Need prayers

[Dave Smith]

This is so tough and so personal- but I don't know who to talk to about this. My faith is hanging by a thread. I am more or less hiding this fact from my family and friends- it's difficult, it's unexpected, it's unexplainable, it's embarrassing, and it could have concequences greater than any earthly concequences could ever have. Is it possible for someone to pray for another's faith to "return"? If so, please do it. My entire life I have rested on the idea that even scientists were in awe and totally baffled by the existence of life. Now I've done way too much reading and find out that the huge majority of basically the smartest people on the planet- scientists- are at almost complete ease about the assurance of a completely material and accidental explanation of life. I have dove into the study of Darwinian evolution and have come to the conclusion that it's basically a religion- it's completely impossible- even it it were possible to "start", there hasn't been NEARLY enough time to get to the multitude of species we have today. There are all sorts of inexplicable things in the fossil record that suggest the creation of a vast number of species more or less all at once, the evidence for human ancestors is incredibly weak- I could on and on, yet that tiny sliver of doubt manifests itself when I go to pray- it feels like I'm the biggest idiot in the world- like I'm talking to a pillow. HELP- your my last resort. Thank you- anyone who reads this or says a prayer for me. Dave

[wishin]

I want to let you know right away that I understand what you are saying and I will be thinking and praying about you this afternoon. Faith is a tough one. How do I REALLY know that God exists? I mean REALLY know. Keep praying Dave, and leave your heart open to God's nudge that He is there.

[CATCH AND EAT]

First of all Dave let me congradulate you on being perfectly normal.:cheers: Secondly Everyone admit it or not has had thoughts like the ones you are experiencing right now. I have:o. What a wonderful thing this human mind of our. Ever curious, ever learning and forming opinions, gathering facts and fictions.

I think to question our origins is healthy. I am always interested in different theories of creation and evolution. Obvoiusly Darwin did too and he set out to discover the changes that nature goes through and how it adapts to climate changes or environmental changes. His original theory was that species may change within themselves but they do not become other animals such as what his understudies have proclaimed as gospel. So you are right, Darwinism has become a sort of religion so to speak just as the latest and greatest new religion to come around, Global WArming.

Look through it all it really matters not how we as humans came to be right. We are the only species with a soul. We share this with no other animal on earth. Does not matter if we evolved from goo, do or whatever. What we are now is special and in the image of God. He tells us this "we are created in his image" in his word. I mean we can question evolutionists all day long as to where we came from and it comes down to this. Where did the ooze or genetic material come from? It all comes back to a devine creator. Someone had to make it or create it. Theories in reality mean nothing.

It's kind of like arguing how the Lord will end the world as we know it. There are so many theories from each religion it is mind boggling. You know what really matters to me Dave? Here it is: That I am saved by the Blood of Christ whom died for my sins. By His Grace only I am given the Ultimate gift of Salvation and I know that when my time passes here my reward of eternal life with Him shall be granted. That is what matters to me. All the other stuff is information true or false. Shoot you can go through the Bible and find contradictery passages if you want to and let your faith be questioned by that. I say, faith in God, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, FAith in the Holy Spirit is what matters in this life we lead.

Keep the Faith!

Sorry I don't have my Bible here to pull scripture out of for you but I am sure others here can begin quoting more than I have time to pull up. Hang in there bro and know that I am praying for you and with ya. You know, never be afraid to talk with your pastor or clergy from whatever background you come from. They have heard this same story and argument many times over and I am sure they can help you through.

Bernie

So you say "okay

[Deeman]

Dave, I not sure that I am qualified to, or cogent enough to attempt to answer your question, but I will try. We are not that different you and I, I went through a loss of faith that lasted for 25 years. The final straw for me was a hard study of the resurection. I simply can not and could not explain it away. From that point I began to recover my faith and it is and will be an on going process, the building of faith. Paul says that "faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God" It is in this process that is your starting point. Get into the word. In the Old Testament Faith is translated from two Hebrew words one of which means "to run to the shelter of a rock" or "run to a mother birds wings for shelter". The second is "to lean your weight on a staff" In the new testament the word for faith is greek "Pisteo" (peestayo). all three of these words involve action. Modern christianity has, I believe reduced the word faith to nothing more than a feeling or belief. We say "I dont feel like I have faith" or other things like it. That is false attitude. As a definition Faith is "Action based on Belief sustained by Confidence (ABCs of Faith). In practice Faith is grabbing ahold of a promise of God and saying "I'm going to hold onto this in my fist until you do it or until I am in Heaven and you tell me why not" Faith is a decision not a feeling, its an action not an emotion. We (myself included) tend to say "if God would just change my circumstance then...." God would say "No have faith then things will change". Psalm 37 v5 says "Commit (action)thyself to the Lord, trust in him and he shall bring it to pass" You should strike everything after the word "and". In the original Hebrew it says simply "and the Lord worketh." Trust or Faith first (action) and THEN the Lord works. Go to Mathew ch9v22 the woman who first fought through the crowd with faith and Jesus said "Your Faith (action) has healed you". Hebrews 11, the Faith Hall of Fame. Take some time to cross reference those men and see in every case Faith(action) then results. Gideon in the wine press hears "GO" but replies "what about", "what if", "wherefore", "who me?" God says GO and by Faith (ABC) Gideon goes and gets his results later. Abram hears "Lift up thine eyes (change your attitude)from THE PLACE YOU ARE and ARISE (GO) and walk. In every one of those Heros of Faith lives it is the same, Faith (action) then results. There is a difference in Faith and belief. Belief looks at an airplane at the end of the runway and says "I know the work that went into the design of that thing, I saw it land, so I belive it will take off and fly again. Faith climbs the stairs, sits down, buckles up, and waits for the in flight movie.
Dave, Faith is ACTION based on BELIEF, sustained by CONFIDENCE. Faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of God. We are all at times like the man in Mark 9 v24 who says to Jesus "I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief". Psalm 5, and 40, and 130 written by David at a time when he was living in a cave, hiding and fearing for his life. Alone and afraid the annointed King of Israel cried out to the Lord and Praised him and the Lord listened and answered David. He will for you as well. Get into the Word of God. God bless you Dave you are in my prayers tonight. Don

[DAB]

Dave
I sent you a PM.

Deeman--- is giving you sound advise.
DAB

[Ryan Pultz]

I will be praying for you brother God bless rp

[letsfish]

Have struggled with the whole creation thing and found one thing I could "hang my hat on" through it all- regardless of what take a person takes on the creation-evolution angle GOD IS BEHIND CREATION. His creation speaks to us of His greatness. We can praise him for this beauty and gift! Even if we don't understand the complexity of it. We can praise and thank Him for his faithfulness to us and His people, just as the psalmists did, this encouraged the faithfulness of the people.
Tell God of your problems, focus on Him, let Him make it clear.

[Grantspastor]

I'll pray for you Dave. My only advice would be to take your eyes off the the baffling questions and fix them on Jesus. (Heb 12) It will help

[Dave Smith]

Thank you folks! Wow, I'm overwhelmed- I feel like I have a whole army behind me!- an army I didn't even know I had. I may still need to lean on you all for a while- I'm not out of the hot water just yet, but I hadn't really embraced the idea of getting off "the couch" and doing something about it, rather than "waiting for something to happen"- he he. Thanks for the great advice and encouragment and prayers. Catch and Eat: Thank you. Dave

[PapaHog]

The way I see it is no matter how we came to being we are in the image of God and his likeness. That means body soul and spirit. None other can say that.

What does it matter what the aforementioned goo came from. God created it all.

:pray:I will pray for you and me both as I suffer the same doubts and questions all the time. Where do you think these doubts and questions come from. Well it for sure is not God.

PS some great replies above. Wow.:applause:

[Chad S.]

Praying for you bro!!!

[D-tangle]

Brother Dave, you are not alone. I have studied origins and faith for years. The Scripture alone has truth. If God has indeed opened your eyes to His truth, you belong in His light. What you have believed, continue in, brother.
Doubts are a part of truth where your understanding is not yet complete. No one has every answer for every question, so then you lean on faith that God knows. We are praying for you that your faith would not fail. What God has begun, He will finish.

Blessings. Doug

[HOOKUP]

Does evolution deny the existence of God?

No. There is no reason to believe that God was not a guiding force behind evolution. While it does contradict some specific interpretations of God, especially ones requiring a literal interpretation of Genesis 1, few people have this narrow of a view of God. There are many people who believe in the existence of God and in evolution. Common descent then describes the process used by God. Until the discovery of a test to separate chance and God this interpretation is a valid one within evolution

For what its worth I am firm believer that we did not not evolve without help from a designer. God's plan is not understood by us people and I think instead of saying no one is home, we need to realize he is a mighty god who scientists will never figure out his ways.

One common theme human civilizations have is the belief in an afterlife. Most all humans believe this life is the stepping stone to spiritual life...I think we are on to something!




Remember Jesus Christ did walk the earth, became the sacrificial lamb for mankind and decended to heaven. He was really here a short 2000 years ago.

I really think people take the God out of science when they dont give him credit for the system we have in place, as if everything was an accident.

I do BELIEVE the dinosauers roamed the earth before man, so we could put gas in our cars today. Its a big complicated system that I believe has God's fingerprints all over it. God could have used evolutuion to get us where we are today...God is so massive and complex we really wont understand him until we leave this world...

[SilverFly]

Now I've done way too much reading and find out that the huge majority of basically the smartest people on the planet- scientists- are at almost complete ease about the assurance of a completely material and accidental explanation of life.

And yet roughly half of all scientists believe in God (as did Darwin). I'll probably catch heat for this but I fail to see the big hangup with evolution "vs" the Bible.

To me the theologically relevant questions pertaining to creation science are those about the actual origin of the universe. Think about it, we exist in a universe where the laws of nature (laws of GOD, - really) allow life as we know it to exist regardless of how it came about. That to me is the real miracle, and what science has to say about the origins of the Universe make it difficult for me to believe a creator was not involved.

A noted astrophysist, Sir Martin Rees, wrote a paper in 2001 titled "Just Six Numbers". In it he explains that the Universe is almost too perfectly set up for life to exist. If you read his paper you are left with two options as to explain this nearly impossible situation:

Option one, we just "happen" to live in one Universe out of an infinite number of Universes where life as we know it is possible.

Or option two, those numbers aren't ideally calibrated for life by "accident", - in other words they are what they are by DESIGN.


Our whole Universe is governed by just six numbers, set at the time of the Big Bang. Alter any one of them at your peril, for stars, planets and humans would then not exist.


http://www.firstscience.com/site/articles/rees.asp

You guys go ahead and worry about "Darwin vs the Bible". Personally, I think there is a divine elegance to evolution and the structure of DNA, -even if it doesn't fit neatly with a strictly literal interpretation of Genesis. But really that argument has nothing to do with how everything came about in the first place. If I'm wrong hopefully God will forgive me because I would love have Him tell me how he really did it!

Flame away!

BTW, prayers said :angel1:.

[Dullhook]

Hello Dave!

I would respectively like to add my personal feelings to this thread. This will involve expressing my beliefs as a Christian.

Q. As a follower of Jesus Christ, is it important what I believe concerning creation and Darwinism?
A. Not only is it important, it is absolutely essential.
Q. What about the Bible being the inerrant word of God?
A. Same answer, as they are interconnected.

Lets begin with the Bible. Much of my faith is anchored by knowing that the Holy Bible is the true, divine word of God. The Bible is not only God's instruction to His children on how to live their lives, but it also reveals from God, the true history of the creation of the universe, man, and all that exists. In the Bible God reveals Himself to us, as well as His purposes for us. If we as Christians don't accept the Bible as inerrant, upon what do we base our faith?

Scientists weren't here when the universe was formed and man was created, but God was! Whose word do you choose to believe? I like Charles Spurgeon's definition of creation science: "The method by which man tries to conceal his ignorance." So true. Perhaps best that we as lowly humans look at science through a Biblical lens.

Lets take a look at what our Creator tells us in His Word:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and earth"

Genesis 126-27......"Then God said, Let US (revelation of the Trinity) make man in our image, according to our likeness, let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over the earth and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. So God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

Genesis 1:31........"Then God saw every thing that He made, and indeed it was very good..."

AMEN!

Well, there it is my friend. God's revelation of creation. Penned my man through the direction of God's Holy Spirit. I don't see anything there about living cells crawling out of some green pre-mordial slime. Nothing about lizards turning into monkeys....then monkeys turning into men! Darwinism is nothing more than a cruel hoax. It is an unsubstantiated theory which tries to explain creation leaving out God. The universe and man are masterpieces of precision that could not have come about by mere "chance". They can only be explained by God's intelligent design and not natural selection.

If anyone as a Christian is going to accept Darwinism, then they must also accept these inescapable conclusions:

1. There is no evidence for God.
2. There is no life after death.
3. There is no absolute foundation for right and wrong.
4. there is no ultimate meaning for life.

God created man in His image, not in the image of animals, for a purpose. We were created in His likeness to become members of His family and to have personal relationships with Him, here on earth, and eternally in His heavenly kingdom. I would like to close with this statement which sums everything up quite neatly. I'm not sure who wrote it but it's very well stated:

"Could man create a religion with no god? The widespread acceptance of Darwinism shows that we've done exactly that. The Bible teaches us that God created man. Darwinism teaches us that man created God."

Blessings.......Dullhook.

[Ryan Pultz]

there is some great stuff here! rp

[SilverFly]

Dullhook,

I respect your conviction and I'm sure your knowledge of scripture far exceeds mine. You may be correct that Darwinism is in fact a hoax and the work of the enemy to erode faith of Christians, - just as has happened with Dave.

My point is that whether life came about by evolution or popped into being by the word of God, - it still came about after the Universe itself was created. It is clear in Genesis that "the Heavens and the Earth" came before any mention of life. Therefore life is the direct result (or handiwork) of whatever caused the Universe to come into being in the first place. So if you believe as I that the Universe came into being sheerly by the Word of God, then evolution itself is, by definition, part of creation, - and the whole "Darwin vs Jesus" argument is really just interpreting details of a history lesson.

I respect the desire to protect a true faith by sticking to a literal approach to scripture. My problem with scripture being perfect and "inerrant" as the Word of God is that if that was the case, we wouldn't have umpteen zillion denominations (interpretations) in the Christian faith. Unless of course, the very perfection of His Word is to make us think, discuss, and even argue about such topics, - just as we are doing now.

And as far I know, the only things essential to being a Christian are believing Jesus was the Son of God, that He died to save us from our sins, AND we accept Him into our hearts as our Savior, - PERIOD.

We are ALL sinners, no matter how hard we try to be "good". If believing in evolution is a sin because I have been mislead by the enemy, then it should be forgiven just as any other sin (which I have plenty). I sure hope I am right about that, otherwise I will probably burn along with Dave if you are correct about those who believe in evolution. Personally, I think it is far more important to view the Bible as a guide for how we treat others in life, - rather than a textbook on natural history.

And just a final thought, - maybe if we didn't make "Darwinism vs Jesus" such an absolutist argument, - it would be perceived as the threat to Christianity that is taken by some. And perhaps then it wouldn't spark doubt in so many as it has done with Dave. Doubt is a tool of the enemy, - just as fear is.

Besides, whoever is right, I'm pretty sure Christ will forgive those who failed Natural History 101.

[flyfisherwoman923]

The fact that you want prayers to help you regain your faith is awesome. I will pray for you and I completely believe that there is a God and he has created me and saved me in more than one way. I have faced many horrible events in my life and can face each and every day with a smile on my face and a very happy outlook. Would love to chat with you if you wish, pedsnurse4u@gmail.com Prayers, ElizabethAnne : )

[Dullhook]

And as far I know, the only things essential to being a Christian are believing Jesus was the Son of God, that He died to save us from our sins, AND we accept Him into our hearts as our Savior, - PERIOD.


We are certainly in agreement about this, Silverfly! :applause:

Lets put Darwinism aside for now and go back to Jesus and the Bible. Christianity says that the Bible is inspired of God. Although He used human agents to pen His Word, it was His initiative. Just as He was present in Jesus to give us the living Word, He is also present in the Holy Bible to give us the written Word.

Remember Silverfly, When Jesus...God incarnated...but with all the human weakness and fleshly desires that we have, went into the wilderness to fast and pray for 40 days? He was tempted by Satan at His weakest point on three occasions. Three time He used scripture to rebuke the enemy. Matthew: Chapter 4.

Jesus' life, miracles, and atonement upon the cross are revealed to us in the Scriptures. How else would we have known of this except by the eyewitness accounts of His Disciples through the Holy Spirit? If we accept this, than we must also accept God's discription of creation. Would part of the Bible be true and another part not? It's all or nothing, my friend! God is quite clear about the creation of man.

It's also important to note that the account of creation held no problems for Jesus. He used it as a scriptural basis for His doctrine on marriage. Matthew 19:4-5.........." Have ye not read that He that made them at the beginning made them male and female and said, for this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they twain shall be one flesh."

Compare this with Genesis 1 26:27...So God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

Jesus is God and the Creator of man, the universe, and all that exists. If we are to accept the accounts of Jesus in the New Testament, how can we not accept God's account of creation? It's all the same, and all the Truth, my friend. :flowered:

[samiam]

Thanks, Dave, for talking about it with all of us. Simply reading everyone's thoughts here has been a blessing to me! I'll remember you in my prayers, brother. I heard a sermon the other day by Alistair Begg on the radio, and he spoke about the responsibilities we have as followers of Christ. He used the instance of Cain and Abel, where Cain sarcastically asked God "am I my brother's keeper?" And the answer is yes, I am my brother's keeper. As the body of Christ we have an obligation and a great interest in each other's spiritual welfare. When I'm feeling weak, down, stressed, whatever, I have learned to surround myself with more of God's word, read the Bible, and also tune out the worldly influence and tune into sermons on the radio and online, faith-based music, etc. Oneplace. com is sure an awesome resource to get sermons. I like Greg Laurie, Alistair Begg, James Macdonald, Dr. J Vernon Mcgee, and the list goes on. Lastly, I know if i stared at the "world" (books, media, evolutionary theory, whatever) i'd begin to become mystified and interested in that. Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death". The only right way, is God's way.

[SWest Fisherman]

This is so tough and so personal- but I don't know who to talk to about this. My faith is hanging by a thread. I am more or less hiding this fact from my family and friends- it's difficult, it's unexpected, it's unexplainable, it's embarrassing, and it could have concequences greater than any earthly concequences could ever have. Is it possible for someone to pray for another's faith to "return"? If so, please do it. My entire life I have rested on the idea that even scientists were in awe and totally baffled by the existence of life. Now I've done way too much reading and find out that the huge majority of basically the smartest people on the planet- scientists- are at almost complete ease about the assurance of a completely material and accidental explanation of life. I have dove into the study of Darwinian evolution and have come to the conclusion that it's basically a religion- it's completely impossible- even it it were possible to "start", there hasn't been NEARLY enough time to get to the multitude of species we have today. There are all sorts of inexplicable things in the fossil record that suggest the creation of a vast number of species more or less all at once, the evidence for human ancestors is incredibly weak- I could on and on, yet that tiny sliver of doubt manifests itself when I go to pray- it feels like I'm the biggest idiot in the world- like I'm talking to a pillow. HELP- your my last resort. Thank you- anyone who reads this or says a prayer for me. Dave

I too suffered from lack of faith. I spent years reading great scientist and their beliefs. It caused me to question my core beliefs in God and his word. I spent many years arguing with myself and God over these same issues.

I finally came to these conclusions: 1) The great men of science and letters cannot even agree amongst themselves about the origins of life. 2) Their arguments are complex and convoluted. 3) They use language and word structure that confuses the laymen and causes great doubt in their minds. 4) They are arrogant and proud. 5) And they have contempt for the average person that has no academic or scientific attainments.

By contrast: 1) The bible was written by common men over a great period of time. It's theme is consistent throughout about God's love for man and gives an incredibly accurate historical record of this. 2) The Bible theme is simple, God's love for us and his wanting to have a personal loving relationship with us. 3) The bible is presented in a simple chronological manner with "true" stories that illustrates the human condition (warts and all). 4) Jesus represents the absolute standard in grace and humility. 5) God in all of his omnipotence and power reached down to all of us through Jesus so that "HE" could have a personal relationship with even the lowest and most unqualified sinner that is alive today.

I have also read the other side of the debate by the scientist that believe in the biblical account of creation. They have some very credible arguments for the biblical creation model. I suggest that you might read some of their writings and see if their views makes more sense to you. You can start with the Institute for Creation Research. http://www.icr.org

I pray for God's wisdom and blessing for your life and your family

Jim

[Dave Smith]

I finally came to these conclusions. 1) The great men of science and letters cannot even agree amongst themselves about the origins of life. 2) Their arguments are complex and convoluted. 3) They use language and word structure that confuses the laymen and causes great doubt in their minds. 4) They are arrogant and proud. 5) And they have conceit for the average person that has no academic or scientific attainments
Jim

This is so true. Is there any other area of science in which conclusions are assumed and questioning the thesis is unthinkable?? I hope not. I thank you all so much for all the great advice and any thoughts and prayers you give my situation- thankyou. What if God "planted" some semi-weak evidense for Darwinian evolution, so we would have to have faith? If there were no evidence that suggested the possibility of a molecule-to-man unguided explanation of life, who would EVER doubt theism? Maybe God wanted faith to be difficult? Dave

[jokester]

Dave,

As you've probably figured out, you're not alone on this one. The good news is, as Bernie has mentioned, you seem perfectly normal to me :grin: We've all questioned it at one point or another. Keep focused on him and his glory, and all the other things in this life will pale in comparison!

I'll be praying for you :pray: :angel:

-jokester

[fishnwHim]

I'll pray for you Dave. My only advice would be to take your eyes off the the baffling questions and fix them on Jesus. (Heb 12) It will help

A huge Amen !!! That is the least complicated and only answer that will work. My eyes have wandered from Him and I know that it is all I need as well, thanks for the reminder. I am a simple man that simply Loves Jesus !!

Dave

[rimrock]

The struggle people have from my experience is too often Christians take the Bible to be about humanity or a how to book, which makes man the focus of the Bible. Whereas correctly understood the point of the Bible is really a book about God for the sole purpose of revealing His character and His nature to us. It may sound like an almost trite point but just that alone fundamentally changes how one views all that is within the Bible.

God’s character and nature is what is always on trail, which is the crux of the Creation vs. Evolution debate. The method isn’t the point at all it’s a distraction which gets our focus off of Jesus which will always erode faith. The correct question isn’t about which model is correct, but which God?

Is Jesus the “god” of the survival of the fittest, with only the strong surviving? Is that what Jesus demonstrated in His earthy ministry? Or is Jesus the God of a good Creation which humanity rejected but which He knew was worth saving because He created it and still deeply desires to share His life with it? To restore it back to what is was before to a place without pain, suffering or death. Paradise lost by man will be paradise restored by God.

Don’t focus on the models so much, but on God’s very nature and His character, that will always give you the answer.

[Dullhook]

Thanks Dave for this post, which allowed many of us the opportunity to share our personal interpretations of Creation as Brothers in Christ! Lots of good stuff here. Any time God is the center of attention in any discussion it can only glorify Him in the end. We know that He's smiling from above.

That which binds all of us together and is the common thread throughout this post, is the love of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!!!

Thank you Father God for the precious gift of your Beloved Son! :hearton::hearton::hearton:

[CATCH AND EAT]

Dave, been thinking about you and wondering how you are getting along. I pray that all is well.

[Dave Smith]

Well thanks, I appreciate all the thoughts. I guess things are going well- I have my good days and bad days. I stopped at a garage sale because my wife has this molecule of DNA that triggers a gland to push the break pedal whenever we are within sight of a garage sale, even if we're on our way to a funeral. I was milling around, trying not to focus on the one thing that every garage sale has way too much of which ofcourse is baby clothes, and this book just popped up at me. "The Creator and the Cosmos" by Hugh Ross. I have started reading it and so far have found out that Hugh Ross is pretty much a stud. I have read some of Lee Stroebel and found out that he should be a sleep therapist because his writing cures insomnia pretty much instantly. I kind of felt like it was God saying " here, read this, I'm "revealing it" to you, don't make me smack you on the head with it".
On a more argumentive note, I came to the conclusion quite a while back that if Darwinian evolution were 100% true, I would have zero faith that there is a God. In other words, based on everything I have carefully studied, I could never believe on "both". My point of stating that is, if your wishes for me are to have restored faith, maybe it's not the best idea to sell the idea that God guided evolution. Instead, does anyone have a story of witnessing a person speaking in tongues or maybe has talked to someone that had a credible out-of-body experience? or seen some kind of miracle? As you can see, I am looking for something slightly tangible, just looking at a beautiful sunset and declaring that's proof of God isn't working for me. Thank you all for the kind and thoughful help. Dave

[Ryan Pultz]

hey Dave still praying for ya brother God bless rp

[Got One!]

DNA is everywhere, DNA is in plants, fish, Birds, mammals, Men. If Darwin handed you an apple would you consider it your distant relative? It has DNA, the same DNA acids all DNA has. If Darwin handed you a Tree, is that your brother, as it too has DNA. Everything in the universe we can see, smell, taste, has DNA. Can you turn your apple into a bird? No... Can you Turn a Fish into an Ape?...probably not. Can you turn your Ape into a Man, once again, no.

Obviously there are different species that have changed over millions of years to survive, at those locations the older species are extinct. If you are concerned that we were once apes, then why are apes still here? There are several types of dogs, but they are all dogs..... There are several species of fish, but they are all fish, there are many species of monkeys, but they are all monkeys, there are many species of Apes, Chimps, Great, Orangatngs all of which are apes, and not to call Humans Species, but there are, Asian, African, White, Indian, etc, but they are all humans.

Look deep into the cells of life forms and they are much the same...they do have the same creator after all, God.

As you must know some have special gifts from God, and some have come back from deaths door and have seem the other side. There is nothing wrong with science, just as there is nothing wrong with faith.

You are choosing faith as you choose to consider Darwin's opinion as there is no proof from Ape to Man, just as there is no proof of Fish to Ape, or Worm to Fish. If you allow the faith of God into your heart, you can actually feel it. If you look all around you you can see it.

Your enemy would have you pick a mans opinion as your faith rather than Gods word. What hope for your future is there in the faith of Darwin.

Life without faith in God is a life without hope! BTW if it makes ya feel better My IQ is higher than Darwins, and you know where my faith is, and yes, I'd be happy to say a prayer for you.

[DTSportsman]

Dave,

I'm not familiar with the book your reading, but know this if its about the Lord, its because he is standing at your door (heart) and knocking, let him in. You obviously believe, or you wouldn't be questioning so much. Just go for it dig into the word get a good commentary on the Bible and have fun. PM me for recommendations. As far as speaking in tongues, the verse slips my mind, but speaking in tongues happens all the time, but for it to be from the Lord all who are present must be able to understand. We all have questions, and most i'm now content waiting until I get to Heaven to find out all the truths, and why things happend the way they did. God has a plan for you, you just have to let him lead you in that plan.

Passage Romans 3:23-28:


23for all (A (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Romans+3%3A23-28&version1=49#cen-NASB-28015A))have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24being justified as a gift (B (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Romans+3%3A23-28&version1=49#cen-NASB-28016B))by His grace through (C (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Romans+3%3A23-28&version1=49#cen-NASB-28016C))the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25whom God displayed publicly as (D (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Romans+3%3A23-28&version1=49#cen-NASB-28017D))a propitiation (E (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Romans+3%3A23-28&version1=49#cen-NASB-28017E))in His blood through faith This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the (F (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Romans+3%3A23-28&version1=49#cen-NASB-28017F))forbearance of God He (G (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Romans+3%3A23-28&version1=49#cen-NASB-28017G))passed over the sins previously committed;
26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27Where then is (H (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Romans+3%3A23-28&version1=49#cen-NASB-28019H))boasting? It is excluded By (I (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Romans+3%3A23-28&version1=49#cen-NASB-28019I))what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28For (J (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Romans+3%3A23-28&version1=49#cen-NASB-28020J))we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Daryn