what would you do?

[4Salt]

This year, I actually had the opposite situation happen to me. 2 weeks ago I fished Neah bay with my neighbor, in his boat. We were catching ALOT of pinks, and unclipped silvers. We were there for 3 days, and I didn't want to keep any pinks, just 1 or 2 nice clipped coho. The last day, I punched my 2 fish, and forgot to put my catch record card back in the plastic holder with my license. A week later is when I noticed it was gone. I had my neighbor check the boat to see if it was still there. It wasn't, so I figured it probably blew out on the drive home. Anyway, to make a long story short, WA catch record cards have salmon, steelhead, and sturgeon combined on them. I had punched no sturgeon or steelhead, and only 4 salmon.
Since there is a yearly limit on sturgeon (10) and steelhead (30) when I went to get a replacement card, I found out that the second one is not valid for steelhead or sturgeon, only salmon. So even though I rarely, if ever, keep hatchery steelhead or sturgeon, I can't now anyway, even if I wanted to.

Hopefully, in the kharmic scheme of things, my loss will even out your friend's ill gotten gain. images/icons/smile.gif

[Jellyhead]

MB is right about ODFW closing up the loop holes. Think about this....how many people lose just a tag? Normally I keep all of my tags/licenses together and would have to buy a duplicate fishing license, catch card, and hunting license. I imagine the new system will "red flag" if these other items are not duplicated at the time of a replacement catch card is being bought.

Also, on the ODFW web page, in the new rules proposed for 2002, pencil is being outlawed. Only pen may be used on tags, and no erasures allowed. Too bad. Ever try to get a ball point pen to work in a downpour in Febuary when its about 36 degrees outside? Oh well, Just too many bad apples spoiling it for the bunch. At least we have the option of buying a hatchery tag this year.

Aaron

[Hoosier Daddy]

Tell him how you feel, but don't tell him ODFW is closing the loopholes. That way, if he tells you to **** off, he will still get popped eventually anyway. You did your best, and he gets what's coming to him. That or an anonymous phone call. Maybe I'm overstepping here, but something tells me this probably isn't the only area he pushes the rules in, right?

[Master Baiter]

Chnookie has a good point!

Hey Jellyhead, I think the biggest "red flag" will be when he shows up on the radar each year, that will get him hung for sure! "Oh, apparently Joe Blow must have alzheimers, he has lost his tag 5 years in row now, how convenient!" images/icons/rolleyes.gif

For those who have not seen it, there is an EXCELLENT article in the latest STS about the closing of these loop holes. Another thing was mentioned in there about them setting up a high tech forensics lab to fully ascertain whether or not a card had been doctored when they suspect it.

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: Master Baiter ]

[FishinMission]

MasterBaiter and I thnk alike. I won't say any more, because he said everything I was thinking.

[Grits]

In North Carolina we were allowed 6 deer a year so to keep track of folks who might cheat the system we had to call in and go through quick teleprompt to get a control #.

It was pretty easy. Shoot the deer put your tag on it. Get to civilation (if you didn't have a cell phone) call in and get your control # which you wrote on your tag.

Something like this might help eliminate some cheating and make it easier for ODFW to track how many fish are being harvested.

[FM2]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am in the horns of a moral dilema. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ampersat, you have raised the issue of a moral dilema. While this is a sensitive issue between you and your friend morals help us to decide what is right and what is wrong. To often in today's times people become tolerant of others behaviors and would rather look the other way instead of confronting an issue that is obviously wrong. If people would take a proactive moralistic approach to issue's that are clearly wrong I believe our society would not be as corrupt as it is. Many levels of our society do not possess the courage to say what is right to someone who may be close, such as a friend. I don't believe the line between right and wrong should move, it's black and white. This is obviously festering wihin you. If you knew your friend was driving home drunk everyday or was stealing extra tackle at Joe's would you say something? There is no difference in my book when a person lands intentionally on the wrong side and if this is a friend he will at least give you the courtesy to voice your concern. If this person does value your friendship then he should respect your opinion of this "wrong and illegal" activity. My guess is this person also bends other laws which generally illustrates a lack of respect for rules and others.

This is wrong and I would suggest confronting him with this illegal activity and if he doesn't stop, is he really a friend you want to be around !

Good Luck ampersat !

[Dogfish]

I would handle it very simply. Tell this friend to stop his practices, or you will no longer fish with him. Period.

I lost a hunting "buddy" in a similar situation where he tagged two deer on the same day, with the same tag. I gave him a "get out of jail free card", and parted ways that day and never looked back. My wife and his wife are good friends, but I won't associate with him, unless he stops.

As to breaking the law, it does have an effect on you when someone does it. No matter what the crime. Think about all of those folks who do "rolling stops" at stop signs. The person that they kill could be a relative or friend of yours. Their victims are someone's friend or relative. So you have to decide whether you want to still associate with this poacher, or to part ways.

"Friends" who put friends in a compromising position are no friend at all to you. Poaching is poaching, there is no candy coating.

Best of luck on your tough decision.

Andy

[Bait O' Eggs]

I was recently confronted with a tag situation.

I went to Astoria to go fishing and didnt realize I had left my tag at home until I was on the water. images/icons/rolleyes.gif I was going to fish the next day also, and needed a tag. I didnt want to buy another whole tag/license. I did like the idea of a fresh 20 punches but thought it would be un-ethical to say I lost it when it was at home. It would have cost me $13 for a new tag and license. I asked a coastal sporting goods store if I could buy a one day tag/license for $8 and was told you cannot buy a 1 day tag/license when you already own a yearly tag license. I would be forced to buy a new tag/license for $13 to fish the next day or drive to PDX and pick up my other one. I knew driving a 5 hour round trip would cost me a ton more than $13.

I thought about fishing without a license, the chance of getting caught would be slim, with thousands of people at the dock coming and going. I have brought in 7 silvers this year and have not been checked yet.

I chose to go to a little sporting goods store and buy a 1 day license. The little sporting goods store did not have a Point of Sale system to know that I had a license already, and I didnt tell them.

What I did was illegal according to the person at the first sporting goods store, but why would I pay $8 for 2 punches when I could have paid $13 and gotten 20 punches. I felt what I did was better ethically and morally than what I could have done.

I guess we all do what we can live with.

ampersat - You have to ask how important your buddy is to you. I would tell your buddy his intentionally paying $6.50 for a replacement tag and getting 20 punches, rather than paying the $12 and getting 10 hatchery fish is not right and I would be turning him in to the OSP.

A younger Bait O' Eggs might have played your buddies game, but as I get older I have less tolerance for that stuff.

I can break a law I dont agree with, but yet tell you your buddy shouldnt do it. I guess that might seem strange to some people. images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/shocked.gif

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: Bait O' Eggs ]

[Trick]

The really sad thing about this is that we are up in arms over the netting issue. Then we here another story about a "sportsman" using his greed to cheat, steal and defraud the rest of us. While doing so he again drags us down a notch as a group. I really worry about people like this.

Where does a person like this stop breaking the rules. Does he snag? Does he fish closed waters? Does he obey hook restrictions? Does he adhere to daily/weekly limits (obviously he can't obey yearly limits)?

Amp, I would let him know how you and others feel about this. If he is wealthy enough to fish for sport, then he sure the hell has enough green on him to buy the hatchery tag. What a piece of garbage.

[Phish_on]

Like Mom used to say: "Time to find some new friends." images/icons/frown.gif

[willierower]

amperstat,
Tell your buddy to pickup the New STS and read the article about the Oregon State Police, I bet your buddy stops.

[Hoosier Daddy]

...or you could just start filching his tag when he isn't looking. After 10 or 15 new tags, he probably woudln't be as interested in cheating anymore. (65-97.50$, ouch). Probably would get him flagged too!!!

[fishpatrol]

A poacher is a poacher. Whether you do it a 'little' or a lot, you are still breaking the law. There are many shades of grey , especially in wildlife law enforcement, but once you start to cheat that little bit, like punch cards or hooks- it will catch up to you.
One word of advice- be honest. If you get caught tell the warden or trooper you messed up and take your lumps. Lie and you will pay lots of money and hopefully lose your opportunity to hunt or fish.
As for your friend, I say take a trooper fishing!

[Thumper]

Ampersat, your comment that "I have no problem with someone breaking the law when it doesn't affect me" is kind of surprising. Equally surprising is that you mainly object to your friend's behaviour because he might now catch excess fish that you could have caught. Are those the reasons that we should obey our fish and game laws? Think about it.

[Firedog]

Like has been said before poaching is poaching and he is stealing from all of us. $12 for an extra 10 fish is a good deal as far as I am concerned. I bought two of the tags when they came out just to preserve a few spots for fall chinook on my regular tag. one extra tag is about full and I would guess the other will be soon with the silvers gettign going hot and heavy. I would like to see oregon go to the system that washington has with your first tag being good for Salmon, steelhead and sturgeon and each tag after that only good for salmon. In washington you can catch as many salmon as you like for the year as far as I have been told, no annual limit.

[Dogfish]

An easy way to guide you in a moral dilema would be this. "Would I want my son or daughter to be involved in the same situation?" or "Would my kids be proud of what I did today?"

A good pair of boots (foundation) will protect you from sliding down the slippery slope.

Andy

[brshooter]

ampersat,
Too bad your friend has the attitude he does regarding catch limits.
Perhaps you could have him log onto ifish and read this thread. If he saw how other sportsmen, besides yourself, felt about this activity, he would take another look at his behavior. You have a decision to make. I don't think it is all that difficult if he does not have a change of heart.

Good Luck

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: brshooter ]

[ampersat]

actually, this guy seems pretty straight up, other than this issue. i did have to straighten him out about the coho season, though. he doesn't snag fish and he seems to obey all the other restrictions. he soothes his conscience by saying that he gives most of his fish away. i tried explaining to him that it doesn't matter who eats the fish, it's who catches the fish that really matters. he just laughs it off and offers me some fish.

he's a lurker on the board sometimes so maybe he'll see this on his own.

i think i will end up sending him an email about it. i'd discuss it face to face with him, but i want to make sure that i get my entire point across to him without interruptions.

as far as my motivations in this, it's partially for me (i've only got one fish on my tag so far this year images/icons/frown.gif ) and partially for everyone else out there. i've changed the tagline on my emails at work because of this situation (and a few others).

"The Rules" are that by which the unscrupulous rob society.

he's not only robbing other people of the opportunity to catch these beautiful fish but he's robbing the respectable among us of our good reputations. i guess that's what really bothers me most about it.

[FM2]

Ampersat, Your attitude towards this guy is awful soft. You asked for advice and from what I have read the majority agree this is a serious situation. Since you are the closest to this guy it's "your" responsibility to correct it, friend or no friend. Your liberal attitude really shows which in my book "stinks". I really don't like to rip people on a db but come on !! What will it take for you to take a position and tell this guy he's in left field on this issue. An email is too easy, he needs to hear it from your mouth LOUD and CLEAR, and he seems like he's pretty "straight up"....gimme a break...if he is doing this he is most likely doing other unlawful things too but probably no one wants to say anything !!

It's time for you to grow a backbone and tell this dorkisoid he is WRONG !! images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[Vinny]

Amp,
You do not have to say anything.
Just PRINT a copy of these responses and give it to him.

-OR- invite him to Fishstock 2001 where he can get an earful first hand. images/icons/shocked.gif

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: Vinny ]

[ampersat]

i am on the horns of a moral dilemna and i'm wondering how other ifish-ers would handle it.

i have a friend who every year makes it a point of filling his tag, then "losing" it so he can go get another one and keep taking fish. i was hoping that this year he would 'do the right thing' and buy one of the 10 hatchery fish tags. however, to my dismay, he did the same thing as last year - 'lost' his harvest card and picked up a replacement.

i don't have a problem with someone breaking a law when it doesn't impact me. it's their choice and they'll probably end up getting caught sooner or later. however, his actions do have an impact on me, somewhat. the fish he's taking are fish i might have caught had he not been out there. also, the likelihood that he'll get caught on his own is pretty slim.

what would you do if you had a friend who engaged in such behavior on a regular basis?

[smoky]

Lying/Cheating/Stealing its all wrong.

I remember a time in my life where 10$ was alot of money. Not even making it from paycheck to pay check. That was a long time ago. Ive been blessed since.

I only have three spots left on my harvest card. Saving them for fall kings.

I bought a hatchery tag for silvers and winter steelies.

Can this guy afford a hatchery tag? If not, and he is your friend give him the money.

If he can afford the tag, tell him how you feel about his decision. If he does not respect this, is he really a friend?

[Master Baiter]

Ampersat,

Fortunately, ODFW is in the process of closing the loop holes that allow people to do that. So if he keeps it up, he will get caught once the new system is fully operational. If he does it every year he will be setting off the red flags that will be in place.

As for now, if it was my "friend" I would have a nice but blunt conversation with him about your views of his illegalities and if he is not very receptive to your feelings on the subject then he would not be considered a "friend" any more and be down graded to an aquiantance or worse. If he was an A$$ about it then I would probably drop the dime on him and write him off completely. A true friend would care about your feelings and try to make right by you.

Hope this helps, good luck and tight lines!

Thomas

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: Master Baiter ]

[Hoosier Daddy]

What would Jesus do? (couldn't help it, ya seen those things at Wal-Mart?)

For those of us who watch SP: What would Brian Boitano do?

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

WWJD?

Who Wants Jack Daniels? images/icons/grin.gif