It's time to make a stand.....

[Clueless wonder]

I work with 2 ppl that live, breathe and sleep fishing (and post on this board 50 times a day) I've had the same 4 fish stories told to me a bazillion times, so I took it apon myself to do a little research and the facts state......


1. FACT: gill netters only got 6,000 spring chinook, the "SPORT" fisherman got over 100,000. HUmmmm a little one sided

2. FACT: The "SPORT" fishermen caught over 40,000 sturgeon while the gillnetters "selectively harvested" only 5,000.

Commercial fishermen are only trying to support their families, and earn a living that the U.S. government guarantees them...

Further more the numbers show that it is the socalled sports fishermen that is ****** the natural resources in our lakes, rivers and the ocean

Thank you for your time, BTW does anyone have a good recipe for smoked salmon??

End of sermon

[WheresMyBobber]

Very fitting moniker. Just trying to support their families. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[fiishawk]

If the commercial gillnetters only caught 11,,ooo fish How can they suport there families ? Most gillnetters have a regular jobs and gillnetting is just a side job.

[Capin' Dan]

Just so happens I know where this guy lives. I know all about his family and where they work, live and go to school. I know where he works and likes to hang out. So we can get him. And we will get him. Anybody have a good receipe for smoked tree hugger. We drive this guy nuts with our addiction. We will turn him yet. images/icons/grin.gif

[bait boy]

Quit trying to stir the pot even more. Come to the dark side "Luke I am your father"

[Clueless wonder]

Capin'Dan, I haven't heard the "Bad Halibut" story in at least 30 seconds, how does that go again? images/icons/rolleyes.gif

I've bet Dan on several occasions that he can't go 20 minutes without saying the word "fish", at this rate I'll be able to retire 10 years early.

Keep it up Dan and I'll reveal my source(s) I used for my fact finding mission. images/icons/tongue.gif

[DanS]

CW,

You must be in tremendous pain........
(Look at your signature.) images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[Baldpate Basher]

Looks like another person better-off ignored. I for one wonder about those "FACTS"? Your so called source is most likly as twisted as your topic. Leave it alone. images/icons/tongue.gif

[Salmonator]

After reading clueless wonders posts i'm thinking they will be gone here in a few weeks when grade school starts back up.

Ok, I have a joke for all of you.

Question: What is sadder than a guy who tells the same fish story over and over again?

Answer: Somebody who has nothing better to do in life than make fun of a guy who tells the same fish story over and over again images/icons/tongue.gif

[DF]

Ohh well your probly one of those vegitarians(sp) arnt ya.
Well its not fair.
At least the animals we eat have a chance, they can run and kick and all that stuff.
those poor plants cant even defend themselvs! Have you ever thought of people for ethical treatment of plants!?
mabey we should all start one
PETP
hahahaah images/icons/grin.gif
okay off to band camp! images/icons/cool.gif

[Hoosier Daddy]

Titus, not to defend someone I don't know, but I have seen the quota on the sturgeon somewhere (prob ODFW page or release or something), and the Lower Columbia sturgeon harvest was 4,700 fish total after the last fishing period (last week), which was below their quota. THIS IS JUST FOR FACTUAL PURPOSES, DOESN'T MEAN I LIKE IT OR ANYTHING.

[local_hooker]

What is the fastest thing in the world?

A tree hugger, on a bicycle, after dark, in north Idaho!

I'll bet that guy and this guy have attended some of the same rallies.

Sean

"we are all born ignorant, but stupidity is a choice"

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: local_hooker ]

[fishpatrol]

Having worked both sides of the equation, I can tell you are a little confused about the sport/ commercial interaction.

First, the right to fish, government authorized or encouraged does not exist. The privilege to fish does exist with careful management and control.

Commercial fishermen do have a 'right' to make a living, but it may not be by profiting off the PUBLIC resource. Tell the guy who invented steam powered cars that he should have a governmrnt 'right 'to make a living.

I encourage the careful harvest of resources with PROPER management. I have seen sport fishermen who take and take and take in what is a recreational fishery, I have also seen commercial fishermen discard more fish in one tow than any sporty could take in a lifetime.

Just remember privilege vs. right.

[Vinny]

Don't all of you have anything better to do on a Tuesday morning. images/icons/grin.gif Get off the internet. images/icons/tongue.gif
As for me, I'm just here avoiding the inevitable, taking apart the slipping minivan transaxle which I pulled yesterday. Then I can get outa this 100 degree weather and to the Real World!
Any automatic transmission experts out there? I might have some questions along the way.

[Tanner]

Some of you people better read the original post again. Somebody who supports gillnetting would not qualify as a tree hugger. Before you insult someone make sure you have your facts straight, otherwise it makes you look pretty dumb. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[4Salt]

Seems to me that those allocation facts are slightly in error.

Columbia Spring chinook allocation ESA impacts: Tribes - 13% Commercial - 1.1% Sport - .9%

If I'm not mistaken, those quota's were reached? Hence the closure of the in-river fisheries at the end of April.

I realize that this is probably a troll to stir up more resentment. I think DanS' response sums up my feelings on this thread very nicely. images/icons/smile.gif

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: 4Salt ]

[local_hooker]

"it is the socalled sports fishermen that is ****** the natural resources in our lakes, rivers and the ocean"

Tanner--

Although siding with commercial harvest is not an ideology amoung the "tree hugger", advocating extreme conservation (see stats in original post), and viciously attacking any other form of use(see above quote) is tree hugger ideology.

When I made the tree hugger joke it was aimed at extremist ideals, not necessarily CW himself (or herself).

In fact it was just a joke.

Sorry for looking dumb.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

1. FACT: gill netters only got 6,000 spring chinook, the "SPORT" fisherman got over 100,000. HUmmmm a little one sided
------>Columbia Spring chinook allocation ESA impacts: Tribes - 13%, Commercial- 1.1%, Sport - .9%

2. FACT: The "SPORT" fishermen caught over 40,000 sturgeon while the gillnetters "selectively harvested" only 5,000.
------->During these selective harvests, how many chinook, and other fish, were by-catch, not to mention terminated by-catch? What about cutting the tails off of sturgeon who get caught in the nets during chinook selective harvest?

"Commercial fishermen are only trying to support their families, and earn a living that the U.S. government guarantees them..."
------>Ummmm, if the U.S. gov't guaranteed anyone a living, then why do we have unemployed, homeless persons sleeping on the streets? And what about minorities who have taken advantage of the more babies=more money clause in Social Security?

"Further more the numbers show that it is the socalled sports fishermen that is ****** the natural resources in our lakes, rivers and the ocean"
---->Ummm what numbers have you posted that even presents a case in your favor that is not propaganda? Wow, you posted "2" so-called facts to support your theory, but do not include any numbers for tribal gillnetters' by-catch and commercial netters' by-catch, not to mention just plain, catch numbers.

While you are searching for your facts, you may want to look for your head. I'm willing to bet that it's stuck up a certain orifice. At least you will probably have a good laugh to see how many people actually posted to your thread. Remember this moniker for years to come as it gains in political support.................... images/icons/mad.gif
Then you can come at me with your earning a living talk because I see re-training in the near future for these netters. images/icons/wink.gif

"Don't come to a battle of wits unarmed."

[Point-of-Sale Clerk]

Well I have been reading the debates that have occurred on this and other forums regarding gill nets and believe that misinformation seems to be the rule rather than the exception.

First, with regards to statements made by Killertraylor and Clueless Wonder, although I disagree with what they say and would spend an entire lifetime disagreeing with what they have said, I would never the less defend their right to say it. As sportsmen we cannot afford to ignore all of the factors that influence both the size and quality of our historical resource. A resource that improves the quality of life in our great Pacific Northwest as well as make living here unique. A resource that we have allowed special interest groups to control, and no not tree huggers. How many of you know that many of the people on the Oregon fish and game commission work for commercial fishing? How many of you saw the new legislation that would have banned anyone with ties to commercial fishing from serving on the Commission? How many of you wrote your legislator to support it? Too busy fishing huh?

We seem to pick on gill nets because we see every day just how many they take and what their impact is on our fishing in each river. Unfortunately it is the hidden impacts that we as sports fishermen should address.

Information found at: http://www.nwr.noaa.gov/1sustfsh/fisheries_statistics/8runrpt.txt

Allows us to compare total commercial harvest in the State of Oregon for May 2000 and May 2001.

For May of 2000 the total harvest of species #065 – Chinook salmon – 194,000 lbs with an average price paid of $2.40 a pound.

For May of 2001 the total harvest of species #065 - Chinook salmon – 1,142,000 lbs with an average price paid for the month of May of $1.49 a pound with prices dipping as low as $0.75 a lbs.

Can we afford to allow this resource that so many people have worked so hard to improve and so much tax dollars have been spent on to be sold for 75 cents a lb?

Why if prices are so low do we allow commercial interests to harvest 6 times what they did last year?

What if we asked for a rule that suspended commercial harvest when wholesale prices drop below $2.00 a pound?

What if we made salmon a “sport fish” like we did with steelhead and stopped commercial harvest altogether?

These numbers only represent the amount of salmon that is landed in Oregon. Can you imagine what the totals would be if you calculated all the Oregon fish that are harvested by Washington, Canadian, and Alaskan commercial fishermen?

We are always arguing over the crumbs and never seem to see the whole picture, what a pity

*** Clerk

[Deleted User]

Good take *** Clerk; and also Fishpatrol, 4salt, and my friend Mike (Hey_Yall). I will also add that such stats like Clueless posted don't take into account that the numbers of fish taken by commercial gillnets are by a relatively scant number of guys (who have other better paying jobs). The numbers of fish taken by sportfishers are from hundreds of thousands of people who pay for these fish via taxes and license fees - which accumulated make all commercial license fees accumulated miniscule and out of proportion to a great extent! The per capita impact on our fish resources are overwhelmingly greater by commercial gillnetters - especially on native fish runs! The sportfishers positive impact on the economy is also enormous. ... So, why exactly is this anonmally still allowed to continue? images/icons/confused.gif

Thanks for more opportunity to expose the truth about the imbalanced impact by a few gillnetters Clueless. I for one am glad you were clueless to these factors. images/icons/grin.gif

RT

[DF]

Tanner,
I just wanted to post my tree hugger joke images/icons/grin.gif

Hey Ya'll.. good stuff man good stuff

-Dustin

[DanS]

***,

THANK YOU for providing real numbers so that everyone can stop insisting this thread has no value. I provided numbers earlier that the state of Oregon calculated regarding the cost to produce their returning fish and the revenues that could be realized if this resource was commercially or recreationally harvested. You can choose to ignore these numbers, discredit the source, pass it off as KT did, throw your hands up, or you can claim the whole thread is a waste of time....that's up to you.

I'm glad the mods left the thread virtually untouched, it's a discussion that needs to take place if we want to take an active role in our fisheries management. If you think KT is good, wait until you hear the commercial net industry's lobbyists and lawyers give their shpiel. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

This might be my last post, but then again............ images/icons/grin.gif

[Gooseman]

I don't dispute the numbers(?), but of all the times I've been fishing this year(43-45 complete trips), total number of times I've been checked = 2. I don't place alot of faith in the numbers/averages that the Fish & Game departments use.

During the last waterfowl season, the number of times I was checked = 24 for 32-33 complete trips. That doesn't include the number of times I was harassed by a sheriff's "safety" check at o'dark thirty before leaving the boat ramp. The 8-9 times I wasn't checked, were hunts on private property.

[Tryin2Fish]

You know reading all these notes has got me thinking. This year I have fished more than any other year, and to tell you the truth it just doesn't seem like ODFW cares a whole lot about what sport fisherman take.

For instance, the ocean coho quota of 112,000 (10,000 saved for sept.) is only 45% filled, at least that is the last number that I saw. Now the question is, how many of you have gone to the ocean and not returned with a boat limit? Answer for me is it hasn't happened yet. So do you think that only 48,000 +/- coho have been taken from the ocean? I think not. The point is the numbers that are counted are only a percentage of the entire run and thereby not accurate as actual harvested fish. You cannot get a very accurate number when you only sample at hammond and sometimes the warrenton boat ramp on the skipanon river.

I have my boat moored there and have never been checked. Yesterday was the closest I came when out by buoy 2 a game boat pulled along side and we chatted for a couple of minutes. The harvested numbers allowed come from a much bigger picture, involving commercial, sport fishing, and Indian Treaties. Debateing it here will not do much. We should all be hunting those elusive nookies.

Happy hunting

[Master Baiter]

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: Master Baiter ]

[Point-of-Sale Clerk]

Although I have always believed everyone, irregardless of their personal opinions, has something to contribute to a discussion, I find little redeeming qualities in your previous post. Further, because of your position as well as location, I feel that you may have very little to contribute. I will happily change this opinion I have formed regarding your input when I see constructive posts attributed to you.


*** Clerk

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: *** Clerk ]

[Master Baiter]

OK, I took 20 minutes in the penalty box and realized that this topic far too personal for some of you and I can respect that so I retracted the original post. My intention was not to say that the "general" subject was not important but rather a sarcastic way of saying that this will always be an agree to disagree issue. Someone spouts facts or numbers and another that disagrees says that the facts or numbers are bogus or biased. So, what then can we TRUELY say is an actual FACT, water is wet? How can anything be accomplished without a FACT? I said that it was MOSTLY, not all, useless rhetoric, by the definition of rhetoric and the reasoning above the statement could fit. I apologize for my untactful approach.

I was shocked when I heard that white folks can use nets up there! It is simple here, the only people allowed to use gill nets are Natives and that is only on the Klamath River. I have been down on the river by myself and had a group of native netters show and set immediately downstream just because I was there and proceed to catch every fish that I might have had a chance to catch.

FISH ON!

Thomas

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: Master Baiter ]

[Nanook]

Ban All Nets! images/icons/frown.gif

http://www.animfactory.com/animations/money/bills_coins/dime_spin_md_clr.gif

[Point-of-Sale Clerk]

Master Baiter

I for one, am a great proponent of freedom. And just as you have the right to post where ever you please, we here have the same right to post what ever we please.

I am sorry if I implied that your location left you with little to add to this discussion. I keep forgetting that the Klamath Basin extends to California as well, a geographical limitation on my part from being born and raised in Northwestern Oregon.

As to my feelings, although I can feel better after winning a good argument, I generally have a better feeling after participating in a good discussion.


*** Clerk

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: *** Clerk ]

[DanS]

MB,

Don't like the thread? Then stop reading it.....is that simple enough for you?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>FACT: This is mostly alot of useless rhetoric!]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe its useless to you, but maybe that's a reflection on you rather than the information. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[Timber Man]

"Commercial fishermen are only trying to support their families, and earn a living that the U.S. government guarantees them..."



I wish the U.S. government would guaranty me a living images/icons/rolleyes.gif do you think others don't have families?


BAN ALL nets!!!Right eggman?Muh ha ha ha


Local_Hooker- I think they are just as fast in Washington.. images/icons/smile.gif

Go ahead Mods you just as well delete this one too!!!!TM

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: THE REEL HEY_YALL ]

[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: The Reel Timber Man ]

[Krome Brite]

Somebody give the poor brotha a freaking recipe for smoking fish! That's all he was really asking for in the first place. images/icons/grin.gif

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

lmao @ Timber Man and ROTF to Krome Brite's reply because I can just hear Chris Rock saying it just like that too. images/icons/cool.gif

[SailCat]

Hmph ... I thought this would be a post about hunting ... the construction of a tree-based platform from which one coould spot deer.

I guess the 'Clueless Wonder' meant to say take a stand, huh ....

~MT

[boater]

here`s how and what i use to smoke salmon
2 gallons vinager
1 pound iodized salt
a few packages of koolaid mix, grape flavor is best

fillet fish to desired size
pour vinager in plastic bowl
place fillets of salmon in bowl and let them soak for 24 hours
mix salt and koolaid mix together in seperate dish
after salmon comes out of tub, place in mixture of salt and coolaid and totaly cover fish for 1 hour
place fish on smoker rack
smoke with hickory chips for 24 hours
put new chips in every 1/2 hour until done


hope this helps.......