A great temptation... Ethics?

[Jennie@ifish]

So, you are fishing upriver somewhere and you lay into a big hen.
She is fairly dark, but... "Oh! The eggs this hen must have!"
Do you keep it?
Honest answers?
Does anyone dare answer this?
I have seen people keep some of the ugliest, darkest hens. What do they do with the fish?
Jen

[Snapset]

I have found that if the fish is decent enough to eat, her eggs are usually still good. If she is overripe, so are her eggs. There is no excuse for wasting meat.

[First Bite]

Jennie
Last year I ran into that scenario several times. In every case I let them go. Some of them were slightly bronze and they still swam away.
Mark

[ampersat]

i have met quite a few people this year who were "fishing for eggs", in their own words. i don't know if they were keeping dark fish or not. either way, c'mon folks. if all you want is eggs, go buy some. what you spend in gear and gas can't be saving you that much money.

[WildHawg]

As I stated in the "50 # Tule" Thread, it's wrong to keep a fish just for the eggs. Many folks forget that a large percentage of our Fall Chinook are wild spawned fish. I ALMOST feel guilty even killing the chromers, since there are so many hatchery coho available for us to fill our tags on. I had a GREAT week (Thursday through Sunday) at an undisclosed location whacking silver hens (limits every day but Sunday, pulled a skunk) along with one 30 pound chrome chinook. Silver eggs are, in my opinion, just as productive as chinook eggs under a bobber or backbounced. Gotta go cure my 15 lbs of eggs images/icons/grin.gif Good luck all, they are out there if you keep at it.

[Thumper]

Our Lewis river fall chinook are natives, and they are special. If she ain't chrome, she lives!

[CAGEY]

The old gal is released and allowed to go do her thing, "god bless her". images/icons/smile.gif

[CZ]

There is NO reason for keeping a dark fish just for the eggs - such a waste, especially when many chinooks we catch are wild...

[Phish_on]

If I am going to eat a fish, I will keep the eggs for bait. Otherwise, salmon eggs belong in river gravel. I think we know that.

[Deleted User]

Never be so dependent on eggs that you just gotta have them. I use sand shrimp most of the time and although shrimp is not as good as excellent,well cured eggs they do work! I'll use eggs if I have them but if I'm out then so be it. Seems like ther should be more than enough eggs for everyone this year.
Stew

[FishinMission]

To me...dark fish possess what I call "Pautzke's" eggs. I'm totally amazed that people keep these "black" fish. I think mostly it's those who are just beginning, or those who don't ever catch any fish that keep them ugly things. Yeah...you can smoke your old boots if you wanna. images/icons/shocked.gif

[Jennie@ifish]

I think you might be surprised at the people who keep darker hens for the eggs...
Very shocked, in fact.
J

[RichH]

I like to use eggs for bait. Therefore, I would say that I "fish for eggs" I don't particularly care to eat alot of fish. Therefore I give away alot of fish. That said, I still would not kill a marginal fish just for eggs or any other reason for that matter. If I catch a bright fish that someone has asked for(my friends are always asking), then it will go home with me. Because I like to fish with eggs, I prefer to take hens rather than bucks. If I'm going to take a fish home I take the first good one I catch, buck or hen. Generally, especially with steelhead, most of what I catch lives to fight another day. My preferred food fish for myself happens to be silvers.

[fishbait]

Defination please....What is a dark fish...TO me a dark fall chinook is one that no longer has a white shinny belly. Many times they still have sealice, not long tail though. YES, there are times when I will kill one of these fish for the eggs. The meat is usually fine, sometimes the tail section will begin to lighten up a little bit, but mostly all the meat is perfectly edable. Usually, I keep about 2-3 of these fish, I get 2-4 nice shinny hens w/ long tail lice and then the rest I let go and keep bucks as they will have better meet. (I mostly fish Tillamook for fall kings and we can only keep 10. Would I kill a black fish with white meat for some mostly singled out eggs NO FU$$$$$ WAY...... Have I in the past...YES, many years ago when I did not catch near as many fish as I do now. Was it my right to keep this fish, YES... What differance does it make to the spawnning population if this fish is killed when she is fresh from the salt, shinny as a new silver dollar with long tail sea lice or killed just before she diggs her redd as potty rot begins forming on her tail and fins...........simple their is no differance....she does not spawn either way.......

[Crusin]

Only if I know she's not gonna make it....I usually only keep a couple fish a year,,my family isnt into fish eating much anyways...unless its ling-cod...

[Trick]

Never, never, never have I or would kill a questionable fish for the eggs. I went without any eggs, for as long as I can remember, last year. The only silver hen with developed eggs I caught last year had the ugliest messed up head that I've seen on a sea-lice fish. I couldn't bring myself to keep it. All I could manage before deer season was a bunch of bucks.

This year is a different story. Nailed an awesome 15lb clipped silver hen with chinook sized skeins in it. Bonked another 9lb hen loaded with eggs. Couple more like that and I'll be set.

[Joe Schwab]

Apparently none of the people here would think of keeping dark fish. But like Jennie says " you would be surprised". It happens every year and not with just newbies. Go to any popular bobber and egg hole and watch. Last year I went to the Trask and tossed my bobber and eggs with a bunch of average looking dudes. I commented to the guy next to me who seemed pretty together about some of the dark fish being conked. I made my comments loudly enough so others could hear but it had little effect. He half heartedly agreed with me and after a short time I noticed a black hen behind him. He sort of acknowledged it was his but offered no excuses. Funny I didn't feel the least bit of regret about all the remarks I made about people who keep dark fish. Folks they ain't all people who just caught their first fish!! Some of these guys handle the rod real well. images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif

[Deleted User]

I've seen the same thing Capt. I remember being on the Kilchis years ago when the Chum salmon were running. Anyone familiar with these fish know that they are seldom bright enough to keep but sure enough there were plenty of these "yellow" salmon being kept. There is a certain shop along the Wilson River that was selling tule salmon for $5 a fish anyone know what the motivation was for this?
Stew

[Jennie@ifish]

I wondered about that too, Stew.
Jen

[Pete]

I assume the $5 Tule carcasses are what's left after the eggs are harvested. What I wondered is where they are buying Tules. Since the fish were for sale before the commercial nets went into the lower river I just don't know. I suppose hatcheries might have surplus fish.

[RIPPLE]

personally, I love to eat salmon, but I do not cure my own eggs, therefore I release fish which are darker and deemed less tasty. But with that said, what I am wondering is WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. I have read alot of slamming about the taking of dark fish, in fact I have been right with you guys making comments and ridiculing those that keep the dark ones. but........ if I keep and kill a chrome bright beauty am I not just getting to him or her sooner. Am I not killing the exact same fish that will turn dark and spawn. I have not even thought about this till I read this thread, but I'd be interested in others thoughts. And p.s. I still don't plan on keeping a dark one, I just don't know if there's any difference, the end result is exactly the same.
images/icons/grin.gif RIPPLE images/icons/grin.gif

[Dogfish]

Ripple,

You would almost always immediately notice a piece of flesh from a darker fish. It is generally mushier, white or lighter in color, has a fishier taste, and overall it is much less palatable than a bright fish. There are exceptions to this, like the Tule fish, or other "white" kings, but if you want fish for the table go bright, not white.

Andy

[Deleted User]

RIPPLE, the difference and ethics are simple - the bright fish feeds people a lot of quality food, and quite a few people per fish. Any quality food supply that comes into the general supply has a beneficial effect ... sort of a 'ripple' effect in that other food then does not get consumed by a fishermen's family and friends, as a result is available for other consumers. It can put a tiny dent in the demand and prices of other foods and prices and availability for needy people in this region. Furthermore, a bright fish still has the heart and vessel healthy omega-3 oils intact; dark fish do not! ... OK, not so simple, but credible. Also, since bright fish are usually kept, they are part of the appropriate harvest equations that the ODFW/WDFW use in allowing fishing seasons on them. Dark fish about to spawn aren't usually counted into these equations; certainly not the ones not tagged by unethical foolish loose egg hunters. Dark fish, especially hens, are just bad tasting mush meat barely pet food gradeable. So there is no benefit, smoked or not, to the incoming general food supply. And in that condition the eggs will be from very loose to unusable. NO REASON to keep these fish! Great use for spawning! What makes killing these even sicker is the fact that the primarily native runs of fall chinook in the Tillamook area rivers, as well as other regional area rivers, have made the great struggling journey back to spawn and continue the species only to be uselessly slaughtered by utterly naive or unethical fools. How would you like to be pulled off your 'spawning bed' just before achieving your goal - for life? LET DARK FISH SPAWN

[ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: RT ]

[RIPPLE]

I do understand the difference as far as taste, and that's why I don't keep the darker ones. the point that I was making was, that in the big picture, as far as whether or not fish are able to spawn, there just isn't a difference. we do the exact same thing by keeping a sea-liced chromer for dinner, as someone who keeps a dark fish for the eggs. I'm honestly not trying to stir things up, I'm just having a bit of a revelation. Have a great day.
images/icons/grin.gif RIPPLE images/icons/grin.gif

[Deleted User]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>the point that I was making was, that in the big picture, as far as whether or not fish are able to spawn, there just isn't a difference. we do the exact same thing by keeping a sea-liced chromer for dinner, as someone who keeps a dark fish for the eggs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Re-read my post above and see that your statement is not correct - by a long shot. It is over simplified and doesn't take into account all the credible factors. You either ignored or didn't comprehend all the valid points made. ... I appologize that this sounds condescending; but these are facts some fishers need to be made aware of.

[ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: RT ]

[RIPPLE]

RT - I actually was typing before I read your post, i'm just a slow typer. You make some great points and I agree with you. If you had read my post you would have known that. I have never kept a dark fish, I do not cure my own eggs, and I take great pride in eating salmon and feeding it to others. I was in no way advocating the killing of a dark fish. The revelation that I just had was mine and mine alone and maybe I should have just kept it to myself. It was'nt that I should start killing dark fish, it was simply this, "any salmon that I kill in T. Bay this year is a spawning fish some are just closer to it than others."
Have a great day,
images/icons/grin.gif RIPPLE images/icons/grin.gif

[Fishin Magician]

Used to keep darker fish as well as bright fish when I was younger,as I didn't catch as many fish as I do now, I am not afraid of saying that I have participated in hen hunting. That being said , I am sure that there are a lot of hypocrates out there and I know for a fact there are people that I have fished with from here that are as guilty as the rest of us of at some point keeping a dark hen for the eggs. For the past 5 years I have went out and purchased 100+ pounds of fresh eggs from egg suppliers. I love to bobber fish and back-bounce. I don't feel guilty about taking home a fish now as it is a quality fish as opposed to an egg fish. I love watching dudes freak out when I return a hen even if she is dark, "That's a good smoker" Bullsh*t!! Do rotting apples make a good pie????? Ive got enough bait for all year. It all came down to realizing that the runs of fish are worth a hell of a lot more than the $1000.00 I spend on buying bait every year. It feels good to let them go. Mark and I were fishing last year and one day I think each of us released 8 or 9 fall chinook and some were big ripe hens. I can tell you for a fact , I would rather see them spawn and replentish the rivers with fish for the future. If you have to think even for a second whether that fish's eggs are worth wasting the meat,that is your conscience talking to you , let it go and call me I will get you hooked up with some eggs. Steve an Shane give me a ring I know where there are some fish to be caught .~~~~John

[Fishin Magician]

Anyone else to provide a point of view?????

[Gone Fishin]

If it dosen't reflect sunlight, back in the water it goes.

If it isn't good enough to put on the table, it isn't good enough to smoke.

Please don't waste a game fish (or any animal for that matter).

[Hookset]

I've never understood why fisherpeople got all worked up keeping fish just for eggs. If people keep these questionable eating fish for eggs only to catch other questionable eating fish, then what's the point?

I agree with Marty, the fish should be bright or it's going back. With the amount of bright fish to catch this year, there's no point even considering keeping a questionable fish. When in doubt, throw it back.......I've always lived by that simple rule.

Gregg

[fishpatrol]

For those of you who don't think people fish for eggs, I have seen induviduals who are so adept at slitting bellies it would look to the casual observer that this person was practicing catch and release.

Fortunately some of us are in a position to stop the practice.

[hustlerrjim]

surprisingly I am dead set on keeping chinook hens to the point we ask every body that puts in at our place to release all chinook hens, if they dont agree to that- then don't put in, I have not seen a single hen that was good enough to steak out for the table in my 3o years here on the n. fork.if you get a buck that looks fair all you have to do is look at the roof of its' mouth,the meat will be apx. the same color as the roof of the fishes mouth.