Synthetic oil in outboards?

[foxer]

Was thinking about this the other day. Most outboards spend their running time at half to full throttle. I would think that a synthetic would be beneficial. Anyone running sythetic in their 4 stroke? My Suzuki spec's 10w-40.

[ICHTHYDEMON]

Mobil 1 10w-30 in my F150 and T8.

[hot wire]

I have to agree, Mobil 1 10w-30.....all my Honda's ever see.:bowdown: The best place to buy the oil in 6-packs is that place that starts with a C and end with an O. Price was 28.99/case of 6.

[Chrome Bumper]

Boat engines yes, they work hard, cars, no. You want to break them in on petroleum oil unless the manual says otherwise.

[wetaline]

I've spoken with two seperate Honda Mechanics regarding my 225 and my 8hp and they've both told me not to use synthetic - just to use 10/30.....

[BassinFever]

I've spoken with two seperate Honda Mechanics regarding my 225 and my 8hp and they've both told me not to use synthetic - just to use 10/30.....

And there business is??????????????????????????????

Use a synthetic, your engine will love you for it.

[wetaline]

I'm not a mechanic - nor do I play one on TV. These guys are both Honda outboard mechanics. Just passing on what they told me when I asked if I should switch to synthetic.... Neither of them knew each other - seperate question about 1 year apart. I'm all for doing whatever will give my engines the longest life. Have you guys been told synthetics are best?

[Critr Gitr]

I ran a Penzoil mix this year - switching to yami's newer oil - I've always been concerned about the lack of residual lube in the top of the valve train after the engine has sat for a while - I've heard that the synthetics had an issue in that had a tendency to run off the valve train in cars unless used regularly - but then what do I know - can't go wrong with
Yamalube 4-M FC-WÂ in yami engines .. or so one would think :shrug:

[bronc]

i started useing snthetic oil in my sportjet an i noticed i dont get the power out of it as i did useing striat petroleum oil.

[boutdoorhunter]

Check out this link and be your own judge.
http://www.thebestoil.com/marine.asp
If you need help let me know.

[BassinFever]

I`ve used Amsoil products for over 30 years and I have been nothing but satisfied . They are now making an FWC (Fourstroke Water Cooled), rated oil for four stroke outboards and inboards.

Amsoil has a bad rep for it`s marketing plan, but there products speak for themselves.

[RiverMan]

This might be a little off topic since we are talking about boat motors but did you guys ever see the test that Consumer Reports did on the different motor oils? They did the test with taxi cars. All of the motors were new and each was given a different type of oil which included sythetics. Some were maintentanced regularly and others not so regular. At the end of the test they disassembled the motors and compared wear of the various internals parts. What did they find?

Virtually no difference whatsoever in any of the oils!! The cheapest oils on the market worked just as well as the most expensive synthetics. Keep in mind this is on taxi's too that are constantly on a stop and go routine. Granted a car motor probably isn't getting the treatment that outboards are but it has to make you wonder if the more spendy oils are worth the money.

RM

[boutdoorhunter]

Ive torn my own motors down and trust me there is a difference in motor oils. Not sure about your test. Any oil should work well as long as maintained properly. But there are differences.

[lucky2]

Riverman,
I've read that info from cosumer reports also. Very interesting. My own experience suggests that their information is very accurate.

Bottom Line: Maintain your engines and they will last (as long as the motor oil you use has the proper API rating) Synthetic or conventional won't make a difference

[ICHTHYDEMON]

This might be a little off topic since we are talking about boat motors but did you guys ever see the test that Consumer Reports did on the different motor oils? They did the test with taxi cars. All of the motors were new and each was given a different type of oil which included sythetics. Some were maintentanced regularly and others not so regular. At the end of the test they disassembled the motors and compared wear of the various internals parts. What did they find?

Virtually no difference whatsoever in any of the oils!! The cheapest oils on the market worked just as well as the most expensive synthetics. Keep in mind this is on taxi's too that are constantly on a stop and go routine. Granted a car motor probably isn't getting the treatment that outboards are but it has to make you wonder if the more spendy oils are worth the money.

RM

NY taxis rarely get shut down,they pretty much run 24 hr a day.

An engine running at full operating temps is pretty easy on oil.

Lets see the same test done,where the cars get treated like all our cars do. They get started and driven to work,they sit all day and get started again. If the trip to work is short they don't get up to operating temps either way.

Lets hook up a boat or trailer behind the taxi and tow it 50 miles to go fishing.

The Consumer reports was a decent test,but IMO it didn't replicate real life.

Most people can get away with conventional oil if they stick to the 3000 mile change thats been drilled into our head. If you run synthetics at change at 3000 miles,then yes its an absolute waste of money,heck even conventional at 3000 miles is typically a waste of money.

If you run synthetics and do a UOA (used oil analysis) you'll see that synthetics will infact go much further than 3000 miles. With a quality synthetic 10K miles isn't that difficult to achieve,and more than likely the oil will still have life in it at that point.

[BassinFever]

I`ve been somewhat of an "OIL FREAK" for about 30+ years. ICHTHYDEMON`s explination is VERY accurate. I run synthetics in about everything that moves but I understand there strengths and weakness`s. The weakness`s are easy, They last longer than we will beleive in! If however you intend to extend your normal drain intervals you have to know your engine and that it`s not deluting your oil with fuel which four stroke outboards have a habit of doing. Therefore you are better to change at recommended intervals. Why use a synthetic in your four stroke outboard then?

Easier cold starting
Less deposits
Smoother running
slightly better fuel consumption

They only hold a small amount of oil anyway so why not?

Your 2 stroke engins will benifit the most by using a synthetic.

Much cleaner running: Fewer spark plug changes
Smoother running
Slightly better performance
Much less smoking
Engines remain very clean with very minimal carbon buildup.

The best place to use a synthetic is in the lower unit, I have proven this to many on larger engines from 90 HP on up and have witnessed on many occations an increase of up to 300 RPM at WOT. The boat I have now, a Bass boat with a merc 150, I had to change props after changing over the engine and the lower unit oil because I actually did get a 300 RPM increase.

I have never had any failures with any Amsoil synthetics I have ever used.

Sounds like an Amsoil commercial, yes I`m a dealer but I only buy for freinds and family at my cost and am not saying all of this to sell oil hear. (Matter of fact, I won`t), I just want people to know that it`s a tried and proven product. Penzoil products are OK also.

[lucky2]

If you run synthetics and do a UOA (used oil analysis) you'll see that synthetics will infact go much further than 3000 miles. With a quality synthetic 10K miles isn't that difficult to achieve,and more than likely the oil will still have life in it at that point.

The main reason for an oil change is to remove the dirt that accumulates in the oil from combustion by products.
Synthetic oil still gets just as dirty as conventional oil, so I personally would not recommend a 10,000 mile oil change no matter what kind of oil you run.

[ICHTHYDEMON]

The main reason for an oil change is to remove the dirt that accumulates in the oil from combustion by products.
Synthetic oil still gets just as dirty as conventional oil, so I personally would not recommend a 10,000 mile oil change no matter what kind of oil you run.

Thats why you run the UOA. It'll tell you EXACTLY whats in the oil,and how much life is left. No guessing involved.

[lucky2]

Who do you get to do the UOA?

[ICHTHYDEMON]

Who do you get to do the UOA?


I use Blackstone Labs

[boutdoorhunter]

:agree: Yeah what Bassin says (Cept for Penz) Ideal to family and friends also. The 2 stroke oil is just increadible. but I have synthetic in every thing as well. Boat, car,truck,tranys,weedeator,leafblower, lawnmower,chainsaw only wish I could get it into my back:laugh:

[RiverMan]

Well I am not a mechanic guys so explain this one to me. I had a Snapper Lawn Mower for 20 years and never changed the oil on it once!! I finally gave it away to a guy that uses spare parts because everything else on it had warn out.....the catcher, the starter etc. No kidding, never changed it one time but replaced wheels, cables, switches, you name it, but never the oil, lol. All I did was add in a little once a month or so when it got down, lol.

RM

[BassinFever]

a $200.00 Lawnmower engine will generally outlast the mower deck with little or no maintenance, but try that with your $6-$15,000 four stroke outboard and you are going to be sorry in a hurry.

[Ethical hunter]

Sounds like a win/win situation. My boat gets oil and no fossilized critters had to be used to do it.

EH

[timinthegorge]

New 115 4stroke, and '03 9.9 4stroke, both have had the merc synthetic added last summer. It seems to be workin' well..... :)

[BalouSC]

The argument of oil getting dirty is only partially valid. I run Amsoil in my truck and car and everything else I own. The vehicles get a filter change ever 5,000 miles and an oil change every 10,000 miles, everything else gets changed once a year. I run the best filters money can buy (Donaldson) which also happen to cost $7 less than the Wix you buy at Napa. Also, if you look at how much I spend on oil in a year using Amsoil and compare it to what I spent running conventional you would see that I am saving quite a bit of money in a year. I beat the tar out of my YFZ450 and it will not break. If you change your oil every 3,000 miles you are fine though. Balou

[VanDaddy]

The Consumer Reports Article was from 1996. I remember it because at the time I was an engineer working in the lubricants industry. The test was conducted on “20 popular motor oils”, however only two of them where true Synthetics – Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Performax. Also, the article claimed a Valvoline semi-synthetic was tested; however that product was not on the market at the time the test was started, thus creating some controversy on the validity of the study. Furthermore, some of those cabs dropped out of the test due to mechanical problems not related to motor oil further limiting the sample size.

As mentioned in a post above, taxis are usually started only once per day, racking up lots of miles with few cold starts. One of the best features and benefits of synthetic oils are molecular bonding of the lubricant to metal. Thus on cold starts you have instant protection compared to having to wait for the oil pump to circulate oil to all components to provide the only lubrication as in conventional oil. NY cabs are not a good application to study this feature.

The article also admitted the Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Performax the scored the highest in the laboratory portion of the test looking at low and high temperature performance tests.

This article is often referenced, but seems to be rarely read and scrutinized.

Just my 2 cents.

[xtratoy]

Not sure of differences in outboards, but I use Redline synthetic in the Harley and it runs cooler and quieter. A little bit better on MPG too.

[Blue Seaduction]

Hey, lucky2 are you still running two strokes on that Hewes Raft ? :laugh:

[ICHTHYDEMON]

This article is often referenced, but seems to be rarely read and scrutinized.



Thats exactly my point,the CR article is ALWAYS brought up when someone is against synthetics. All people see is the bottom line where CR says they can't see a difference.

If people actually researched their choice of oil instead of relying on a friend of a friend of a guy that was a shadetree machanic 30 years ago,they'd probably see that synthetics do indeed offer more than conventional oils do.

If people then want to choose conventional go right ahead. Don't base your decision on one article or opinion.

[Roperguy]

Is there any negatives to running synthetic? I too have two Hondas (90/15) and I have heard not to run syn but WHY NOT. Anyone have bad experience with synthetics?
ps.where can I find AMSOIL gearlube?

[ICHTHYDEMON]

Is there any negatives to running synthetic? I too have two Hondas (90/15) and I have heard not to run syn but WHY NOT. Anyone have bad experience with synthetics?
ps.where can I find AMSOIL gearlube?


The only negative is the price,the higher price is typically offset by the length of time you can run synthetics.


GI Joes carries most of Amsoils products.

[Lepper]

What do you think about switching to a synthetic after about 4-500 hours on the outboard? good idea? or will one be asking for trouble?


dave

[Okie]

Regardless of the type of oil used, I have never known anyone who actually wore out a outboard engine. They will last and last and last regardless of the type of oil. It's just that they need lubricating. The engine is usually misused in some way and is there fore declared worn out, which isn't the same as actually wearing the engine out from actual use.


Good Luck

[BassinFever]

Regardless of the type of oil used, I have never known anyone who actually wore out a outboard engine. They will last and last and last regardless of the type of oil. It's just that they need lubricating. The engine is usually misused in some way and is there fore declared worn out, which isn't the same as actually wearing the engine out from actual use.


Good Luck

This statement is very true, but The main reason I use a synthetic in my engines, especially two strokes is the clenliness, lack of smoke and smoother operation. You simply are not going to have ring packing problems ever if you keep the engine tuned properly.

I have changed several outboards over to synthetic that had God knows how many hours on them and all that happened is that they ran better and better.

[lucky2]

Hey, lucky2 are you still running two strokes on that Hewes Raft ? :laugh:

Yup, but they don't seem to be using any oil or making any smoke??:shrug:

BTW, what happened to your kicker? Did it fall in the river?:yay:

[Blue Seaduction]

That, dam Santa Dude didn't bring it. Now I have to go buy it ! :shrug:

[lucky2]

Scott,
What kinda oil you using in that yammie?

[fishhog54]

You are right on the money. I have used the same brand for over 35 years and have naver had a problem. In fact the last time I had my 15 year old Yamaha 115 hp in for inspection the dealer remarked how clean it was. (Pennzoil Synthetic)

[fishhog54]

Pennzoil Performax is one of the best. Believe me I know.

[fishhog54]

Switch away.

[fishhog54]

Bassin has no idea what he is talking about.

[fishhog54]

Pennzoil Synthetic ranks right at the top.

[Moldy45]

how about the penz blended?

[MattPark]

Found this on another forum. Apparantly all of these oils are identical and come from the same refinery. I'll try to find the MSDS for each. I've heard of the Pennzoil not being a synthetic before I came across this. You guys that use it have any opinion?

Pennzoil Premium Outdoor/Multipurpose 2-cycle TCW-3
Pennzoil MARINE Premium Plus 2-cycle (TC-W3)
Pennzoil 2-cycle Oil for Air-Cooled Engines
Quaker State TC-W3 2-cycle Motor oil
Quaker State ITASCA Premium Low Smoke 2-Cycle Engine oil
Quaker State Small Engine Universal 2-cycle Engine oil
Quaker State HD 2-cycle Motor Oil
Quaker State Motorcycle 2-cycle Engine Oil
Super Tech Universal 2-cycle Oil (Wal-Mart brand)
NAUTILUS 2-cycle Outboard Marine Oil (TC-W3) - Note: This is a Shell product and is IDENTICAL to the ones above
Pennzoil MARINE Synthetic Outboard 2-cycle Engine Oil ** This is labeled synthetic but it is identical in makeup as the others.