Why so much hatred for those that have failed?

[Nalu]

I'm really searching for an answer.

I used to have hatred in my life for those that committed horrible crimes. I that that they should be strung up old west style. Eye for an Eye and all that. I think that through the years, my faith has changed my opinion from hatred to sorrow, pity....... I don't know, something else. I still believe that these people are bad, that they should be punished for their crimes, but I don't HATE them.

There certainly is now more a sadness about their actions. If some unspeakable crime was to befall my family, I certainly might end up hating the person who committed it, so maybe my feelings are just wishful thinking?

I guess I just can't reconcile how I could have hatred in my life, and also believe that I was true to my faith and to the Lord.

There are posts on the board now about **** Constance, and it is just a pile on. He's a bad dude, and he's a bad dude that people here know. But I've also known someone like him, and it's pretty apparent this guy is mentally messed up. He might be full of hatred, but why do we as good people have to hate him? Isn't there a better alternative?

Maybe I'm missing something. Am I supposed to be hating everything and everyone evil in the world?

[wishin]

Nalu,

Reminds me of the wise statement - "Hate the sin, not the sinner". In my opinion, you are not missing a thing. A lot of us would do well to contemplate your statement - "I guess I just can't reconcile how I could have hatred in my life, and also believe that I was true to my faith and to the Lord." Thanks for the reminder.

Mike

[CATCH AND EAT]

Mike, I hate what the guy did and how he turned out. I have no respect for him as an idividual for what he tried to have done. Although he may seem a worthless waste of skin to most of us in the eyes of God he is still redemable if he asks for forgiveness just like you or I.

Do I hate the guy? No, but I sure don't like him either. Nor am I required to condone his activities because that just will not happen.

Perhaps this guy will someday experience the Saul/Paul effect and prove all of us wrong but until then he must be punished for his actions. I think the post on the SD board is helpful to many of us here regarding this person and regarding the know your captain thread. Know whom you are dealing with.

Fortunatly I am not Mr. Constance judge or we would deal with him harshly. God will judge him, he will judge you and he will judge me and if any of us are at fault we will be dealt with for our transgressions.

As stated on the SD board I was not trying to disrespect you in any way. Merely disagree with you. I personally tire of folks like this that walk away from our penal system to continue to have a career in crime. I believe if this person walks, someone will die one way or another.

I had a person e-mail me awhile ago regarding the know your captain thread and who was safe and who was not. Mr. Constance was a person I mentioned to this guy and I am happy I did since Jen revieled he has been poking around here recently. I guess we just never know who is lurking on some of these sites. Makes ya stop and think.

[Nalu]

Bernie- You and I are good, no worries there. I didn't take anything negative from your post at all. Not in the least.

I agree totally with your idea of punishment, and feel that it is only just that someone that is out of line with our lines be dealt with accordingly.

Really, it's not so much that thread in particular as a lot of things I see more and more. That thread just sort of jumped out at me as an example. Maybe HATE is too much of a word, I don't know. It just seems that there is an overwhelming desire to point out the evil in others that pop up into our views

I just tire of the finger pointing, and the judgement over and over again. I'm certainly a flawed individual. It seems though on here we have a great community, but a very judgemental one. Perhaps just the nature of the beast, I suppose.

[Snapset]

Nalu,
this is one of the best posts I have read on here in a long time. Maybe one of the reasons this all seems so hateful is the nature of this form of communication. In order to make a thread interesting we might have to state things more forcefully or provocatively. Many of these threads seem to strive too hard to reach a logical conclusion(Like what I am writing right now), and this causes us to be judgmental prior to knowing context and facts.

I think you are on the right track.

[FM2]

Nalu,

Allot of people have come and gone in this forum. This is true for many other boards, not just ifish. We live in a world of disconnect in many ways, no longer is there the need for face-to-face meetings or even speaking with someone on the phone. We live in a virtual world and in the Northwest, where our weather keeps many of us indoors, this equates to a life lived through our computer screens instead of personal interaction. This has caused a "judgemental" mindset because many times we learn about someone or something through this medium and unfortunately as humans we feed on drama, not the mundane. Not everyone is an articulate writer or effective communicator so the tendency is to "judge" based on the words on a screen instead of what the true meaning the person is attempting to convey. I have been in this position over and over, meaning the intent and meaning of my posts have been totally taken out of context of what I was trying to say so people will tend to read in the wrong meaning instead of trying to filter through the true meaning. This is, to me, the biggest reason I rarely post anymore, good intentions turn out to be curse because I am not a book writer or don't express the meaning explicitly or politically correct. A good example of this just recently happened when I made an honest mistake and Pete came down on me rather harshly instead of seeking what truly happened. This only adds to division and not unity.

In relations to the word "hate", that is a word that has little meaning anymore, much like the opposite word "love". I try to stay away from words like that and give everyone the grace they need, especially during difficult times that we don't know anymore than what a post says and not all the details. I encourage everyone to memorize the fruits of the spirit in Galatians chapter 5, in nearly every circumstance one of these attributes will apply and help to bring understanding to the issue. This has helped me tremendously in becoming more like Jesus and less like "me".

Your concern is that of many so don't feel like you are alone by any means. Unfortunately we live in a time where values and morality don't have as much importance as they once did.

Blessings,
Keith

[FishinGrl22]

Nalu,

When I read your post, my heart went out to you. I used to have a deep hatred before I cam to know Christ, but as my walk with Christ progressed I could see God working in my life and could feel the changes he was making in me. I can not say that I think that those who commit crimes don't deserve their punishment... cause they do. But here's the thing... what makes me cry and my heart fill with sorrow is the fact that probably none of those people know the truth about JESUS CHRIST. We are to spread the word and be witness to the world, but a lot of us just don't do this at all. Matthew 5:44 says "But I tell you, Love your enemies and Pray for those who persecute you." THis is something that a lot of christians don't do. it doesn't have to be direct persecution... or anything like that to have to pray for them either. BUt it does say we are to LOVE our enemies. Yes that doesn't mean to love what they do or indulge with them on what they to, but to continually pray, care, and ask Christ to come into their lives so that they can be a part of the Body of Christ.

I will be praying for you. :D

[DAB]

Nalu,

Allot of people have come and gone in this forum. This is true for many other boards, not just ifish. We live in a world of disconnect in many ways, no longer is there the need for face-to-face meetings or even speaking with someone on the phone. We live in a virtual world and in the Northwest, where our weather keeps many of us indoors, this equates to a life lived through our computer screens instead of personal interaction. This has caused a "judgemental" mindset because many times we learn about someone or something through this medium and unfortunately as humans we feed on drama, not the mundane. Not everyone is an articulate writer or effective communicator so the tendency is to "judge" based on the words on a screen instead of what the true meaning the person is attempting to convey. I have been in this position over and over, meaning the intent and meaning of my posts have been totally taken out of context of what I was trying to say so people will tend to read in the wrong meaning instead of trying to filter through the true meaning. This is, to me, the biggest reason I rarely post anymore, good intentions turn out to be curse because I am not a book writer or don't express the meaning explicitly or politically correct. A good example of this just recently happened when I made an honest mistake and Pete came down on me rather harshly instead of seeking what truly happened. This only adds to division and not unity.

In relations to the word "hate", that is a word that has little meaning anymore, much like the opposite word "love". I try to stay away from words like that and give everyone the grace they need, especially during difficult times that we don't know anymore than what a post says and not all the details. I encourage everyone to memorize the fruits of the spirit in Galatians chapter 5, in nearly every circumstance one of these attributes will apply and help to bring understanding to the issue. This has helped me tremendously in becoming more like Jesus and less like "me".

Your concern is that of many so don't feel like you are alone by any means. Unfortunately we live in a time where values and morality don't have as much importance as they once did.

Blessings,
Keith


I am going to piggy back on FM2's post, cause I find I am in the same boat.
DAB

[FireCat]

I know that it is tough to baby sit grown ups. But many times this place is the only place people will connect with the Lord, I know some that use to post here because they are are now going to our midweek fellowship group.

[wishin]

(In response to a deleted post) "Pete can defend himself, but I want to say that I think he is an outstanding adminstrator asked to do the impossible. For every instance in which we might individually feel a little slighted, I would bet that Pete has headed off 14 quarrels that would make Ifish an ugly place. I am thankful for Pete, and his efforts to keep Ifish a family environment."
To bring the thread back to Nalu's original post. Read it. He is asking a rhetorical question to illustrate the disconnect that is evident in a couple of threads between Christian love and compassion, and the expression of hatred for a sinner. Nalu knows the answer and has expressed it quite clearly as a teaching moment. Again, thanks Nalu for pulling us back from the crowd throwing stones.

[FireCat]

I guess I am in a cloud who is being talked about here, nor do I care but all I can say is God does not Hate...he judges out of love and hates SIN. We on the other hand, as fallen sinners Judge out of Hate and LOVE sin!. Plus the fact that we must become aware of this possibility in all of us—the proclivity to offend others. With the mouth, tongue, and mind, it is necessary to exercise self-control and learn to be diplomatic and kind to others.
That is why Jesus warns, "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones" (v. 2). We should be especially careful not to offend babes in Christ—those who are new in the faith. Newly converted brethren expect to see proper conduct and self-control among the older brethren. They do not expect to see the same pattern of behavior they see in the world.
To see this is an offense indeed! But equally important is the ability to forgive those who offend us. This is why Jesus gave the following instruction. "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him" (Luke 17:3–4). While it is unlikely one would trespass against another seven times in a day, what Jesus is showing is the length we should be willing to go in order to forgive.
The disciples knew how difficult this was to do. Astoundingly they requested, "Increase our faith." Why would they request this? The answer: To put to practice the things Jesus instructed the disciples here requires complete faith in God's promises for the help needed to be able to do so. Also, it requires faith in the rewards Jesus promised to those who live up to the way of life He brought. Faith is confidence in the promises of God (Heb. 11:1, 6).
Lord Bless

[Nalu]

I can't quote verses from the bible. I'm certainly not a religious leader, and definitely not the prosletylzing type. I was born and raised in my church, believe I have a very true faith, and know as I get older that the deepness of my faith grows. From cradle to grave I will carry the same faith with me.

I suppose that the years of faith have finally started to have a truer meaning over the last several years. Not with a renewed vigor, but with a comprehension (albeit small indeed) of what the message of Jesus was. While I fail to live up to that message many time, I think I do understand it better now than ever.

Considering how much He suffered for us, it certainly seems trivial to feel a little down about how many people cast stones on the internet, doesn't it?

Thanks for the good words friends.

[Joe Schwab]

While Christ said to forgive, he also said to rebuke, then forgive. I don't see these messages about people who step over the edge as so much about hate for the person as hate for the act. If we don't hate the act then what are we? Condoners? Look at the abortion protesters. The pro abortion people point them and their acts out as lawless, cruel and inhumane. Are they?

We as Christians had better start speaking out against transgressors. Remaining silent is as bad as committing the act. yes, pray for the fallen. Forgive them if they ask, but never let them think they have our approval.

Christ would probably forgive Satan if he asked for it. However he certainly does not condone the acts of Satan.

[Nalu]

Capt- I'm certainly unsure where you would glean the idea that anyone is not rebuking the transgressor. Over and over and over again it is noted in both threads that the only just thing is a punishment that fits the crime. My point and question was a progression of what is necessary AFTER that.

This is the difficulty that I seem to face.....No matter how many times it is noted that the act is not condoned, there is still someone who seems to think that pity and sadness at the transgressor is some sort of allowance for the act. It is not. It seems the only thing that can be said is more outrage and disdain, anything less is taken as sympathy, which is not true.

As far as the pro-choice/pro-life protestors, it really doesn't matter what the belief. If you do something legally, then it's fine. You use violence to make your point, is wrong.

[bait dunker]

God is the one who forgives! i am not a hateful person, but i do believe there are things i just cant forgive. if you can, i admire that you must be stronger than i. child molestation for example is unforgivable in my book so much so that i think it should be a capitol offense.these people are truely EVIL and cannot be rehabilitated, but thats just my opinion.

[Nalu]

bait dunker- Again, perhaps it is this medium, but somehow I just can't get across my point. Never has the issue of forgiveness been brought up.

We know it is the way of the Lord, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

This is what I mean. From posing a question of what good is hatred it ends up being that you perhaps condone, and/or forgive the transgressor.

I give up.

[SilverFly]

I read a great quote once, - sorry don't remember the source but it goes something like this:

Hate is like taking a poison to get back at your enemy


I think you hit the nail on the head in that it comes down to judgement, - and I think all of us here know "whose" place that is.

:twocents:

[Dullhook]

It just seems that there is an overwhelming desire to point out the evil in others that pop up into our views


Very true, Nalu. Each and every one of us is guilty at one time or another of placing judgement upon others. We just can't seem to stop from seeking self-gratification by deluding ourselves into thinking that we're just a little bit better than the "other guy". Sometimes it's blatant and obvious and other times very subtle. It's all part of the human sin condition that we're born with.

What does God tell us about this? Scripture always trumps all other advice.

"Judge not, that you not be judged. For with the judgement you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?" Matthew 7:1-3

Pretty strong words from the One who created us! I've been trying to get that plank out of my own eye for years with only limited success. Father: continue to convict us of this sin so that we can better glorify your Name :pray:.

All of us are a load enough for Christ to carry without concerning ourselves with the sins of others.

Unfortunately we live in a time where values and morality don't have as much importance as they once did.


Amen!

[Jennie@ifish]

Hi Nalu,

Your question is a good one, and one that we need to keep reminding ourselves of, on a daily, multi times daily basis!

I am guilty of this over and over and over.

LOL.. I remember trying to learn to forgive my ex husband's new wife. The only way I could do it was to pray for her, and the only way I could pray for her was when I was taking a shower, washing my hair. I would scrub and scrub and yell, "DEAR GOD, .... PLEASE :bigshock: help xxxxx and take care of her... and...:bigshock: :laugh:

Anyhow, it is certainly not an easy task to forgive those that have hurt us.
It is probably our immediate response to do the "eye for an eye" thing, more easily than it is to love unconditionally.

That's why we are not Jesus and we are mere mortals. :) As humans, we are sinners, each and every one of us, over and over and over again. We fail!

But, you know what? I find that the only way to make good is to try, try try... to be more like Jesus every day... Ask yourself in every situation, before you respond/react "What would Jesus do?", and instead of being critical or questioning of your brothers and sisters on ifish, simply try to set an example of love and forgiveness.

It sure would be a better world to live in! If only we were perfect!

Man, wouldn't it blow others away if you posted your forgiveness and your kindness on that thread? Man! No one could argue with it!

If someone stepped in on that thread, and posted something kind and loving and forgiving? Wow. Shiver me timbers! That's the kind of thing that makes people say, "Wow! I want whatever he's having!" :laugh:

That's the kind of thing that really make people want to be more like Jesus, and on the way up, more like whoever might post something like that, that would turn people around!!!

Wheeeeeeee ha! I love that. I wish I could do that all the time, but... I fail. :( We all fail.

It's no secret you are probably talking about the thread on Angle This. Oh, the trouble and the time that fellow took us. But, I'm really kind of proud of us, at the same time. Both the ifishers and the mods! We didn't ridicule him publicly for so long, nor did we allow others to. It's our policy on ifish. I sure hope we didn't miss anything and allow it. But, then after the fact, we failed. We let her fly! All of that pent up frustration came out, in the end. We fail.

However, we DID have to watch that this fellow didn't lead other innocent people or Salty Dog-ettes astray. We felt he could endanger people's lives with unsafe ocean practices.

After he was banned, the mods spent countless hours trying to sift through false monikers as he led us on wild goose chases. This tends to cause bitterness and anxiety on our part. He wrote letters threatening me and ifish.

If I were more like Jesus it would roll off my back like water, but I'm afraid it DID indeed build up resentment in me, and if I posted something less than Christlike, please forgive me. I fail. I am human!

Your question, though is a good one, and one that led me back on track, so thank you for that. We need constant reminders to be more like Christ. All of us! Even those that don't buy the whole story can benefit from being more like Jesus. I don't know many people that don't think that Jesus was a cool dude. :laugh:

But I, Jennie Logsdon Martin have posted before that I indeed "buy the whole story" and so I feel that my example to others should be held to a higher standard. I apologize if I've ever posted anything less than loving and forgiving.

Man, what an awesome responsibility it is to carry... to try daily to be one of Christ's soldiers and to try to be more Christ like every day, in everything we do. We are sinners! We fail! I am a miserable example, but you know what? I can start over, every day, every minute if I have to, simply through asking for forgiveness, praying for strength and try, try, trying again. :) I love that!

It's called Grace, and it's an awesome thing! I can't believe the grace that our heavenly Father has and offers each of us.

You ask, Maybe I'm missing something. Am I supposed to be hating everything and everyone evil in the world?

Come on, you know better than that! Let's not look down our noses at each other. Let's instead, hold them up and help them to be better people. We are all guilty of this kind of thing at one time or another. :) It is a natural, normal thing to try to hurt back those that have hurt us. Not a good thing, but normal, nonetheless. Let's help people to get back on track through encouragement and love, rather than disdain.

Anyhow, I just wanted to thank you for bringing this up. It's really on my heart, now, and I will work harder this week to be more forgiving to others in every situation I encounter.

Thank you!
Jen

[Nalu]

Thanks Jen.

It seems to me that there is a pretty easy way to sum this up.....

Rhetorically speaking, what if the transgressor was YOUR child? Your son or daughter? How then would you feel?

My bet is just like parents do every day, you would feel sadness as you deliver punishment that is merited. It certainly is not uncommon for a parent to be more sad and hurt when their child fails then angry. But sadness and forgiveness does not mean the transgression can go unpunished, it's more so a sadness that a punishment MUST be delievered.

I know I struggle with this. I know that I have failed in so many ways.....to my family, to my friends, to strangers. Yet somehow, here I am. So fortunate, so blessed, and so unbelievably lucky to be able to have what I have, and able to try and do little things for others.

Happy Mothers Day Jen, and all other Mothers out there! Your children are thinking of you! And the lessons you have taught, and the punishments you have handed out with sadness have taught a lot of us lessons that resulted in becoming better people!

[FishinGrl22]

You know when you bring up our children and if our children did something wrong they would still have to be punished but it would hurt us to the core, I think of God automatically. See Even though He Loves us unconditionally, when we (christians and non-christians alike) do something wrong, that crime or sin will not go unpunished. And each time God does punish us, he cries for us. He hurts just the same. the biggest punishment is a life without God. Those that don't know Jesus Christ as their personal savior will be following in that path of death and destruction. And each time someone dies without knowing Jesus Christ, God weeps for them.

I don't know If I'm making since. Its early in the morning so my thoughts are still trying to work through in my head. but anyway. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Love,
Jan

[Joe Schwab]

Capt- I'm certainly unsure where you would glean the idea that anyone is not rebuking the transgressor. Over and over and over again it is noted in both threads that the only just thing is a punishment that fits the crime. My point and question was a progression of what is necessary AFTER that.

This is the difficulty that I seem to face.....No matter how many times it is noted that the act is not condoned, there is still someone who seems to think that pity and sadness at the transgressor is some sort of allowance for the act. It is not. It seems the only thing that can be said is more outrage and disdain, anything less is taken as sympathy, which is not true.

As far as the pro-choice/pro-life protestors, it really doesn't matter what the belief. If you do something legally, then it's fine. You use violence to make your point, is wrong.

Maybe I wasn't being clear on this. On a forum like this each person wants to get his feelings posted. To some that might look like piling on. No one wants to sit on the sideline and let others do the work be it condemning an act or rebuking the actor. Don't read too much into this. I have worked a lot with persons convicted and sentenced for every type of crime. Some are truly sorry they committed the crime. Others are sorry they got caught. Still others resent the system and live for the day they can get out and get even. Yes I feel sorry for them all. It's just that I hope some of them never see the light of day again.

If that is being un Christian, well I guess I'm the only one who has to answer for that and no one here can judge me for that.

[Jennie@ifish]

Yep, Capt, I agree with you and your thoughts.

It's kind of like a divorce. Some people say, "Can't you forgive?" And I say "Yes, certainly I can..." But, I'm not going to go back and date him! I have forgiven, but I'm not going to forget, and get myself involved in that kind of thing again!

We learn. We have to do things that cement that learning. Sometimes it's talking aout the mishap. That in a way, is what I see folks doing. Remembering, learning, moving on... never going back.

J

[FireCat]

How difficult it is to affirm Christ's teaching about forgiveness, let alone put it into practice. Sure it may sound reasonable that we forgive the human race in general for sins known and unknown, but how do you forgive your best friend for an act of betrayal? How do you forgive your own parents for psychological damage or even abuse inflicted upon you in the earliest years of childhood? How do your forgive your spouse for falling in love with someone else? How do your forgive your children for adopting a way of life that seems completely alien to all the values you have tried to teach? It's easy to forgive in general, but it's almost impossible to forgive a specific wrong that has brought you deep personal pain.
In some cases it seems impossible to forgive once, let alone 70 times 7 as Jesus required.

Yet forgiveness was at the very center of Christ's teaching. It was his principal concern at the very hour of his death. As he hung there bleeding on the cross, with pain as great or greater than any of us will ever experience, he said so directly of those who delighted in his own death: "Father, forgive them, they know not what they are doing.

But beloved We want to contain by force of arms the evil we find in those "terrorists;" we want to lock up the criminals, throw them in jail and throw away the key. And in this imperfect world, for the foreseeable future there may be a need to build some walls. Some forms of retributive justice may be necessary; some systems of mutual defense may be required to preserve order in the world. But we cannot heal the deep wounds within the human family by the force of law alone. We can place a hundred and fifty thousand troops in Iraq; we can place a police officer at every street corner in the land, but we cannot even begin to heal the wounds that afflict us all by force alone. Neither this nation's most powerful weapons, nor the most efficient police force in the world can begin to heal the wounds of the heart. But that is where the real work of healing must begin; and that is where forgiveness plays its part.

Just my 2 pesos worth

[D-tangle]

Yep, Capt, I agree with you and your thoughts.

It's kind of like a divorce. Some people say, "Can't you forgive?" And I say "Yes, certainly I can..." But, I'm not going to go back and date him! I have forgiven, but I'm not going to forget, and get myself involved in that kind of thing again!

We learn. We have to do things that cement that learning. Sometimes it's talking aout the mishap. That in a way, is what I see folks doing. Remembering, learning, moving on... never going back.

J

The way I understand faith:
Forgiveness and trust are two different things. "Be peaceful as doves, yet crafty as serpents". We are not to be naive of evil or trusting of those proven to be untrustworthy. I can forgive Mr. Constance, but trust is not going to happen without a track record. (Forgiveness allows me to walk as Jesus walked) Jesus would not have us to hate or judge, but he does want us to be mature in our faith and wisdom. Who is wise who continues to make the same mistake over again and again? Trusting someone who has a moral 'unrepentant' bent to sin in a particular area of life must be carefully tempered with wisdom. To trust someone with drugs who has a drug problem is foolish, but they can be forgiven. Just not enabled by us to continue to hurt themselves or others. I would not enable them to get drugs, so does this mean I hate them or I have judged them? No. I don't put myself over them morally, since I know I am a sinner, also, and a recipient of Jesus' grace.
If Mr. Constance has broken a law, I believe it is in his best interest to do the time and pay the fine. Wanting justice is no proof a person hates, either. Constance will have then made things at least legally right. Then, he has a chance to get right with God if he sees fit. He must hear God's word from someone, then. Who will be up to such a task to help a sinner without hating them? Someone who has recieved forgiveness.

I will pray for Mr. Constance.

Just my two cents.

[flapbreaker]

How difficult it is to affirm Christ's teaching about forgiveness, let alone put it into practice. Sure it may sound reasonable that we forgive the human race in general for sins known and unknown, but how do you forgive your best friend for an act of betrayal? How do you forgive your own parents for psychological damage or even abuse inflicted upon you in the earliest years of childhood? How do your forgive your spouse for falling in love with someone else? How do your forgive your children for adopting a way of life that seems completely alien to all the values you have tried to teach? It's easy to forgive in general, but it's almost impossible to forgive a specific wrong that has brought you deep personal pain.
In some cases it seems impossible to forgive once, let alone 70 times 7 as Jesus required.

Yet forgiveness was at the very center of Christ's teaching. It was his principal concern at the very hour of his death. As he hung there bleeding on the cross, with pain as great or greater than any of us will ever experience, he said so directly of those who delighted in his own death: "Father, forgive them, they know not what they are doing.

But beloved We want to contain by force of arms the evil we find in those "terrorists;" we want to lock up the criminals, throw them in jail and throw away the key. And in this imperfect world, for the foreseeable future there may be a need to build some walls. Some forms of retributive justice may be necessary; some systems of mutual defense may be required to preserve order in the world. But we cannot heal the deep wounds within the human family by the force of law alone. We can place a hundred and fifty thousand troops in Iraq; we can place a police officer at every street corner in the land, but we cannot even begin to heal the wounds that afflict us all by force alone. Neither this nation's most powerful weapons, nor the most efficient police force in the world can begin to heal the wounds of the heart. But that is where the real work of healing must begin; and that is where forgiveness plays its part.

Just my 2 pesos worth

Wow firecat. That's a pretty awesome post right there. Definately food for thought.


Now as far as Nalu's original thought provocing post. Could it be that with age, you start to realize that we are not too different from people that have done horrible things? People make mistakes, run with the wrong crowd, make poor choices but some can still be good people. I dunno, just thinking out loud.

[eddie haskel]

I think I'll generalize a bit, in responding to your direct question, as readily apparent, this format often takes a course all on its own :bigshock:

Questions oft times leaves a puzzlement, over the test of spiritual truth and authority. The words of the Master Teacher will bear emphasis, if we seek to find His will and truths. The final appeal is not to be made of the intellect, important as reasonableness is to our normal living; nor to the feelings, valuable as emotions is for our consciousness of God's presence. The real test is found in willing to do the Father's will. Let a man try the Gospel, and he will discover that it is true!

This is no mere glorification of ethical activity, but a hearty, intelligent responsiveness to challenge to live the truth that is from above....

All of us, will fall short. Make no mistake, nor allow your focus to shift from yourself, to elsewhere. If our desire to learn is motivated by any other circumstance(s) than to glorify and edify Him, then we are deluding ourselves, and yielding to the power of Satan.

It, questioning (why, how, who, etc....) life, via my eyes, is my constant battle with the devil. Also....it gives need to me to diligently seek the Truth, and all the ramifications, it will visit upon me, if honestly sought...

Seems that's bout a nickels worth, eh?