As the Ifish World turns - Again

[Deleted User]

The issue of seeming incompatible BB philosophies between Jennie and myself came to a crossroads last night. There are no rights or wrongs in philosophy. Only preferences. Unfortunately, this inevitablility came out in the "Let's hear it for BigStew" thread. I wish I had thought of expressing myself within a new thread instead, so I am copying those posts over to here where this can be discussed for those interested (anything deleted will be e-mailed to all members). ....

As mentioned in the other thread, I have been bearing what I consider undue strong criticism from Jennie over some of my posts. I am being held to a different standard and pressured to be something other than myself. I don't have any desire to be someone else and expressed that; and that I will take a few days away from the BB to decide what I want to do. Subsequently, Jennie removed my moderator status (she e-mailed it was temporary until resolutions). I enjoy the role I've been in otherwise. I think most members are alright with my posting style and content. At this point of where I am headed I don't need this pressured function. As I mentioned, I may return as moderator if I can be myself. Otherwise, I may host another compatible fishing BB. Although the thought of just freely posting, occassionally to this BB, and posting on other fishing BB's while not dealing with so often being between a rock and a hard place as a moderator appeals to me. Time and reactions will decide. Thanks much to all of you great people who have supported me here as moderator at Ifish. - Steve Hanson

[Mikie]

Hey R.T. Good Idea , how about a little normal fishing fact's @ fun board. I personally would like to see you start your own site. I really like you're style , and you're humor is top notch. People who start to dictate their thought's and insight's are heading for the trash heap. So what if someone get's their panties in a knot. Be yourself , be happy. images/icons/grin.gif MIKIE

[Grant Scheele]

Mikie, I can't believe you and I are from the same town. images/icons/rolleyes.gif
RT, remember what I taught you young man. Sleep on it before you make any decisions. (not that you ever sleep) I haven't read the mentioned post yet but I don't think that these members are going to let you leave without a fight. I think that you and Jenny will come to an agreement and I hope soon because you are a major part of the personality of this board. As I can only speculate on your beef with Jenny I have to think that Jenny is only trying to maintain a DB that is fit for Family entertainment and I can appreciate that. I see no reason that you can't be a major part of that and remain true to yourself at the same time. If you ever start feeling a little to clean cut just go fishing with Superfly for a day. He will get that out of your system right away. images/icons/grin.gif Peace!

[ 03-23-2001: Message edited by: O.Mykiss ]

[Deleted User]

Here are the posts from the other thread:

Jennie@ifish
Jennie the attempted administrator
Member # 2

Just wanted to publicly thank Big Stew for the work he is doing on keeping the peace and professionalism (sp) on ifish.
Thanks big jig buddy!
Jen
--------------------

Only a princess can catch fish!
-----------

RT
Chromer
Member # 4

My thanks too Bigstew for the nice job you are doing! You're one of the goodguys. ...
... Since I have been getting nothing but off the BB criticism from Jennie about things she deems unprofessional by me on the BB, it is obvious that there is 2 messages above; one 'between the lines' for me. She does not like some of my subject matter and many of my humorous posts. I can't seem to please her anymore, as hard as I try and despite all I have done to help develope and moderate the Ifish BB. The real root of the problem, as I see it, is likely that what I have done here has taken attention away from her original and continued agenda she has for herself here. ....

I will take a few days away to think about what I want to do. I will either be given the option of staying on here as myself, or will take the option hosting another fishing BB; as myself! Perhaps all you members can take time to express what you would like to see happen here as well. Thanks much for all of you that have supported me. - Steve Hanson

--------------------

Know fish or no fish. - RT
---------

stlhdr
Chromer
Member # 5

I'll second that for Stew. Good job there bud.
Steve, You know how I feel about your presence here on the board. Your input on this board is invaluable. It just wouldn't be the same without you. Enjoy your weekend and I personally look forward to seeing you back here next week.
mark
HOGTIDE
Chromer
Member # 396

STEVE HANSON: READ YOUR E-MAIL YA BIG DUFUS!

(edit: I did HOG' and I appreciate your positive support! - RT)
--------

Starr
Chromer
Member # 827

I guess I'm too new on Ifish to have anticipated that bomb you just dopped RT. I've never met either Jen or RT, but I feel your somewhat different perspectives complimented the BB. I, for one would hate to see ya go RT, there would be a big hole left felt by all.
---------

bigstew
Ifish Forum Guide
Member # 27

Thanks to everyone for their kind words, I am doing the best I can and appreciate your support. I for one would be sad if RT(Steve) left this board, I appreciate his friendship alot. Steve and Jennie are two of my closest friends and hopefully things can and will be worked out between them. Steve is kind of like a big brother to me and this board would not be the same without him and I mean that.
I know ifish is a true labor of love to Jennie and she feels a closeness to it that the rest of us cannot fully appreciate because it's her "baby" she puts so much of herself into it and it shows. Steve also has put his labor of love into this Bulletin Board and done a lot to help anglers learn more and try to entertain and have fun at the same time.So hopefully things will be worked out between these two friends and wonderful people.
Stew
---------

smilesforu
Chromer
Member # 152

Hmmm Was wondering about the name change Steve take your vacation and relaxxxxxx we aren't going anywhere. Besides we need you to focus on that book or it will never get done.
Hmmm...See Rt lost the mod job....scratching my head. clear as mud to me.
Marty M
Steelheader.net
-----------

******
Chromer
Member # 87

What HOGTIDE said! Ditto.
******
(edit: I read yours too ******, and thanks much for your nice support. - RT)
---------------------------

[White Willie]

I support jennies discussions to edit what she wants but this is wrong you are a valuable resource to this board and should not leave. sometimes our humor on this board gets a little ugly but so what and the bantering back and forth between people who disagree gets a little out of hand so what. you out of all the people on this board show support for the new guys give good tech reports ect. If your way of saying and doing things isnt jennies way of doing things so what you have done a outstanding job and have been very helpful to all of us images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif my 02 worth

[Hottamale1]

RT, and the iFish Gang...

Its early right now and I'm about to go out and do some springer fishing but since I have a few minutes..Here my $.02 Worth.

RT...you've done a good job with the BB and your insight and experience with topics ranging from Fish Flashers to Indian Tribal rights has been a learning experience for all. I'm not sure what particular instance recently may have fueled this fire but I strongly beleive that your input into this BB strongly outweighs any type of wrongdoing. Hey, this is a public forum that has taken on a "life of its own". I really do appreciate the candidness and Passion that some of our fellow iFisher's express and of course your own. Without the ability to freely express your opinion, and stating that it is simply YOUR opinion, would be wrong. It doesn't hurt MY feelings one bit. If anything, I get a good chuckle out of it, with the ensuing responses!!!

So, all I can say is Hang in there. Jennie's got a great thing going here and without you around....makes things a little less interesting!!!

Scott

[Mike H]

Oh man, RT's getting busted images/icons/shocked.gif! As much as I disagree with your most of your issue posts RT, I think you are the life of this board. You offer great insight, valuable tech advise, and a stong stance on a lot of fishing related issues. If you clean up a few of your humor posts and don't post so many bikini-clad women pics, I think you'd sit fine with Jen and everyone else on the board.

Don't leave Board ****!

I'm gonna be out of town for the next 10 days so somebody better fill me in when I get back!

Mike H

[Deleted User]

As a long time reader and first time poster, I have a couple questions.

It appears that you have turned this personal or business disagreement into some kind of public popularity contest between you and Jennie. Is that your intention? Or are you fishing for RT fans to lure to another site?

[Fish4Fun]

RT, I support what you have done for the board. From the fishing tips to the humor post. This is after all a public forum and there needs to be some freedom of speech. As we have all agreed on over the past year, none of us care for the foul language. I think for the most part you have helped keep it clean. You and your knowledge will be missed from this site if you choose to leave. I for one hope that you don't, there is a lot that you can share to the lurkers and new fishers that view this board. I know this has been a tough season with such limited fishing success, on the rivers. The humor postings this winter I think helped get the members through the really slow times though.

[Spooled]

R.T., sorry to here of the rift. I think there has been a lot of stuff deleted lately that shouldn't have. It is Jennie's board, therefore she can do what she wants. My opinion is probably going to be unpopular with Jennie and maybe bigstew but here goes.

It is a fact that most people that fish are men. This board is about fishing, so most of it's members are men. Men and women have different perspectives on what is funny as well as just about anything else in this world. My wife thinks most of the things men laugh and joke about are vulgar or not funny. It is the old, women are from Venus, men are from Mars thing. I find most of your posts funny and enjoy having you moderate. I was wondering why bigstew was trying so hard to be a heavy. He could lighten up a little.

Anyway, I like this board a lot, and would hate to see you leave. In my opinion, if this board is going to keep growing, the people moderating and running it should understand their audience better. Fishing is predominately a male sport (just a fact, not a dig at women) and they are the ones who read this board. All of a sudden my signature means something. images/icons/smile.gif

[finclipped]

RT, I think you are a very valuable to fish and a good advocate for the sports fishing industry. It looks like you have a greater tolerance for what is said on this board than does Jennie. I think there are threads that go overboard, and no two people will ever completely agree on what is appropriate and what is not. I certainly prefer this fishing site to any others out there, but if it degenerated into something like the others, I would leave to. I would hate to see you go.

[Oakie Drifter]

Ok, Im going to buck the tide here but now I dont care since RT no longer has the power to exile me.

My thoughts are that:
1. This is a family site and many children look up to you ifishers as mentors. Any posts with vulgar language, especially from the moderator, is not appreciated. Ex: RT's dig at Angie using over and over the male organ word.
2. This IS Jennies site. She has every right to run this site the way she wishes and to keep her agendas. Jennies is THE boss. Dont we normally follow our bosses directions?
3. RT has put alot of blood, sweat, and time into this site, but one must remember, he is a volunteer. I know other volunteers in the community that give just as much to organizations, but they dont try to dictate how that organization is run.
4. RT, you need now, in my opinion, to start your own website where you can control and dictate everything acccording to your policies and sense of humor.

[HOGTIDE]

I realize this is Jennies site and I believe we all can't thank her enough for what she has provided us with. But as far as the BB format goes, I believe it receives it's personality, philosophy and human characteristics from RT. Sure, he is a bit on the edge from time to time, for us 'conservative' types. But, taking it to the 'edge' is freqeuntly what keeps this place interesting. RT's genuine political efforts and concerns for our fisheries combined with his expertise make him, in my view, irreplaceable.

I know this isn't politically correct to say...but, let's face it, this BB is far and away a format for men. Within that context, all the connotations of men talking in a group, RT is bold enough to hold a very hardline, when the discussion gets out of hand. He will 'not' allow agressive posts, and if you have noticed, even his responses to the sometimes crude rubberducky crowd from Washington, are designed to temper and redirect the focus of a thread which is falling apart.

I believe we have a moderator who is a perfect fit for this BB. I hope he is wise enough to see his value here. I believe we have a site administrator who does a superior job, and by the way, is a perfect compliment to our moderator. You guys balance each other well.

Work it out. We need ya.

John

[Spooled]

Thanks HOGTIDE for your post of the political correctness of what is simply a fact. I felt I was going out on a limb to mention it, but it needed to be brought up in my opinion. I had my wife moderate my post, so as not to be insensitive to anyone.

[Salmonator]

WOW! And I thought this board was as clean as i've seen it quite awhile. Was there a post or posts somewhere that got deleted that I didn't get a chance to see that started this whole thing? I voiced my opinion about some tastefull topics a few months back and caught hell from all the free speechers for it. Sorry Jen if I missed something but I didn't get a whole lot of support from the "lets keep it clean" side of the fence. I believe I was called a hippie and would have been upset had I not considered the source. Hippie sounds much more distinguished than inbred images/icons/shocked.gif In fact I believe it was actually Steve that asked that everyone toned it down a bit. Jen, can you let us know what it was that made you put your foot down? Or did you even put your foot down at all (we won't really know until we've heard your side). I agree 100% that this board should be as clean as you want it to be. If nobody likes it they can all go to another or start their own but I don't think that would be the case. I won't boycott ifish just because Steve can't display his brand of humor. But I do wonder why all of a sudden after all this time it's now do or die...

[Osprey]

What the?????
This might cost me,but Oh well here goes. images/icons/tongue.gif

I for one Welcome Rt comments and humor ,sure it's on the edge but with out him as Moderator and resident Emu speacialist this site would just be another site,he's here because of his knowledge.....any one what to stand up and say they have as much experience as he does images/icons/confused.gif

I prefer my moderator to have Human qualities and not belong to the "Stepford Wifes Club"(a generalization not a shot at you Jen)

To edit a post just to edit is wrong images/icons/mad.gif because you don't agree with the comments or contents ,as long as no cussing was involved Oh well images/icons/rolleyes.gif

BTW obrian,you are not who you say you are are you images/icons/wink.gif You should post you're comments with you're real moniker images/icons/wink.gif

And Oakie Shifter I got news for you
THIS IS NOT A FAMILY WEB SITE GET REAL!!!!!!

99% are grown men who have comments and opions to express,as a responsable parent you need to supervise what you're children are reading. My .02....Os

.............Moderate This..............

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Ya Know RT, I really don't think there's anything I could probably say that wouldn't get me booted. So with that in mind, I would like to thank you for all the LONG HOURS and knowledge you've posted. Not just your knowledge, but the whole board's. If a question starts slipping to the bottom, I've noticed you're quick to respond to it when you catch it just to bring it back to the top because a lot of people usually only see the top 10 posts. You're a fun guy as well, and I'm glad that you show you possess humor, and not LAME humor that is on a Power Rangers show.

Some troll shows up, who's obviously trying not to get banned from at least one message board, feeds SOMEONE'S ego, and basically caters to them. All you have to do is stroke an ego on this board and that type post shows up on this board about once a week.
Then BigStew, yeah Stew, we haven't had any beef (that I'm aware of) but for you to remove my reply off that Wild Steelhead post was just plain BS. I'm Calling BS on this one. RT wouldn't have removed my reply, that I would bet for sure. I did not curse, and if anyone read my reply would know what I said.
Ya know if these kids that bombard this board with so many hits (that's what I hear from people images/icons/rolleyes.gif ) can even pick up on sarcastic overtones, or any overtones for that matter, then why jump on people? It's nothing they haven't heard at school or at home, or on the tv. Hey but we are giving them a sanctuary here...yeah, uh huh.

I have no beef with anyone that acts human or PRETENDS to be human, and then posts about it. For a moderator who isn't getting paid, I would say you do a great job, and I would say RT that you are human, and I surely wouldn't want you to become assimilated in someone's EGO. I'm glad you were able to read between the lines Steve. I'm glad you're a friend because I'll support you if you want to leave because I couldn't blame you if you did. And if your post here is to bring up how important you are, then maybe you really shouldn't have even posted this because is it really worth it?

It's ok though because I too know of message board Steve, that would take you as a moderator, and when the applications come through, let's just say yours will be on top of the stack, and I know all refugees will be welcome. Steve, a celebrity said these words "I don't trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesn't die." I know I wouldn't either because if you come up on a wounded animal, you can't trust it either.

all_4_the_chinookie@hotmail.com <---read it, know it, and type it if you want to "bring it" Or just send a private message....

[Pete]

I gotta step in. I don't thing anyone, including Jennie, would question the value that RT brings to this board. No one questions the humor. It's refreshing and funny. I think the issues relate primarily to actions off the board. I doubt many folks have heard much from RT or Jennie about those events and even fewer have heard both sides. Let's let them resolve the issues and get after the best fishing we've seen in a very long time.

[parker]

Wow. I've seen some good boards go down the toilet. Unfortunately, this seems to be one of them, and all for the wrong reasons.

Personally, I feel the moderators are way out of line on this board. Your job is to "moderate", not "dictate". Please read that last sentence to yourself.

RT is the main reason why I post to this board. His knowledge, insight, and character are priceless. If you find his posts offensive, then maybe the internet isn't the place for you.

I'm a big fan of Freedom of Speech. That whole concept has been lost on this board by our current "dictators". As Osprey said "To edit a post just to edit is wrong".

Here. Here.

Parker

[fishhead5]

Last I heard this board has 8000 + hits a day. It has been built up mainly by two people, Jennie and RT who both volinteer their time and efforts for this board. I think that RT has done a good job as moderater. I don't think that it would be where it is today without him. I for one would be sorry to see him go, as he has helped a lot of people with their questions on fishing. I would hate to see this board lose this.

Fishhead5

[superfly]

I am in shock, What is going on here, has everyone been drinking to much Willamette river water. I really enjoy R.T as a moderator because of what he brings to the conversations. He has to be offensive and contreversial, that is his job, he is also very versed in all the issues at hand with sports fishing at this time. Big deal if he rips on the Indians, someone has to besides me. I really don't know what else to say that would not be edited, but if He leaves here, this board will surely loose in quality and character. I don't think you could replace what he brings to this site.
Peace Superfly

[STRIKE ZONE]

I'm sure that Jennie & R.T. will work things out.This board would definatly take a hit and wouldn't be the same if R.T. wasn't able to display his knowledge,humor and his great greetings to new memebers.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE

[OR Coast Range]

I agree with the general tone of this thread. You are a valuable figure on this BB, you give it its character and you guide the topics from straying off topic well.

But this is Jen's board. If she wants to dictate how to run her board then its up to her. If she wants to remove Steve's influence thats her decision (albeit it would be a wrong decision in my opinion). And I can see where she is coming from. She wants a family oriented board, and RT's humor can be off color at times (its part of what gives this BB its great character and it very definately is one of the reasons I keep coming back).

The best solution is for RT to moderate a BB that won't conflict with his personality. If Jen wants to be a part of that, she has the experience and the web presence to help but RT needs his freedom to be himself (assuming that he even wants to moderate another board).

[Jellyhead]

Before I jump on one side here, let me say this. LET'S HEAR THE REEL TRUTH--the whole truth. I don't think we are seeing the whole picture.

Two facts:
1.) Jennie has provided us with the vehicle to exchange info, and is at the wheel.

2.) RT has done a great job, and contributed a ton of good info.

I think We're all missing some info, something that's gone on outside of the BB. Until I know what it is, and get both sides of the story, I'm not gonna jump on anyone's bandwagon.

Thank you Jennie for providing this board for everyone's use, and all you're hard work. And Thank you RT for all your contributions and hard work.

Nuff Said.

Aaron

[ 03-23-2001: Message edited by: Jellyhead ]

[Deleted User]

Hey Spooled if you saw me you would realize that I can't be anything but the heavy images/icons/grin.gif
Seriously though I've been on BBs where there have been everything from petty arguments to death threats just because of some small little flame that flickered out of control. I just believe that if you have a personal problem with someone on the BB you should keep it personal! It's as simple as that. There are some great people on this board and I've yet to have any beef with any of them. My deletion of some posts were my call and if I've offended anyone then I'm sorry but I thought some posts were made for the sole purpose of flaming.
If Steve leaves as moderator that would be a sad day for ifish because I'll tell you I do not have the expertise that he has in most aspects of fishing. The guy is amazing!!! and funny too. Steve is my friend and will continue to be long after all the dust settles in all this.
So hopefully over the weekend all this will get sorted out.Hang in there everyone and let's get back to having fun here. Fishing is fun right? Except when you're 47 years old and trying to climb up a very steep bank after snagging up 500 times without catching a fish.
Stew

[ 03-23-2001: Message edited by: bigstew ]

[ 03-25-2001: Message edited by: bigstew ]

[Deleted User]

Thanks you all for your comments. I can't leave good friends like you. But I can't continue to moderate in a fashion out of my own character. I was going to think about this for a few days while going on vacation, leaving in a couple hours in fact. But I have come up with a very simple solution to all of this. I am going to do what I prefer; and that is to just be a regular contributing member of this Ifish BB, and a few other BB's. I don't want the "between a rock and a hard place" moderator role any longer. I just want to be like the rest of you good guys on here. So that's what I will be. Bigstew is capable of doing a very good job and he has my support. Thanks so much for your support and care guys! And thanks for all you have done for me Jen. I will be around from time to time to post as myself. Yipee, I'm free! - Steve (RT)

[Deleted User]

I agree with Jennie in that this is her site. If it was any of your sites, you'd want to maintain it the way you would want also.
Sorry, my kids read this and I dont appreciate them reading inappropriate things. Yes, Salmonator, you did miss some postings that were not professional or helpful to anyone.
Now, I suggest RT and all his email cromies go get their own website, rate it "R" and then you can have all the freedom of speech you want. Just because we have freedom of speech doesnt mean that you can abuse it. One doesnt see playboy in school libraries for example, do they.... images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[FISHRUS]

Hey, this is Jennie's site....Rt, this is a family site and you even said this in the past, thats why you asked everyone to tone it down....sometimes you guys out get a little carry away on this board. I think that Big Stew was doing a good job for what shortime he and Rt was working together, and Jennie was just expressing her thanks for his help out here. After all Rt did asked for the help. Just because Jennie was thanking him, this whole thing got out of hand.....Well Steve, I wish to thank you for help in the past. But now I think its time to finish the book and sell it....After all thats what it is all about for you, Right?? This is a family site, and I dont care to read about this is man's site...lol when this is owned and run by a women..... images/icons/rolleyes.gif I dont bash men here, like some members bashed women. I'm better than that... I want to thank all the members that posted about fishing tips...
after all thats what it is about... I wouldnt have caught those two beauitful steelhead without your tips....thanks images/icons/wink.gif

[ 03-23-2001: Message edited by: FISHRUS ]

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

The reason Playboy doesn't show up on school library shelves is because you have to be 18 to buy it, and unless you go to school in Mississippi, the chances of 18 year olds running around still in school are slim. That and it is a state funded institution. Thought I would clear that up. You can access Playboy through a school's internet though.

And BigStew, my intention was not to flame, and basically I could care less at this point.

[Bait O' Eggs]

My turn,

I hope this isnt about egos that dont allow for sharing moderator roles. This town isnt big enough for the both of us attitude would disappoint me. I wish we knew what was going on, but since I doubt we will get the story behind the story all we can do is post on what we assume or have seen here. Maybe it is none of our business. But since this is a discussion board, I guess we will discuss it.

I have mixed feelings about both RT and Stew. I will start with Stew as the new sheriff in town.

I have not met Stew, but from his past post he seems like a straight up guy. As another member of ifish I wouldnt mind fishing with him and getting to know him. As a moderator I dont know yet. His post yesterday trying to get Hey_yall to stand in a straight line under the Angie thread concerning releasing fish was out of line in my opinion. But I stress "just in my opinion". I guess Stew has to let people know he is the new sheriff at some point. I dont know if Stew will let people be themselves or try to make them all a clone of someting few of us want to be. I guess I still remember how Angie first came on this board and I have looked at her web site. I dont see her being the saint some are trying to make her out to be. Maybe somebody is thinking with there wrong head. Some people can be really great people but as a "boss" they leave a lot to be desired. Only time will tell if Stew has the makings to keep this board something people want to frequent. I wish him luck, and hope he can find how to walk the line between moderator and good guy. I dont think he has gotten off to a very good start, but I will wait to judge him. Best of luck to Stew from the bottom of my heart.

Now for the legend, RT. The man is a genious on one hand and I am not sure what on the other. RT has made me a better fisherman and for that I will always be greatful. His way of looking at fishing is different than mine. RT is the eternal experimentor and has led me to really change my fishing style. Just yesterday I was trying a mixture of brake fluid and power steering fluid as a bait scent. (For those interested it didnt produce images/icons/tongue.gif ) Tomorrow maybe a different recipe. If it wasnt for RT I would still be fishing a straight up prawn for springers until it fell off the hook, then put another one on just like the last. I change my technique on a regular basis now if I am not producing fish. As a moderator I would give him a B+ maybe A- rating. I dont know anybody who would get a higher rating. He has put his foot down when he has to to stop a deteriorated thread. But for the most part he understands how "guys" talk when they are fishing. And yes this is mostly a guys board, for better or worse. And whether everybody agrees with this, when people are posting on this board they are in effect still on the water in one way or another. This is an extension of my fishing, and I want to treat it like I treat my fishing. I am glad the swearing is not allowed. But to get upset over the sexual inuendoes(sp) and playing on words is out of line. This is the internet, if you want in the G rated section, you may need another medium. We cannot put our head in the sand and think we are still not on the beach. RT has been a master of making interesting post and developing the personallity this board has taken on. I have fished with RT one time and I left thinking he was as organized as a soup sandwich. Maybe I had him too high on a pedistal and needed to realize he is just human. Maybe he was having a bad day. Time will tell, we will fish again, everybody gets more than one data point before I judge them to much.

His past post discussing how many vicoden he had to take after a hard night drinking to make it fishing would be what knocked RT out of the A+ rating. I havent got much use for drugs or abuse of drugs. Vicoden is a prescription pharmaseutical(sp) and was never intended to be a crutch for getting thru life, and its mistakes. I guess my personal beliefs on drugs and a drug abuse doesnt leave me much tolerance for those that play that game. Maybe I miss judged the post and the intent with the vicoden.

I hope RT stays on as moderator. Without him I perdict a drastic different enviroment. One I would not like to frequent as much.

Best of luck to Jen, I am sure she currently has a lot of stress in her life. Change is difficult for most people to deal with. May she do what allows for her peace.

My words of wisdon to Jen is dont step on the little guys who helped get you to where you are. I have been here for a year, and RT's post today are like what I saw a year ago. Nothing has changed in RT from my perspective.

Best of luck to Jen, RT and Stew. images/icons/smile.gif

[Master Baiter]

I am not going to play favorite to anyone individual here out of mutual respect for all Ifish members. But here is $.02 from my perspective:

I must have missed something recently, because I thought RT has shown GOOD TACT when dealing with situations that were beginning to elevate to personal levels. Most often it seems that RT stepped in and RESPECTFULLY reminded folks to maintain composure and more often than not those individuals would CORDIALLY oblige.

As long as posts do not contain X-rated vulgarity or UNJUSTFIED threats and flaming, then freedom of speech should prevail.

RT, I hope resolution is reached and the UNITY of this BB is MAINTAINED. You are the reason I found this site and your contribution of knowledge and PERSONALITY adds something to this BB that the others do not have! I have lurked some of the others and this is the only one that cruise regularly because I really like the ATMOSPHERE here and I hope it does not change too drastically.

I appreciate all CONTRIBUTERS of IFISH!

Thank You

Thomas

[AuntyM]

Kids should not be unsupervised on a BB or anywhere else. If the tone of someones post bothers a parent, leave the site! Common sense dictates it. It's like changing the channel! Censorship should be done in the home. Computers seem to be replacing televisions as babysitters.

As for this topic being a mans subject and the notion that they have a tendency to be crude, I know far more crude women than I do men....I have all the email jokes to prove it. (worst offender is a 75 year old lady!) Further more, I would rather any man be himself in my presence, than have him be uncomfortable and a phony. My skin just isn't that thin.

While it IS Jen's sight and she has a right to do with it as she pleases, I am sure she wants it to remain popular. If all of the humour is removed, and our speech is restricted here, it will cease it's popularity....at least with me and those I know. RT NEVER offended me.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>AuntyM steps down off soap box....NEXT! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Osprey]

After thinking about this for a while,I've got some more input.

First of all everyone has benefited from Rt knowledge and that of other members who post a lot,
Most of the anti Rt post I've read (on this thread)are from guys with a dozen or so post,You Guys haven't contributed SQUAT to the discussions so IMHO you have no room to comment now.

I understand Steve's feeling here and I stand behind him,we've had our moments too,but he's always been straight up to me.

Some say I live on the EDGE...But I like the View from here images/icons/grin.gif

A lot of you wannsbes (so called fisherman)
careful what you wish for....you just might get you're wish.

When the real contributors leave I guess the rest of you can discuss......recipes images/icons/tongue.gif .....Os

There isn't one person here who can say they haven't benifited from this BB.....that might change

[ 03-23-2001: Message edited by: Osprey ]

[Nanook]

Osprey - I just decided I really like you(no, not that way LOL) after reading your last post! Here here! images/icons/grin.gif

[Jennie@ifish]

Hokey dokey here!
Just got back from fishing the Wilson... No fish! But I did find my contact lens! YAY!
The problems that have come to a head are not at all post subject and content related. They are due to letters RT has emailed to clients of ifish that are offensive and non proffesional.
The last straw was a strict confidentiality issue that was entrusted in his hands. He chose not to keep it, thus putting valuable information and someones job in jeapordy.
We did have disagreements about posts but that is not at all the issue at hand.
I don't want or feel the need to mud sling.
RT worked very hard on the board and contributed many wonderful ideas here. He has done alot for ifish and it's members.
It's hard, however, to respect and work with a man when people e mail me copies of letters that he has written that speak very poorly of me.
I continue to hold my head high, and to remember my Mothers voice.
"Jennie, rise above it!"
And I will.....

What's for supper?
Jen

[Oakie Drifter]

To quote Hey_Yall: . Steve, a celebrity said these words "I don't trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesn't die." I know I wouldn't either because if you come up on a wounded animal, you can't trust it either.

RT, so how Im I supposed to respect this kind of statement? This is your friend, does your wife know you talk like this?

[DanS]

Hey Capt. Fish Hook,

You've made 13 posts, one of which was that last weak attempt. What a wealth of information you are images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Now that this site will be suitable for viewing by the kiddies, maybe you guys can ask THEM what the best way to fish for springers is.

Hey, Jen, if you're not loking to sling mud, then maybe you should keep the dirty laundry behind the scenes.

[Deleted User]

Dans....you are right, my kids and I dont have alot of tips and information on how to catch springers or any other fish. I didnt know that was a prerequisite to being a participant on this BB.
If you had your way, no one could benefit here unless they know as much or more than you and tell all. So, lets see, I guess my kids or myself cant benefit here cause they dont know enough about fishing. GREAT IDEA! images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[smilesforu]

We all like to know why things happen and the circumstances around them so we can judge for ourselves. Bottom line is this is Jens site and she can do as she pleases. We can also do as we please. I am sorry to see the differences arise between them. I am not here to run this site or bash the others that are here to share or learn. We have all been there before and probably will again. With a site of this size it is hard to keep everybody happy....impossible. Time to cut bait...Jen don't make cauliflower...I hate that stuff. I believe Rt was a major part in the great sucess you have experienced here. He will be irreplaceable on the time and energy he put in to make this place better... Duh. You gave him the tools but he used them. Glad I don't have to walk in your shoes. Good luck to both of you in your future efforts.
Tight Lines

[DanS]

CFH,

The point was, why is it that those that contribute the least are now the ones complaining the most? Sure you and your kids can benefit, but WHO benefits from you being here? Not me.

You sit around soaking up all the info that some people are nice enough to divulge, then pounce on them for not posting "clean" enough info. Well, too bad. I KNOW how to fish. I'm willing to share info. But, if I have to put up with looking over my shoulder every time I post, then I'll just take my info and tips and share them with folks on the river instead. They've never said, "thanks for the float/jig tips.....but next time could you explain it without the vulgar language or off-color jokes?" Yeah, right. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[ 03-23-2001: Message edited by: DanS ]

[Deleted User]

I would have much rather not seen all this dragged out into the public where it did not belong. Steve was wrong for bringing it up here and Jennie was wrong for explaining what the issue was "really" about.

Here's what should have happened: Steve discovers that he and Jennie can no longer work together and he gives up his Moderator title with a simple "a difference of opinion has made it necessary for me to step down from my position as Moderator, and I look forward to contributing as a regular member in the future". Jennie then thanks Steve for "helping make the iFish forums what they are today and supports BigStew as he takes on more responsibility".

What has happened instead is disgraceful for the both of you, and should have never been allowed to be taken this far. You two are both professional people in pseudo high-profile positions amongst the Internet-capable Northwest fishing community, and should have acted as such. If Jennie and Steve are to part professional ways, then do it PROFESSIONALLY and not smear each other regardless whether what you are saying is true or not. And if Steve is to create his own website, then all the better the competition to make us stronger.

You two should both be ashamed of yourselves for this whole scene.

[Jennie@ifish]

I, for one, am very ashamed.
I tried, all night long last night not to post, but I am human and it finally got to me.
I honestly, and with all my heart wrote the post as a good will notion towards Bigstew for being the dirty word cop, as he calls it!
I was floored by RTs response and stayed up all night.
I am very, very sorry that this came out in public.
If I didn't post, I was guilty... If I did, I was guilty. I couldn't win, and I won't with this post either.
I feel I was put in a very awkward position, and then I failed to be strong enough to ignore it.
I will now take one long, long break from the board.
Go ahead, bash away... Have fun.
I honestly tried to make a nice thing here with ifish. I worked hard at it.
Jen

[Salmonator]

All you guys telling people that you've contributed more crack me up. Take away all the posts with the words duct tape and emus and see what you have left puhleeease. Dan S, if only half of my posts had anything to do with boats or fishing i'd still have almost twice as many as your total. So I guess my opinion means everything and yours don't mean squat. http://gltdr.org/forums/graphics/emoticons/bigteeth.gif

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Salmonator, I think you were missing DanS point. All the arm-chair Martha Stewarts seem to be the ones complaining, and if they have only 12 or 13 posts, then they haven't been around long enough to really get what goes on here as far as the joking around, etc. And he said, which I believe too, is these people complain about those that contribute will be hurting when the real fishermen leave. -nuff said.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Actually Okie Drifter, you weren't necassarily quoting me, you were re-quoting the celebrity that I quoted. And if you can't find the humor in that quote...then nevermind images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[dogfishboy]

Jen, do what's in your best interest and best for your mental and physical well being. That must come first. images/icons/smile.gif

RT, A change of pace might be in the cards for a short time. Only for a short time though, we still want your input. "Ifish Forum Guide" or "chromer" we can still communicate about a subject that is important to all of us. Speaking of fishing, more fishin' folks and less useless lip flapping and key pounding! images/icons/grin.gif I mean it! images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/smile.gif

My best to both of you, images/icons/smile.gif
David

[Salmonator]

I saw his point.

[fishlessinoregon]

There's some good one liners in here, anyone mind if I use them at the local comedy club?

[Fountainhead]

I stumbled upon this site a month or so ago, following a link that RT left on another board, I have mistakenly thought this was RT's site. Bummer things had to devolve to this state. This is the best disscusion board on fishing around here, I thought RT's posts added alot to it. Hope everything works out and that there are'nt too many hard feelings. F

[Spooled]

All you kids reading this, click this link. Bye, Bye www.disney.com (http://www.disney.com) images/icons/grin.gif

[Timber Man]

Salmonator how childish."MY DOGS BIGGER THEN YOUR DOG" Just because you have more posts images/icons/rolleyes.gif Dan S. was trying to make a point that evidently flew right over your head.If someone is in here gathering information but not giving out any then what gives them the right to say"stop all the foul language but keep giving out info"what a ******* joke.

I tried to stay out of this but some of you really **** ME OFF...TM images/icons/mad.gif


And yes Salmonator that last sentence was intended for YOU http://gltdr.org/forums/graphics/emoticons/bigteeth.gif

[ 03-23-2001: Message edited by: Timber Man ]

[DanS]

Hey Sal,

I'm glad 'yall and TM are here to clarify things. I thought my point was clear, but evidently you missed it.

But at least you posted more times than me on this thread. I guess that means you're in the lead, right? images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[Roeboat]

I just want to say I have found RT to be a great fun read with a great sense of humour and a lot of good insights. If he ceases to be a moderator on this board he will sorely be missed. The board will lose a large part of its' soul.

[Salmonator]

Captain Hook made the point that is going over ALL OF YOUR HEADS. Jennies site, don't like it the way she wants it DON'T POST HERE. You think that because a few of you post some informative stuff you have the right to say what you what when you want. Who's the child? Don't flatter yourself by thinking i'm bothered that your ******.
My last post on the subject, I shouldn't have even started... Joe

[RJ]

I agree with Roeboat

[DanS]

Gee, Joe, I think your last sentence sums it up.

Don't like conflict......then don't go looking for one.

I think Steve has done an outstanding job of providing content for this site, which is what this site is all about.

In regards to his conflict with Jen, I know nothing so I profess to know nothing and figure they can work it out between themselves. But I'll be damned if I'm going to listen to some cracker badmouth Steve because his "style" isn't suitable for a 6-year-old to read. If Jen wants to, that's her choice as operator/owner of IFish. If anyone else wants to take a shot at Steve, they can plant their lips right here -&gt; (!) .

I'm through with this images/icons/mad.gif

I hope fishing is good tomorrow..........

[ZaQ]

This all sounds quite familiar. Steve, I feel your pain. Let's go fishing sometime soon! images/icons/mad.gif

[letsfish]

Well so much has been said and the thread has kinda changed.
Jen and RT have had a problem-they both don't feel good about it. But decisions have to be made and consquenses realized and accepted.Enough said about that.
Most posts on this thread have related to subject content, or presentation.I feel like others that you should (and need to) communicate with a recognition of who you expecting to read your post.
Now if you want to scream "free speech" and think you have a right to tell somebody your words of wisdom anyway you want....Remember you may have a right BUT it may not be right.We are so spoiled with all are rights that we forget to put others before oursevles.Think of it this way:
You are in Jennies house at a party. A party with a lot of people, some you don't care for , but to enjoy the party you withhold that joke you just heard. And that guy that is such a dork, well he can be a dork just not in YOUR boat. UH -OH now you are feeling it you just gotta put your two cents in these people are such dittslebrains !! But you wisely walk out of the house and take a breather. You [B]find another guy who is mutually ticked off at some guest and share your woes.But return to the party cuase you don't want to miss out on some of that breaking fishing news or one of Old Carp's fishing tales.
LET'S REMEMBER WE ARE IN JENNIE'S HOUSE, AND WE CAN BE CONSIDERATE ENOUGH TO RESPECT HER WISHES ON HOW WE PHRASE THINGS, AND WHAT WE CHOOSE TO SPEAK ABOUT.
Thanks for wading through my river of opinion......Jim

[Fuzzybutt & Angel]

Well said Letsfish images/icons/smile.gif

I haven't got alot to add to this except,
Stop flogging the horse everyone! Its dead, lets all just bury it, and move on I pray this will all be resolved soon.

Angel

[ZaQ]

At last check, we don't pay for this site. And much like the radio you don't pay for, turn it off if you don't like it.

Cliche? Maybe, but it applies.

[Steelheader69]

images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif tsk tsk tsk tsk.....

Well, I wanted to refrain from posting on this thread, but I was raised to stand up for what you believe, so here goes. Plus, everyone who knows me knows I like to defend my point....

Now, I have no beefs towards Steve or Jen (though most of you feel I hate Jen because of previous posts of mine over censorship but it's not true). I respect Jennie, she's running a site in her fashion. I'll admit, it's HER sight and she has all the right to do with it what she wants. She entrusted RT to help her with these chores. Did he do his job???? I'd definitely say yes. I will say personally that if RT wasn't here, this board wouldn't even be NEAR what it is today. I only came here because I met Steve on Bob's BB. Hence, I liked what I saw here and I brought more people. It's the dominoe effect. Word of mouth is your best advertisement (and it's your worst enemy also). I moderated a slightly bigger BB over on Prodigy a few years back. It's a job I gave up for same reason, conflict with site administrater (he didn't own the site, prodigy did, but he oversaw all that went on there). It went the way of the dinosaurs because of tension in the ranks. I'm afraid this will soon follow. What's worse is this is Jen's baby, and she'll have to see it die. Maybe this could be for the best. She wants a TRUE FAMILY SITE, and most of us who were born poor redneck fisherman have different values then some on here do.

Now in defense of my last statement. I was raised poor. I fished with some great fisherman who taught me my craft. Did they talk like RT? Yes. Did they say rude jokes in front of a young 8 year old steelheader? Yes. Am I scarred for life? NO!!!!! It seems, that more and more of these "fisherman/women" that come on here are either 1. very new to sport and are acting borderline dainty or 2. have been taught silver spoon fishing: fresh, clean, and lifeless. I for one have fished with RT, Os quite a few times, and some others on this board. They are reel fisherman (I'm sorry to tell you Salmonater, but Dan is quite the fisherman and a great guy to spend a day with). To bash everyone to defend your stance in sense (I've had more quality posts then you) is a crock. Hell, I only post on threads that either concern me, or I feel I can help with. I could post on alot of others also, but I figure if I'm not wholeheartedly in it, it's not worth posting. That's why I get irritated when something is deleted of mine. I don't post for the hell of it usually. I post from the heart (whether it's my fun part or my desire part).

I would say that RT is the life of this site. If he leaves, the site leaves. Plain and simple. To say this is a family sight is completely wrong. Why in the WORLD would ANYONE purposely put their kids in front of a computer????????? School work maybe but this!?!?!?!? What are you people doing? The TV isn't enough, so why not the computer too? Hell, you only have 1, maybe 2 channels on cable that are bad, you have MILLIONS on here. Don't think cyberblock is 100% either. It can be overridden. I only get on this computer when 1. my kids are in bed 2. my kids are with their monster (oops I mean mother) or grandparents 3. when i'm stuck in house due to my bad back and the kids want to play outside. When they're with me and want to be with me (of course when the neighborhood kids want to play Daddy just doesn't always fit the playbill) I spend time with THEM away from damned computer. If there's fish pictures to show them on here, great. But if you want to TEACH your kids to fish. Take what you learn here and show them on the river/lake/salt. I just can't believe how these 20 post people are trying to dictate how the rest of us should view this board. I wonder if by chance these are aliases for those too afraid to stand up under their own monikers????? I remember Wiggle Wart posting on here to slam on me, yet had no email and was a 1 time poster. Kinda funny isn't it? This is already such a one dimensional, user hidden device as it is. Then some have to hide behind aliases so they don't seem "rude". Man, why do I feel I'm at work and dealing with the very few customers who are great at hiding behind a phone. But put them one on one and they clam up big time. I am who I AM. I am the same on here as I am in public. Those of you who have met me and fished with me know this. I am a smartass. I can tell a good joke (dirtier the better). Those of you out there that are trying to "protect your kids" should grow up. Where did you grow up yourselves? You're not protecting, you're harming them more then any of us could ever. What are you going to do when you're not around? They'll be defenseless. I know this first hand. My brother was "protected by my mom" and he has never been able to make it in the real world. I have worked with a few kids in my job who were in same boat. Some homeschooled, some just overprotected by their parents. Guess what??? You put them in any confrontational situation and they'll clam up. I'm not saying grab a .45 and start shooting either. You have to know your limitations. Actually, lately most of these kids who shoot at school aren't taught respect (which those of us with "loose morals" were shown with rod of discipline growing up. We've earned our right to the "ugly" jokes/language, yet we know how to respect others). We respect those who give respect. Throw mud you get mud back.

The Vicadin issue. images/icons/rolleyes.gif It was a joke. But, you know, there are ALOT of us who HAVE to deal with life through those pills. It's either take the painkillers and be able to LIVE alittle, or sit in pain (in my case immense pain). I can completely understand not wanting people to abuse drugs. Been there, done that, don't care to see it myself either.....

Well, I don't know what else to say. There were WAY too many posts to keep track of who said what. There were quite a few I wanted to respond to but I didn't feel like writing up a list with names. But, those of you who feel that this board is just Jen's, think about it. This is a community, and we all "live" in this community. Yes, Jen owns the development, but if none of us came around, it would be dead. Most of us that are active members are here because of RT. None of us know as much as ALL of us. To lose a contributor who knows alot about a subject is a big loss. I know alot of people who were quick to tell me to "pack my bags and leave". Well, I've been a successful steelhead/salmon fisherman since I was around 7. I've been on all spectrums successfully (from plunking, to plugs, jigs, all the way up to flyfishing). I know whitewater catarafts with a true love of the sport. I have expertise that I can share that alot don't have in above situations. Plus, I have the pictures to prove my successes, not just WORDS.

I'd hate to see downfall of this site, I enjoy coming here, but I'd say with Steve gone, I'd say alot will leave (I would be one). Off color humor is what makes Steve and this board a place I like to frequent. I'll have to agree with Marty that there are tons of boards that would love to have RT be their moderator. It's not a "we want a sexist, vulgar, slamming BB". We want a place where we can be OURSELVES. I don't want to hear about "go start your own site" BS. That's just a lame excuse for those who really have nothing worthwhile to use in defense of themselves. I'll close also with this. This is Jenny's party as someone had said. BUT!!!!!!!!!!! Each thread is a private group of people talking. If in one of the "groups" someone is telling a dirty joke do you 1. stand in and listen if you don't like it or 2. walk away? Chances are you'd walk away. When a thread is posted you can either click to view, or click to leave it. It's called self governing. It's called being an adult and censoring yourself.

Enough said. RT should stay as moderator if he's willing to take it back on. Being a moderator is also the same as a dictator I'm afraid to tell you. Unless you've actually been one you wouldn't know. You run things the way you want (because being a moderator you've been entrusted to do so) and you keep your job until the boss reprimands you or fires you. As much as I hate to say it maybe RT should do what he said and free float. Will be a BIG loss to this site. I'll follow RT, just like a good majority of others will.

So be it......

[smilesforu]

We all like to know why things happen and the circumstances around them so we can judge for ourselves. Bottom line is this is Jens site and she can do as she pleases. We can also do as we please. I am sorry to see the differences arise between them. I am not here to run this site or bash the others that are here to share or learn. We have all been there before and probably will again. With a site of this size it is hard to keep everybody happy....impossible. Time to cut bait...Jen don't make cauliflower...I hate that stuff. I believe Rt was a major part in the great sucess you have experienced here. He will be irreplaceable on the time and energy he put in to make this place better... Duh. You gave him the tools but he used them. Glad I don't have to walk in your shoes. Good luck to both of you in your future efforts.
Tight Lines

[Fishhead]

To whom it may concern, I cant believe what I'm seeing here. Regis and Kathy Lee had a good thing going and now look what happened they let Kathy Lee go and the gal they got to replace her(Kelly Ripa) just sits there and smiles. I thought that those two(Regis and Kathy Lee) had the best thing going ( if you like that kind of programing). Jen and RT that has a ring to it. You two are what made this whole thing go. Sweet and sour, ying and yang, hot and cold, black and white, its all the same. I hope you two can come to a happy medium and bring us ifisher persons the kind of quality web site this has been known to be. I find it hard to give up things that I really like. So I try harder to hold on to them. Thats all I think I need to say, lets hope things can be worked out. Good luck.........Fishhead Vic images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[ 03-24-2001: Message edited by: Fishhead ]

[Osprey]

This has become an EGO thing (hey_yall called this one right......for once )

Freedom of speech is the issue here ,I work with people I don't agree with and say things behind their back to.
It's the person who forwarded to you that's worse than the Guy who sent it images/icons/tongue.gif

there is always gonna be diferences of opinions,thats what makes us individuals....when we all start to think the same,thats when things get SCARY

I hope to may advertising dollars don't leave along with the "E-mail-Minions"

.............Moderate this...........Yall

[ 03-23-2001: Message edited by: Osprey ]

[Jeffhead]

I to have learned a tremedous amount from Steve during his time as Moderator on ifish, this date back to my first post which was on the old discussion board. I asked a question about ramps on the Willamette and got a 2 page rundown, man was I impressed!!!
The way the situation is today is just like work, Jen's the boss and wants to have the slant of the board be a certain way. RT wants to be able to be himself and if the 2 can't agree on where the middle ground is then it's probably time to part ways. We all change jobs due to differences that cannot be resolved. RT will be greatly missed as being the moderator, but we will still see and hear from him as a poster. RT, I know you feel relieved. BigStew, good luck you have some big shoes to fill. Jen, ifish will live, but it will not be the same. My .02
Good luck and tight lines, Jeff images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif

[Trick]

I hope you all realize by allowing this thread to continue you all are playing a part in destroying what we have left. Jennie and RT have problems and they have worked out their arrangements. Nothing you can say is going to change what has occured. This isn't worth any of us getting involved over. I don't really think with the, semilimited information we have, that any of us deserve to have an intelligent opinion about the situation at hand.

RT has agreed to continue to share with us and to remain a "brother" on this board. Don't continue to drive the stake through the center of Ifish's heart. Time heals all wounds and this will happen if we stop bickering about it.

I've said things on this board that I regret and I've offended fellow posters. I've truly tried to restrain myself since the Angie thread occured and I'm trying to keep my posting to fishing only, in hopes that this board can survive in some compacity. I've learned so much here about the sport and I have 25 years of fishing experience, growing up on the coast, to share with everyone here. I want to continue to share and recieve information with all of you.

One more point I will bring up. I work 50+ hours a week, while raising three young sons. I don't get out nearly as much as I used to fishing and hunting. I live through all of you at this point in my life and it's a way for me to feel "connected" to the sport, even though I can't truly be right now. I've always said how much I appreciate all of you for allowing me to do this. That's a big Thank You to everyone from the guy with thousands of posts down to the guy with the one "recipe post". I truly appreciate it all.

Lets move beyond this. Is there any other way?

[CAGEY]

In reading all of the posts regarding RT and Jen, its quite apparent that some members of the board like RT and some like Jen. I have not been a member of this board for a long period of time but i know one thing, i like all of the cooperation and interesting information that i get from it. I guess Jen owns the site so she should be the final word on how the site is run however if others are helping then they should have input on what the members can do and cannot do but the final decision rides with the boss.I have never met RT or Jen. I have had the pleasure of contact via e-mail with Jen and she has always been willing to help with my questions. I have had the pleasure of Rt responding to one of my posts which i appreciated very much. Soooooooo i will just stay on the sidelines and hope it all gets settled quick and lets get on with it. I do so enjoy the humor on the site but dont beleave its a place to get to raw.

[HOGTIDE]

Well, lets see...first of all, I totally agree with Fishhead...and I think Cagey is wrong. I believe far and away that the patrons of this board admire both RT and Jen, alike. I think it's hard for us to accept an extremely sudden change, such as this. We simply keep trying to rationalize a change that none of us like.

As I stated before, RT's 'personality' is the board that I know and am accustomed to. I'm not braggin' ...but, hell...I don't need any fishin' advice or tech reports; been clubbin' those slippery devils on the floorboards for over 30 years now. I'll just miss the guy. Kinda grew to like the big doof...even when we disagreed.

[corrirod]

Wow, I finally got thru the entire thread. I'll try to recount some of the points discussed.

"This is a family site."--Since when? Do people really send their children to this website? Is that because their parents can't read? I guess I thought it was my responsibility to come to the site and find new methods to TEACH my children. Call me selfish but I want my kids to learn from me. If content is the issue than maybe the kids should stay on Jen's homepage and stay away from the board.

"It's Jennie's board and she can do what she wants."--Correct, however the recent popularity of the site was caused by RT. If Jen wants him gone, he's got to go but I hope she realizes it will be at the expense of the board. The board is the most successful part of this whole Ifish world. If RT leaves, 90% of the valuable content will go with him.

"I suggest RT and all his email cronies go get their own website,"--Be careful what you ask for. The content of this board will be so boring Jen won't stand a chance of getting any sponsors to help pay for it.

"I don't want to be sheriff of this BB we are all adults."--a quote from Bigstew, you know, the new moderator.

"I would say that RT is the life of this site. If he leaves, the site leaves. Plain and simple."--Need we say more.

"With a site of this size it is hard to keep everybody happy....impossible."--You are exactly correct but the majority of users on this site are the ones this decision will make unhappy so is it worth it..only Jen can decide that but one post put it very well, "What's worse is this is Jen's baby, and she'll have to see it die."

Why don't we do a test? Let's have Jen make a "kid friendly" BB, and an RT board and see which one gets more posts.

Unfortunately, at this point, these posts probably mean nothing because the damage has already been done. I wish no bad omens on Jennie's site, however the content I desire is expressed by RT so I'll be awaiting the new location of his posts.

Good luck Jen.

[DF]

My opinion on the " family site " thing. I saw some of the things that were said. Certain foul language. BUT!! you here faaaaarrrr worse on T.V EVERY DAY! or in a movie. Heck I think I have even herd the word damn on the Disney Channel... Whats the dif. If the parents dont like thier kids reading it. Then dont let them. Simple as that. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[FishinMission]

O.K....so here's my opinion...and nobody cares anyway. Most of us that are here on the BB already know how to catch fish. Some of us may hold unlimited respect for RT's knowledge and abilities...and they've been demonstrated. But ya know what?? I keep going back to the stuff that's worked for me, and always will. I may not be "The Great Fish Killer/Catcher"...but I do O.K....well enough to keep me going out there. I think most of you all take fishing too seriously. Myself.....I'm out there to have a good time first and foremost!! A fish is just a bonus. Some of you will say you're outta here. Personally, I think this is a great site...and will continue spending too much time here. For those of you that wanna leave....go ahead...I won't miss you at all. I never liked the people bashing, and comments that led to people geting their feelings hurt, and when people leave....I pretty much feel it'll be those who people-bashed and caused hurt feelings. This site would be much better without them. I hope Jen can continue on with this site...because it's the best site I know for exchanging reports, and constructive information. Why not just keep it at that??

[Steelheader69]

This message is for Fishinmission, and anyone who thinks similar to him. This is not a slam to you or a name call. It's an explanation. You had stated that "Some of you take fishing too seriously". Well, to some of us this is a sport, not a hobby. Our wealth of information and the amounts of fish we catch are due to ourselves trying to be the best at our sport. Of course you can stick to your tried and true, it's human nature. But, alot of us experiment, then become acustomed to a technique and know when to use it. We learn little tricks because of our desire to succeed. But what you don't know at the same time is we also get our relaxation doing this. I'd have to say most of us who are serious fishermen/women are/were serious hunters also. If you're not commited to what you're doing then you don't get the fish/deer that we "serious" sportsmen do. I have logs that tell me when the peak times on rivers I fish for which species. We're not armchair fisherman, we are true sportsmen. We're the ones who tie our own flies, build our own jigs, build our own spinners, can build our own rods (but probably not as well as TH images/icons/tongue.gif ), and do most of the things that most "occasional" sportsman buy at outlandish prices. Is there anything wrong with this? HELL NO!!!!! I'd rather be a fishaholic then a workaholic. Taking pride in our sport and trying to be the best at it is not wrong. It's usually the "it's only a relaxation sport" are the ones who catch Kings that are really wild steelhead. The ones who spook a hole because they come clambering through inconsiderately. They're the ones who feel that they pay their price for a punchcard that they're on the same level as everyone who's put their time on the water. I posted this so that everyone could read it. I know a few people on here, and most of them are the same way as I am. We don't use guides, we don't need them. Of course you get quicker info on a river you've never fished by using one. But half the fun is discovering a "hot hole" for yourself. Learning the river yourself. This way you've truly DESERVED to fish the hole (not saying that it's exclusive). I almost feel that the internet is the lazyman's trial and error. You probe long enough and you get all the info you need without doing it yourself. I for one am a serious fisherman, and damned proud of it. And to say "if they leave good riddance" is crazy. No matter what, 10 very experienced fisherman can give you alot more info then 10 who have none.

I realize that this whole scenerio that has happened is personal between RT and Jen. You can't judge either unless you had all the facts (which supposedly isn't RT's style of posting). All I'll say it's Jen's board, so she has final say. Whereever the road goes from here is in fates hands.............

[Tanner]

Just got back from a slow (1 fish ) day on the Nestucca and I started reading this thread.. Here is my buck 2.95.

#1 Jen and RT were both Way wrong for bringing their dirty laundry on the board.

#2 If RT leaves as moderator it will not be the end of the world. There are plenty of very good fisherman here with lots of good ideas.

#3 You guys sound like a bunch of kids arguing over who's dad is the toughest.

#4 Slim Shady and M & M practice the right to free speech. Do you think that is what our forefathers intended? I don't think so!!!

#5 THIS IS JEN"S BABY!!!!!!! We need to respect that. Like my dad told me when I was 17 "If ya can't live with the rules leave".

#6 I do, however find it interesting that many of the NEWBIES are the ones complaing the most.

#7 We all have one very important thing in common, we are addicted to fishing. Let's do more talking about fishing and less auditioning for daytime T.V.

SEE YA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


[ 03-24-2001: Message edited by: Tanner ]

[ 03-24-2001: Message edited by: Tanner ]

[kingofbacklash]

Jen and RT:
Your the best! Thanks for providing a wonderful BB. RT I will always look at your good points,which are many. Jen this goes for you as well, you both have given so much to this BB. May God bless your lives. You will be in my prayers.
This statement I'm about to make is not directed at anyone, it's just a statement. You can take it or leave it, I'm moved to print it.

As in life we all have free will which gives us the choice to do good or to do evil. Free will is what has gotten mankind into the state of mind in which we now live together. We have the free will to choose our direction in life. We each have to make our personal choice. Which will it be this is up to each one of us to decide. It is not easy to live for others, but in doing so one finds rewards that are more priceless then gold it's self. The value that one receives from being thoughtful of others is enternal and unchanging once done. The feelings one gets when you do something good for others is invisible but very real. If we choose a good viewpoint of thought, then goodness can be present. To think of others first is always the path towards goodness. Once a energy is created it will always be in motion, even if unseen.

May God bless all fellow ifisher's.
fearsnofish

[CAGEY]

Iam so new to this board that i cannot say anything bad about either person in this situation. I know i just really enjoy being able to get on the computer and look at the wealth of information that is available. I have seen some positive things and some negative things. I have never met RT or Jen. I have had the pleasure of email contact with Jen and have always found her to be helpful. I just hope everything works out for the best in the future. Just call me a no vote on this one, and good luck to both of you.

[Deleted User]

Re: Trail of e-mail documented proof/summary of the facts behind this sitution.

Resolution: A rightful posted reply to the inaccuracies directed at me (RT) by Ifish Administrator Jennie. Hopeful end of subject and on with fishing and fun. Or if this post is deleted or my monkier banned, legal libel recourse and exposure of the pertinent documents as a matter of public court record, as well as copies of the above documents e-mailed to several prominent Ifish BB members.

Reason: To rightfully defend my wrongfully compromised credibility prior to publication of my book with the words Reel Truth in the title. ...

I've been away from the BB for 3 days up here in Seattle and just got on the hotel night manager's computer in the wee hours of Monday morning to read some very nice supportive comments about me; that I appreciate very much! Those are nice words of wisdom you posted Kingofbacklash. Since we are humans and not saints they can only be nice goals.

Inaccuracies here need to be addressed. Since I posted Thursday night that I was going to step away to ascertain if I could continue in my role here without undue criticism from Jennie, and left out of town early Friday, the Ifish Administrator has claimed falsely that "the problem is totally unrelated to the style of his posts", in the 'Good morning Ifish people' thread. And within this thread stated that I have sent out letters critical of a couple Ifish ad clients. First, you all have read Jennie's recent posts in her threads about BB content; both plaintive and mandative. Before and since that, I have received many e-mails from her about her being upset with my BB post contents and that they were becoming essentially increasingly bothersome. This is the primary reason for what has happened; contrary to her claims otherwise. It's right in the 'trail of e-mail'. She then claimed her reaction of removing me as moderator after I stepped away publicly was caused by my letters to a couple of Ifish ad clients. Those were letters by me to them in response to actions they took detrimental to me. Jennie is completely aware of this and likely has the same 'trail of e-mail' as proof. They are dated long prior to this event! As for any broken confidentiality she claims against me I will state that none was completely breached nor explicitly agreed to! There are e-mail records depicting what occured there also. ...

Let there be no misunderstanding, this was indeed about BB content; which is her right as owner. But it is my right to have the truth known! If she can accept that and move on, the rest of Ifish can move on. If not, you will get the correct info via e-mail and court records open to the public. ...

For you great members here, am I so sorry that it had to come to this. I want it to go away as much as anyone, but not with me wrongly damaged. Thanks for you patience and understanding. - RT

[Capin' Dan]

Seeing as how we are giving opioions. this board will never be the same again. It was by joint effort that it has been as successful as it has I was the 38 th member to join and have read RT's post from the beginning. I have not always agreed with them but his heart is in the right place. Jen same goes for you. You two please work this out and come to an agreement there are thousands that stand to benefit from it. Maybe get some counseling and work through it. If this was an issue related directly to fish I know you would come to an agreement to benefit the fishery. Come to think of it this does have to deal with the fish. Oregon will be a better place to fish in the future if you two can work this out together you have built this board and clientele. and together you should continue. STOP THE BASHING NOW BEFORE ITS TO LATE. and find a mediator and talk this through.

IFISH rules.
Dan! images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif

[Deleted User]

Thanks for your input Dan. There is no bashing in the direct post above; just stating that Jennie has the right to do what she wants as owner of this site, accept posting mistruths about me. Make a copy of the above thread; I think you may re-read it later and see that it put a fair end to this situation. The Ifish BB will go on however Jennie wants it run. I just want the truth rightfully known. And to be able to post occassionally to friends here while posting my fishing information elsewhere. - RT

[Pilar]

All the words wasted and no one gets to the point.

Lets try again.......

RT, You're one of the good guys, I'll see you on the river sometime buddy.

Attention all whiners, Read Martha Stewart's "Living" or whatever and

images/icons/mad.gif DONT POST HERE!!! images/icons/mad.gif


The bend is your friend!

There, that'll fix it. The trouble with using just a few words is that people are required to think about what you are trying to say.

[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: Pilar ]

[Timber Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>All the words wasted and no one gets to the point.
RT, I'll see you on the river sometime buddy.

DONT POST HERE!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Is this a threat Pilar???

[OR Coast Range]

Are you kidding TM? I can't tell.

I don't know Pilar personaly, but judging from his previous posts I don't think he was implying a threat. I think he just wants all the bickering to stop.

[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: Oregon Fish Chaser ]

[Pilar]

Yes please, can't we just all get along? I was not clear in my previous post.

I would be proud to fish next to RT on any river, anywhere, anytime. He could make any off color comment he wanted to and we could compare our 4 letter vocabularies. All that without the moronic (moral) majority of political correctness frowning down on us from thier ivory tower.

images/icons/confused.gif IS THAT CLEAR OR WHAT???? images/icons/confused.gif

The bend is your friend!

images/icons/mad.gif If you hate this thread as I do, don't post on it. images/icons/mad.gif

[Osprey]

images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif
......you decide,I can't believe how childess this is....somone needs a time out here......get over it and get on with it.....otherwise....

[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: Osprey ]

[OR Coast Range]

I saw your post Os. I agree that somebody is getting fast and furious with the delete key. Your post had no vulgarities, you were just expressing your opinion. That was a very clear case of censorship.

[Deleted User]

OFC, the bickering has stopped. My post last night wasn't to 'get the last word' it was to set the record straight. I'm sorry you didn't like the demeanor in my response Pilar. I appologize to you and any other members it offended. I posted that in the middle of the night in anger after reading the inaccuracies posted while I'm out of town here. Put yourself in my position and consider the totally unfair circumstances I was put in. You were put in a position of unfairly being verbally attacked on the Clackamas recently and you posted a long explaination to the whole incident. You were angry and vented. Your vent caused a near physical confrontation with public Ifish representation. I bet if you had it to do over again w/o the anger present you would have posted somewhat differently. After getting up to head out on the town up here and rereading what I posted during the night I wish I could have found less affrontive sounding words. But there was at least accurate info that should put an end to the "bickering". I'm just going to take a walk and try to forget the whole unfortunate thing. - RT

[Buddy Page]

I really hate to post to this thread, but here I go. I generally avoid getting entangled in public discussions like this. I don't post much, but I read this board a lot, even when I don't have time to fish. This board is a valuable resource and a lot of people value it for various reasons.

I have a few things to add from my humble point of view:

A: - To Jenny - Please continue to try and strike a balance between your desire to run a clean cut site and the free speech rights of your target marketplace. They are mostly men who fish for salmon and steelhead and as such are a bunch of "rugged individualists", not your run of the mill "family member". When you run a site for such people you have to expect some rough edges. Personally, I think you've done a good job. I always cringe when anything gets deleted from a public forum but sometimes its justified. Keep up the good work and keep free speech in mind.

B: - To RT - When you agreed to help Jenny manage this site, you took on an extra level of reponsibility. You aren't just another user of this service, you're in a management position. As anyone who's managed people or provided a public service can tell you, that makes you different. Whether you like it or not it's your *responsibility* to think before you say something and to consider who you might be offending *as a representative of your business*. Your personal views have to be balanced with your *responsibilties* to the business. Act like a manager and not like a customer when you're on the BB. If that's not possible, then become a customer and not a manager. You can't be both. Either way, your fishing knowledge is greatly appreciated. Some of your other posts are wholly inappropriate for a *manager* of a public service though, regardless of your personal views. Hope this helps...

[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: Buddy Page ]

[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: Buddy Page ]

[Deleted User]

BP, I just happen to be on here in Seattle right now and caught your post. What you have said is likely correct and sound advice. However, you may have missed that before I left town Friday I posted exactly what you have suggested; that I don't want the difficult position of moderating this particular BB any longer. I said I just want to be like the rest of you guys. Thanks for your proper words. I have to get off here now or my family is going to yank me off the hotel computer with people watching images/icons/smile.gif . - RT

[Buddy Page]

One last suggestion to Jenny and RT. Make an agreement to disagree, for now. Also, agree that both of you won't make any more posts on this subject. Keep it off the board for the benefit of the board. Agree to go to your corners, take off the gloves and think about it for a week or two. A little cooling off period should help both of you think clearly.

Good luck...

[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: Buddy Page ]

[Osprey]

I noticed the new header on the board
"The IFISH Community"

some please define "community" to me images/icons/mad.gif
Doesn't that we all have input and opions?
images/icons/rolleyes.gif


images/icons/tongue.gif

I'm not telling anyone how to run their business.......BUT you set the rules.....

Quote from a not so famous Redneck......
anytime you have to deal with something that has wheels or breasts....it's gonna cause you major problems.......moderate (censorship)away

[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: Osprey ]

[jawbreaker]

Os, you must be a c cup, or are you a double D? images/icons/grin.gif

our community is a group of people with a common interest (fish) that are passionate about their interest but don't always agree
on the politics....scratch that, never agree
on the politics. Despite that fact, I still
think that the one common interest that we all have (fish) will bring us back together.

Hey, if we didn't disagree on anything, there
would be nothing to talk about. Except fish.
images/icons/wink.gif

[Osprey]

I must be a "B" ....I'm perfet ,petite,and easy to handle....... images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[DanS]

Os, petite? Let's just say that my son described him to my wife as "a big bear with a hat". Sounded pretty accurate to me..... images/icons/grin.gif

[Tanner]

O's has some Kahuna's too. I heard that he is planning on riding his cataraft down the north slope of Mt. Olympia... YYYYEEEEE HHHHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! images/icons/grin.gif

[Osprey]

Sorry Tanner The Mrs. said I have to leave my Kahunas at home......."Jeez Hun the other Boys get to bring theirs" images/icons/rolleyes.gif ....Os

[Osprey]

To all those Concerned,
My post was not deleted....I just forgot where I posted it images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif
I guess Ore.Fish Chaser did too......Did I have a liquid lunch today images/icons/wink.gif ...naaaaaa,but I'm headed that way............Os

[OR Coast Range]

Yea, I saw that too. I feel like an ass after my post to TM above. Oh well. No more posts on this thread for me. (self imposed censorship images/icons/blush.gif )

[jawbreaker]

Hey os, before you gulp down another liquid
sandwich, you need to go back down to victoria secrets and upgrade a couple of sizes. Your cutting off the circulation. images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[Osprey]

NAAAA ...........it gives me Cleavage images/icons/rolleyes.gif .......I heard Springers dig it.........Os

[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: Osprey ]

[Jennie@ifish]

OK, I think everyone has had there share of opinions, no? I am now going to close the thread. Seems like that is what everyone wants, so I will do it.
RT, of COURSE we have had differences in posting style opinions. We spoke about that last week. You said you would start posting those wonderful, thoughtful tech posts like you used to. What happened to that?
Of course some of this is due to differences in posting styles.
That just isn't the straw that broke the camels back.
I am not going to post any more on this topic. I want to get back to fishing and if you don't agree, then just e mail about it, OK?
Thank you all for your patience, people.
Now go fish!
Jen
images/icons/cool.gif

[Timber Man]

Had a flat tire last week and forgot to put my jack back in my truck. As O's was driving home from work he seen me on the side of the road with a flat. I walk up to his rig and ask if he has a jack to lift my truck he says"no...But let me see what I can do"he gets out grabs the front bumper and lifts my truck up so I can change the flat images/icons/tongue.gif To answer the question O's petite....NOT!!! images/icons/wink.gif images/icons/wink.gif

[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: Timber Man ]