South Fork Clearwater Steelhead

[BigSkyHunter]

This post has gotten way too out of hand. It has turned a very noble fly fishing board into something that doesn't belong here. It is not fair for Idaho residents to make false assumptions and aquisitions about out of state fisherman. When you stereotype fly fisherman for flossing, using 5 yarn flies, and wearing orvis costumes when you don't know the first thing about them, the line is drawn there. Mojo and B-Run Steelie, I don't have to explain anything to you, and it by far is not worth my time because you obviousley have narrow minded opinions.

BSH

[Tillamook Born]

What a weekend. My bro lives in Missoula and he is still trying to break away from work and hit up that river.

TB

[MightyMo]

Great pics, the look on your face in the 6th pic says it all. Time to add that water to the list of "have-to's". Thanks for sharing!

[Siwash]

Wow, that looks like an awesome trip. I've driven over the SF once, but was off-season for steel. Only tried the mainstem below Orofino before.

One question... I notice the fish in some of the pics have intact adipose fins but kinda "mushed"-looking dorsals that I would have otherwise thought suggested a hatchery origin, while there are others that have the obvious hatchery (ad) clip. Is there maybe a tribal hatchery there that doesn't clip in addition to IDFG plants, or is it just a random coincidence w/ those shots? Just curious.

[BigSkyHunter]

One question... I notice the fish in some of the pics have intact adipose fins but kinda "mushed"-looking dorsals that I would have otherwise thought suggested a hatchery origin, while there are others that have the obvious hatchery (ad) clip. Is there maybe a tribal hatchery there that doesn't clip in addition to IDFG plants, or is it just a random coincidence w/ those shots? Just curious.

I am under the impression by word of mouth while fishing there and talking to the game warden who checked us everyday that the native (non clipped) fish belong to the Nez Perce tribe and the hatchery fish are those produced in state hatcheries. With that said there must be a tribal hatchery. I think that answers your question. That is all I know. There is estimated 30% "native" fish in the that river system.

[frankenfish]

It does not happen often, but I am speachless!

[jeffey]

There are a ton of unclipped hatchery fish in the Clearwater system from the Nez Perce tribal hatcheries. In fact, there are very few truly wild fish in the system and those are mostly in Lochsa and Selway rivers where steelhead fishing is closed. The SF can be a lot of fun though, nice fish.

[AndyK]

Great fish:bowdown: . Sounds like it was an exceptional trip!

Just think, all those fish swam up the Columbia, right past Portland...

[Steelie Mike]

The SFC is a beautiful river. It is too bad that when the fishing is good over there, there river gets so crowded. The scenery is just beautiful. The brute size of the fish there is amazing. It's funny, I recognise a couple of those spots in the pictures. Glad to see you guys had a great trip.

I spoke to an Idaho Fish and Game officer when I was there and he said that the unclipped Nez Perse fish make up about 35% of the return and toward the end of the season those are the majority of the fish that are left in the river. These fish get caught and released frequently. I found it interesting that these fish get counted as native fish when they swim through the dams.

[frankenfish]

Bigskyhunter,

As a result of your beautiful photos my family and I are motorhoming our way to the South Fork of the Clearwater tomorrow for spring break. I'll let you know how we do.

Frank

[STS_FISHER]

I was up there this weekend and in my opinion I'd just leave it alone. The fish are high up in the system and ready to spawn. Beside's most of the "fly fishermen" up there are just flossing the fish anyway........

[B-RUN STEELIE]

No doubt.. its a snag fest for boots up there right now. There are very few wild fish up there.. maybe none so it really does not matter. Many are retreads from the hatchery at Orofino that the fish and game truck up there so folks can go ahead and finish them off. Those same fish have been in the system for over 6 months right now. Pull off a 20 fish day in October in the main river and I'll be impressed.

Not to rain on your parade but pulling a bunch of fish out of that hole is not exactly hero stuff. The unclipped fish are a result of the Nez Perce trying to fake out the "Wild" fish counts to support their gill net plan on the lower river. However, thats why this season is there, to let the folks who can't pull a fish in prime time get a grip and grin at the very end.

[Mojo]

Bigskyhunter,
Before you go jumping on people, read their posts carefully. Their opinions may differ from yours, but they are based on many trips on the Main and Southfork of the Clearweater, and they are OPINIONS. What was stated was that many people floss or snag this time of year. That is true. When you get many (sometimes hundreds) of fish stacked in a hole, it attracts snaggers. The proliferation of out of state plates, and the lack of ethics displayed (by both Idahoans and visitors to Idaho) leads many of the locals to stay off that river this time of year. B-Run Steelie took a local sportswriter (Roger Phillips) up there last year and showed him many cases of unethical behavior, all of which were documented in a lengthy article in the Idaho Statesman. I'm sure a little research would lead you to an interesting read. You don't know these 2 guys. I have fished with both of them, and they are ultimately ethical. They also have been sickened at what has turned into Idaho's dirties little secret (fishing hole). The fact that that region has one of the lowest numbers per fisherman of law enforcement personnel available on any given day doesn't help stop the snaggers. If you weren't snagging or flossing, then you have nothing to worry about.

FYI, all the fish in the Clearwater system left the ocean in June through October. That's a fact. Feel free to contact the IDF&G anadromous fisheries biologist for a full run-down. They are also all getting ready to spawn (the upper Clearwater fish spawn March through mid May), another fact.

There is nothing wrong with fishing for hatchery fish, no matter how long they have been in the river. To each his own, I prefer to swing flies in September and October for chromers.

[Duane Doran]

BigSkyHunter,

Very well put and about halfway through reading some of the responses I had to check the web address to be sure I wasn't somehow viewing Westfly. This is the sort of crap that goes on there and is why I don't visit that site any longer. Awesome photos and it's a place I will certainly visit soon! Thanks for sharing.

[Mojo]

From the Idaho Fish and Game website...


IDAHO FISH AND GAME
CLEARWATER REGION NEWS RELEASE
Lewiston, ID

Date:March 19, 2007Contact:Mike Demick
(208) 799-5010
steelhead snagging angers anglers



Steelhead anglers are mad about an illegal and unethical fishing method being used in the North Fork and South Fork Clearwater rivers.
"Snagging is a big problem right now," said Larry Willmott, Idaho Department of Fish and Game conservation officer in the Clearwater Region. "It's not legal or ethical, and true sportsmen know it."
Fish and Game hears almost daily from anglers complaining about snagging.
"The majority of anglers are good folks that obey the laws and follow a strong code of ethics," Willmott said. "Unfortunately, there are a few that intentionally break the law."
Steelhead become vulnerable to snagging in shallow waters, or when congregating in shallow areas to spawn. Snagging or trying to snag game fish is unlawful and so is keeping game fish that has been snagged.
Snagging means taking a fish with a hook or lure in ways other than enticing a fish to strike and become hooked in its mouth or jaw. In other words, the fish must do the striking, not the angler.
Any game fish that is snagged must be released unharmed immediately.
Anyone who witnesses any illegal fishing or hunting activity is encouraged to contact the Citizens Against Poaching Hotline at 1-800-632-5999, the Clearwater Region Fish and Game office at 208-799-5010 or local conservation officers. Callers may remain anonymous, and rewards are offered for information leading to a citation.
"If possible, collect as much information as possible, especially license plate numbers and descriptions of the violators, and report it as soon as you can," Willmott said. "The more information we have, the easier it is to apprehend and bring these violators to justice." For more fishing rules, see the 2006-2007 fishing rules brochure available at Fish and Game offices, license vendors and on the Internet at: http://fishandgame.idaho.gov (http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/).

[Two Fister]

I saw a funny bumper sticker one time. It read "Why don't animal rights activists ever throw red paint on motorcycle gangs for wearing leather?"

I can understand why a few of our Idahoan ifishers are horrified by practices on the S Fork of the Clearwater. I'm also glad to hear that you guys have taken some small steps to try to do something about it. I'm sure the article got attention from people that would care. Unfortunately, chances are the folks snagging and flossing don't read, or care about, the newspaper.

However, to come on ifish and just start bashing somebody who has made a post about having a great trip is just plain wrong. If you choose to only swing dry line skaters and eschew anything else as unworthy, then that is your choice. Don't come here and throw out a load of thinly disguised accusations.

It's just too easy to come on here and take out your frustrations on a fellow ifisher. Like DD said, take that bull over to westfly where it has ruined a great website.

Otherwise, take that venom over to the S. Fork and direct it at the folks that are actually snagging and flossing. Metaphorically speaking, they'll be the one's in the leather biker jackets...
TF

[2WallaSteel]

I don't believe that STS or b-run were trying to point fingers at anyone. I think that they are just trying to point out a problem that occurs up there and maybe it's time to let the fish do their thing. Just my opinion.

[TillamookChinook]

Looks like a great trip!

TC

[B-RUN STEELIE]

The fish we caught had not been in the system for 6 months, you need to know your facts B Run Steelie.

Thats rich man... I won't imply your clueless, I just tell ya straight up. If you feel good about beating up on some boots with your fly rod thats great. Lots of guys do it. There is a time for steelhead on the Clearwater and that was a few months ago.. I have my facts, and about 25 years on that river. My harsh view is rather pointless because those fish are dead in a couple weeks anyway. If you want to have fun with them I guess thats why they are there. I apologize if your offended.

[MightyMo]

I get tired of reading over threads and somewhere somebody starts in with a holy-then-thou post. If somebody wants to share their good times and the fish they caught with the rest of us, so be it.
Now if they get a little cocky, I'd expect local iFishers to state the real facts. I appreciate BSH sharing his story. But I don't see any reason to bang on someone just because you can.
And if your gonna bang on someone then share some of your storys and pics as well. Because those of us who can't get out on the water right now use them to get us through the days!

Just my :twocents: for a new fly fisher on the block.

[BigSkyHunter]

If you feel good about beating up on some boots with your fly rod thats great. Lots of guys do it. There is a time for steelhead on the Clearwater and that was a few months ago. If you want to have fun with them I guess thats why they are there.

So if you are saying those fish aren't worthy of catching as the fish you were catching a few months ago on the Clearwater, I guess that questions what is a worthy fish to catch. I am curious why you aren't attacking other people on this thread who post pictures of stealhead of the same color or shape. Now you tell me that the fish my friends and I caught are just old boots. This is a good discussion board, don't ruin it with your comments, they are better kept to yourself.

BSH

[B-RUN STEELIE]

No trying to upset you. Telling me to get my facts straight on a fish I pretty much center my fishing efforts around from both the sport and preservation arena is a laugh.

No more from me on the subject.. its a horse that gets beat every year over here. Hey, that "yarn" fly is killer on those "stacked" up fish no doubt about it. If its the first B-RUN you have ever seen, I bet it was a shocker when you saw the size of the thing. Come on over in Sept / Oct P.M a few of us and we will show you the real deal. ( thats an honest offer ) When you see the difference you will know what we are talking about.

Tight lines

[fishhog4u]

Is that a Baitcaster I see ?????

[Mojo]

He must have felt guilty about something because he deleted half of his posts. Interesting...

[B-RUN STEELIE]

" Quick !!! run to the truck and get my fly rod !! ":laugh:

[tailchaser]

This is the very reason I don't post pictures or stories on here anymore.........:shrug: :hoboy:

tc

[B-RUN STEELIE]

Interesting. Storys like this are the reason we have been trying to get the river closed Feb 28. The yahoo factor is through the roof. If you see 50 fished stacked in a hole 600 miles from the ocean, and within a couple of miles of or right at the end of the journy are you a hero for dropping three yarn flys on one leader into the swarm and posting the results on a "fly fishing" board. Sorry guys. No love for that.

BTW- We have no love for the wing nutts that think the best time of the year to fish the Owhyee is when the Browns are on their redds in the riffles. Same deal, different river... same type of guys.

The gushing "way to go boys" over and over on the post on the main board is enough to make a true fisherman yak. I mean really whats the difference between the big crowd 100 yards down the river and these guys in their Orvis costumes.. He goes into great detail on what a circus it is then proceeds to exclaim that they are somehow "different" and " did our own thing" Spare me

Here.. typical March snagger on the So Fork Clearwater.. don't hit him with your fly line.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/Fishster/redneck.jpg

[2/0Dee]

This is a lot worse than westfly!! you guys are really hitting hard! Westfly is not worthy of your presence.
Mike

[tailchaser]

BRun, I read over everything he posted on this thing, and no where did it include flossing or snagging fish or using multiple hook setups. Simple fact is, you don't have a clue how he caught the fish or the technique he used unless you were standing beside him. Simple as that. Also, you're comparing him to an outright outlaw and junkie. Whether it's unethical or not to catch fish this time of year isn't the point, to each thier own, but it's well within the law. You don't like it, take it up with your game commission. If catching an off colored salmon/steelhead was totally unethical and killed every one of them, there would be a lot of problems with fishing in general. You don't get to pick the one that bites the hook.

All the rivers on the w.coast have problems with snaggers and outlaws, don't label everybody on the river one because they have to share the same waterway. I don't know this guy a single bit, but wasting my day bashing his is very petty unless you have first hand knowledge watching him fish then I'll revise my statement accordingly. Until then, you should get off his back.

tc

[Mojo]

Well, I can speak from MY experiences on the Southfork of the Clearwater. Back before it became a total snag-fest, I fished it many times. I've been fly-fishing for roughtly 37 years, so I'm decent. The most fish I ever hooked (on swung flies by-the-way) was 3 in one day, 5 in one weekend. I watched as news of this fishery spread out of the Clearwater valley, and the river changed. These summer/fall run steelies are stacked up like cordwood in March and April, and the banks are now lined with fishermen that cast full sinking 800 grain shootin head lines with 5 (yup it's legal) yarn flies on one leader. They "roll the bottom" till they feel a fish then set the hook like a tarpon fisherman. Way more than 50% of the fishermen on the river do it, and I hate to say it, but fly rods are the weapon of choice.

I don't know this guy from adam. If he didn't do anythig wrong, then he has nothing to hide (as I posted several times before). I don't know why he posted several accusations about BRUN, STS Fisher, and myself, then deleted the posts.

He may be the one guy in 100 million that got 100+ hook-ups (as he claimed in his original post) legally and ethically in the span of a weekend. I just don't see how that could be possible unless he was flossing. Before you jump all over me, drive up to the Southfork of the Clearwater and witness the mayhem. If you don't feel sick, there is something wrong with you. This time of year I drive the extra 1 1/2 hours through Lapwai and back up 12 to get to Orofino, instead of having to witness this crap.

[MightyMo]

I think the horse is done being buried on this thread. Gotta love the the pic that B-Run posted thou. I swear you see that guy on every river out here, I wonder how he got to ID so fast?

[TallFlyGuy]

Interesting. Storys like this are the reason we have been trying to get the river closed Feb 28. The yahoo factor is through the roof. If you see 50 fished stacked in a hole 600 miles from the ocean, and within a couple of miles of or right at the end of the journy are you a hero for dropping three yarn flys on one leader into the swarm and posting the results on a "fly fishing" board. Sorry guys. No love for that.

BTW- We have no love for the wing nutts that think the best time of the year to fish the Owhyee is when the Browns are on their redds in the riffles. Same deal, different river... same type of guys.

The gushing "way to go boys" over and over on the post on the main board is enough to make a true fisherman yak. I mean really whats the difference between the big crowd 100 yards down the river and these guys in their Orvis costumes.. He goes into great detail on what a circus it is then proceeds to exclaim that they are somehow "different" and " did our own thing" Spare me

Here.. typical March snagger on the So Fork Clearwater.. don't hit him with your fly line.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/Fishster/redneck.jpg


Agreed 100%!!! Targeting stacked vulnerable fish that are spent and really not worth eating...Isn't sporting to me in my book.

Well, I can speak from MY experiences on the Southfork of the Clearwater. Back before it became a total snag-fest, I fished it many times. I've been fly-fishing for roughtly 37 years, so I'm decent. The most fish I ever hooked (on swung flies by-the-way) was 3 in one day, 5 in one weekend. I watched as news of this fishery spread out of the Clearwater valley, and the river changed. These summer/fall run steelies are stacked up like cordwood in March and April, and the banks are now lined with fishermen that cast full sinking 800 grain shootin head lines with 5 (yup it's legal) yarn flies on one leader. They "roll the bottom" till they feel a fish then set the hook like a tarpon fisherman. Way more than 50% of the fishermen on the river do it, and I hate to say it, but fly rods are the weapon of choice.

I don't know this guy from adam. If he didn't do anythig wrong, then he has nothing to hide (as I posted several times before). I don't know why he posted several accusations about BRUN, STS Fisher, and myself, then deleted the posts.

He may be the one guy in 100 million that got 100+ hook-ups (as he claimed in his original post) legally and ethically in the span of a weekend. I just don't see how that could be possible unless he was flossing. Before you jump all over me, drive up to the Southfork of the Clearwater and witness the mayhem. If you don't feel sick, there is something wrong with you. This time of year I drive the extra 1 1/2 hours through Lapwai and back up 12 to get to Orofino, instead of having to witness this crap.

Again, AGreed 100% Show us you can fish and catch fish that aren't stackedup, dark, ready to spawn, and vulnerable.....That would be sporting and worth the post.

[steelhead22]

Agreed 100%!!! Targeting stacked vulnerable fish that are spent and really not worth eating...Isn't sporting to me in my book.



Again, AGreed 100% Show us you can fish and catch fish that aren't stackedup, dark, ready to spawn, and vulnerable.....That would be sporting and worth the post.

Wait a minute. You guys WANT hatchery fish spawning?

I don't know anything about this fishery, but as strange as this my sound, these knuckledraggers might actually be doing a SERVICE.

I used to feel the same way about fishin' for "burners". There's a few places over here that you can do the same thing. Then, I talked to a hatchery manager about it and he said, "Actually, we WANT you guy to take these fish out of the system so they don't spawn in the river with the wild fish. If you're willing to fill your 2 spots on your tag with them, please, take as many as you can!"

Now if the vast majority of these fish are wild, and these guys are hammering them when they are all stacked up then that is one thing. But, if these are hatchery fish...who cares???? That IS what they are there for, right?

So what if some guy gets and ego boost from posting and having all the water foamin', Ifish hacks oogle over him like he's some hero? What harm does that do for YOU?

As far as I'm concern areas like this (hatchery holes, snag fests, etc.) accomplish 2 things.

1) They stack the hatchery fish (if that in fact is what these are) so they can easily be caught and taken out of the system and used for exactly what their purpose was to begin with.

2) Keeps all the knuckle draggin' doughballs confined to one area so I can fish over "real" fish without them.

Win, win.

[BigSkyHunter]

The gushing "way to go boys" over and over on the post on the main board is enough to make a true fisherman yak. I mean really whats the difference between the big crowd 100 yards down the river and these guys in their Orvis costumes.. He goes into great detail on what a circus it is then proceeds to exclaim that they are somehow "different" and " did our own thing" Spare me

The difference between me and the people in the crowds is that I fish for a different reason. I fish because it is my passion and has been since I caught my first steelhead when I was three years old. I fish because I like to share it with others. My goal is to help as many people catch their first salmon or steelhead, it is a experience that they will never forget, and if someday they have a bearing influence to make a positive difference on the fishing sport, I want them to think back of that moment when I helped them catch their first salmonidae.

The people in the crowds give fishing in that area a bad reputation. They are there for all the wrong reasons. I understand your concern about the snagging and people harvesting fish that are about spent, but that is something to bring up to the proper people, complaining about it and pointing fingers on here will go no where. I feel that the fishing regulations on that stream should change, but it is a money maker for the sport fishing industry in that area so it is not likely to change soon.


Show us you can fish and catch fish that aren't stackedup, dark, ready to spawn, and vulnerable.....That would be sporting and worth the post.

Obviously you don't know me and have no right to judge the quality of fish I catch.

[Mojo]

Steelhead22,
There are no true wild fish left in this system. In the 1960's and 70's logging roads were cut all over in this country, and they were (in general)not constructed well. The resulting silt slides literally killed off all the fish that were left in the system. The Nez Perce tribe and IDF&G have been stocking that river with Clearwater Strain B-Run smolts since the late 1970's - early 1980's, with the hopes that there would be a meager wild run. The problem is 2-fold. 1) these hatchery fish (even thought they are from native stock) don't have a very successful spawning record (less than 1/2 of 1% survival to parr stage from what I've been told), and 2)there is still a lot of silt in the system even though the roads have either been repaired or closed and overgrown. Both of these things may be actually the same issue and a cause and effect relationship.

Anyway, to answer your question, there is no real problem with wild fish and hatchery fish interbreeding on this river, since they are probably related anyway (maybe second cousins, 3 times removed). The ones that do spawn, don't have very good survival. Thanks God for the largest steelhead hatchery in the US, or we wouldn't have this fishery.

The problem I have with places (fisheries) like this is they imply that this type of thing is acceptable. They teach people bad habits that may "leak out" later when they can't get a chromer they spotted to bite on the Grand Rhonde or the Deschutes. A little history lesson for you... in the 1960's and early 70's the IDF&G allowed snagging for kokanee on the South Fork of the Boise River above Anderson Ranch Reservoir. You could snag and keep 25 a day. The sad thing was people started snagging in other closed waters around the state, wherever they saw kokanee in their spawning colors, because it was implyed that this was o.k. The F&G got smart, and outlawed snagging years ago. Drive that road in September, and you will see many people still doing it. Old timers swear it is there right, because "that's how they always did it", and new people to this fishery learn from them. Some people are convinced that the law is just a sham, and not really enforced. The IDF&G was passing out tickets like candy at a kindergarteners convention last Labor Day weekend. Many folks found out it was no joke. My point... implying that this snag fest on the Southfork Clearwater is in any way a good thing, is off base IMO. If guys want to use the opportunity to try to "skate one up" more power to them. If they are using yarn flies and "rolling the bottom", then I have no use for them.

[B-RUN STEELIE]

Dude, those are some sweet Salmon pics. Bet you didn't hook over a hundered in a couple of days :smirk: thats good stuff man, great to look at and I bet it was a blast ( I WISH WE HAD THOSE)

I can see fishing is indeed your passion. In fact, I never doubted it. Just tell it like it is. Pointing out what a circus it is on that river and then claiming your different than the rest of the crowd is misleading. Over 100 hook ups in a couple days ??? If something is too good to be true then it probably is. WORD.

P.S, have a great summer. I'll be out your way to hit the Bighole no doubt

[TallFlyGuy]

Obviously you don't know me well enough and have no right to judge the quality of fish I catch. Here is a sample of fishing last year, with a friend from Montana catching her first spring chinook, and one of my favorite fishing partners, my younger brother.

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/medium/P6090021-_cropp.jpg

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/medium/PB220009.JPG

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/medium/PC230037bbbbbbbbbbbb.jpg

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/medium/brian_blakecrop.jpg

http://www.ifish.net/gallery/data/500/medium/P6240271.JPG

Nice fish, Fly caught or not.

[FastAction]

There is nothing wrong with fishing for hatchery fish, no matter how long they have been in the river. To each his own, I prefer to swing flies in September and October for chromers.

:jester: Idaho chromers....
Close but no Cigar...Beautiful fish non the less and Well worth the respect they get!:smash:

[B-RUN STEELIE]

They exist.. Put my old buddy Don on this one in October. Its a little different than the others in this tread.. We get a bunch of these until about the first of November.. is this a boot ??

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/Fishster/IMGP0046.jpg

[Mojo]

:jester: Idaho chromers....
Close but no Cigar...Beautiful fish non the less and Well worth the respect they get!:smash:

I never got one myself...
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b286/TEEMMUSEDRULE/SeptemberSteel.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b286/TEEMMUSEDRULE/Mojo-boot.jpg

[B-RUN STEELIE]

I never got one myself...

Mojo.. we are gonna blow it man... Sssshhhhh

[steelhead22]

Mojo-

I completely see where you are coming from with the "teaching bad habits" thing. Absolutely makes sense to me.

I realize that there's nothing about the "snag fest" areas that is a good thing, BUT, in my opinion, if these fish aren't being snagged or lined then it seems like there really isn't a problem? Correct?

[TallFlyGuy]

Mojo-

I completely see where you are coming from with the "teaching bad habits" thing. Absolutely makes sense to me.

I realize that there's nothing about the "snag fest" areas that is a good thing, BUT, in my opinion, if these fish aren't being snagged or lined then it seems like there really isn't a problem? Correct?

If there are bunches of people casting flies, eggs, spinners, etc at the same group of fish, sure they might not be snagging, but I don't think it is really "fishing" either.

[frankenfish]

Wow. Things got really vitriolic since I left!

We took the motorhome down to the SF Clearwater, stayed 36 hours, then over the pass to the Grande Ronde river, stayed 6 hours, then to Eterprise, Oregon and the state park at Wallowa Lake. We hiked around for several days there. Here are the facts about the SF Clearwater at the time we were there.

1. Most of the fish were high up in the system where the water is too fast for anything BUT snagging and there were lots of snaggers with multiple BIG hooks and weights, SOME of whom were using fly rods.
2. The few flyfishers I saw in the river near Harpster and from mile 3 to mile 12 were not snagging, but they also were not catching.
3. I was told by the guy who owns the RV park that early February is the best time but he assured me that even now fish can be caught throughout the river but are there in smaller numbers.
4. The weather was terrible, with constant heavy rain.
5. We arrived at 4 PM. I scoped the river, talked with the locals and then spent the evening with the family.
6. Up at the crack of dawn and headed for a nice tailout above a heavy, fast flowing riffle, about three miles from our motorhome, expecting the steelhead to rest there in the AM.
7. I fished a short sinking tip, 5 foot leader, a purple peril as the point fly and a small egg dropper.
8. On my third swing through the tailout I felt a firm pull, fish on.
9. It took me twenty minutes to land this very long fish.
10. It was a spawned out, beat up hen.
11. I revived the fish and went back to the motorhome.
12. I may try to make it back there some February.
13. I saw no flyfishers in the lower river attempting to snag fish.
14. I saw the area where the ifishers were fishing.
15. It lends itself to standard flyfishing techniques.
16. The flyfishers I saw there were NOT attempting to snag fish.
17. I did not fish there as it was crowded.

Frank

[Luke the Drifter]

The clowns who started this thread lost all possible respect in the picture with the baitcaster laying on the rocks behind the dude holding the milted out steelie along with a flyrod. I'm betting the flyrod was staged and the tool of the trade was laying on the rocks.

[steelhead22]

If there are bunches of people casting flies, eggs, spinners, etc at the same group of fish, sure they might not be snagging, but I don't think it is really "fishing" either.


I guess my question to you is, if they aren't snagging...and they aren't fishing...WHAT EXACTLY ARE THEY DOING?

My views on this have changed dramatically to more time I spend on the river. Granted, I WILL NOT fish area's like this...but I'll fish by them. As more and more of my buddies begin their careers in Fish and Wildlife, Oregon State Police Fish and Game,guiding operations and I spend more time on the river, I've gained more insight into this discussion.

Fact: Hatchery fish are put in the river to be caught!

As long as you're not snagging, or doing anything else illegal to take these fish, take as many as you legally can and do whatever the hell you like with 'em. You want them to eat? Whatever.:sick: Just for the eggs? Great. Fertilizer? Sure.

It's your tag, you paid for it, fill it with whatever type of legal fish you want. If all you want is chromers, fine. If you're happy filling up your spots with a bunch of burners, great, good luck with the eggs! Hell, the sooner you fill up one hatchery tag with a bunch of nasty hatchery spawners, the sooner you are going to buy another one, putting another drop into the ODFW money pot!

I guess I just don't see the problem. Even the guys driving this thread say "it doesn't REALLY matter, that's what these fish are there for." Yet, they continue to have a problem with it????

Why? Because it's a pi$$in' match at this point.

Then, Luke the Drifter, hops on with his "lost all respect" comment.

Yeah, Luke, what a bunch of LOSERS those guys who use baitcaster's are!!! Please, come down of your high horse.

Too much chest poundin' on this forum for me. Cya!

[TallFlyGuy]

I guess my question to you is, if they aren't snagging...and they aren't fishing...WHAT EXACTLY ARE THEY DOING?

My views on this have changed dramatically to more time I spend on the river. Granted, I WILL NOT fish area's like this...but I'll fish by them. As more and more of my buddies begin their careers in Fish and Wildlife, Oregon State Police Fish and Game,guiding operations and I spend more time on the river, I've gained more insight into this discussion.

Fact: Hatchery fish are put in the river to be caught!

As long as you're not snagging, or doing anything else illegal to take these fish, take as many as you legally can and do whatever the hell you like with 'em. You want them to eat? Whatever.:sick: Just for the eggs? Great. Fertilizer? Sure.

It's your tag, you paid for it, fill it with whatever type of legal fish you want. If all you want is chromers, fine. If you're happy filling up your spots with a bunch of burners, great, good luck with the eggs! Hell, the sooner you fill up one hatchery tag with a bunch of nasty hatchery spawners, the sooner you are going to buy another one, putting another drop into the ODFW money pot!

I guess I just don't see the problem. Even the guys driving this thread say "it doesn't REALLY matter, that's what these fish are there for." Yet, they continue to have a problem with it????

They are harassing fish that's what they are doing. Trying to forcefeed them. More power to them. It's just not my cup of tea, and don't think it is that great of an accomplishment to show that you did it.

With your argument,--and hatchery fish meant for whoever/however, then I guess snagging and even netting isn't a problem, Just as long as we get those dang hatchery fish out of there.

There's no sport in it. Ethics are out the window. Where is the fair chase? There is none, the fish are stacked and trapped in low water conditions. Kinda like the salmon and the sea lions below bonneville damn. Only this time the Sea Lions are the People!!




Ye

[salmonslug]

Kinda like the salmon and the sea lions below bonneville damn. Only this time the Sea Lions are the People!!

Hey guys, c'mon a little respect for the sea lions please-- leave them out of this drama.

[SteelheadBum2]

The clowns who started this thread lost all possible respect in the picture with the baitcaster laying on the rocks behind the dude holding the milted out steelie along with a flyrod. I'm betting the flyrod was staged and the tool of the trade was laying on the rocks.


I lost respect for you Luke with that comment right there. Lossing respect from totting around a baitcaster :hoboy:

Paul (steelhead22) hit the nail on the head.

[BigSkyHunter]

Is that a Baitcaster I see ?????

I never answered this before because I was so upset about this post.

Yep, a baitcaster from a fisherman that happened to help my buddy land his fish. Ten minutes later the fisherman and his friend left with their baitcasters in hand as they had respect to see that we were fishing the spot.

My friend in the picture that you accuse of using a baitcaster and staging the picture is a University of Montana sophomore football player. He is the son of Jeff Fisher, head coach of the NFL Tennesee Titans Football team. Jeff is a respectable fly fisherman with many appearances on hunting and fishing television shows. The waders my friend is wearing are ones his dad was given last month while on a fly fishing show filming in Belize, as you can see they are one of the newest design of waders to hit the market this year. Though this is irrelevant to most, I am just convincing those who had mixed feelings that we were fly fishing using ethical methods and that we have a high level of credebility. I am glad I was called on the baitcasters in the background, this is a fly fishing board and it looks distasteful to see those in a picture.

In the future I would really appreciate it if certain ifish users would not conclude to accusations and assumptions. Ask questions, be polite, be respectful to what others opinions are, and treat others with the level of respect that you would want to be treated on a thread that you started. This is a discussion board were valuable knowledge is learned and experiences shared, not a place to point fingers and to place judgement on someone you have never met.

BSH

P.S. To those who question the credibilty of my friends background, you can go here and look:

http://wpe1.montanagrizzlies.com/fmi/xsl/mt_griz/db/roster/xsl/detail_roster.xsl?-db=mtgriz_content&-lay=content_roster_detail&id_record=2146&-max=1&-find

[frankenfish]

Big Sky Hunter,

You don't owe any explanations to people who are narrow minded and jump to conclusions. They may as well have accused your buddy of hitting the steelhead with a rock to catch it since there are so many rocks nearby. Maybe we all should look around us in a paranoid fashion to make sure we are a certain distance from baitcasting gear. I am surprised, distressed and saddened by what I have seen on this thread. It's amazing what jealousy can do and I personally think the moderators should have done something about the mean postings on this thread. Thank you for reporting on your flyfishing trip. Some of us are not so mean spirited.

I wish we had gotten down there a couple weeks earlier. We only decided to go when the friends we were supposed to see in California had to change plans, so it was a last minute decision.

Frank

[frankenfish]

PS,

Illegitimus non carborundum.

Frank

[frankenfish]

OPS,

Got to change that. Can't spell Latin anymore. Should be.

Illegitimis non carborundum.

Frank

[SteelheadBum2]

Illegitimis non carborundum.

Could not of said it better Franken fish. This long time latin saying means
"Don't let the ba$tards grind you down."

Dont be a stranger any more BigSkyHunter, don't feel scared to post anymore, because, so many great ifisher's have stopped posting reports with pics here because of B.S. like this. There will be always somone who will complain.

-Matt

[2/0Dee]

This is worse than westfly. At least they know when to let it go.
Mike

[Pelhament]

I have no qualms with your fishing techniques or pictures, but I am confused as to how waders determine credibility...

[BigSkyHunter]

I have no qualms with your fishing techniques or pictures, but I am confused as to how waders determine credibility...

Waders don't determine credibility. I may have went out on a limb with that one but I was trying to make a point about the judgement that was placed on my friends and I as we were accused as just being "rednecks using unethical fly fishing techniques to catch old boots".

This thread is a dead end, just let it dissolve to the bottom of the list.

BSH

[Pelhament]

Thanks for the clarification, I just read that and wanted to make sure I read it correctly. Like I said before I see nothing wrong with what you guy's were doing, hell I went out a month ago to the local steelhead hatchery to see if any hatchery boots were still crusing around out of boredom. I didnt find any but if I did, I would have had no problem trying to "force feed them a fly" or whatever they thought you were doing.

[Ras]

Dang, I'm bummed that I found this post too late. No more pics. Too bad that is what became of the post.

I drove up through the area on the way back from Yellowstone last week. Yeah, saw more people along 10 miles of river than I saw in all of Yellowstone, but hey, they had to fish somewhere.

Unfortunately, a couple of people that I have appreciated following over the years here really should have kept to themselves. ***** to your buddies over a beer, that's not needed here.

Ras