Jet Etiquette

[SandySteel]

I have just begun using a sled to run up rivers in (I still prefer a driftboat) and several questions about etiquette have popped up. As a former bankie I want to be as courteous as possible but find it difficult at times. Often you round a corner and there is a bankie near where you are running and there is no opportunity to slow down and stay out of their fishing water.
Is it necessary to slow down for every boat I pass as I ascend a river so I don't throw them a big pile of wake? What can be done about a bankie fishing a shallow tailout where the boat has to be on step to get over the shallow areas?

[Doubletake]

SS, look up "ettiquette" on the search section of this BB. I believe it was Sept. 1,2000. A lot of good info. on sleds, and courtesy.

Good luck

Doubletake

[This message has been edited by Doubletake (edited 12-27-2000).]

[Deleted User]

Doubletake,
I also am interested in what is considered to be good jet ettiquette. I tried search above but only came back to this. Is there any other way to find that thread.

[Roeboat]

Hey Cutplugger. There are a lot of people that just don't like sleds period. No way, no how... Basically you use common sense and don't run too close to people which really shouldn't be a problem on rivers you are running sleds. Pass other sleds opposite the side they are fishing and keep your wake as small as possible (planing at half throttle is usually good). If driftboats are pulling plugs down thru the drift it is best to just wait it out as they usually only get one pass thru anyway. I have found most sled operators to be courteous if you are. If you wish to fish a gravel bar with a lot of people there like the gravel bar opposite Blue creek pull in below the bar, and walk up and fish like the others. Very simple.
I remember my driftboat anchor slipping and then catching up in a very fast nasty area on the Cowlitz years ago with the boat rocking side to side dangerously as I let out the 100 feet of line to stabilize the boat and was preparing to cut the anchor line when a guide in a sled came by and pulled my anchor free for me saving me from a bad spot and saving my anchor and line. I was extremely grateful. Good guys come in sleds also. You have fished from a driftboat so you can see both sides of the equation.

[Jeffhead]

We had a thread titled river etiquette about four or five months ago. SS sometimes it is tough to be courteous even if you want and are trying to be. No you cannot slow down every time you pass a boat. Going downriver do so when possible and the river will allow you to get back on step, going up river stay on plane and give as much room as you can. The wake you make will be twice as big if you try to go slow. As for the situation with the shallow water you will have to blast past or pound some rocks into the bottom of your sled. You will not please any banker or drift boater, just get used to the glares and expletive deleteds as you go by!!!
Good luck and tight lines, Jeff http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[This message has been edited by Jeffhead (edited 12-27-2000).]

[Phish_on]

Yeah, no sense worrying about it. Everyone will think you're an @$$#o)& anyway, so just go for it. Kill lots of fish and gut them right out in the middle of the river. Put some antlers on the bow, that looks tuff!

[Doubletake]

Cutplugger,

I found that "ettiquette" search, copied and have it in Word. I sent it to Sandysteel if you would like, E-mail me and I will send you the attachment also.

Doubletake

[Hoosier Daddy]

Excellent! I was considering putting a post up about this. I was banking it the other day and had a jetboat bomb by me, going upstream. I was a little ticked, because he went through the chute I was fishing (don't think he had a choice). But I didn't want to just get pi##ed having driven a few boats (not jets) around myself, so thought I should ask Ifish. Is it necessary to haul butt to stay on step and get upstream, or is it just cause they can do it? This particular spot was pretty deep, but there are some rapids around it, and with this boat, I wouldn't have wanted to scratch it either, too pretty to fish from. Anyway, I know this was posted somewhere earlier, but any info would be good. Otherwise I'm going to start packing water balloons http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Kind of what I figured, thanks

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Like 99% of jet runners have courtesy...yeah right. Come down to the Cowlitz and bank it on a hole that isn't past the boat marker and try and see if etiquette comes into play. The wake doesn't bother me, it's the boat that decides to park in my hole while I am there fishing it.

[RichH]

Hey_Yall,

Isn't that why they make bank sinkers?


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Rich H

[meyersbilly]

I have less hassle with people if I keep the hammer down as opposed to half throttle or pussyfooting through the hole. Can't hit me if you can't see me. The biggest problem I have is with bank anglers throwing pyramids at my boat when I'm anchored. If you are there first who's in the right. Everyone assumes a boat can go somewhere else, but on really crowded rivers this isn't always the case.

[Fubby]

Steve J has makes a good point. Boaters that take it off step pass you slower prolonging the agony and cause a larger wake. The faster the better. Get that boat by me so that I can get back to what I am there for.
The added benefit is that the sled boat in passing can move the fish around and that is not always a bad thing.

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A Hatchery Fish is a terrible thing to waste...

[Gizmo Man]

There are a few things we can all do to minimize conflict on the river or have "proper etiquette". If we all use some of these, bankies, db's or jets....we will all enjoy the real purpose of the trip, to have a good time, meet nice people like ourselves, enjoy the outdoors, and maybe take home a fish.

I have a small sled and a drift boat. I also bank fish and flyfish. No matter what you do, you get someone upset.

Regardless of which boat or method you use, I submit the following to get along better on the river:

If you see a bankie don't stop in front of them and start fishing. You can move, they can't.

If you're a bankie and walk in on a boat that is there, don't go below them and expect them to just pull out of the way. Wail your turn to fish the hole.

Generally, the saying "when in Rome, do as the Romans are doing" applies in our sport. Don't anchor in traditinal trolling places, do not troll in anchor holes,...don't plunk when people are casting, and don't cast on the plunkers. Using a float and bobber, control the amt of line.

Don't anchor or stop in a blind narrow curve. Sled or db. If you are and hear a sled coming give them room to get by. They are going through and cannot shut down. This is like anchoring in the shipping channel and expecting a freighter to stop because you decide to block navigation. Remember the rules of navigation have priority over fishing.

If you see a fish on, stay out of the way unless you are asked for help. Reel up and get your line out of the way and don't gamble that the person with the fish on can control the direction the fish wants to run.

Have a fish on, land it as quickly as possible, don't try to spawn with it.

See a bankie with a fish, ask if they need help, Do this from a distance and don't start fishing their hole while they are fighting the fish.

Don't pass a boat pulling plugs and start fishing on top of their lines or just below them. You don't like it, so don't do it to them. Wait your turn or go to next hole.

You are fishing a hole and see that a boat is letting you fish and is going to pass you and let you have the hole, don't run to next hole. Leap frog the holes. Everyone will have a good time.

Don't pull up to a boat fishing and anchor or start fishing just below them. Go up above and wait your turn.

If you see another boat waiting, don't try to wait them out. Fish the hole and move on or go back above them.

If you can, pass someone where they direct you. Also, with those big sleds, even on plane, you put out a sizeable wake that can pull boats free from anchor or capsize them. You are responsible for your wake and the damage it causes.

Don't go to the river with the idea to see how drunk you can get. It impresses no one and your manners disappear. Most people will think you're obnoxious and you will generally prove their observation correct.

Don't use the river or bank as your personal trash can. You bring it, you take it home and a little more. Throwing your cans, wrappers, bait containers, etc collect somewhere. If you don't want me to dump my trash in you're back yard, then don't do it in societies.


Have one of those jet skis, enjoy it, but don't buzz the fisherman.

If everyone remembers that to fish means to have a good time and enjoy yourself, then don't go out with the idea you own the river and no one else has the right to fish.

I have seen many rude boaters, jet and db. They think that by passing me they are getting to the water first. Many times there is or have been a boat in front of me and I am waiting my turn.

For guides, you don't own the river. You may fish it more than others, but the guide license doesn't come with a rudeness license or exclusive fishing rights. Remember, if you're nice to me, I'll be nice to you. I may even refer people to you... Or I may have a chance to steer business away from you (I got to do this just the other day...I referred someone to a guide with manners away from a guide who is generally unfriendly...cost him a trip for 2..)

Overall, if you just use common sense and treat people the way you want to be treated and the river like it is a masterpiece for all to enjoy not destroy, you will have a good day on the river and proper etiquite will be natural to you, not something that someone has to teach you.

Its ok to limit your kill. You don't need to kill your limit and waste or snag fish. Remember, you may want to fish tomorrow and there may not be fish or a place to fish if we all don't work on etiquette, manners fish and stream restoration.

Sorry, for being long winded, but I haven't been able to fish for 3 weeks as the back is out.

You all have a safe and happy New Year...


Giz...

[RichH]

Giz,


Absolute perfection. If everyone took the approach you just outlined, how could anyone complain? Three cheers to you and get better and back out there.


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Rich H

[WheresMyBobber]

Gizmo Man

OUTSTANDING POST! Thank you.

I myself have a small sled, bank fish, fly fish, and drift in a friends drift boat.

Everything you've said is spot-on, I wish that post could be read by every fisherman, no matter how they fish.

Good job, and good luck.

[Deleted User]

Thanks Walt! That was a great post. Someone save it somewhere for when the subject comes up again. ...

Sometimes I don't have the patience with rude jerks that you do. I had something happen to me a few weekd ago the same as it did to 'Yall on the Cowlitz. I got to the boat ramp early and while I was waiting for Jeff to show up I bank fished near the ramp. As I was casting, some jerks in an 18' older wooden sled anchored right out in front of me where they saw I was casting. It makes you wish it were legal to use a bazooka on the offenders if they won't leave when properly asked. They wouldn't leave and I didn't bring my bazooka. So, when Jeff launched his heavy welded V-sled I asked him if I could drive us to the first fishing slot. I ran way over to the other side, did a sweeping on plane turn and headed up to full speed and ran right thru the middle of that wooden boat! Really funny; sliced it clean in half and the 2 jerks sat there in the anchored bow section slowly sinking as they watched the transome with 2 rods in holders drift down river. They deserved it! ... OK, this didn't really happen; it was just my fantasy revenge http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Roeboat]

Great post Gizmoman! Wonderful job of articulating many of the common situations on the river with wisdom. You have expressed it with better words than I can.

[Predator Dawg]

Nookie - your actually better off having them go by you at a pretty good clip vs. slowing down. I've owned a couple jets and can attest to the fact that they 'dig in' and displace alot more water when not fully up on step. Its irritating I know, but best for both you and the boater. This holds true for upriver travel, down river is different for displacement but you need some speed to keep control ofr the boat.

Steve

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

See RT, I told ya, Blue Creek to me is no longer considered "the zoo", hell the whole river is when the fish are running. I wish they would move the boat marker down further so I could fish "that hole http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" in peace. Sucks don't it, when they don't move eh? It's ok, you don't have to answer that. So you asked them to move and what was their response?????? This should be interesting. Also, you watch too many cartoons RT..lol You can cut a boat in half and it will still float. All I am going to say is trust me on that one http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif As long as the weight is evenly distributed.

[Kwiky]

Great post Giz, thanks. I'm going to copy and pass it out to a few select dbers I see frequently on the river http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kwiky

[Deleted User]

'Yall, a couple clarifications;

this was up at the Barrier Dam north side launch during the silver run. For the first half hour of daylight the boaters anchored in a line starting just downsteam of the ramp and the bank fishers fished on the upside of the ramp, all the way on up. I'm not a regular there, but it seemed obvious to me that a tradition likely had it that way, but because the boat slots were pretty well covered these rude jerks figured they would anchor right where another bank angler and I were casting just up from the ramp; instead of going downriver to ample good spots to fish (obvious genetically inferior inbreds). I asked them not to anchor where I was fishing and they wouldn't even look at me. They just set their rods in holders and sat up front under their canvas top. In addition to this scene I looked up at about 80 or so bankies with about 2/3 of them not fishing; they were only blatantly trying to snag the rolling silvers. Ugliness abounds there at times. When Jeff got there we just went down and anchored in a small opening in the boat line that some nice boaters invited us into. There are the good half of fishers too. I didn't want to make a big scene from Jeff's boat because he is a semi-regular there, otherwise I would have explained to the numbskulls in no uncertain terms what they amounted to. When things get to blatant wrong and rude cutoffs something has got to be done before fistfishts or worse break out. I just can't understand why the WDFG doesn't have an officer there to thwart snagging and out of line boaters!?! http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Predator Dawg]

RT -

Theres kind of a rule there than certainly isn't hard and fast, but with the deadline for boats right above the launch and the bankies having the entire upper area to snag.....oooops, I mean fish, the boats will pile right up to the deadline regardless of any bankies.

I've seen what you described go on for years and that is sorta just how it is. The pool out in front of the launch can be awsome at times, and we will usually try to drop anchor so the boat nose is just below the line. Then again, we get there early enough so as to avoid any 'situations', but I have seen it occur.

Steve

[Fish4Fun]

RT,

We have been fishing the Cowlitz since 1969, when you mention fistfight's or worse I had to laugh. During the early 70's it was nothing to have at least a couple good fights during the winter. As for the worse it got to a point that a lot of boats caried firearms during the mid 70's. All you had to do is set it so that the barrel of a 12 gauge was visible. Or just lay a pistol on the center console in plain sight. We have had some wild times on that river through the years. Looking back now they are funny but it wasn't back then.

Fish4Fun

[zipper]

Bad manners are just as frequent on the larger water.... see butt head boaters all the time on the Columbia. My dad used to tell a story about fishing around the Jetty at Tillamook Bay (he was a permanent fixture this time of year - boat named "How Nice") someone drove over his line while fighting a fish - the boat has a dent from another boat running into him while he was fighting a fish... combat fishing... http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Greg]

RT, I hear you about the ZOO at the Barrier Dam during the silver run this year. We fished up there a couple of days, and I never saw so many people snagging fish...Hell, they were standing in line when the hatchery trucks came down to recycle fish, and casting spinners and other less identifiable contraptions right into the fish as they came out of the truck. Never saw a fish cop there once. If I'd thought it would do any good, I'd have videotaped some of that mess and dropped it off at WDFW headquarters on my way back to Fort Lewis.
Greg

[Gizmo Man]

Thank you all for the kind words. Glad you all agree with the post.

For a New Years Resolution, let see if we can spread the word and make the rivers a fun place to go...

Giz...

[SteelieSteve]

I used to fish a spot on the Clackamus. Get there before light and get to the spot. You had to wade out about crotch deep to cast across and hit the slot. Sleds would roar by making you back pedal for high ground over the slick rocks. One guide repeatedly would come down and fish the hole while I was fishing. It did not matter to him that I was fishing or that he was backtrolling right into my water. He had customers and that was much more important than a bankies right to fish. I know his name and think mighty poorly of him. He is a prominant guide on the Clack and lives on it. He was one of the guides featured on Larry's "Fishing the West". He did this more than a few times when I was there, really pi$$ed me off. Everyone has the right to fish so give the bank angler the right of way if he is there first.

[Deleted User]

SteelieSteve, I agree with you for the most part, but there are exceptions that should be exonerated from that rule. That is in holes that are traditionally fished by a number of sled boats. One bankie can ruin fishing a hole for 30 other people in sleds all by himself. A perfect example is the 'High Rocks/Cross Park' hole on the lower river. Traditionally the bankies fish the upper, and best, part of the hole from the rocks. Sleds backtroll the lower half down to the tailout. It takes only one inconsiderate or unaware bankie that insists he earned that whole stretch by being on the south side 'Monkey Rock' before light, and then casting way out over the sled boats lines, to mess it all up. Really ruins it for everybody else and ruins the high usability of the area. The ironic thing is that many of the 'fishing challenged' that fish there cast way too far out, while the fish sit almost at their feet! It comes down to common sense again. Q: if you were on Monkey Rock before the boats came in and they explained the above situation to you, and you saw all the bank anglers up at the more productive upper end, what would you do? What do you think is the proper precident in those type of situations? - RT

[SteelieSteve]

R.T.
This was upriver. True the clack is owned by the sledders but I found the fish there and only had access by casting across the river. My point is that Toman showed no consideration for me at all, repeatedly! The spot I discovered and shared with some buddies. It produced while few other places do on the clack He had a sled and the option of fishing nearly everywhere on the river but he chose to fish in front of me. Of course much lead slinging was the only recourse along with a few choice angry words.

Steve

[Deleted User]

That sounds like a different situation than what I described Steve. He was out of line being the only boat to come onto your water. Unfortunate. The saying 'what goes around comes around' often applies to river fishing/boating.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

RT, tradition smadition, the law of the land "Early bird gets the worm." Those who are there first, fish it first, no matter how many people it ****** off. The fact of the matter is boaters have a bazillion % more access to other holes and water than a bankie has. If it ****** those boaters off so badly that the "fishing unaware" were there first, then maybe the next time the boaters show up, they will think to wake up before the bankie. Combat fishing really takes away from the overall enjoyment of fishing, especially if a guy thinks it's worth carrying a gun with him. I won't be so kind when I start fishing "that hole" RT up at the Cowlitz as I have been. I will swim out there to the boat if I have to because there are a trillion holes on the Cowlitz for fish, no matter what's running. I just find it ridiculous to spend thousands of $$$ on a boat to anchor 30 feet from the launch. That's my 2 cents worth and "It's True, Oh It's True"

[Fubby]

SteelieSteve, you either do not know or care (because you roam the banks) that it is impossible for a bank fisher to properly fish all holding water. A long cast to reach the other bank does not usually allow for a proper presentation within the holding water. Are you just upset that you do not have a boat? There are plenty of places for bank anglers to fish where they will not be disturbed by boaters. Why don't you go there? The Clackamas is a sled boaters river as mentioned. So why do you complain if you have a choice? Go higher than the sleds and quite crying.......

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A Hatchery Fish is a terrible thing to waste...

[SteelieSteve]

FubbyStucker - What this is all about is common courtesy. If the boat was fishing the hole when I got there I would go elsewhere. Just becuase the guide has a boat load of doughboys doesn't give him rights to the river. I was there first. Guys like you make fishing a bad experience. Also I see the typical sledders mentality in your statement.

[Fubby]

SteelieSteve - Mr. "I got there first" you and me had better get something straight right now. It is not about courtsey, it is about you being there first. You got up early and headed out to the river. You went to a spot on the river that you must have seen before or you would not have gotten up so early. Speaking of mentality, what type of a mentality would a person have who goes to a river where there is a more than probable chance of seeing a sled boat and wade up to his crotch and not expect to get wet? It sounds as if you should trade in those waders for a wetsuit. Once you reached the river out you go. As the water numbs your crotch you know you have reached your destination. Now you begin to fling your presentation out across the river to the other side maybe reaching the holding water. What you have just told me is that you have no concept of distance and angle effect upon your drift. You do know that it is not possible for all holding water to be fished from the bank, right? It sounds as if you did not have a chance of fishing the holding water. The boater simple realized this and moved down to fish where you could not.

The boater that you have slandered is a friend of the fisherman. He does make his living by pursuing a natural resource where "doughboys" pay him for his efforts. Have you ever fished with him? I will bet my boat that you have not.

If it is courtsey you would like to discuss I would like to point out that you as a bank roamer have a responsibility also. You do not own the bank, you could, but I doubt it. Once I was heading my boat into a blind corner. As I entered the corner I was confronted by a driftboat fishing the slot and a bank roamer who had flung his bobber out into the river near the slot. I had to make a decision in a second. I chose to run over the bank roamers bobber which I sucked up into my pump, which catapulted his fishing pole from its twig holder down the bank with the roamer chasing. I am describing this situation not just for pleasure but to show you that it is about all river users. The bank roamer (unless he was deaf and I then do apologize) heard me coming and should have removed his offering and allowed me to pass. I would have been gone in a second and he could have sat back down in his lawn chair and sucked on his beer. Instead, he was there first and that was that.

I have also encountered the "I was there first" mentality from other boaters. One incident that comes to mind involved myself and a Purdy Good boater. I came out of a corner on a plane moving up river. I made visual contact with the boater who was pulling divers. I positioned my boat to make a safe wide pass in the open water. As I advanced up river the boater began to squeeze me out of my path. Now my intention was to pass with minimal disturbance to his holding water. He must not have seen it this way. He moved his offerings right in to my path. I did not stray and consequently caused the divers to tangle. That was mess, I guess?

You have been direct in commenting about me being a typical sled boater. I stand alone. I do not speak for others and my actions are mine alone. I doubt that I would give sled boaters a bad name since I have had few unpleasant incidents. I have however aided in at least a dozen river rescues of bank roamers and boaters alike. I have not lost one to date.

People such as yourself are to blame for the courtsey problem. You put yourself in a compromising position. Then you point your finger at the other party and place the blame upon them. When you finally thaw out your crotch and start thinking straight you might just take a look at the situation and find out that it could have been avoided. Are you going to tell the guy who just worked a double shift and decided to sleep in until 8:00 AM, "I was here first" you wait your turn. Maybe it should be Sir SteelieSteve.



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A Hatchery Fish is a terrible thing to waste...

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

I will show you a thawed out crotch. And no there was nothing educated about your reply to defend yourself with the typical sledder banter. You are the typical sledder, now that you know the problem, there are steps you can take to help cure yourself. The first one is, Someone is there first, Then Move on, who gives a crap if the other 300 bankers up on higher ground are catching fish, he decided he wanted to fish his spot, then let him fish his spot. If he doesn't catch fish, then it's his loss. No he doesn't own the bank (he could), but he can cast as far or whatever angle he feels justified to cast. Just too many boaters think they own the whole river regardless of courtesy, and I have found moreso with recreational boaters, not guides down on the Cowlitz. The guides pretty much will move on for the most part. Ya know I applaud your effort in rescuing those folks. That shows you have some character. I know not all boaters/sledders grew up always fishing from a boat, so I ask that y'all remember what it's like to be a bankie, and some of us can afford these boats, but prefer the simple, quiet approach, not drag racing and bumper boats. Nothing more frustrating that waking up at 3am to drive 2 hours or more to get to a spot, hike a mile, be CROTCH deep in near freezing water, then only to have a boater decide after you get there that he owns that hole since he partied his ass off the night before and shows up at 8 or 9. And all these boaters don't realize, but you set an example everytime you are on the water, especially the more experienced boaters, so the example you set could be followed by clients/people on your boat that may be future boat owners. I can tell ya now, with a lack of courtesy and bad boating skills being handed down, that will stem fights, possibly deaths, and no doubt the state will close the river or stretch of water to boats. Remember liability and insurance claims. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SteelieSteve]

hey_y'all
my thanks for your eloquence!!! perhaps I was not wordy enough to get the point across to f.s.
It was the case of having gotten there many hours before said guide showed; also was the case of having caught more than a couple fish out of that slot so I think my casting across the river and fishing that slot from the proper side was effective and yes indeed he infringed on water that was being fished by a bank angler who preferred not to fish with a guide. Don't get all wrong, sure i'd like to have a sled; they are good for fishing the Willamette, Columbia and other appopriate waters but the issue was courtesy and not taking a hole away from a angler who was there first, was fishing the slot and was catching fish. I quit fishing there years ago becuase of the lack of respect shown by that guide who came daily to take over the slot... like he owned the river and noone else had any rights to fish there. I have read all the articles on this topic and thought there was many good responses. I do find fubby_stucker's comments to fall in the offensive and pushy catagory. He stnds up for his friends attitude. Beleive me I took offense to the guide who infringed on me and would not recommend a trip with him; I have fished with guides and found them to be polite, knowledgeable and mostly good people. End of my .02's worth.
May y'all have good times in the new year and fish'on.

[C&R]

I had a wonderful experience with the drive of a red Willie sled on the Clack over the weekend. The jerk settled down in the running we had started to flyfish. He proceeded to back troll and the same pace I worked my way through the run. I was working a fairly long line after they trolled into my cast twice the A$$ running the boat began asking if I knew what I was doing.

C&R

[Fubby]

Hey_Yall and SteelieSteve - Nice posts! Sleds and rivers go hand in hand. There are rivers where sleds are not allowed. Other river guidlines allow limited sled boating. If you want to fish a river without being bothered by a wake then don't choose a river where sleds are allowed. This will solve the problem of "I was there first" with the boaters and the bank roamers. You will still have the same problem due to the fact that several people may try to fish the same water that you have choosen. Do you hand out next in line tickets so that each angler does not envade your water? Boaters are like bank roamers. They too have limited water to fish. The boater often has the advantage of pursuit with the ability to change the position of the boat. SteelieSteve I may have been quick to judge your earlier comments about being pushed out of the hole by a sled. However, I have based my comments upon experience. I have witnessed countless bank roamers who fling their offerings out to the holding water having no chance of enticing a fish. Their sole purpose was to keep the boats from fishing this water. Should I count you in this group? The boat had the angle and as the anglers moved the boat backed down and nailed three fish! The bank roamers were there first. Divide and conquer. Your attacks upon my point of view are lame. Why? You have no basis for your arguement. You do not have experince in a sled (as you have stated). You have a preconcieved notion that all sledders stay up all night and party then head down to the rivers not to fish but to **** off all of the bank roamers who have gotten up well before the roster. You talk about courtsey on the river. Does courtsey apply to all as I have asked before? Courtsey is a univeral concept. I know boaters who say that the bank roamer is not courteous to their space. You have stated that I continue to have the mentality of a sledder. What is a sledder? It is a person who likes to fish in a different way than you do. Maybe you do not know the advantages of using a sled boat to pursue salmon/steelhead. Perhaps there is another reason that would not allow you to do so. I don't know! Any view or opinion that I have posted is my own. You have stereotyped all sled boaters based upon your limited knowledge. I am sure that you will try some sort of witty reply to this post (which are witty most of the time Hey_Yall), but the fact remains that the courtsey that you speak of only pertains to others actions towards you. " I was there first" and courtsey are not the same.

It has been a pleasure posting with you and I look forward to future contact.

Good luck on your next adventure and stay out of those sleds way -

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Witty yes, punctual, I try to be. Trying to prove a point, only when necessary. In reply to stereotyping all sledders, my apologies, just no apologies to the ones that my post pertained to. Courtesy and who was there first do go hand in hand, maybe you should try it more than often and see what I mean. I fish out of sleds alot more than you think, and with guides. I don't mind the wake from those boats at all, and never will it really bother me. Now I would share that hole with other bankers because it would be easier than sharing it with a boat because those are two totally different ways to land a fish. A boat gets in my hole, anchors down, well now that increases the chances of my fish getting tangled in their anchor rope, and/or lines. I have seen it more often than not, and lost several silvers this year because of that scenario. For you to say sledder access is limited is a totally cheesy comment if you even want to compare bank access to a boater's access. C&R, my apologies to you for not being able to tie on a buzzbomb on your line, then you could say you didn't know what you were doing to that *******. I have already called in 2 complaints on 2 different boats down on the Cowlitz, all it takes is "yes I would like to report a boater who is endangering lives". Give the boat number. Maybe not all boaters party the night before, but you get the picture, normally us educated and enthusiastic bank maggots will wake up earlier than most just to put more effort into getting to a place, and more often than not, a boat will ruin the enjoyment of that fishing day even if you catch fish before it shows up. Probably here in the next year I will buy a boat, and I guaran-damn-tee I will have courtesy for the ones who got their first. After all, it was my fault for not beating them there so who am I to take that spot away from them or try to protrude into someone's piece of pie?

[C&R]

Y'all, Where and how do you report the sledders in WA. I'd like to look at this option in OR.

What are the implications to the driver?

The interesting thing is many of the apparently "discourteous" sledders and the ones that justify it by saying they are moving the fish. I don't want them moving the fish don't do me any favors.

In the case on the Clack, I could have hooked the drive of the boat or any of his party as they where only a 100ft at max and I can throw the two handed fly rod that far. Next time at the ramp I'll look for his rig and leave a note, not to threaten just educate.

How have you been doing on the Cow?

[Trick]

Thank god that I've chosen to fish mostly rivers and streams for steelhead that are unnavigable by boats because if I had to put up with attitudes displayed by the listed guide I'd be hot too. That's just plain downright rude behavior. I get pi$$ed off all the time for getting to my favorite spots too late and not being able to fish the slot but I do the right thing and I move along until I find a spot that isn't claimed. I don't crowd in on the people, I don't cast over them, I don't wade in front of them. I'm able to muster the words "good morning, how's the fishing", even though I'd rather throw them in the water. Didn't your mama teach you any matters, f.s.. You weren't the kid in school cutting-in on the lunch line all the time were you?

The best runs are on rivers that are usually boatable and there are alot more bankies than boaties around, get used to it and get some manners or leave the boat at home. Why should all the bankies be slammed into small streams to compete for fewer fish and leave the boaties the bigger rivers with higher returns? We all pay taxes and fees on the hatchery fish and deserve to catch them wearever they may roam.


I'll just stick to my small favorite streams and I'll let the rest of you duke it out. Just giving my perspective.

[This message has been edited by tshickam (edited 01-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by tshickam (edited 01-04-2001).]

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

C&R, you can call any of the law enforcement officials numbers, but I usually call the state patrols office and have them patch me in either with the sheriff's office or the Game and Fish cops. You don't have to leave a name, but it doesn't hurt because you never know, those guys could get a ticket or arrested, you be called into court as a witness, and you will get to see the look on those @ssfaces when they see the guy that they ****** on. That "Look" is classic, it goes something like this http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif Now I am not saying there's not any uncourteous bankies. I am just trying to catch the fish like everyone else, it's just I have "etiquette" in doing so. Oh yeah my fellow bankies, "Pack It Out" even if you didn't bring it in. I almost died down on the Cowlitz (well not really, but I could have if I had paniced) because of stripped line getting wrapped around my legs from someone who didn't pack it out. C&R, I think the charge is called "Wreckless endangerment" or you can pretty much say you were scared for your life because of this crazy rude DRUNK guy. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Fubby]

Please count on your fingers all of the rivers in SW Washington and Northwest Oregon that allow sled access. Please exclude the Willamette and the Columbia. Now count all of the rivers where there are salmon and steelhead and access is denied to sleds. Now compare the two. Do you see who is CHEESY now! By the way I tipped my jigs with maggots last week and had great success. You are dreaming if you believe now that you are going to buy a boat and beat everyone else to the holes that you will own them - Wrong! The next boater along will be right in above you waiting for you to move along, that is being courteous. You talk about etiquette on the river. Try getting to a spot and hold up the flow of fishing because you were there first. I know that this will come as a big surprise, but you can not always do as you wish. Now if you want to follow the rules of engagement I am sure you will not have a problem. However, I suspect that you will do your own thing. Then you will wonder why is everyone ****** at me? I was here first so I should be able to do what ever I want! I will always move to a hole that is not taken and I help little old ladies accross the street...As you become more experienced you will see how things work. You will not fish from the bank where boats are if you do not want to encounter possible problems. You will work with others either on the bank or in boats regardless of who was their first. You will learn that courtsey and "I was there first" do not mean the same thing.

Hope to fish near you soon.

[Fubby]

OOPS -

[This message has been edited by Fubby Stucker (edited 01-04-2001).]

[SteelieSteve]

fubby s
I suppose it would be ok if you were fishing on the bank and I came along in my sled and moved in front of you and took over the spot. As far as I'm concerned the issue is dead since I don't fish the Clack anymore leaving it to you sledders. I's rather drive 2 hours to the coast and fish for bright fish on rivers that have no sledders. Happy maggot fishing.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

"You will not fish from the bank where boats are if you do not want to encounter possible problems."

CORRECTION: Boats will not fish where I am if they do not want to encounter problems....if I was there first. They will learn this as THEY get more experienced. Now if a boat wants to wait for me to leave a hole, that's his perrogative. Either way it stinks: the amount of courtesy boaters have for bankies who where there first..period. Your comment was still cheesy because YOU count the number of holes on those rivers that YOU can count on your hand compared to the holes a bankie can access. I don't hold up fishing, I will let any boat PASS if he wants to move downriver as long as he doesn't think he can just hold up a few moments in my hole before he moves on. And to think I am crazy to think my way when I get a boat, Well I guess you just ain't seen Crazy yet, if that's what you consider crazy.

I throw dem thangs.

[U Will Lose]

I was told about this BB from a friend that fishes. Let me give you a view from someone who doesn't fish. All you damn fishermen think you own the rivers. You fish the deeper spots of the rivers and cry when we come by on our jet skis. This is usually the water that is best suited to our choice of recreation. You fishermen can't even agree amongst yourselves about what is proper use of the water, and that doesn't even include others that have a right to use our waterways.
The only post I have seen on this link that seems to address this is by Fubby Stucker. At least he sees that you fishermen have way more water to use for your "sport" if thats what you call it, than we do as jet skiers. Quit your crying and go fish rivers that do not allow motors, there are plenty. If fishing is such an ordeal in the rivers that allow jet boats or jet skiers why do you bother. Maybe watercraft help fishing for you people on the bank as this is where you continue to fish. There is always plenty of trout farms that do not allow boats. Also, Safeway and other fine retailers sell fish for a lot less cash than you guys spend trying to catch them. Buying it there would also solve your problem with us boaters.

Share the water or get wet! http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hey Fubby, you can fish up here anytime. We don't fish, but you seem to be O.K. with us.

[Salmonator]

That's the problem with all you jet skiers, you think you own the whole damn river ha ha. If i'm on the bank fishing and you're w/in 200ft you better be doing 5mph or less. If you don't like it you'll find out why they invented cell phones and state cops... OR maybe i'll just give the drag on my curado a really good workout http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[U Will Lose]

I will be doing 5mph only if you are fishing near a boat dock. What is a curado?

[Deleted User]

Hey 'U'. It's the same thing for jet skiers. If the hole is already occupied by fishermen first then don't be messing around in it. Find your own water. And why don't we just buy our fish at the market? I guess that would be kinda tough for a 'challenged' guy like you to figure out. Because it would be like puttin 50 cents in the arcade electric jet ski ride instead of riding the real thing. Only in your case the environment would be better off if you spent even more of your time at the arcade than you already do. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Trick]

"U", you got to be kiddin right? You can't be serious? There is no way you have freinds that fish, do you?


They're climbing out of the woodwork???

Maybe I'll see ya at the seafood counter of your local Freddy's sometime. Maybe we can head out into the lobby and pop quarters into the video games? http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Salmonator]

You will be fined whether i'm near a dock or not. Read the regs. You lose

[This message has been edited by Salmonator (edited 01-07-2001).]

[Fubby]

U Will Lose - It sounds like a blast to run the white water on a jet ski. I will have to try it some time. You have a great point. The waters are there to be used by all of us whether we are fisherman, kayakers or jet skiers. Several people have choosen to agrue the point that because they have reached their destination first that it is now there domain. Courtsey is sharing your space with others, not owning it. This would include jet skis and jet boaters. I know that you will not be popular on a fishing board with the anouncement of being a jet skier. However, I have never seen a jet skier get up as early as I have to get to a piece of water (and if I did I would pay for the doctor visit). The question is not in the water use but how it is used. I would not condone the actions of any boater who intentionally pulled in front of a bank roamer (or boat fisherman) just to cause havoc. However, the bank roamer (and fellow boaters) should not be justified in getting mad if you are responsible in your water use. Any one who infringes upon other use of the water should be ready to suffer the conseqences.

I am sure that you will get some responses to your post that will refer to pitching some sort of gear at you for being to close. If you get into this situation and it was not caused in response to you purposely antagonizing the other party, call me. I have doused the deserving on occasion with my pump.

------------------
A Hatchery Fish is a terrible thing to waste...

[U Will Lose]

Now someone named RT (River Traffic? guess he/she tried to keep it easy to spell) is now worried about how I treat the environment. I would love to drain the rivers and lakes and see the fishing line, hooks, beer cans (I am sure some jet skiers are guilty on this one) that turn up. I always see white styrofoam containers (worms?) on shore that are left behind by fishermen, as well as fishing line and who knows what. I am sure you all are not guilty, but I do see it alot. Sure we have problems with other boaters/jetskiers, but we don't act like the river is ours alone, and we must follow everyone elses supposed rules. I would love to see the law that says if a guy is fishing, he has some special right that says the water in front of him is his if he gets there first. It sounds like something children would say, "I got dibs on this spot" http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif. Hah!! Go ahead call the cops on me, just remember, littering is against the law too. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[U Will Lose]

Hi Fubby. I see you were posting just when I was. I do not try to make people angry, but I do have as much right as anyone to use the water. If they throw something at me, they will probably miss. My Yamaha 1200 can do about 70 mph. If they can cast or throw that good, I will take the shot in good humour. Of course I will soak them on my way back down! If you ever want to try a real sport, give me a shout. You can find me in the arcades, just ask your fishing buddies. Thanks for the support of our rights Fubby. Good name too. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif This is kinda fun. You fishing guys fight back. I like that. Just like on the river!

[HOGTIDE]

First of all, U.W. L. is a troll. You can tell he is middle aged( about 52) by his language patterns, knowledge of the sport and its issues, and even by his structuarally proper use of profanity. Other than that, this fishin' buddy (yes, he's one of us) is attempting to point out the weakness of us arguing with each other. A rather commendable attempt,I must admit, even through his sophomoric format.

Back to the point at hand, forum members. I am a jet boat owner, I also run a driftboat and frequently I stand next to you,hike the trails, fish the bank, share a few lies, advice and elk jerky and wish you luck. The point is that I am a fisherman, like you, and I frequently make stupid errors on the river, like you, but I TRY to be courteous. Be courteous to me. Kindly tell me when I screw up and I'll kindly apologize and correct or accommodate. But, don't bark, yell, swear, threaten or throw lead at me. Anger brings out anger.

Remember, in this plastic, glitter, cyber indoors society of ours, we outdoors folk are the true big dawgs . If we fight, it will be ugly...if the pack is wise and stays together, we are untouchable!

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

That was beautiful HOGTIDE. Like one of Pilar's opera folks.

Hilarious, when a jet skier is telling me he will take the shot in good humor. Isn't that like an invite to the party?? I can cast like a champ, I don't mind water, so I guess we'll see you on the river U WILL LOSE. As long as you already know your handle fits you just fine.

Fubby, I have no beef with you or any other jet boat owner. Driftboats have been just as guilty. I am with HogTide's reply.

[SLEDDER]

HEY PEOPLE WE ARE NOT AT WAR HERE!!

[SteelieSteve]

Very well said Hogtide. I too fish from driftboats and power boats but try to be thoughtful of others. I've never pushed my way into a hole that was being fished by a bank angler and moved in front of him. Mostly I bank fish and generally boaters give you space to fish. As for jet skiers they need to find water appropriate to there sport.

[Predator Dawg]

What do you get when you cross a 20', 2,500 lb V-8 powered metal jet sled with a 8' 300 lb 2 cylinder fiberglass jet ski?

Answer - a 20', 2,500 lb V-8 powered metal jet sled with a little white mark on the bottom of it. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Really though, wouldn't a jet skier have a heck of a lot more fun in a lake instead of a river?

I have one! and you won't find me in a river.

[rags]

Etiquette? The only way to solve this argument on the Clackamas is GET THE SLEDS OFF THE CLACKAMAS!If we can't at least limit the horsepower. I sometimes wonder when drifting the river if you sledders ever fish? All I see is guys running up and down the river trying to look cool! Those big inboards can't be good for the gravel beds. Guide etiquette? I have seen more smart a$$ ones than nice. If you want examples and names I can give you several. If you are bank fishing and in a hole first I don't care who the guide is or what my angle is to the drift it is my hole until I decide to leave.

[Deleted User]

Rags, I'm suprised at you! Your solution is to get rid of other user groups you don't belong to? LOL. I do agree that, like some driftboaters and bankies, some sledders give the wrong impression of the user group as a whole. Yes, I want names of guides that abuse river privilage and etiquette. There are more guides nowdays than are needed for the demand. It would be good to 'weed' out the bad ones. So please post the names of guides that get out-of-line on the river so they can be held accountable. Be sure what you say is correct, then have at it here. I will try to get their side of the story, or I bet the info age will clean up their acts quickly! - RT

[U Will Lose]

I'm baaaaack. Sorry for being gone so long, but I had some catching up to do on my studies after the holidays. HOGTIDE, I give you credit for at least trying to profile me. You missed on all counts except one, and that was probably accidental. I am a sophmore at U.W. you know #1 in the west. 52 years old hurt though, only missed by 32 on that one. I don't fish! You also seemed to amuse some pig farmer that responded. Tell him he forgot the ' in y'all as I am sure someone is reading this to him http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. Also, Steve good joke on the "metal boat" joke. I can't spell aluminum either http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif.Rags, chill man! http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif This board is just for entertainment and to trade opinions. Whoever said "we are not at war" my hats off to you. And also whoever said a lake is more fun is right, just not always as convienent. I am just giving my opinion on this subject, not forcing anyone to agree with me. Thanks for the responses everyone.
I'm out!

[This message has been edited by U Will Lose (edited 01-08-2001).]

[HOGTIDE]

Darnit...first the stockmarket, now my profile of U.W.L....I can't get anything right, lately.

And Rags, you better chill a bit, bubba ...get all the sleds off of the river??? And there are 100,000 longrod fishing purests that think the 'Clack' should be for flyfishing only. They think your lead and disgusting bait is an atrocity to the sport.

First they took away the sleds, and I said nothing, because I was not a sledder. Then they took away the driftboats, and I said nothing,because I was not a drifter. Next they came for the catarafts, but I didn't have a rubber ducky...now they're coming for me and... anyway you get the idea. I think my time periods and situational importance are a bit messed up, however.

[rags]

I did get a little testy. LOL. When you discuss the Clackamas and Sleds that hits a nerve. Let me compose myself. I fish the Clackamas from a driftboat more than any river and I am somewhat protective of it. Over the years I have seen Sled use increase where sometimes it looks like the San Diego freeway. Can this be good for the river? Gravel beds? Not only an increase in Sleds but big power boats. Honestly, I would like to see some kind of restrictions on the Clack for power. I think I am beating a dead horse on this one. If you fish the Clack from the bank or from a driftboat you know what I am talking about. We are very lucky to have such a beautiful river that produces outstanding Steelhead and Salmon runs so close to Portland. Let's keep it that way.

[Deleted User]

Rags, all user groups impact the rivers. And there are a lot more rivers for driftboaters and bankies to fish than sled boaters. I don't like the increased sled traffic/competition on the Clack either, but I recognize the realities. I may start a separate thread about river habitat protection from river users. It's easy for you to see that occassionally an unwitting sled operator gets his pump over shallow gravel when it could be avoided. You didn't mention that a like number of driftboaters dig their oars too deep into gravel as they row shallow spots, and the bankies wade right thru nice gravel spawning redds. The Clack is a good river for sled use. There aren't many around, and it would be as unfair to restrcit them in favor of driftboaters who have many more rivers to use as it would be to restrict driftboaters off several rivers in favor of bank fishers who have more rivers to use than boaters. - RT

[No Pilgram]

I don't think the sled drivers are any different than the drivers on the freeways. If you have the horsepower show it. I have been on the Clack when I thought there was a drag strip close by. ( it was, the river)Guides just flying by with no regard for anyone else but them and there clients. This speed can't be good for the river and the noise can't be good for the ears. I think they should limit the HP on sleds like they did in Alaska. If these guys want to drive fast (not much fishing going on) in these big sleds, get on the two big rivers close by!! The Guides don't own the river- there are more indivduals than guides if someone wants to push the issue!!!