar entrance in drastically reduced visibilities, you must diligently monitor your radar, (so you don't hit anything and to make sure nobody hits you), your depthfinder, (so you don't run aground), and your navigation system(s),(so you know precisely where you are).
It would be wise to practice on good weather days to become confident in using your electronics. It can be very unnerving to be thrust in a bad vis situation when you aren't confident in your abilities.
Lastly, anyone that would run at 30kts at night, even with full electronics, won't be around very long to boast about it! I still can't believe how much lumber is floating around out there! I used to routinely run out of San Diego in the dark 40-80 miles in pursuit of tuna, in a 22' aluminum boat. I wouldn't consider running anywhere here in darkness, Puget Sound or open ocean. images/icons/shocked.gif