Shere Joy of Fishing vs Competition (revisited)

[Deleted User]

We debated this subject of being overly competitive while salmon and steelhead fishing a long time ago. It has resurfaced bigtime on Bob's BB. There are some guys on there that have openly bragged up how many hundreds of fish they catch every year and that they catch them when nobody else does. They even went so far as to try to get an illegal betting pot going in a steelhead fishing contest. (This was debated out in the lower half of the "Kalama" thread for anyone interested). I'm going to copy my reply to the ringleader of that occurance here, and open up the debate about where the line is crossed into unreasonable competitiveness in salmon and steelhead recreational fishing in the Northwest; from boatracers to blantant braggers. What is your opinions? .....

Keith, I can try to teach you and some other fishermen something right here w/o having to take you out and show you some boating/fishing intracacies. I gave it a poorly worded shot up above (please pardon that - it was a mood thing) so I will try to lend some learned wisdom about fishing that will make you a better fishermen. It took me many years to learn this secret and I will share it with you now (at the risk of sounding condescending or hypocritical - but it is for effect of the point; not to brag). ....
The best fishermen on the river are the ones who truely get the maximun enjoyment from the experience. This can mean different things to different people. One of the common denominators is success at catching fish of course. Another is enjoying the beautiful outdoor scenery. Many enjoy the fun and company of good friends. Relaxing your way into fish is another. ... Now here's the big secret one that I learned in recent years that has pushed my enjoyment level way up; getting over the 'competitive, outfish the rest, prove myself' mentality on the river! ... You see, I was very much like you Keith at your age. Because I learned good uncrowded productive places for bankfishing, and because I was an eggcuring fanatic in addition to other tricks learned, I often caught and released more salmon and steelhead by myself than many guide's boatloads had on the same day. It is a tougher gig having to get doughballs into fish on crowded river sections as guides must do though. I can tell you that being on the river almost every day and being able to dial in on the several different intracacies of what's taking the fish any particular week is a real advantage; for both guides and hardcores like yourself. Like a lot of the rest of us Keith, for a number of reasons I can only fish typically a couple times a week now. That's not enough to really dial in as I used to; or you do now. I still have the occassional double figure days when the fish are in on the day I'm able to go and I make the right educated guesses of where the fish are and what will work best on them that day, but not nearly as often as I used to when I was 'dialed' in and fishing competitively hard almost every day. Yet I have a much better fishing knowledge base now! AND, I enjoy my time on the river so much more again. Remember how exhilerating it was to go fishing for steelhead the first couple of years, as you caught a few fish in the learning process. Well, with the right attitude and proper appreciation of what you are getting to do out there, fishing can become exhilerating again. And a whole lot more relaxing and satisfying by just fishing for the shere joy of it and not even thinking about 'kicking everyones @$$' or focusing on getting the biggest numbers you can to tell the world about. It took a lot of time and soul searching for me to earn this mindset and shere enjoyment back again. I wouldn't trade it for any amount of big numbers to brag up or tournament trophy's on my desk to show off. The best fishermen find this realm. I hope you do too someday. - RT ....

Maybe I came down a little hard on this guy and his crew. Hopefully it was the right wisdom I gave them? Or was it a little AR on my part? Should we just scramble out there on the rivers and brag it up when we hit the right circumstances, or not?

[superfly]

I recently had the pleasure to take R.T. fishing, and even though the catching was terrible, we had a great time talking **** about everything under the sun, but mostly about girls, anyways I was one of those guys who always bragged about how many fish I caught and how I smoked everyone on the river that particular day. Did it get me any where, No , maybe R.T's doghouse. Anyway in a constructive manner he and several other people told me that I should be more constructive to people and the industry and basically shut up and say yes I did good or no I sucked today. WHen I was growing up and playing sports the coaches always liked me because of my attitude and that I was "coachable" well this is no different. So I took there advice and have been doing my best to be a good sportsman and humble, and you know what I am allot better person for it today. All I have to say is Thanks to R.T and the others that put this youngster in his place.
Peace Superfly

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If you want to run with the big dawgs then get your ass off of the porch!!

[Crusty]

Not!

Crusty (Who has been known to hit the bushes for some frolicking with my wife during the peak of a salmon fly hatch on the Deschutes.)

[SureSet]

I think your response was fine, RT. My explanation when it comes to people who are obviously tring to prove themselves is to remember that there are sportsman's phases.

I was told that there are 4 phases each sportsman goes through as they mature. As I recall it goes something like, 1)The Thrill of the first, 2)The striving to become proficent, 3)The proving you know it all, and finally, 4)The maturity of enjoying what you know (and sharing it with others if that's what you want). It goes for hunting, fishing or just about any sport. Obviously, as we go through those stages, we look differently toward the people in the other phases. The key to me is understanding that these people will mature someday. They will get board with killing 5 limits of ducks in a day and filling their's and their wife's harvest tag every year. Maybe it will be an interaction with a kid, or some other event that will make the Sportsman out of the sportsman. A few words from those in the later stage won't hurt either..

My .02 worth

Sureset

[smilesforu]

Well put sureset. RT I am not above throwing a line for competition as long as the rules are set ahead of time. Otherwise fishing is for fun and enjoyment.

My friend came from Eastern Washington this weekend and left skunked. He jokingly stated he was here for the beautiful scenery. It is nice to be able to choose between scenery and fish. Sometimes you can have both by keeping a competitive edge. Do fish taste different if you didn't catch them? http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
Tight Lines

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Marty M
Steelheader.net (http://www.steelheader.net/)

[4u2fish]

RT has it right, you should not BRAG about your ability to outfish others. Instead you should show the ones who are haveing dificulty catching; what you are doing to get the fish. This would allow some others who may not have the time to put in on the river and get (dialed) the opportunity to learn and become better fisher persons.

Don't get me wrong here I have been known to give my buddies some FRIENDLY grief over there inability to catch the fish in the same hole with the same bait. But the key is that it is presented and taken in good fun. It is not a tool to make yourself feel better than anyone else and most of all should NEVER be used to hummiliate another individual.


My point is that friendly hazzing and a good time can be shared by all involved. You just have to be prepaired when it is your turn (and it will come) http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


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AKC H2O-K9

[Crusty]

R.T.,

It would appear that the folks on this board gets it big time.

Glad you brought it up.

Crusty

[Trick]

All of us on this board enjoy fishing and that is our one common thread that unites us. We all bring forth different skill levels fishing and like anything we do some are more naturally gifted at it then others. Before I assumed the duties of adult and that includes being a husband, father and employee I had the time to become good at fishing. Being a kid provided the free time to become as close to "dialed" as I may ever get. I had the 100 salmon/steelhead years.

In high school I remember the signed bets we made on who could catch the most winter steelhead. The bragging we would do after each weekend. Of course I never won the bets. What I want to know is who has the time to stay dialed outside of being a "guide" or a "retiree"? I only get a fraction of the time I used to get fishing and my catch record reflects it. There have been seasons were I have only gotten out once or twice and haven't caught fish. This year I've been out three times and have only hooked two fish and landed one, not counting the 11" native cutt that swallowed my eggs and got my heart beating for a second yesterday morning http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

The best part of fishing for me now is not as much about the catching as it used to be. I enjoy being out on the rare occasions with my childhhod fising buddies. We all have kids, jobs and wives and when we can all get together now it is very special to me. They all have lost their "touches" as well. My boys are getting old enough now to really enjoy fishing and I feel like the luckiest man to be able to teach them my "love of the sport". They are learning that fishing is more about being outdoors and intouch then always catching fish. I agree with Sureset that it is part of a natural progression for most of us and I know I went through the bragging stage even though I was still a teenager. I'm worried that some of these braggers might be older than that?

I don't catch the fish I used to and I know now that it is the simple act of being out there that excites me, it sure aint' the act of catching because I have many fishless days. I enjoy the time it allows me with family and freinds like you. It saddens me to think that people would have reasons so shallow to keep them in the game.


It just goes to prove once again that the people who frequent this board are the cream of the crop.

[Hohwaiian]

First off, I'd like to answer Marty's question. Yes, they do taste better if you catch them yourself. They're much, much sweeter...

RT your disclaimer notwithstanding, I'm apperceiving the same condescending attitude manifesting here that tainted the "Kalama" post on Bob's board. This is true because for me it's difficult to discern between claiming numbers and claiming to be the sager angler. Essentially, in both instances, one is bragging. What more is a fishing book other than a record showing off what an author knows? I COULD argue that the sagest anglers, those that rollick in the highest caste of the sportmens' hierarchy, all have fishing books and journals. Yet, these will never be published during their lifetimes...

Sorry for the diatribe, but I just got home and I'm pretty FUBR'd. Ha, ha, I just thought I'd stir the pot the other way. I should probably just stay up and get in a morning bite, but gotta watch some bowl games. Go Huskies and Beavers...

Peace Out...

[HOGTIDE]

I think its important to give some leeway and tolerance for the arrogance and competiveness of youth, especially young males. Its actually their drive to outdo everyone else that helps them to become accomplished in sportfishing. Its tough to tell a 20 year old kid to just relax and enjoy the sound of the tide running as he sees the boat next door smacking bright kings, or chrome steelies popping leaders on the jump. Who cares how pretty the Cedars and Ferns are along the Nehalem. Lets get down there in the dark and tie up the spot! Let's pretie 3 dozen of the rigs that worked yesterday so not a second is lost.

However, if you've caught fish and I know most of you ol boys 'have' caught fish. Relax, enjoy the day. There are few things more abrasive than a 'man' that childishly crowds himself or his boat into an anticipated hotspot. Besides the fish 'know' your attitude.

Perhaps the greatest joy my partner and I have these days is laughing at how bad we have done. Our constant refrain is "WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOUR BOAT? WHAT'S WRONG WITH MY LURE?...we always blame each other for skunks. It's fun!

[Deleted User]

Howdy Ho. Glad to see you pop in to our BB. You gotta remember my very first post on Bob's board in which I tried to make a little humorous fun of the unique names of the rivers on the Oly Pen. Bob and the others new what I was trying to do and appreciated it. You took strong exception to it, by taking it the wrong way; but you posted a rightful opinion. I guess kinda like me your thought basis was to keep the board purer. I new my post above was unavoidably condescending ... that's why I wrote "at the risk of sounding condescending and hypocritical ..." that I would take exception to poluting fishing sites with such brag fests; knowing it might ruffle a few feathers as political opinions always do. Along with others I saw the 'taint' in "Kalama" as being what the boys (mid-twenties) were doing in there. As confuscious once said, 'ain't the taint in the eye of the beholder'? So thanks for your viewpoint Ho, and one of my New Year's resolutions will be to stop with such strong opinions and affronts to some individuals. ... ah ... naaah, that sounds kinda boring. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Edit: http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif I just read Hogtide's take and re-read Sureset's take and their's have some wisdom that mine lacked; that it's normal and OK (within reason anyway) to go thru the stage 3 personna. Therefore, ya, I think I came down a little too hard on those guys. ... But they deserved it http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Know Spam and No Spam



[This message has been edited by RT (edited 01-01-2001).]

[Fish4Fun]

RT,

We used to be exactly like you described, we always wanted to catch the most, biggest or what ever. But as we got older the fun of being out with friends and family was more fun. Sure I still get that warm feeling when I pull my sled in and we have more fish than others, that is just human nature though. As for being competive, I left that world when I got out of Drag Racing. The biggest enjoyment that I get now is to take people out and get them there first Sturgeon or Salmon. I don't know if my smile is bigger than thiers or not. Especialy if it is a young kid, I have no children so it really makes my day to introduce a young angler to the fun of the outdoors. I always try to make the day fun for newbies and take the competive edge away from the task at hand which is to have fun and enjoy the outing. This is a state that is earned I think from the years of just wanting to kick butt all the time.


Fish4Fun

[Kwiky]

I usually avoid these threads like the plague, but wanted to throw my viewpoint out on this one. I am young, and seem to be lucky enough to catch alot of fish. I have a few buddies that are the same. For myself and a portion of them, it has never been about who has caught the most. It has always been more of a competition between each individual and the fish, if that makes sense. No real bragging, just admiration for the guys that "figured 'em out" that day, and admiration for the fish when we didn't dial in.

The propensity for bragging is a character trait that transends fishing and one that I never found much admiration in, which is why I just avoid fishing with that type of person.

Kwiky