Electrolysis and crab pots

[MoJet Driver]

We've all heard about the usage of sacrificial anodes to keep the bad vibes in check when it comes to our boats and downriggers (when it comes to catching fish), but has anybody heard of this theory as it applies to crab pots? I'm talking about the heavier sport models up to the commercial rigs.

I was told that the cross bars should be bare so they ground out on the bottom. If this is true, I will need to remove some of the insulation on this Protoco pot I just aquired.

Disclaimer: Don't beat me up too bad if I got the electrical conduction theory screwed up or used wrong terminology. I'm definitely not a physicist or an engineer.

[Bait O' Eggs]

MOJet - you touched on a subject I have no facts to back up, just field observations. I strongly believe in electroysis in crab pots repelling crabs. I have not heard of the cross bars being bare would ground it out theory though. The commercial pots have some exposed bars across the bottom center of the pots. It is up inside of the pots an inch or so and would not make contact unless the pots settled in the sand a little.

I have some pots that just flat catch about 4 to 1 more crabs than other pots. I have flagged a couple pots that I dont even take unless I need the numbers of pots for a large crew day. (anybody wanna buy a couple cheap pot http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif ). My dad had 3 protoco pots that just flat wouldnt catch any crabs. 2 of them were in fairly bad shape with a lot of the blue rubber coating missing and one had no breaks in the rubber coating. For a while I thought it was the rubber coating they use. I had a protoco pot for a while that did as well as my innertube wrapped pots. so go figure.

I have a buddy whos family is in the commercial crabbing business. He tells me they only use the innertube wrapped pots because the protoco type coating wont hold up very long and they feel they catch more crabs in the innertube ones. When I go to garibaldi and look at the commercial pots, they are all innertube wrapped. I know they spend a lot of time in the off season rewrapping these pots with additional rubber. He tells me some of them have up to 3 layers of rubber trying to keep the steel from being exposed. They do have the big cross weights exposed, never thought of it as grounding. hmmmmm.......

I have played with the slope of the ramp on pots entry doors and think that has a lot to do with a good pot. Some of the pots for sale have too steep of a slope for the crabs to enter effectively I believe. I like a flatter slope crab door, and more doors has to better. I have some 4 door pots and an 8 door pot. I cannot say the 8 door pot has been the machine I hoped it would be, but I havent had it in the water but a hand full of times.

The best pot I ever had was a danileson trap I found. I had a couple other danielsons that werent worth owning. Once the rubber coating breaks, they rust out pretty fast. The way they break down is nice when storage is a problem on a boat. No kidding, I one time dropped 6 pots and pull them 1 hour later. Got 8 legal crabs and 7 were in the one lucky Danilesons, an hour later the exact same results, an hour later I got 7 legals and 6 were in the danielsons. That pot would just flat bring em in. I left it by itself one day for a couple hours and somebody took it. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif I am sure they thought it was lost, but I was testing some different water. NEVER LEAVE A POT ALONE IT WILL GET TAKEN, people think they are lost. At the same time I had an old time commercial crabber tell me the reason the commercial boys dont use square pots is because the crabs cannot make a 90 degree corner in there sideways walk very easy. They will come to the corner of a square pot and keep on going unless they want in the pot real bad. A crab can do the sideways walk in a cirlce and stay with the pot until they find a door. Not sure if that is true, but may explain partially why pots are round, they would stack better and build easier if they were square. ???

After all that babbling, I think it is like plugs, some catch fish, some dont. They are all effective to a degree, but why waste time with a substandard producer. I may not understand why some pots dont work as well as others, but find the good ones and ditch the bad ones.

I will be doing some more field testing on Saturday. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif BBQ crab next week.

[fishbait]

I have a friend that was given a large crab trap because his friend never caught with it. One time at his cabin in Tillamook, the son of one of his friends who was a commerical crabber was there and he took a compass, measured the pot and said that the pot was hot. Says he has acutally seen pots kind of glow in the dark as he was pulling them. IF you want to e-mail me I will give you my firends name and phone and you can talk to him about thios and how to measure your pots.

Bait-O Eggs, what do you know about this?

I absolutely believe that these things can and do have an effect on how well our gear fishes at times.

[Pilar]

Hey Mojet. As far as I know the main problem with electrolysis comes from having different types of material in contact. If you used stainless and carbon steel for instance. The salt water acts as an electrolyte and current (a small amount) flows between the two materials. This erodes one and plates the other. If the materials are very different IE: Aluminum and any iron based material, it eats away at the aluminum. Zinc is more vulnerable as it has a even higher electric potential. So the zinc becomes the anode and goes away instead of the expensive aluminum.

The thing I have always wondered about is what kind of electric potential is generated by the steel in the crab pot. Ocean critters have different sensors than we do. These include the lateral line on the side of most fishes, pits on the nose of a sturgeon or shark, barbells on catfish and sturgeon. They sense sonic and subsonic pressure waves and electric fields. Sharks in particular use these electric fields to locate prey. Salmon use them to locate schooling bait fish.

Do the crabs sense an electric potential, a field, when they approach the crab pot? I believe that they do and that is why most crab pots are grounded by bare metal. This dissipates the field or at least reduces it in strength. Refined metal is pretty rare in nature as it corrodes immediately. So the electric field surrounding your crab pot is unnatural.

Good question MoJet, food for thought.......

The bend is your friend!

[Bait O' Eggs]

how did he test it with a compass fishhead, oops I mean fishbait. Was it a compass you draw a circle with or was it a north bearing compass? Pots that glow in the dark?? was he crabbing near trojan? a little to far up the river maybe for good crabbing.

Did he also have a forked stick for finding water?

I gotta hear more about this, shoot me his name and number.

[Gone Fishin]

Man, Roy!

Now I know why you brought those traps by....

I'm on my way to Garibaldi Marine to see if they have some zinc plate that bolt on these crab traps...

Oh crap, I hope they don't laugh! http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BTW, I thought when you said "Marty, I guarantee these are the hottest traps you can use..." I thought you meant they were good!

Remind me Roy, when you come down to fish with me to give you the plugs I have for you!!!

[WaterDog]

I love it. We can over analyze anything. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

It is interesting though.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Marty - didnt you read the fine print? http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I basically gave you the same type of guarantee all guides give when asked if the customer can be guaranteed a fish.

I guarantee the pots will sink to the bottom of the bay. I guarantee they will stay put if not put in to much current. I guarantee they may catch a crab.

Of course all of that is dependant upon, proper use and excludes all abuse, misuse and normal wear and tear. Always wear proper eye protection. Misuse of this product may cause death or serious injury. This product is not to be used by unsupervised minors.

Now keep those HOT pots away from my corner of the bay! I plan on catching a few crab.

[Deleted User]

Those pots from Protoco should be fine. The gentleman that owns the company bought the business from my father who was a one-man show, and they make sure that the pots are gounded properly.

I don't recall how exactly, but I'll talk to him tonight.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Fishbait - I have been cleared of all charges, it was some guy belonging to a prominent NW fishing organization that confessed to the sin, .... figures. My wife was in shock when I told her about your habits. She cannot believe you hand out candy at the park with the theory of being nice to the little girls they will grow up some day.


On a serious note:

Fobbman - I wouldnt mind talking to you and/or your father about grounding crab pots. I see your in Milwaukie also, I will drop you an email, maybe we can get together one of these days.

[MoJet Driver]

Near as I can tell, the jury is still out. Bait O' Eggs and Pilar have presented their cases. Now we have to wait on 'fobbman' for the defense!

The tension is building and is Marty still looking for anodes(?)... What next?

This is better than Survivor! Who is going to get voted out? And who is sitting on the Tribal Council? Will Danielson win the million $?

"The sea will bring every man hope as sleep will bring dreams"

[StreamSide]

Now I figured out why my good buddy JET gave me that mombo crab pot! 3'dia. 1+" rebar in the bottom and about 60lb. The only think I've got with it is a sore back! It don't catch squat! I've had several different types of pots and traps. I think the danileson's are by far the most productive of any! And by far the most cost effective - being I have had way to may taken and or lost. I saw one guy run over the rope on one and he take his knife to it. I did get it back thought! with knots! BTY - Danilson has redesigned there doors using plastic as a hinge - MUCH BETER http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

John

We be crabben this weekend http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by StreamSide (edited 02-22-2001).]

[davef]

I heard those *hot pots* where made from steel that had been re-cycled from the Hanford site.

[fishbait]

Bait o Eggs,

Fish head!!! oh well

I will e-mail you the persons phone number. By the way, how did that little problem at the school work out. i want you to know that I believe you did not do those things to that little boy.
Your firiend,
Fishbait

[Biteme]

I have been working on building the better crab trap for many years. some worked very well some didnt work at all. One that I thougt would be the ultimate trap actually scared everything away from it. It was made out of all stainless steel scraps that I had picked up, I think it must have been some sort of special alloy that turned into a big battery when in contact with salt water. As far as square or round goes I have several square traps and slip rings that I have built out of rebar and stainless welding wire that work outstanding. In all of my experiments I have found that in traps the biggest two factors in the effectiveness of the trap are doors that function well and placement of the bait. I have several of the cheap colapsable traps and the doors like to foul with seaweed which allows the crabs to come and go as they please. I actually tie a piece of mono fishing line across the inside of the trap just above the doors so that it cant open more than 90 degrees and it acts as a bumper to make sure the door closes. The bait needs to be far enough away from the doors to make sure that the crabs have to come all of the way into the trap to get at it. If your bait is able to hang out the doors most of the crabs will just sit in the door or outside and chew on it and promptly leave when they feel the trap move.

I also built a monster 3ft by 1ft square trap once but made the gaps in the netting just a touch to small. the first time we put it out it worked a little to well. It took three of us to get it up to the boat. so I think that there is an optimum size for people without a crane or davit (bigger is not always better)

this next year looks to be a great crabbing year with all of the crabs staying in the bays and the commercial guys not being able to get at them.

[PeterMac]

Hey Biteme,

I like your optomistic outlook on next years crabbing outlook http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I am curious if you could explain it a little more? What is keeping the crab in the bays.... The low fresh water, or something else?

Thanks!
PeterMac

[Deleted User]

I've sent an email to my dad in hopes that he answers it before my folks go for a weekend at the coast. Hopefully he'll see it in the midst of the flood of **** spam he gets.

Never...I repeat, NEVER...go into your parents Internet bookmarks. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Bait O' Eggs]

To funny Fobb, were they moms or dad ??? http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

or did you not ask.

[Deleted User]

After posting the above post I realized that he may NEVER see the email so I called him instead. Here's what he told me:

He started making the classic innertube-wrapped ones with rebar, but soon discovered that rebar is pretty brittle and had a habit of splintering during the bend process as well as rebar has a tendency to conduct electricity better than normal round bar. During the refining process he came up with the powder-coat idea, which he had done by Protoco. Before he sent it to Protoco he would take some stainless wire and wrap it a few times in the vicinity of one of the tunnels. When the pot came back he'd trim it of excess dip and then splice the stainless wire that he was wrapping with to the grounding wire and start wrapping.

Once demand exceded what his battered body could supply he ended up selling the process and existing customers to Protoco. He went down there and trained a half-dozen of their workers on the finer points of wiring a tight pot (which to this day they still do an EXCELLENT tight job compared to the rest) and the rest is history.

Now if they are STILL grounding them that way, we don't know. Haven't looked at their pots lately, but the way they were doing it worked the best from testing.

If you think that your pot isn't grounded properly, there are two ways to ground it yourself. The first way is to wrap some Zinc on the wire to ground it out. The other way would be to take a hacksaw and cut the dip to the bar and wrap some stainless wire on there and then connect that to the rest of the wire. That should work with rubber-wrapped ones as well, but know that you will need to do something to keep the sucker from unravelling on ya.

Hope that helps everyone.

[Pilar]

Ok Mojet, I'll bite. Whose quote?, it's a beauty!!

The bend is your friend!

[MoJet Driver]

Fobbman,

Thanks for the info. Personally I found it very useful.

Pilar,

The quote came up from Sean Connery in the Hunt for Red October. He said it came from Christopher Columbus but it could have been something made up in Hollywood! Still it's kinda catchy huh(!)?

[Bait O' Eggs]

Thanks for the info Fobbman

I think I understood what you were trying to explain. I dont know if there is a right and a wrong, or a better or a worse. We hold our jaw fishing the way we were last time we got a bite, because it must have been right. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I always lived by the school of thought you didnt want the stainless wire to touch any of the steel frame work. The dissimiliar materials is what caused the electolysis is what I was always told. I have built a hand full of crab traps and take great care to make sure none of the stainless wire is touching anything but the rubber. On the few pots I have made, I like the idea of the crab doors having ramps that are part of the framework like Protoco does. Some of the pots for sale have a crab door that is tied all with wire (no frame)and has some stretching wires across the middle of the pot to hold the doors in place. Most commercials are made this way. When I use a framework and weld the crab doors in place I end up welding a piece of stainless across the top of the door that is welded to the frame for the door flappers to pivot on. This is putting two dissimiliar material together. The stainless wire touches this stainless piece across the top of the door which is welded to the frame, maybe that is grounding it and I wasnt aware of it.

The whole thing intriques me. And Protoco does stretch there wire tight.

And fishbait I will put my compass on my pots tonight like you described to see if they will glow in the dark. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif