WHERE ARE THE FISH? (includes post from Bob's board)

[Deleted User]

We all have been asking that Q about the north coast fish in Oregon. The same prob is occuring in NW Washington (I've heard there are a few exceptions in SW Wash., but nothing special though). Bob (Forks, WA guide and P.P. board moderator) says he thinks the WDFW should step in with some urgent stream closures soon (especially halt any legal take of nates). That's alarming to hear from a guide! ... Here is a similar viewpoint post from their board by RICH G ....

Well its not looking good. Ive been on the rivers four to five days a week this winter and havent had much to show for it. If not for the great summer run the whole year would have been a bust.

I guess I cant totally complain, Ive been getting about one hook up per day but Ive expected more. Ive been searching for the stream out in my neck of the woods that is consistent but havent found it, at this point I dont think Im going to find it.

I really feel sorry for the guys in the sound, If its this slow where I live I can only imagine how bad it is over there.

Well we can only hope the hatchery run is late but Im begining to believe the bulk of fish has already come in. Lets keep our fingers crossed. The other hat trick is the late winter run hopefully it will make up for the hatchery run bust.

One good thing ive seen is we seem to have a few more wild fish than normal for this time of year or maybe Ive just been lucky?

I hope WDFW steps in if things keep up the way they are. With possibly some emergency closures on wild fish retention for the coast. But probally like always they will be a day late and a buck short. ....
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So what are your opinions of why the winter run is down when the summer run was so good and the hatchery coho runs were huge around the region, with the upswing in the region's ocean feed ecosystem?!? ISG? ... I'm heading out the door in a few hours to drift on the Nestucca with Gary Till in the morning and I'm going to bring a garbage bag (for liter collection) and no rods. Well, I'll bring one rod and start to fish after I see one. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif - RT

[smilesforu]

There are actually a unusual number of natives for this time of year on the coast. It does seem the hatchery has been having problems getting there fish. The nets came in on the day of a rain but the rain wasn't hard enough for them to pull, so the fish got caught instead of getting past on a high water.
When the fish have been able to get past the nets on a high water there has been some outstanding fishing for those that were fishing as it dropped in shape. (double digit days)

It has been a unusually dry year for the coast which causes people's normal fishing areas to be fished out or highly pressured.

Bob typically calls for a stop to all killing of natives since this is his normal fishing practice. How about just shutting it down completely if really needs protecting. he is also planning on having the entire puget sound fishing squad come out west to fish because there local streams are shut down. (He is probably right on this one)

There has been a closure to protect the Makah hatchery fish because of a low return so far to date. I expect that to change when we get a real dose of rain.
Don't believe everything you read its been outstanding for some fishermen http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
Tight Lines

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Marty M
Steelheader.net (http://www.steelheader.net/)

[RichH]

I went over and fished yesterday and on my way I stopped in and spoke with Ron in Hebo and according to him they reran 400 fish on Thursday and expected to rerun another 200 or so on Friday. That would bring to total so far to around 1000. With that many fish in the river, why aren't they biting. My understanding is that it was a very slow day. In my past fishing experience I have found with a decent number of steelhead around you can generally make them bite something, even under crappy conditions. I guess my question is why won't they bite?

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Rich H

[newt]

I have a good friend who commercial fishes Bristol Bay for sockeye. We were shooting the breeze the other day, comparing the highs and lows of fish runs between here and Alaska. He made the comment that the high seas drift nets from Japan and Russia seemed to be on the upswing again in the bering sea and the eastern pacific. I commented that I was under the impression the coast guard had really buckled down on enforcement....especially in the early-mid 90's. He said the coast guard was limited in what they could actually do on the open seas and that indeed, it's a big ocean. He seemed convinced they are playing a part in our problems.

This is just a theory and isn't totally sound because you would think wild fish would be equally impacted(I refer to the good early showing on the WA coast).

I also wonder if the stocks being used are genetically burned out? That's also hard to swallow because many hatchery practices now have an emphasis on diversity at egg-taking time and are increasingly using in-basin stocks. Another take on this is that the hatcheries have created a breed of non-biters over time(why do you think they made it to the hatchery?)

Ultimately, I have to think that this low-water year is having some influence because it's region-wide and this is a region-wide problem. Still could make for a nice January with a good shot of rain.

Glad I started snow skiing again!

[SSPey]

I've had a wacky idea for a while, not saying that its happening right now, but its an appropriate time to fly it. We know that it is possible to favor certain physical or behavioral traits in steelhead and salmon runs, in an evolutionary sense, by selective hatchery practices. For example, when hatcheries used to select the biggest earliest returning steelhead to fill their hatcheries, that is what came back to the rivers in following years. Can fisherman remove "biters" from hatchery populations by keeping these fish for the table, instead of letting them make it to the hatchery to become part of the next generation? If only 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 steelhead is a biter, and that trait has a genetic component and it is removed from the population, are there fewer biters over time? Being a "biter" may be a behavioral trait with a genetic basis much like that of early returning fish .... hnmmm...

[SSPey]

sorry newt - I didn't notice at first that you mentioned this same idea in your post above

[David Johnson]

It doesn't seem to be as good fishing as it should be for the conditions we have been having but I'm not complaining, I've had some pretty good fishing (several limits for people on the boat).

I agree that there could be both a biting component of the run removed over the years but this is a streach. The biting fish are the more agressive ones. I also agree that the genetics could be getting burned out but for the past several years hatcheries have been taking care of that problem too.

Another theory is some of those "natives" you guys have been catching are hatchery fish that didn't get clipped, although you can usually tell if a steelhead is a hatchery by how streight it's fins are. This year I have caught one and a freind of mine has caught two or three fish that only had half of the addipose clipped.

I'm still going to hold out for some fish to come in late. My best week for hatchery fish last year was the last week of January.

[Deleted User]

Rich, aren't those fish re-cycled from the Three Rivers hatchery and thus just go back up there again, rather than going up the mainstem Nestucca? We fished 1st bridge to Farmers Creek for half a day there today and caught 2 nice steelhead. We must have been just lucky to get our stuff in front of a couple fish because every other boat complained of no bites. We did see a bank angler with one. I went by the Wilson/Sollie take out on the way home and heard the same SLOW complaints from guys taking out there. Can only hope for better things to come http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif - RT

[Hotshot]

Dont give up yet the peninsula dont get its bulk of its native run until the end of feb! As far as these early so called nates most of them are spoon feed hatchery fish!

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www.olympicpeninsulafishing.com (http://www.olympicpeninsulafishing.com)
check out Jim and Guys daily pics

[Steve]

Just wonder if some are not blaming not catching fish as an excuse for poor technique, bad water conditions, off timing. I've found that to be consistantly in the 10%ers you have to adjust locations and tech. Maybe the middle of the day is the time to go...hooked 10 between 11:30 and 3p.m. gives the water time to warm up...?

[Deleted User]

Geez Steve, thanks for the compliment to all us Ifishers. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif