Oregon Fishing Club

[jcarufo]

As a new member of this board I don't want to cause any waves, but while I was reading "what colors s/s see and react to" I noticed FishinMishin2 mentioned being a member of the Oregon Fishing Club. I have some real philisophcal problems with the club's ethic and wondered if someone could explain how a club of it's type contributes to the ethic that fishing is for everyone and to share knowledge and experience is a greater reward than catching fish itself.
I've fished Tillamook for over 25 years and have seen my favorite hole, "the Pig Pen Hole" as well as many others, go from access for all to posted "oregon Fishing club members only" with nasty, elitist attitudes expressed by the 'members' fishing there. I remember October low slacks fishing on the little beach there with a retired gentleman in his late 70's that lived in the trailer park on the south side of the river. We would meet every morning of the series at the style, pay our 50 cents and I'd help him carry his things across the field. We would fish through the tide until we both limited, pick up any garbage others had left and I'd help him carry his things and fish back to the style. I'm sure neither of us can afford to fish the hole anymore.
In all those years, I've never been denied access to closed property where I've asked permission of the land owner until the oregon fishing club. Land owners have been coersed with money by the elite few to deny what was once open to all. I've heard the argument that the 'masses' abused property rights. If there was such a concern, wouldn't a mass education campaign be more in keeping with the ethic that this board seems to expound: that information and access to opportunity belongs to us all? As a young person I was fortunate enough to have people share their knowledge and experience with me and I feel it my responsibility and pay back to share that attained knowledge and experience as well. OFC's expressed goal and past practice to lock up prime fishing access for the few that can pay for it, just doesn't seem to satisfy a philosophy that fishing is an experience belonging to everyone that will change one's life forever. As an Emergency Department Nurse I probably could afford the cost to join and the yearly dues if I ever wanted to, but what about a young or retired person that might not have the funds to do so?
Am I all wet or just naive? Will somebody set me straight? Thanks and Have a Great Day!

[Smj]

jcarufo, In my lowly opinion I agree with you. One thing about this club, and the proliferation of guides in the last few years is that they make a living off of the fish that thousands of US pay for.

Just my 2 cents---Smj

[Gone Fishin]

Thanks smj for paying for ALL the fish so I can make my living as a guide. (Or, was that you and everyone else paid for the fish...just not me?) I really appreciate that (as does my family), but please don't forget that I indeed pay my license fees and get involved with projects through STEP programs volunteering countless hours every year to such programs, heck, I've even been known to help out at Cedar Creek Hatchery now and then, (I'm sure you were just leaving as I got there) and donating trips and revenue to The Oregon Wildlife Heritage Foundation that works on fish projects as well.

Oh, but again, THANKS for all you've done for me!
images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/shocked.gif

[ 08-05-2001: Message edited by: Gone Fishin ]

[Salmonator]

Maybe they should create a new law requiring that clients must buy and carry their own tags and licenses instead of just putting all those fish on Martys tag? That way they can help pay for smj's fish too! images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[jcarufo]

FWF-1, take your drift boat down the lower trask sometime and anchor in the hole just below the 101 bridge and see what kind of reception you get from the members that arrive AFTER you have been there for hours waiting for the tide. My experience with OFC members has never been a cordial one. I'm not saying that you are not, just that my experience has not been a pleasant one. Also our perceptions are a little different in that you are not purchasing the right to fish PRIVATE PROPERTY. That right to grant belongs to the property owner. What you and other members have purchased is the right to fish on land leased by the OFC for the exclusive use of it's members. Also, my perception is that the initiation fee and yearly membership fee were rather steep. Would you care to enlighten me as to the actual cost at present? I may be way off base here.
I just feel it's sad that as a people we have created a society that only tolerates being with others not of our choosing and 'groups' like ofc feels the need to profit from and perpetuate the haves and have nots. The river/fish belong to and should be stewarded by all the people of Oregon.
I hope we get an opportunity to fish on the river together someday and maybe continue this conversation. Have a Great Day!

[Hummingbird]

jcarufo,
images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/frown.gif Sounds like somebody needs to go fishing. There's plenty of places to go get away from the "Crowd" if you really want to take the time and not Dump your Inner Hostilities on people who make a living getting others into fish or helping others learn to fish. I have went with several guides in the last year and although we did not bring one home, I truely enjoyed the fact I was in a peaceful place and the guide tried everything he knew to get me a fish. None of them offered to put any fish on their tag either. Fishing is not about Blaming a Club or other guides who work hard for their boats and living. Everyone out their has one desire and it is to be at peace with your self and the outdoors. This board is for people to SHARE,not Bicker! Do something productive and go teach someone to fish!!!1 images/icons/mad.gif That my .02 cents . Tom

[boater]

clubs like this realy stink, i dont believe in denying access to an area that people have fished for years, what about the people that cant afford the 40 bucks a month ? you may be "at peace" fishing these closed area`s but what about the guy that grew up fishing these area`s and now has a family and cant afford to show his son where he grew up fishing, has that ever entered your mind ? i dont think so.

[Joe Schwab]

Ditto to what Marty had to say about the guide issue. One other thing you might consider. All those people who hire guides could be out there with their own boats if they chose to do so. Let's see, 4-6 passengers in a guide boat divided by two, thats 2-3 more boats on the water for each guide boat out there now. Not a pleasant thought. It's not like the guides catch the fish and then give them out to the clients.

[Hummingbird]

Boater ,
I wasn't trying to step on any toes and I DO know what it's like not being able to go to the old places I grew up on and what it's like Not being able to afford to pay for a fishing club fee(which I would never do any way),or be able to afford to take a kid out fishing.I should have been more thoughtful for the less fortunate. I ,by no means can afford the $40.00 a month either. I directing my statement more to the Guides.They try hard to get clients into fish .Sometimes people go home with no fish but the feeling they got to go out and do something other than yard work or just working. I spent good money on guides and caught zilch, but, I am not going to blame them . I had a good time trhough. I'm sorry if I sounded like I was defending the Club.
If you need a fishing ride someday, letme know, I don't have a boat either ,but ,I try to get away on Thursday and Friday's/ Drop me a line. Tom

[Smj]

No disrespect intended Capt. Hook but I think the guides do catch the fish. The guide usually uses his rods, reels, lines, lures, bait, ties every thing up and sometimes puts the lines out. When the guide hooks a fish he even passes it off to a client. More boats on the water fishing would mean more $$ in rods, tackle, bait, boating equipment, boat launch fees etc. AND the little sir charge on all that equipment that goes to improve the fish runs. That is my point! Please don't tear me up too bad for printing an opinion.

---Smj images/icons/frown.gif

[sturgn]

SMJ,
You say "More boats on the water fishing would mean more $$ in rods, tackle, bait, boating equipment, boat launch fees etc." Alot of my customers can't afford the investment for this! but they can afford 1 trip a year with a guide! Also you said that you and your wife total about dozen or so fish a year, for the license you pay the same, but most of my customers will get only 2 salmon per year... seems they may be paying for your fish!

Just my .02 worth!

[ampersat]

boy, i knew this was going to be a images/icons/mad.gif hot images/icons/mad.gif one when i saw it posted. let's try not to get too personal on this one. the board is here to help people get info, not to slam on folks. also, this thread is about the OFC, not guides. if you want to slam on guides, start a new post for it. heck, i'll even go start the thread after i get done with this. (all you guides out there: don't get mad at me. i'm just trying to keep the discussion narrow and on topic in this thread.)

now, my .02.

i don't own a boat and i'm not a member of the OFC. the few holes that i fish are either in oxbow park on the sandy, downstream at jack's or on public lands on the clack. i highly recommend oxbow park, by the way. for $35 a year, you get access to some pretty unspoiled land where no motors are allowed and fishing from a floating device of any kind is illegal. also, your yearly pass to oxbow is good at chinook landing on the columbia, just in case you own a boat.

my opinion on the OFC is that the land belongs to someone and they can do with it whatever they wish. if they choose to lease it to the OFC, fine. if they want to build a half a million dollar mansion on it and pollute the river maintaining a golf course-like lawn, that's their business. it's a shame that it can't remain open to the public; however, these days, profit is just flat out more important to some people.

as for the OFC members' elitist attitudes, i can see their point. whatever money they pay to be on this land, they expect to receive a certain "experience", which includes, i suppose, good fishing holes that don't have drift boats parked in them. if they wanted to fish that kind of water, there are plenty of places where they can do that for free.

bottom line: we are all out to have a good time in the great outdoors with our friends, and hopefully catch a fish or two. let's all try to be a little bit more understanding of the other guy out there. somebody may be paying for the land they walked across to get to the water, but no one owns the river itself. we all deserve equal opportunity to enjoy it and benefit from it.

[sturgn]

Well stated ampersat images/icons/smile.gif

[Smj]

sturgn, Only if you give your guide fee for the day for those two fish to fisheries resources. No, really I see your point there, client already has license, $16.00 for the Salmon/St/Hal tag for only two salmon, I get it.

Seeing as Marty hasn't replied to me yet, would you care to tell me how many Salmon/Steelhead/Sturgeon you remove from the rivers for paying customers per year, or how much the guide license is, it's not some big secret is it?

Peace---Smj

[boater]

ive been reading the website for the OFC real estate company and i hope others do to, the main goal of it is to lease as much property as possible and move into washington and do the same, guides belong to it also along with regular folk. so long public fishing on private land with the owners permission, hello game dept. access sites.

[SteelieSteve]

I'm against any group of people forming a private club and buyng up what was once land open to the public, and closing the water to those that were there before. Has to be partly the states fault for not keeping it public land. I've seen it on too many rivers and always get a little ticked.

[FM2]

I would like to comment on the topic of this thread, the Oregon Fishing Club.

I have been a member for about 7 years. I have fished around Oregon for over 20 years. There is a common sight I beleive many people will attest too, there are many more fisherman today than 20 years ago. I have a family now and my sons and daughters enjoy fishing because I have taken them many places to enjoy this hobby. Unfortunately due to the growth of the fishing population there is fewer and fewer places to take family and even if I want to go myself to a favorite place many times it is already crowded with many people especially when the fish are running. I don't necessarily see this as a negative rather I have learned to live with it as times change. What this has done for me is to research alternatives to enjoy a hobby that I love and respect and have enjoued since I have can remember. I have boats now that I can afford them to get to water that others cannot reach but that requires time and expense. Sometimes I would just like to fish without the boat but because of pressures of crowds and the increasing private property access I have been limited to where I can go. I joined OFC for many reasons which some have been outline from others in this thread. I am not promoting this club and if you read a past thread I started regarding this exact topic I DO struggle with the leadership of this organization. That is my personal bias, however the club has many programs, events, locations and other ammenities to offer than just "exclusive" river access. I have found this a great place to take my young children to in the Portland area and around the state as they have many sites available that have trophy fish and planter fish available. I can take my children to a place to catch fish and several locations have camping available for $5 per night and you don't have to deal with the crowds. What better time could you show your kids that they can catch fish and not have to deal with some of the people you meet these days that turn a fun time into a bummer. The club also offers many clinics, tips, fishing reports, fishing trips, a hotline number and many other informative programs for folks to obtain information regarding NW fishing. Again, I am not promoting the club but rather would like to see people have a more positive attitiude towards this organization as I believe they are somewhat cutting edge in having a vision that the public is seeking an entity such as this.

The guides that are on staff provide a great deal of information to the members in various forms. I have had both good and bad experiences with them but I at this time continue to pay my quarterly dues ($45 every 3 mos) to support the club. I don't think it is fair to condemn the club for the private access as an agreement is reached between the landowner and club for these rights and ultimately the landowner makes the decision. I am also saddened my the loss of access on some rivers but on the same hand the landowners may have had enough frustration with allowing access to everyone that they felt it was in their best interest to agree to this type of structure.

I would encourage anyone to check out all the facts regarding the OFC before forming an opinion...positive or negative. Again I have reservations about the leadership but I also beleive they are doing their best to educate their members on fishing in the NW.

[Gone Fishin]

Smj,

Didn't mean to come down to harsh or sarcastic but when you group all guides in one lot and start making generalizations...

There are guides out there who don't give a d*** about the resource that they take from, and will stick a knife in the last one and move on to the next river. But fortunately they are few. There are those that act like total jerks on the water and think they own the place, truth is they are just borrowing time on the water. The more they make jerks of themselves the more it will come back to haunt them eventually.

I don't consider myself or the guides listed on this site as members of the above. So if I sounded harsh, sorry, it struck a nerve.

As far as how many fish my clients take home; Everybody that fishes with me pays license and tag fees for the opportunity to angle. I don't see where it makes any difference if you take that opportunity and fish from a boat, the bank, or with a guide if you so choose. You paid, go fishin'!

The guides license fee for the State of Oregon is $100. ($50 if you only use a non-motorized vessel) Of course you must also provide proof of liability insurance. And, if you operate a motorized vessel you must have a Coast Guard License to carry passengers for hire. And then there's a few other rules and regulations to go with that.

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.

-Marty

[Chris Nordling]

As far as I know, the OFC does not own any of the properties we use, they simply lease them. I have spoken with many of these property owners, and they seem pretty satisfied with what the club does for them.They seem to enjoy being able to have someone responsible for monitoring what is essentially their own backyards. I don't know if that's true or not, but they do seem happy.
I am truly sorry if anyone has had bad experiences at the "pig pen hole" unfortunately, not all apples in the bunch are good. As far as losing access that we grew up fishing, that's just life, I deal with that on everywhere I fish. Thing's tend to change from year to year. Since I have joined the club,we too have lost property on a few rivers. The bottom line is that this is someone's land, and they can do pretty much whatever they want with it.
Basically I LOVE to fish.Public or private, boat or shore, I just enjoy fishing.Whether it's at the Clack for silvers with 10,000 of my closest friends images/icons/wink.gif or at a club lake chasing trophy trout and bass in solitude, it's all about the first few seconds when the fish realizes it hooked, that's what makes me go back for more! images/icons/grin.gif

Tight lines all,
Chris images/icons/cool.gif

[jcarufo]

FishinMishin2, Thank you for your post. When I started this thread I was looking for a member perspective and a discussion of the ethical delemma OFC's stated mission presents. Two points I'd like to make: first is that much of the water now posted by OFC was up until that time available by asking permission of the land owner and respecting their ownership, or was posted accessable for a small fee ie. 50 cents for the pig pen hole on the trask. In other words, if you were curtious and showed stewardship, access was available. I had been fishing on the coast like that since the mid 70's. Along comes the OFC and access to those same areas cost hundreds of dollars per year. Today that wouldn't be a financial problem, but in 1976, as a poor student, I would have been denied some of the most remorable fishing experiences of my life. Not the catching of fish, obviously that happened, but the sharing of experience with countless other fishermen and fisherwomen I have met on the bank there. I thought that that's what the fishing experience is all about. And secondly, isn't it sad that if OFC's programs and information are so great that they aren't available to everyone? How many kids like yours that can't afford it would benefit? Anyway, thanks again for the post. Have a Great Day! Tight Lines.

[Chris Nordling]

jcarufo-

I don't think that you even know what you are talking about! images/icons/mad.gif As on OFC member, I must defend what I pay for, and that is the right to fish on PRIVATE PROPERTY. I'm am sorry to hear that you are no longer able to fish some of your old favorite holes. I encounter this anytime I fish outside of these private locations. The lack of public land to fish these days is horrible on most rivers and streams, and to compete with boats and other anglers shoulder to shoulder in the "Hot Spots" is nothing to be desired. That's why the OFC appealed to me. The cost was minimal, and the results have been pretty good so far. Along with rivers, they also have several ponds to take the kids to. As far as any elitist attitudes, remember that you could be Tresspassing on someone else's land. We are always friendly to those who have landowner permission. Don't get me wrong, I still fish on public land, and I recently purchased a driftboat images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif , but I still enjoy the solitude of fishing with just me,my friends, and family. You really should check us out. OFC will have a booth at the state fair and they are at most sports shows in the spring. They also have a website, or you can talk with Steelhead Steve, he is a listed guide and a member of the OFC.

Tight lines.
Chris images/icons/cool.gif

[Smj]

I wasn't singling anybody out Marty, I don't pay for all the fish either. Let me say Marty that I respect what you do, on this BB and your volunteer work. Seeing as you responded fairly harsh and sarcastic to my lowly opinion please answer a couple of questions for me. How much does a guides license cost per year and how many salmon/steelhead do your paying clients take home with them per year?

Thanks Sal for offering to help pay for my fish but I can hadle the dozen or so fish that my wife and I together catch per year.

Again, No offense intended here, just an observation over the last ten years or so. There are some waters that I don't even fish any more because of the number of guides that act like they own the water, either under your boat or directly in front of you. I'm not talking about you Marty, I assume you to be one of the nicest guides in Oregon. PEACE---Smj

[Deleted User]

FM2, I can understand your desire to have an uncrowded bank fishing place for you and your kids because it's so crowded in the non-OFC places. But what you may not understand, or don't care about, is the fact that this concept that seemingly enables an entity such as the OFC to tie up access crowdes everywhere else up more for the rest of us. What if a huge number of "the rest of us", not any OFC members, purchased up access to ALL non OFC river banks and your rented holes dried up. What would be your thoughts about not having access to any good fishing holes be then? I bet your attitude would change.

I also understand Jcarufo's points; and I cannot find significant intrinsic wrong with them. As Ampersat wrote, "somebody may be paying for the land they walked across to get to the water, but no one owns the river itself. We all deserve equal opportunity to enjoy it and benefit from it." ... This brings up the crux of this issue, which hasn't been fully explored here yet - that OFC members have purchased the rights to cross private property and fish from the banks of that leased property, but they have not and cannot lease the right to fish the river! That right is purchased from the state in the form of a fishing license. If a non-OFC member has purchased a fishing license they also have the right to fish that same piece of water, as long as they don't unlawfully cross priveat property to access it. If the non OFC fishers driftboat into this water by the banks of the OFC leased land, or a bank angler wades into the same water below the mean high water mark after crossing other permissable land, they both have the legal right to fish the water that the OFC mistakenly thinks they have exclusive rights to fish. And this is ethically so if the non-OFC fishers legally arrive in the water first. I expect when this happens that some OFC members may snibble, holler, lie to, or even threaten such fishers in attempt to get them out of public waterways with public purchased fish in it (as Jcarufo experienced in the Trask hole below the 101 bridge). But I don't think they would be wise to try bringing in educated law enforcement officers or law suits to keep out rightful river users, because the land owners may find that they no longer have a 'market' to lease exclusive fishing rights to - because on a majority of rivers they don't. They only have the right to except money for the right to be on there land. Don't be angry with me OFC - I'm just the messenger.

The state of Oregon made a very appropriate move when they declared our beaches to be legal publicly accessable land - much to the chagrin of the fortunate that owned land by the ocean and wanted the beaches to themselves. I feel the same way about the mountains and rivers of this land - they are a gift of God to everyone; not something that should be able to be snatched away from the majority by a fortunate few. It's a different story for those that have earned the right to own more houses and fancier cars and lobster tails and etc. - but not the right to own the Earth. Just my $0.02 worth opinion.

RT

[ 08-07-2001: Message edited by: RT ]

[Chris Nordling]

I should really make it clear that I am just a member of the OFC doing nothing more than defending what I enjoy. I am like most of you, an average person that enjoys fishing. A person who enjoys it enough to temporarily lease the right to cross one's land to fish in one of many fine rivers in our region. The OFC only provides me with 12 locations on 10 different rivers, none of which are more than 1.3 miles long. Sadly this only accounts for a small % of the bank fishing that I do, which is almost a daily occurance.Some rivers have no boat access, and some with only a few months a year to fish it.What I've seen with this thread is that people want to blame the OFC for lack of river access, and tying up supposed great holes on rivers, but what we keep overlooking is the fact that bank access on many of our rivers is less than to be desired, and this in no way really is any fault of the OFC or it's members. As far as who gets where first is almost always complicated by navigable waterways.I've been asked to leave other rivers(Kilchis), by other landowners who claimed they owned the rocks that the anchor was near! I would just love to see more holes like those near 3 rivers, places where honesty and a buck can get you a handful of fish in an afternoon,and that all can enjoy, members of a club or not.

Don't let the big one get by, get out and fish!

Chris images/icons/cool.gif

[KrystalFlash]

Hey Y'all

Don't you all think that this is just a little bit silly? All that is really going on with clubs like these is:

There is a group of guys that got together and said, "Hey, let's start a fishing club."
and they did. Then they said, "Hey, let's go out and talk to some people and see if we can find some areas for the club to fish." and they did. They did not go out with the intention of taking anyone's fishing area or "favorite hole" away from them. There is NO ill will intended here and I don't think we should promote any. That wouldn't do much good or promote fishing in any way.

I have to say this. I have had a couple of experiences with less than friendly guides, but I would much rather talk about all of the positive things that I have learned from most of them. They're just guys/gals trying to make a living. All of the guides that I know are Top-notch sportsmen. You will learn if you listen to them. I can't think of a better way to spend my time, unless it's on MY boat. images/icons/smile.gif

The bottom line here is: There are always some people who are less friendly than you would expect, there is nothing that can be done about that. But there is something that we can do: Be a GOOD example, PLEASE DO NOT WHINE!!! There are enough whiners in our political arena, we don't need any more.

Think about this:
There are thousands of miles of rivers, lakes, bays and OCEANS to fish, and thousands of guys that aren't going to yell at you. So go somewhere else, or give me a call, we'll go.

[ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: KrystalFlash ]

[Deleted User]

Get to bed KF; I'm the only one who posts after 3:00 am images/icons/smile.gif . just kidding

But I want to say that I don't think this issue is silly at all. It has been and continues to be a growing problem - not just OFC specifically, but all fishing access issues - with big future ramifications for all. Not something to downplay this time; or wrongly refer to as "whinning".

RT

[Nanook]

Fishing clubs, especially the OFC that takeover prime public spots? GIT' outta hear yur! images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/shocked.gif

http://www.fortunecity.com/millennium/rose/1328/bigfishbanner.gif

[ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: ****** ]

[blackdog]

KrystalFlash, I think you are kidding yourself when you say the people who started these clubs had no ill will or no intent to take anyone's favorite fishing holes away. I think this is exactly why they probably started. A group of guys gets tired of fighting the rest of the public to get the best spots, and they decide to see if they can't lock it up for themselves. What other reason could they have? If they wanted to share, they wouldn't lock it up. It's just like everything else these days, the rich just keep getting richer. I don't look forward to trying to get my kids (that is, if I ever get married and have kids) into hunting and fishing, and not having many public opportunities left that aren't tied up for private use. images/icons/mad.gif

[FM2]

jcarufo,

I certainly empathize your position on access to river locations that have been available throughout time. Ask yourself this question, Why has the landowner agreed to grant access rights to OFC ? I will say I don't know enough about the lease agreements to provide specific details but my common sense says it is more than financial which I think has been implied by others. I too miss much of the commaradire I experienced in my younger years but I have learned to adapt to the changing times. I have lived in the same area for 18 years and the people and traffic is horrible now but I have learned to adapt to this. I believe the OFC mission is to help people catch fish, not become arrogant numskulls that want to see how much river they can accumulate. Again, I question the leadership but I also believe their hearts are to help and promote the sport of fishing. They put on charity events each year to help underpriveledged kids enjoy fishing with all volunteer help which is a free event and grows each year so they do reach out in a "socially responsible" manner. I just think folks will need to be more flexible in their fishing adventures due to ever increasing pressure.

RT, I appreciate your openness and your feedback. OFC has many inland ponds that I take my children to that allows them to enjoy the outdoors and the sport. One thing I believe is discouraging for kids is not catching fish (me too!)and this venue provides the opportunity for them to catch fish. I still take them to steams and lakes to fish so they can be well rounded in their sport. (I know someday when my daughters get married that some guy will appreciate the time I spent teaching them about fishing images/icons/smile.gif )
I do care deeply about anyone having access to any river but some of this frustration needs to be directed to the landowners. Why are they doing what they do ? Whenever I'm fishing these areas and I see someone else I don't ask them to leave but I may be more of a minority in that area. Some landowners have become very protective of their land and river access and really don't know where their rights begin and end. You know in navigable and unnavigable rivers the property line different. Maybe the landowners should be educated on this issue. I agree the rivers belong to everyone and will always support this, I just believe OFC is getting a negative rap for a small percentage of river access, but in the larger picture OFC provides many benefits to hundreds of people.

[Bait O' Eggs]

I am aware the OFC is actively trying to get additional land to make there "service" more desireable. My dad has been contacted by OFC for a lease deal, and as always, they will hear NO!!!

Back in the early 80's or maybe it was the late 70's (memory gets fuzzy) The farmer that owned the access to the rock hole on the Trask got tired of 10,000 + people fishing and only receiving $1200 in his $0.50 can. 12 people proposed to pay the farmer $100 each for the "fishing rights" (trespassing rights). The farmer loved the idea, somebody to blame for the garbage, less traffic on his road, The same amount of money he got under the current set up with less people leaving the gate open for the cows to get out. etc etc... This little club has grown to 22 members now. they regulate it pretty heavy, and if you are on the bank and dont have a permission slip you will be getting into a confrontation very soon. I use to fish it as a young man, now I had better have my boat, or I have to go somewhere else. images/icons/frown.gif At the same time, it is the farmers field, and he can do with it what he wants as far as granting permission to who he wants.

I am sure there are other private fishing clubs out there I dont know about. Where I deer hunt in central Oregon, the rancher next to the property I hunt, charges $500 per day to hunt his land for deer. Anybody with a thick wallet can hunt it. I watch doughballs across the fence every year looking like a GQ hunting coverboy. Pretty steep price for a lousy mule deer in my opinion. You can elk hunt at the same place for $1000 a point. Do I agree with the system,.... I dont know,... but I cannot afford to hunt on that side of the fence. Instead I am a nice guy to the ranchers property I hunt on. Nothing like branding cattle in the spring for a little hunting access in the fall.

Private fishing clubs are here to stay whether we like it or not. Much like private country clubs, athletic faciltities, private golf courses...........

I dont belong to one, and probably wont unless the state tells me I won the lottery, and then it would probably still not be a concern.

[Nanook]

BAH! Let's hear the North Fork Nehalem
"cliff put in" story too. Probably just as "simple" BS.

[FM2]

******, I have put in on the N.Frk Nehalem from the OFC property, believe me I have launched from tougher places than that.

Ok, now pepper me with those cool graphics ! images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Grant,

Thanks for the heads up, and more clarification about your friend. I still remained reserved, but that's my opinion. I got your email telling everyone you're back. Thought we lost ya there for a bit. images/icons/cool.gif

[Nanook]

OK.

http://www.animfactory.com/animations/transportation/boats/uss_arizona_taking_bomb_hits_md_clr.gif

[FM2]

images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif You are the graphic KING images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif

[Deleted User]

Of the pro OFC posts thus far, I have not heard anything to change the truth about the fundamentals of the basis of their existance. This fundamental concept is what is at issue here, not how much money is charged by landowners or the OFC for memberships. And anyone can help put on fishing events for kids in a number of ways without becoming an exclusive fishing rights member of the OFC - one example being the $25 per year Assoc. of NW Steelheaders, who work toward fair equal public access to navigable rivers. Contrary to what was said above, the big picture for clubs such as OFC is to tie up public water for reduced numbers of special rights fishers; the other nice things they do is a distant secondary motive, and not even part of the issue here anyway. ...

BTW, small lakes and ponds that are within a private property are a different circumstance than public rivers with publicly funded fish swimming thru them. ...

As for the lowlifes that trash property, I agree with the frustration of property owners about that. I have said before that the state needs to provide more usable and regularly emptied trash cans near popular fishing areas, including near or on non-posted private property. And the fines for littering need to be way bigger! Again, write your state reps to help get this done. Also, if the same effort and money that goes into attempts to have exculsive fishing rights in public rivers were put into general river cleanup projects instead, like many of us ifishers have been doing in Oregon and Washington, more private property likely would become open for the public to share equally and fairly.

$0.02

Steve

[ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: RT ]

[FM2]

As all can see this is a controversial subject with both pro and con stances.

RT, I would suggest you contact Bruce Harpole yourself regarding the fundamental existence of this organization. The office #is 541.967.8301. I come from a different fundamental position than you do and with the diverse responses posted here I encourage anyone with a question that cannot be addressed here to contact Bruce as he runs the show. Again, the club cannot exist without private property on rivers so maybe part of the equation rests with the landowners. I don't think OFC is providing a service that would be construed as unethical or immoral, rather they see a need for people to enjoy the NW in a different setting. Is this right or wrong ? I don't have the answer as I believe that lies within the individual. I can say the club has constructive visions and will continue in that direction as long as landowners own river frontage. The good old days are gone I will admit but one thing I think we all can believe in is there is truly a beautiful rich resource in NW fishing.

[Deleted User]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"I don't think OFC is providing a service that would be construed as unethical or immoral, rather they see a need for people to enjoy the NW in a different setting. Is this right or wrong?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In reality they see a need for less people to enjoy the NW in a different (uncrowded) setting; i.e. - public river fishing. Is this right or wrong? Despite my personal intense dislike for overcrowded rivers, the way this is mostly being done (money in exchange for the opportunity to try keeping others out of the best holes obtainable), I think it is wrong. - Steve

[ 08-07-2001: Message edited by: RT ]

[Nanook]

One thing that appears to be fact here is a landowner who had enough. This result was a serious take away. I always carried (carry) an extra garbage bag and took away everything, most of it was not mine (Trash on any river).

All we used to have to do was ask permission to fish and promise to clean up and take care of the property. Rarely did we get a "no."

Apparently too many "low lifes" as RT perfectly describes them, ruined it in that case. Wake up if you still have a half-a..ed attitude in this area. images/icons/blush.gif

http://www.animfactory.com/animations/creatures/miscellaneous/forest_guy_relaxing_md_clr.gif

[boater]

i would like to see a list of the guides that belong to this club, i would boycott all of them, i am sure that since they fish these rivers they know all the holes that need landowner permission and even the ones that dont need permission and have had a hand in closing some of them to the public to benifit fishing for themselves, what other reason would they possibly have to join this club.

[Grant Scheele]

I am sorry Boater, but you are way out there.
The guides agree to be members as a way to possibly get more clients. They run trips for the club at a discounted rate. Pretty simple.

The only people that "have a hand" in shutting the access down to the public is the public itself. As a general rule the property owner has shut the site down to EVERYONE and the OFC has gotten it opened back up.

If you don't like the idea of a club like the OFC, fine, but please don't go making stuff up like they take away access or the guides are only in it so they can fish all the good stuff to themselves. Any guide that has to fish OFC property isn't worth the bait he is using and I guarantee you won't see it happen.

RT, I understand your point of view but I thought that we did address the access issue. These properties had zero public access before the OFC came along. That adds up to more access not less for the public. By the way, I missed you. images/icons/grin.gif

[boater]

O.Mykiss, guides fish out of boats, less people on the bank i do believe is better for them, as far as all these area`s being closed before this club came along, i realy think you should read the post that started this thread as i dont think you have yet.

[Deleted User]

Hi Grant. I missed you too images/icons/smile.gif . ...

As for this friendly debate about access, you may have missed more than just the first post. BOE posted that his Dad has had continued offers from the OFC to get exclusive rights to fish from his property - despite being told NO more than once. This property is right on the banks of one of the very best spring and fall chinook holes on the Trask. His Dad has historically allowed people who properly ask permission to fish and take proper care of his land to do so there free of charge. And driftboats are rightfully allowed to anchor up to fish there; whether they are members of the OFC or not. This true situation is very contrary to the picture that you are trying to paint of the OFC - to quote you, "These properties had zero public access before the OFC came along. That adds up to more access not less for the public". That doesn't add anything to public access! It adds up to purchased special rights access for the comparatively few OFC members! Unless we were mis-informed and are invited to fish on OFC leased land? I don't think so. ... I'm not saying that what you contend isn't there in some cases though. But it is obvious that the main objective is to tie up special fishing rights - NOT open up more access to the public, as you contend. In fact, when they come in and try to kick driftboaters out (as posted also) they are doing exactly the opposite of what you have claimed. Grant, are you a member of the OFC? images/icons/wink.gif

[ 08-07-2001: Message edited by: RT ]

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>ive been reading the website for the OFC real estate company and i hope others do to, the main goal of it is to lease as much property as possible and move into washington and do the same, guides belong to it also along with regular folk. so long public fishing on private land with the owners permission, hello game dept. access sites.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The land is the landowner's, and is his to do as he wishes, but also hears it from the community. If this organization even attempts this in the state of WA, I have and will gain more support to stop organizations like this.

Granted, it keeps the people fishing these spots in check, but the $$$ does not justify the means. If it's public land, then it should stay public land..period. images/icons/mad.gif I have no problems with anyone purchasing fishing rights to a piece of property, but for that land to be open to the public one day, and then a private organization moves in...then it becomes bad business, especially for those that only fish every so often.

I may comment on this after I take care of other tasks, and do some more investigating. Just when I thought "wow, what a non-confrontational Monday...." images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[Sean]

Is the OFC a non profit corporation? Correct me if I am wrong, but I dont think so. If they are not, then this brainchild was hatched to do one thing: privatize popular areas and generate revenues & profits by providing access. Anyone that thinks they were out to do anything other than that probably thinks that movies are made just to "entertain"... It's the money, ladies and gentlemen. Greenbacks & greed.

[ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: Sean ]

[Grant Scheele]

There seems to be a lot of heresay as to why and how the OFC takes it property and listening to most of you they sounded like a pretty shady group so I took the liberty of calling the owner of the club as I happen to know him.

Bruces philosophy is to make more fishing access, not less. Bruce says that he will not take over a currently in use piece of property being used by the general public, free or pay.

Why are land owners doing this? He has had serveral land owners call and ask him if he would like to take over their pay for fish property and he always turns them down. He figures his clients can fish it now why make it exclusive. The land owners call because they are being mistreated by the public and want to share what they have without being stepped on. In fact most don't require much more than a membership for the lease price. So it's not about money.

I asked him directly about the Trask property and he told me that the owner called him after he had closed it down to the public. The owner was frustrated that he had such a special piece of property that he couldn't share because of the problems of litter and garbage left behind and the locals refused to pay the 50 cents. He said out of towners alwasy paid.

Bruce is a simple guy. I also happen to be his banker so I can tell you he is not getting rich doing this. In fact he made more money being a mortgage broker. He actually is a lot more like you and me and just loves having a job that keeps him doing fishing related things.

A three year membership costs about as much as a half a pack a cigarettes a day.($1.16) That sound pretty affordable to me so it's not a bunch of rich snobs in the group.

[Bait O' Eggs]

I am not trying to take sides on this issues, but wanted to make a clarification.

RT - I know my dad has been approached a couple times for OFC membership. It has been a while to my knowledge since he has been approached. Technically his property is posted and that would meet the requirements of what O'mykiss describes as the property OFC targets. It is closed to the public for all the reasons you could imagine the idiots do to private property. I dont know if he has been approached in quite while, but he was pretty clear he was not interested in joining. As part of the membership deal he was offered I seem to remember him telling me he would become a member and that would allow him access to other fishing property. Not a bad deal if you have a crummy piece of water and want access to better fishing holes.

[fishbait]

Jean,
Well for a new member you sure stirred things up with your post. I also feel frustration an the loss of some prime fishing access, but the property owners have their rights. By the way, I am a long lost fishing buddie of yours and have helped you land many nice fall fish at the pig pen hole in years past. Betcha cant guess who........... It would be nice to talk to you after all these years.....

[thedude]

Hey can someone post the url for there site please that would be www.??????? (http://www.???????)
I don't want to join just check it out.

Thanks

[birdhunter]

The Dude abides. images/icons/wink.gif images/icons/grin.gif

http://www.ofc.org

[jcarufo]

Steve,
Are you still living in Hillsboro? Long, long time. We did kill em at the ole Pig Pen didn't we? I never dreamed that my post would creat such a dialog, but it's great! This board is great! The people on the board are sincere in their beliefs and seem open and accomodating to everyone expressing their opinions. This board has been a great find for me.
Hey, let's go fishing! Barb and I are going to Vancouver Island (Nootka Sound) the 15th for a week or so to fish Halibut and Chinook, but have the last week of the month off(we were going to stay and fish chinook in Port Alberni, but the DFO shut it off). I have every wed through Sat. night off if that fits your schedule. Drop me a e-mail at jcarufo@pacifier.com and we'll set somthing up. By the way I mentioned you to Barb as we went past Svenson on our way home from Astoria last Thursday. Small World. Have a Great Day! Tight Lines.
Jean