Gill nets in my backyard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pilar]

I was called last night by a cohort who spends a few more hours on the Columbia than I do. As he sat in the spot yesterday he watched 3 net boats pillage the Kelley Point area. This is a shame because the fishing has been red hot there all week. Many fish over 50" caught since Monday. The larger fish are gathering for the smelt run.

I wonder how long it will take the fishery to recover. Also I wonder where the netters boats are. Fire is mother natures way of cleaning up a messy situation.

The bend is your friend!

[Barnyard]

Don't it just frost ya....After a day or two there'll be nothing but shorts.....

[Barnyard]

P.S. John check your email...

[Pilar]

Yeah Barn, with no tails. Lets buy a WWII surplus U-boat and start sinking these @sshole$. Any one want to volunteer for crew. After we clear out the river we'll head off shore and take care of the foriegn strip miners too.

The bend is your friend!

[Bait O' Eggs]

Pilar
Aye Aye Captain Pilar - call me a swabby. Can I man the guns, or do I have to scrub decks. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Osprey]

I'm in ntoo after were done wrecking Havoc on the Columbia we can head up the Chehalis and really clean up the place http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
....Man the Topedoes......Os

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Row quietly and fish a Cataraft
Release all Wild Fish!!-----<'))>><

"Just Say No To Sovereign Nations!"

Ban All Nets!!!

[fishbait]

I have to tell you this story, Many years my now wife and I visited my cousin who lived in Federal way. He spends summers commercial fishing in Alaska and had brought the baot down to do some work on it. We were out taking a joy ride for the afternoon, and motoring down one of the channels way out in front of us was a gill nett boat with its net strung almost across the entire channel. My cousin said that pretty soon the gill netter would start waving to us to go arround his net and that we were to just wave back and pretend to sight see. He ran his boat, it think it was 40-50 ft very close to the net and then backed down rather aggressively and finally went arround. Nedless to say that the gill netter had some choice words for us. It was great fun....
Fishbait

[Clamman]

Tail cutting is a farce.

Explain this to me; Why would a commercial fisherman cut a tail off a fish to keep it out of the sport legal slot, when in affect it prolongs the period before it becomes commercially legal? In a business sense it doesn't compute.


ISG

[_LIPPEE]

Are you talking about slitting the tail? Or cutting completly off. Either way don't they get checked by officals or from the buyers.!!!

[Clamman]

Lippee,

To answer your questions.....completely off and yes on the other two.

[Pilar]

What boat are you netting from ISG? How dare you defend the gill netters on this sportfishing forum!!! Keep your anonymity it may save your life.

'Splain to me why I catch 10 - 20 fish a year that have been mutilated in this way? Who gives a f*** who is doing it?

Fact is I catch more fish mutilated by gill nets than I do DWF tagged fish. You know, piece of net embedded in hide or hideous crosshatch pattern scarred into the hide.

So go ahead and practice denial if you will. I suggest you join a 12 step program and get well my brother.

The bend is your friend!

[Beer Waggin]

I'll assume the answer to my question is YES. I'll be sure to take some pictures of the first tailless fish I catch.

[finclipped]

Isn't it possible these tails are being cut off by sportsman, or propellers? Not that it doesn't happen, but ISG is right. There is no motivation to cut a tail by the commercials. With the capacity to completely destroy the resource, commercials nets will always catch their allotment. Why do they need to cut tails?

I know many who believe a 42" sturgeon is too small to keep, but they simply release the smaller fish; not cut their tails. If you wait until the fish hits 45" the fillets are significantly larger.




[This message has been edited by finclipped (edited 01-19-2001).]

[Jellyhead]

Tail cut-offs are real! I caught two in one day at tounge point last year. Both were undersized fish. Both wounds had been healed.

OK, now think about how a gillnet works and how a sturgeon is shaped. It's easier to pull a sturgeon through the net rather than try and back a net out around the gill plates. The commercial guys just push the little guys through, then rather than risk damage to the mesh by trying to pull a tail through it, they cut off the tail. Bye-Bye fishey.

I might be wrong, but this was how it was explained to me.

Aaron

[Clamman]

Pilar,

Hope that threat on my life was an emotional knee-jerk reaction because that sort of attitude has no place on this board. If you had ever bothered to read and comprehend my past posts, you would have learned that I am neither pro-sport or pro-commercial. If anything I am extremely pro-fish (i.e. would be perfectly happy with no harvest if that was best for the fish). What you haphazardly label denial is ironic at best. I just happen to be in a position to have more knowledge on these topics than you.

Finclipped,

Glad to see you can read and comprehend what I posted, and understand good business economics.

Jellyhead,

Maybe a little more clarification would help, but I think this is answers your comment.
The majority of the fish are not pushed through, they are indeed backed out since the diameter of the head is smaller than the diameter of the body. The tail is the least of their worries, it is the most flexible and has the least diameter.


ISG



[This message has been edited by Ifish Special Guest (edited 01-19-2001).]

[Hookset]

ISG,

Could you explain the two sturgeon with missing tails that Jellyhead found? Have you ever seen or heard this explanation before with releasing gill net caught fish?

Since your here, what is the ODFW and WDFW official stance on commercial gill netting for sturgeon? Since there are commercial seasons, they have to help regulate the fishery, but that doesn't mean this helps this fishery in anyway, shape or form.

Since the departments budget depends on dollars raised through fishing license and tag sales, doesn't sport fisherman and guides provide more revenue for the departments then Columbia commercial fisherman?

And if not just for the departments, we all know the sporties do contribute more to the economy then comercial fisherman.

You also mentioned you are for the fish and not pro-sport or pro-commercial. What method of fishing is more damaging to the fish? Potentialy more lethal? Effects or increase risk to the greatest amount of fish?

thanks for your reply,

hook

[nivtup]

It is still simple,


BAN ALL NETS

[nivtup]

And why in the world is there a gill net fishery for sturgoen anyway?

If the ODFW and WDFW find the need to continue to allow the commercial taking of stugeon to continue, then why not make it a hook and line fishery where slot limits can be adhered to without mortality to the fish.

This subject really steams me up. Was there ever a Commercial gill net fishery for Sturgeon until recently?

Why is it allowed to continue?

[GutZ]

Pilar;
Do you think you could modify the AIM-9M PWC repellent to strike this offensive members of the human race?

I too, would like to volunteer.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/pwchelp.htm

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Fish Now,
Sleep Later.

[Osprey]

Guts ,I think I can mount one on my Cat ...No Problem...Os

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Row quietly and fish a Cataraft
Release all Wild Fish!!-----<'))>><

"Just Say No To Sovereign Nations!"

Ban All Nets!!!

[Beer Waggin]

Is tail cutting true, or is it someones farce. If it is true, we need to get the media invovled. I would bet that any poor writer for the Oregonian would love to break a story like this. I would even spend the 100 buck in gas and take a vacation day to help him get pictures the pictures.

[_LIPPEE]

What do you mean by tail cutting.?

[Barnyard]

That's where the tails are cut so the fish doesn't make the minimum 42"

[Deleted User]

I hate all gillnets and what they are doing!!! They don't belong in the equation any longer. Why does the Government think we owe special netting rights to non-Indian and Indian gillnetters?!? Because the commercials have a long history of netting? I have actually heard this is one of their reasons; tradition. Geeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzz! And the commercials can get Gov. buy out money and job retraining, also on the Gov. As for the Indian gillnets, they simply weren't there when the Treaties were signed, but hords of native fish were! ....

I have little doubt there are both reasonable netters and 'don't give a ****' netters out there that would cut tails or whatever if it meant another buck. ... But is this scenario possible too: since most sturgeon fishers think the 45" fish are the best eating and also have much bigger filets than the 42" fish, and since a very high % of the fish are caught and kept right after growing over 42", could some sportfishers cut the tails off so that when they catch a 42" sturgeon without a tail it will have the big and good tasting filets of the 45" to 47" fish? And thus more of those around? I have no idea. I just know there is no shortage of both stupid and self serving lawbreakers on the big ball here.

[Pilar]

ISG. Aren't you special and knowledgeable too. I have to ask how such a knowledgeable individual would not acknowledge something that some of the rest of us see on a regular basis.

BTW I did not threaten your life. I am merely suggesting that you are taking a controversial position on this issue and that you are sure to offend many people.

I won't speculate on what your 'Position' is. Since you don't care to share it with the rest of us it is irrelevant.

The bend is your friend!

[MPT]

I thought the minimum size for the netters was 48" and the maximum size is still 60".

[Gregotis98]

I have heard of netters ******** about how hard sturgeon are to get out of the nets when salmon netting, and is far easier to cut tails off and pull out when in a hurry to get the fuc*ing net back in the water to get the prized and more paid for salmon. From what one of these ******** told me was the sturgeon twist and wrap up in the net and are very hard to get out.
Lets get these rapists caught in the act and expose this as loudly as possible to local media.

[Jellyhead]

Gregotis98,

You hit the nail on the head! I have a friend that used to make his living, notice I said make a living, gillnetting. He fished all columbia seasons, and traveled to alaska yearly to fish. This guy really fished hard and made ends meet. He no longer nets, and has since sold his boat. That aside, I've watched video tape of these guys netting fall chinook using deep gear (sinking nets) and trying to get sturgeon out the nets. Those sturgeon twist up just like you said. The puller's rain gear was literally shredded by picking out sturg. It wouldn't suprise me to see one of those guys whack a tail off a fish just to expidite it's release. Seasons are short, time is money to those guys. What's a tail cut off one of those sturg? the guy that cuts it off probably would just assume the thing die rather than have to pick it out of the net at a later date.

The second theory for missing tails is this----Recreational fisherman cutting tails off near leagal size sturgeon so that charter boat customers would not have an opprotunity to keep these fish, thus preserving the sport fishery, keeping it from overharvest by charter boats.

Which one do I belive? As a sport fisherman, why would I want to deprive anyone of a legit. caught meal? I wouldn't. Watching gillnetters first hand, I belive they would lob off tails to speed up the picking process and eliminate these trash fish from their drifts.

Food for thought--

Aaron

[Hoosier Daddy]

OK my opinions only.

One sturgeon are hard to remove from nets. I think we can agree on that. I think its probably mostly from the scutes though. Not the tail.

Two. I have no doubt that there are some commercial gillnetters that would in fact cut tails if it would save them time. Though I don't know how much time it would save.

Three. There may also be some sport fishers that would do it too. Possible reasons (though not good ones) would be mutilation of the tail so it is not possible to accurately measure the fish. This might allow them to eventually keep more fish if they had an excuse, I wouldn't bet on it though. I can't actually think of any other reasons.
RT - I think the fish growth aspect wouldn't work. Cutting off a fishes tail, if it didn't outright kill it, would certainly reduce its ability to get around, especially since they use the upper lobe to gain lift in swimming. So they probably wouldn't be able to feed well, and wouldn't gain as much weight as a fish with a tail. Not that some dumbass wouldn't try it, but it wouldn't work.

Overall, I would have to say that I think the commercials have the most to gain by doing it. There are plenty of fish out there, and time is money. Most importantly, we all know most commercial fisheries are based entirely on harvest NOW. Commercial fishers do think of the future, but often, they have to act on what makes them the most bucks now.

[Fishbulb]

This makes me sick to my stomach. RT why are you leaving this on the BB?

[Deleted User]

Uhhh...why shouldn't he?

[Deleted User]

Fishbulb, if this thread made you sick why did you read it all the way thru? This is a controversial subject that should be brought to light. As for the 'boat guns', I took that as lighthearted expressions, but also a way to put their strong frustrations into perspective. It was not meant as a serious endeavor. - RT

[Master Baiter]

Dude don't tell me that, it is too late now for me to get a refund on that pedastal mounted M60 I just purchased! http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif

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Keep your tip up and don't pull too hard! {;-)>

[Mikie]

Hey M.B. Remember short controlled burst's , you dont want to warp your barrel. J.K. SEE YA MIKIE.